Is your faith your own? - Is "the Faith" prescribed by a human institution?

[St. SteVen]

Definite Article-he pistis!

Are you claiming that the Canaanite woman was of THE Faith?

Matthew 15:24 NIV
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

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[Johann]

Yes, I agree that they were around before Adam and Eve.

The Book of Jubilees tells us: "For on the first day He created the heavens which are above and the earth and the waters and all the spirits which serve before him -the malakim of the presence, and the malakim of sanctification, and the malakim [of the spirit of fire and the malakim] of the spirit of the winds, and the malakim of the spirit of the clouds, and of darkness, and of snow and of hail and of hoar frost, and the malakim of the voices and of the thunder and of the lightning, and the malakim of the spirits of cold and of heat, and of winter and of spring and of autumn and of summer and of all the spirits of his creatures which are in the heavens and on the earth, (He created) the abysses and the darkness, eventide (and night), and the light, dawn and day, which He has prepared in the knowledge of His heart."

Does that answer your question sufficiently?

I don't know what you mean by "Gotcha."

So now we know the origin of Ra-correct?
You have a Logos software?

 

[RedFan]

So now we know the origin of Ra-correct?
You have a Logos software?

Are you talking about the origin of the Egyptian sun god?

I have the free version of the Logos app.

 

[Johann]

Are you claiming that the Canaanite woman was of THE Faith?

[

Her faith was IN the Messiah-not those who followed Him for the loaves and fish.
And I don't understand that you see where I'm going with this-maybe a dictionary on Basic Hebrew and Greek Grammar would suffice.

And just in case you forgot-

There are several scriptures in the New Testament that suggest faith is a gift from God. Here are some key passages:

1. Ephesians 2:8-9
Scripture: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Explanation: This passage clearly indicates that faith, like grace, is a gift from God, not something that originates from human effort or merit.

2. Philippians 1:29
Scripture: "For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake."
Explanation: This verse highlights that the ability to believe in Christ (i.e., faith) is something that has been "granted" or given by God.

3. 2 Peter 1:1
Scripture: "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ."
Explanation: Peter addresses believers as those who have "received" faith, again pointing to faith as something given to them, not something they produced on their own.

4. Romans 12:3
Scripture: "For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith."
Explanation: This verse speaks of God allotting "a measure of faith" to each believer, which supports the idea that faith is distributed by God according to His will.

5. 1 Corinthians 12:9
Scripture: "To another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit."
Explanation: In the context of spiritual gifts, faith is listed as one of the gifts given by the Holy Spirit, further supporting the concept of faith being a divine gift.

These verses collectively support the theological understanding that faith is not merely a human choice or action but is fundamentally a gift from God.

Thanks
J.

 

[Johann]

Are you talking about the origin of the Egyptian sun god?

I have the free version of the Logos app.

Gen_6:5 And Hashem saw that the wickedness of HaAdam was great in ha'aretz and that every yetzer (inclination) of the machshevot (thoughts) of his lev was only rah (evil) continually.

The origin of evil? Or prior? Since you and I have both come to agreement re the Bnei Elohim and kokhvei boker.

The Faithlife Study Bible is an excellent source on the free app.

 

[RedFan]

Gen_6:5 And Hashem saw that the wickedness of HaAdam was great in ha'aretz and that every yetzer (inclination) of the machshevot (thoughts) of his lev was only rah (evil) continually.

The origin of evil? Or prior? Since you and I have both come to agreement re the Bnei Elohim and kokhvei boker.

The Faithlife Study Bible is an excellent source on the free app.

I'm not understanding your question, J. Are you asking about the first Biblical instance of recorded "evil" (on any definition of "evil")?

 

[Johann]

I'm not understanding your question, J. Are you asking about the first Biblical instance of recorded "evil" (on any definition of "evil")?

No-the origin of evil-

Isaiah 14:12-15 - This passage speaks of the fall of the "morning star" (often identified with Lucifer) who sought to exalt himself above God. It is a poetic description of pride and the consequent fall.

Ezekiel 28:12-17 - This passage describes a "guardian cherub" who was once perfect but became prideful and was cast down because of his iniquity. While traditionally understood as referring to the King of Tyre, many Christian interpretations see it as also symbolizing Lucifer.

Revelation 12:7-9 - This passage describes a war in heaven in which Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (identified as Satan) and his angels, resulting in their expulsion from heaven to the earth.

In these texts, the focus is on a singular act of rebellion rather than multiple instances of lifting up one's will. Theologically, Lucifer's fall is seen as the result of a profound and decisive act of rebellion against God's authority, which is described as a foundational event in Christian eschatology.

Would you say it began from there-or with Adam and Eve?

 

[RedFan]

No-the origin of evil-

Isaiah 14:12-15 - This passage speaks of the fall of the "morning star" (often identified with Lucifer) who sought to exalt himself above God. It is a poetic description of pride and the consequent fall.

Ezekiel 28:12-17 - This passage describes a "guardian cherub" who was once perfect but became prideful and was cast down because of his iniquity. While traditionally understood as referring to the King of Tyre, many Christian interpretations see it as also symbolizing Lucifer.

Revelation 12:7-9 - This passage describes a war in heaven in which Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (identified as Satan) and his angels, resulting in their expulsion from heaven to the earth.

In these texts, the focus is on a singular act of rebellion rather than multiple instances of lifting up one's will. Theologically, Lucifer's fall is seen as the result of a profound and decisive act of rebellion against God's authority, which is described as a foundational event in Christian eschatology.

Would you say it began from there-or with Adam and Eve?

I'd say it began with Lucifer's fall. But I don't know.

 

[Johann]

I'd say it began with Lucifer's fall. But I don't know.

Goodnight @RedFan 03:28 AM [morning] here in South Africa.
J.

 

[Beebster]

God creates evil:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isa 45:7)

God created Satan and not as a beautiful angel who fell as taught through false doctrine but as a sinner and a murderer from the beginning:

By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent. (Job 26:13)

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't hold to Reformed Theology-used to, but no longer and as to OSAS I believe what stands written, and don't agree with the Early Church Fathers.

Maybe I should be Catholic?
Sono calmo.

Not to change the topic, but it's so nice to hear when someone leaves reformed theology to come to believe in the loving, merciful and just God of the bible.

As to OSAS, it can be shown from scripture alone that it cannot be correct.
The ECFs also did not teach this and they learned from the Apostles (as you know).
What disturbs me about some beliefs is that they were not in the church until the reformation.
I just think we need to ask ourselves why.

 

[GodsGrace]

But the verses don't say what you want them to say. That is the problem with so much of what is wrong within Christendom.

But it's not JUST the verses.
If I remember it was about Romans 8 and nature being affected by the sin nature.
This is common in Christian belief.
I don't make up my own theology,,,,I learn it.
You're allowed to make up your own reasons as to why there are hurricanes.

 

[GodsGrace]

God creates evil:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isa 45:7)

God created Satan and not as a beautiful angel who fell as taught through false doctrine but as a sinner and a murderer from the beginning:

By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent. (Job 26:13)

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)

I see you also got some likes.

Well, if you're right, then we DON'T KNOW GOD,,,,because IF God created evil,
then He is not properly represented in the bible
and
We should be very fearful of such a God.

Could you imagine getting a new puppy that you say you love,
and you also claim to be a merciful person and a just person,
and you put your puppy in the shed behind your house,
which is full of mice and snakes and leaving him there.
Which is the equivalent of God creating evil.

You must be reformed of course.

GOD IS LOVE:

1 John 4:8
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world,,,


GOD IS MERCIFUL

Lamentations 3:22
22The LORD’S loving kindnesses indeed never cease,
For His compassions never fail.

Titus 3:5
“He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy


GOD IS JUST

Isaiah 30:18
“Therefore the Lord waits to be gracious to you; therefore he will rise up to show mercy to you. For the Lord is a God of justice;

Deuteronomy 32:4
4“The Rock! His work is perfect,
For all His ways are just;
A God of faithfulness and without injustice,
Righteous and upright is He.


The above DOES NOT sound like a God that would create evil so that it should befall His creation.
He would not put us in a shed with mice and snakes....

 

[GodsGrace]

Here's what I am looking at. It is used as a study guide, not for reading. Notice the differences between this and the English translation, that took some unfortunate liberties. It doesn't say THE Faith in the original language. (no definite article = the)

View attachment 49400

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I don't think using a lexicon on a normal basis is a very good idea.
Language is much more complex than translating in a lexicon type of way.

Here's a way your could use that shows some trust for the expert translators of the bible.
Jude 1:3 Interlinear

As you can see, all the translations use THE FAITH,,,or to put it your way THE faith. (as opposed to the faith).
I fail to understand why this is so important to you....

New International Version
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.

New Living Translation
Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to his holy people.

English Standard Version
Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

Berean Standard Bible
Beloved, although I made every effort to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt it necessary to write and urge you to contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once for all to the saints.

Berean Literal Bible
Beloved, using all diligence to write to you concerning our common salvation, I had necessity to write to you, exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith having been delivered once for all to the saints.

King James Bible
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

New King James Version
Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

New American Standard Bible
Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all time handed down to the saints.

NASB 1995
Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

NASB 1977
Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

Legacy Standard Bible
Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you exhorting that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

Amplified Bible
Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I was compelled to write to you [urgently] appealing that you fight strenuously for [the defense of] the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints [the faith that is the sum of Christian belief that was given verbally to believers].

Christian Standard Bible
Dear friends, although I was eager to write you about the salvation we share, I found it necessary to write, appealing to you to contend for the faith that was delivered to the saints once for all.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Dear friends, although I was eager to write you about the salvation we share, I found it necessary to write and exhort you to contend for the faith that was delivered to the saints once for all.

American Standard Version
Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write to you about our common life, it was necessary for me to write to you, as I am to persuade you to compete for the faith, which was once delivered to The Holy Ones.

Contemporary English Version
My dear friends, I really wanted to write you about God's saving power at work in our lives. But instead, I must write and ask you to defend the faith that God has once for all given to his people.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Dearly beloved, taking all care to write unto you concerning your common salvation, I was under a necessity to write unto you: to beseech you to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints.

English Revised Version
Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Dear friends, I had intended to write to you about the salvation we share. But something has come up. It demands that I write to you and encourage you to continue your fight for the Christian faith that was entrusted to God's holy people once for all time.

Good News Translation
My dear friends, I was doing my best to write to you about the salvation we share in common, when I felt the need of writing at once to encourage you to fight on for the faith which once and for all God has given to his people.

International Standard Version
Dear friends, although I was eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I found it necessary to write to you and urge you to continue your vigorous defense of the faith that was passed down to the saints once and for all.

Literal Standard Version
Beloved, using all diligence to write to you concerning our common salvation, I had necessity to write to you, exhorting [you] to fight for the faith once delivered to the holy ones,

Majority Standard Bible
Beloved, although I made every effort to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt it necessary to write and urge you to contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once for all to the saints.

New American Bible
Beloved, although I was making every effort to write to you about our common salvation, I now feel a need to write to encourage you to contend for the faith that was once for all handed down to the holy ones.

NET Bible
Dear friends, although I have been eager to write to you about our common salvation, I now feel compelled instead to write to encourage you to contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.

New Revised Standard Version
Beloved, while eagerly preparing to write to you about the salvation we share, I find it necessary to write and appeal to you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.

New Heart English Bible
Beloved, while I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I was constrained to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

Webster's Bible Translation
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write to you concerning the common salvation, it was needful for me to write to you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith, which was once delivered to the saints.

Young's Literal Translation
Beloved, all diligence using to write to you concerning the common salvation, I had necessity to write to you, exhorting to agonize for the faith once delivered to the saints,

 

[GodsGrace]

St. SteVen said:
Discussion questions;
1) Is the basis for your salvation a personal decision to follow God, or to follow the church?
2) If your salvation is in "the Faith", who prescribed what that means?

Sure.
Faith = Belief that manifests in a personal decision to follow God.
The Faith = A system of belief related to Christianity.

We are saved by grace through faith, not THE Faith.

[

We Christians are also saved by THE faith.

THE faith is only referring to the faith that was taught to us via the Apostles and writers of the NT....
what other faith could we be saved by?

Our faith must be personal.
It must be faith.....

But we believe in THE faith that was left to us.

Like I said, I don't really understand what you're getting at.

If we want to get right down to brass tacks....
then we say that we are saved by faith....
Hebrews 11:6
6And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

The important fact here is that to be saved we need very little:
FAITH
OBEDIENCE

Faith in God and obedience to God will save anyone.

THE faith is just describing WHICH faith we believe in since there is more than one theologically speaking.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

Evil can only come from moral corruption and where there are no circumstances for evil, evil cannot be present. It's as though you believe evil is a force which has an origin but the evidence is clear that evil can only exist if flesh nature which is made in the image and likeness of God is present. For example; the beasts of the field cannot produce evil because they are amoral.

I think you need to define evil for me and why you think it has a source?

F2F

F2F, many think as you do.
They don't believe evil really exists but is the absence of good.

I don't think you need a definition of evil.
As to the source....satan is the source.

You want to know why I THINK there's a source?

Because I'm Christian and Christian theology/soteriology teaches that satan exists.
There are some sources in the OT that theologians believe are the story of how an angel named Lucifer fell.
I don't see the need to get into this.
If someone is Christian, they should believe what THE faith is teaching them.
Jesus spoke about satan.
The teaching has been passed on to us.

You're free not to believe it.
It would be nice, however, if you explained why there are hurricanes.

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't think using a lexicon on a normal basis is a very good idea.
Language is much more complex than translating in a lexicon type of way.

Tell that to @Johann - LOL

Here's a way your could use that shows some trust for the expert translators of the bible.
Jude 1:3 Interlinear

Thanks. Experts? (who never get it wrong?)

As you can see, all the translations use THE FAITH,,,or to put it your way THE faith. (as opposed to the faith).
I fail to understand why this is so important to you....

It changes the meaning of the verse. Anyway, it's the topic question. Currently at page 11 of discussion. Many seem willing to discuss it. Even though you seem to prefer that we don't.

King James Bible
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

This is why ALL the other translation use "the faith". None of them wants to divert from the KJV. imho

[

 

[St. SteVen]

We Christians are also saved by THE faith.

Let's see what your translation "experts" say about Ephesians 2:8-9

Ephesians 2:8-9NIV
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—
and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Let's see what your translation "experts" say about Ephesians 2:8-9

Ephesians 2:8-9NIV
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—
and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

[

Or these.

Luke 7:50
Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Romans 10:10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Hebrews 10:39
But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

[

 

[Johann]

Tell that to @Johann - LOL

Haven't even started using any lexicons @St. SteVen -just using the Grammar and Morphology of the Hebrew and Greek and context.