But shun profane and vain babblings

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where does it say there is more than One Specific Group that signifies "firstfruits"............lol

What is the deal with your scoffing attitude? Can you please address what I said in my post? Did you even read it? I don't even know what you mean by "more than one specific group that signifies firstfruits". What does that even mean? Why are you asking me that question when I didn't say anything like that? It says Christ Himself is the firstfruits in 1 Corinthians 15:20. Are you denying this? He is the firstfruits of them that slept.

 

[David in NJ]

What is the deal with your scoffing attitude? Can you please address what I said in my post? Did you even read it? I don't even know what you mean by "more than one specific group that signifies firstfruits". What does that even mean? Why are you asking me that question when I didn't say anything like that? It says Christ Himself is the firstfruits in 1 Corinthians 15:20. Are you denying this? He is the firstfruits of them that slept.

Since Christ the firstfruits, what does that make "those who are Christ's"???

CLUE: firstfruits is PLURAL

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That is because of the Amil doctrine you follow.

Goodness sakes. I was trying to have a civil discussion with you and you obviously don't want any part of that. Pathetic.

Satan was cast down from heaven to the earth at the cross per Jesus own words.
John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Yes, exactly! That is what Amil teaches as well. We relate that to his binding as well. You clearly still don't even understand what we believe. Do you make it a habit of dismissing things that you don't even understand?

For those who believe it accomplished salvation, forgiveness of past sins and being made free from the bondage of sin. But for the unbelieving world it brought forth the start of the judgment as shown above with the coming of Satan. Jesus said when he left the world that darkness would follow, that darkness will remain until Christ returns.

We who are born again of the Spirit are delivered from the power of sin and death. But the power of sin and death is still reigning in the unbelieving world. Satan, Death and the inhabitants of hell are not destroyed until the second death.

Was anyone in OT times delivered from the power of sin and death? Did Satan not have the power of death until the death of Christ took it away as Hebrews 2:14-15 says?

Was Paul wrong in Ephesians 2:11-13 when he said the Gentiles formerly had "no hope" and were "without God in the world" but then that changed because of the blood of Jesus which brought them near? Did the preaching of the gospel of Christ throughout the world only have little impact in the past almost 2,000 years in your mind? Did it not change what Satan was formerly able to do when he had the power of death and when the vast majority of the world had "no hope" and were "without God in the world"?

I’m glad to hear that you seek wisdom from God because most carnal Christian’s are seeking wisdom from the wrong source, which is carnally minded men.

But, you want to lump me in with them despite not knowing me at all. God is not pleased with your judgmental attitude, I promise you that.

True but it is written
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

There's no True...but. We are saved by grace through faith and not by works. That is true, period. You seem to want to minimize that, but we should never minimize God's grace. It is the lack of the knowledge of God's grace and that we saved through faith and not by works that destroys a lot of people who think they can be saved by their own wisdom and supposed righteousness and works. They lack the knowledge that God wants us to be humble and submitted to Him and to rely on Him and His grace and not to rely on ourselves. He wants our loyalty and trust and not to rely on our own supposed wisdom or righteousness, which is as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Since Christ the firstfruits, what does that make "those who are Christ's"???

CLUE: firstfruits is PLURAL

Don't get thrown off by that. It should be firstfruit instead of firstfruits. The Greek word can mean either firstfruit or firstfruits and then there's nothing in the Greek which demands that it has to be plural. That's why there are a few translations that translate it as firstfruit instead of firstfruits. I assume the reason the KJV and other translations have it translated as "firstfruits" is because the firstfruits were the first of the season's crops that believing Jews would offer to God. So, it's relating that to Jesus being the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality. Regardless, it clearly says that Jesus Himself is the firstfruits or firstfruit. That is undeniable if you are actually objective about it. It doesn't say them that slept are the firstfruits with Christ, it says Christ is the firstfruits...of them that slept.

You are trying to say those who are Christ's are included in the firstfruits, but you are missing that Paul differentiated between "Christ the firstfruits" and "they that are Christ's at his coming".

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

This does not say Christ and they that are Christ's the firstfruits as you imagine. Paul gives the order. Christ the firstfruits is first. That's Christ Himself. Then next in order (AFTERWARD) are "they that are Christ's at his coming". Nowhere does it call them the firstfruits.

 

[Zao is life]

I’ve seen you make this claim several times and I don’t think it’s accurate.

Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (zao).

Jesus is quoting Exodus 3:6 which means this verse is referring to the physically dead Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and calling them “the living” or zao at the time the LORD appeared to Moses at the burning bush. Do you think God was not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob after they died and before they are physically resurrected?

31 But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying,
32 "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

What has "the resurrection of the dead" got to do with what Jesus was saying about people being found alive in the body (zao), in your opinion?

 

[Zao is life]

Exactly. But, he apparently does not believe that people are conscious after they physically die, so that would be why he denies that anyone can be alive (zao) without being physically/bodily alive.

There you go again, still lying about what I believe - even though I said nothing that could give you that impression.

Here's a hint: When you quoted scriptures that show souls as being conscious after death - i.e Jesus' parable of Lazarus and the rich man, and what Revelation says about the souls under the altar, did I argue against it?

Why did I not even comment about those scriptures? It's because what you were saying was implying that I was saying something I was not saying - see #92 again. What does what I said here have to do with "soul sleep"?

I said, "The human spirit that dies in Christ will go to be with Christ when the body of the person dies - but because spirit is spirit, it will have no limbs because its limbs will be in the grave until the resurrection of the body when it is raised a spiritual incorruptible body that cannot decay."

My mistake. I should have said "The human spirit (of the person) that dies in Christ when the body of the person dies",

but the fact that I said when the body dies and "the human spirit goes to be with Christ" should show that I did not mean that the human spirit dies, and that I was talking about the person who dies in Christ when the body dies.

The above is in itself making a distinction between body and soul or spirit, which you afterwards falsely accused me of not making distinction between.

I said, "Mankind was created to live on God's created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die and live forever in heaven". Death is the enemy of God."

What does what I said here have to do with "soul sleep"?

Who are you to demand an answer from me when I've made it clear when you have accused me of this before this thread that I do not believe that there will be no conscious awareness of the soul or the spirit who has died?

Who are you to repeatedly make false statements about what I believe and then still expect an answer from me just because you demand it?

I simply said that the Bible does not tell us any more, which is a fact. You have shown yourself up once again for the kind of thing you will do when you think the person you are deliberately lying about regarding what he believes, won't see.

@rwb @grafted branch

 

[Zao is life]

No, more about you.

I have attempted not to respond to your repeated personal attacking (ad hominem), and this argument was between myself and the person you have chosen to be the side-kick of.

Your post above says more about you than about me. Yourself and your buddy @Spiritual Israelite here expect people to take what you say about scripture seriously but you give no reason for anyone to do so.

 

[Zao is life]

Look in the mirror.

I don't want to. Last time I looked in the mirror I looked just like you because I had resorted to your style. Ugh!

Except that I'm unable to be shrewd like you are able to be and often are.

 

[Zao is life]

If they purposely misrepresent the words of God, why would you think they would have a problem misrepresenting others as well?

Very snake like if you ask me.

I don't think they are purposefully misrepresenting the Word of God but they are blinded by human theology masquearding as biblical Christian theology - and that human theology of theirs has a lot in the Word of God completely confused. And @Spiritual Israelite has continued to deliberately misrepresent to others what I believe regarding "soul sleep" even after I thought he had stopped and he thought I had left, despite the fact that I corrected him - because I did not respond to his demand to answer questions which the answers to were implied by what I had already said.

He has a major problem with puffed-up human pride, IMO. I glean that from his insults, false accusations, deliberately lying about people and generally very shrewd style of "debate".

And then his side-kicks @rwb and others help him and attempt to get me to their added ad hominem by responding likewise to theirs.

They all show such humility and maturity (roll eyes)

 

[Zao is life]

I know myself far better than you do.

Therefore I wouldn't want to be you when you look at yourself in the mirror. You may not be deliberately misrepresenting scripture, but you sure know how to resort to insults, slurs, ad-hominems, and falsely stating what others believe, which you apparently have all stored up, labelled, and ready to use in a very shrewd and ungodly way the moment you choose one of the many in your storehouse.

 

[Zao is life]

More avoidance and more projection. Sums up your efforts here.

The above sums up YOUR efforts here. Untrue statements about "avoidance" and "projection" mixed into a post that is nothing less than a purely ad hominem attack.

Definitely sums up your efforts here.

 

[WPM]

Therefore I wouldn't want to be you when you look at yourself in the mirror. You may not be deliberately misrepresenting scripture, but you sure know how to resort to insults, slurs, ad-hominems, and falsely stating what others believe, which you apparently have all stored up, labelled, and ready to use in a very shrewd and ungodly way the moment you choose one of the many in your storehouse.

More projection. You describe yourself.

 

[Zao is life]

More projection. You describe yourself.

It's describing you too. You've made that much obvious by your repeated attacks when ...

Oh wait a minute. I get it now. @Spiritual Israelite is you - it's your other account here. That's why you keep responding to what is said to @Spiritual Israelite

And there I was thinking you were trying to start a new argument. My bad.

 

[Zao is life]

Goodness sakes. I was trying to have a civil discussion with you

Could have fooled me.

 

[Zao is life]

More often than not the insults start from Premils.

So now you're claiming to be a Premil. More often when someone is talking about scripture and engaging with you but disagreeing, the insults start with you. And you don't stop with the insults and slurs, either.

You're very confused, it seems.

 

[WPM]

It's describing you too. You've made that much obvious by your repeated attacks when ...

Oh wait a minute. I get it now. @Spiritual Israelite is you - it's your other account here. That's why you keep responding to what is said to @Spiritual Israelite

And there I was thinking you were trying to start a new argument. My bad.

You are full of such pettiness and nonsense. Your are a reflection of your beliefs.

I am not wasting my time on you. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Zao is life]

Exactly. Look what happens any time we question them about when it is that it becomes the case that the second death has no power over us. Revelation 20:6 strongly implies that one MUST have part in the first resurrection in order for the second death to not have any power over him or her. The second death doesn't have any power now over the souls of the dead in Christ that John saw in heaven. They are already assured to bodily inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God in the new heavens and new earth rather than being cast into the lake of fire. One does not need to be bodily resurrected in order for the second death to not have power over them. Premils never want to address this.

And which group of people is Revelation 20:6 talking about exactly? Only about the group who were beheaded for refusal to worship the beast, whom John saw alive in their bodies (zao).

- and that is what zao means in scripture, despite your and others' denials. The verses using the word zao are always either talking about the living God, or about those who are alive in their bodies (i.e have not died, physically).

 

[Zao is life]

You are full of such pettiness and nonsense. Your are a reflection of your beliefs.

I am not wasting my time on you. Thanks for the discussion.

Thank goodness because the first line applies to yourself (as each of your posts to me has VERY clearly proved), and the last line applies to my time and to you.

 

[WPM]

Thank goodness because the first line applies to yourself (as each of your posts to me has VERY clearly proved), and the last line applies to my time and to you.

Does your mum no your are online?

 

[Zao is life]

@Stewardofthemystery

@David in NJ

Here's what the scripture teaches us about immortality, which Amillennialism has corrupted:

EVERLASTING LIFE OWNED

-- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.

In him was life [zōḗ], and the life was the light of mankind." -- John 1:1-4

-- "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" -- John 5:26

Jesus is the only human to have (everlasting) life in Himself.

EVERLASTING LIFE GIVEN

-- "And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life." -- 1 John 5:11-12.

RIGHTEOUSNESS OWNED

-- "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous One. -- 1 John 2:1

RIGHTEOUSNESS GIVEN

-- "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death. -- Philippians 3:9-10

RESURRECTION OWNED

-- "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:" -- John 11:25

-- "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." -- John 14:6

RESURRECTION GIVEN

-- "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming." -- 1 Corinthians 15:20-23

IMMORTALITY OWNED

-- "He (Christ) alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen." -- 1 Timothy 6:15-16

IMMORTALITY GIVEN

-- "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." -- 1 Corinthians 15:52-54.

CORRUPTION / DECAY

-- "The creation itself shall also be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." -- Romans 8:21.

The difference between immortality and eternal life owned and immortality and eternal life given in Christ, who alone possesses eternal life and immortality in Himself, is as vast as the difference between the CREATOR (God) who alone possesses eternal life in Himself, and the creaTED.

-- But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. -- Genesis 2:17

-- And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die -- Genesis 3:4.

-- If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. -- John 15:6

THE FIRST THREE AND THE LAST THREE CHAPTERS OF THE BIBLE

God's creation (Genesis 1:1-31) ⇾ Christ makes all things new (Revelation 21:5).
Perfectly good (Genesis 1:31) ⇾ Only righteousness dwells in it (Revelation 21:27).
Tree of life (Genesis 2:9, 16-17) ⇾ Tree of life (Revelation 21:6; Revelation 22:1-2, 14, 17).
Adam given dominion (Genesis 1:26-28) ⇾ Last Adam given dominion (Revelation 20:4).
Satan's deception in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:1-7, 11-19) ⇾ Satan's deception at the close of the millennium (Revelation 20:7-10).
Adam's death. Expulsion from Eden (Genesis 3:22-24) ⇾ Second death. Lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15; Revelation 21:8).

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hades were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death. And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 2:11
He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches; He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death.

There will be no second sacrifice for sins and no second resurrection from the second death.​