But shun profane and vain babblings

[Zao is life]

LOL. You have completely lost your mind at this point. You should probably take a break from this for awhile and get some help.

Let me know which professional you have been seeing so I can avoid his "help".

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Why are you so vicious, and embittered? Why can you not engage in a Christian manner? That normally occurs when someone is frustrated at not being able to refute an opposing view.

Just stating the facts. If someone is being deceived by false doctrine, their doctrine is not true but false.

 

[grafted branch]

What you clearly do not understand - that even the Sadducees understood who were challenging Jesus about the resurrection of the body from the dead (which they did not believe in), is that Jesus was telling them that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would rise again from the dead and be seen alive again in their bodies (zao), reminding them that the ever-living (zao) God had told Moses that He was the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, and He was not the God of the dead (nekros) but of those who are living - as in alive in their bodies (zao).

Though like you they still would not believe scripture and what it's telling us, THEY at least understood that Jesus had torpedoed any argument they may have had about the resurrection of the body from the dead by telling them that of necessity what God told Moses meant that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would rise again from the dead because the ever-living (zao) God is not the God of the dead (nekros) but of those who are alive in their bodies (zao).

The Saduccees at least had the sense to know that they had been refuted by Jesus, and did not try to argue the point with Him anymore after that.

Unlike you - because you have already brushed the context of Jesus' words aside and tried to use a Sadducee-type of argument which denies scripture.

With respect as to your person (but not to all your beliefs), I'm not going to debate this point about the meaning of the word zao with you or any other Amillennialist anymore because - forget about only myself who is of absolutely no significance in comparison to Jesus - it's already clear that like the Sadduccees, you would attempt to argue even with Christ against scripture, were He to be the one talking to you. And this is why you will remain blinded by your own beliefs - because as in the case of the Sadduccees, some of them are based on your refusal to believe scripture.

In the New Testament the word záō (alive | living) is always referring either to the living God, or to humans who are alive in the body. The word is never used in reference to anyone who has died | fallen asleep | is not alive and living in the body. That is why the word appears where Jesus said what He said to the Saduccees about God not being the God of the dead, but of the living (zao), because the Sadduccees were arguing with Him about the resurrection of the body from the dead:-

|| Matthew 16:16; Matthew 22:32; Matthew 26:63; Matthew 27:63; Mark 5:23; Mark 12:27; Mark 16:11; Luke 2:36; Luke 4:4; Luke 10:28; Luke 15:13; Luke 20:38; Luke 24:5; Luke 24:23; John 4:10; John 4:11; John 4:50; John 4:51; John 4:53; John 5:25; John 6:51; John 6:57; John 6:58; John 6:69; John 7:38; John 11:25; John 11:26; John 14:19; Acts 1:3; Acts 7:38; Acts 9:41; Acts 10:42; Acts 14:15; Acts 17:28; Acts 20:12; Acts 22:22; Acts 25:19; Acts 25:24; Acts 26:5; Acts 28:4; Romans 1:17; Romans 6:2; Romans 6:10; Romans 6:11; Romans 6:13; Romans 7:1; Romans 7:2; Romans 7:3; Romans 7:9; Romans 8:12; Romans 8:13; Romans 9:26; Romans 10:5; Romans 12:1; Romans 14:7; Romans 14:8; Romans 14:9; Romans 14:11; 1 Corinthians 7:39; 1 Corinthians 9:14; 1 Corinthians 15:45; 2 Corinthians 1:8; 2 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 4:11; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 2 Corinthians 6:9; 2 Corinthians 6:16; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Galatians 2:14; Galatians 2:19; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 3:11; Galatians 3:12; Galatians 5:25; Philippians 1:21; Philippians 1:22; Colossians 2:20; Colossians 3:7; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 3:8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; 1 Timothy 3:15; 1 Timothy 4:10; 1 Timothy 5:6; 1 Timothy 6:17; 2 Timothy 3:12; 2 Timothy 4:1; Titus 2:12; Hebrews 2:15; Hebrews 3:12; Hebrews 4:12; Hebrews 7:8; Hebrews 7:25; Hebrews 9:14; Hebrews 9:17; Hebrews 10:20; Hebrews 10:31; Hebrews 10:38; Hebrews 12:9; Hebrews 12:22; James 4:15; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 Peter 2:4; 1 Peter 2:5; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 Peter 4:5; 1 Peter 4:6; 1 John 4:9; Revelation 1:18; Revelation 2:8; Revelation 3:1; Revelation 4:9; Revelation 4:10; Revelation 5:14; Revelation 7:2; Revelation 7:17; Revelation 10:6; Revelation 13:14; Revelation 15:7; Revelation 16:3; Revelation 19:20 (cast alive into the lake of fire); Revelation 20:4. ||

Copy @Stewardofthemystery @Spiritual Israelite @David in NJ

Your explanation of God telling Moses He was currently the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob based only on their future resurrection doesn’t agree with Matthew 22:32.

According to your view God is the God of the dead based on their future resurrection, but Matthew 22:32 says God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (zao).

I can’t accept your view as accurate on this, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were zao after they died, and God remained their God after physical death.

 

[Zao is life]

The timing of your Amil doctrine is off by a couple thousand years. This shows when Christ ascended to heaven and WHEN Satan was cast down to the EARTH (not bound as your false doctrine promotes)

Revelation 12​

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King James Version​

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12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. ( this is Jesus ascending to heaven )
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. ( notice Satan is not bound)
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”

So Satan was not bound for a thousand years when Jesus Christ was resurrected and ascended to heaven. But Satan was cast down to earth to deceive the whole world, including the Amils who think he is already bound.

I agree.

In Genesis chapter 3, we read of how Satan appeared in the Garden of Eden and deceived mankind.

Revelation 12:9 calls Satan "the great dragon" and "the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world."

The reason given for Satan being bound in Revelation 20:1-3 is that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years have expired.

"And he cast him into the abyss and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled."

If we look for statements in the New Testament implying that Satan was bound when Jesus died and rose again, all we will ever find is passages stating the opposite:

Jesus called Satan "the ruler of this world" and the New Testament calls him "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", who we are told will give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority (Revelation Chapter 13). The saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" ( John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).

Ephesians 2:2 tells us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this Age.

Revelation Chapters 12-13 portray this current status quo as spanning the entire present Age and culminating in the beast's war against the saints in Revelation Chapter 13 (see Revelation 13:7).

There are common objections made by the Amillennialists in this board that they are about to attempt to "challenge" you with, so be ready.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Let me know which professional you have been seeing so I can avoid his "help".

His name is Jesus. Also known as Jesus Christ, The Son of God and The Lamb of God.

 

[Zao is life]

Just stating the facts. If someone is being deceived by false doctrine, their doctrine is not true but false.

They provoke with insults (often using a lot of subtlety) and slurs and even downright statements meant to belittle, and then they blame the person they provoked. It's a common tactic coming from Amillennialists, and also some Preterists and Partal Preterists.

Then they will call you a child etc. Don't let them use their tactics on you. Let them make fools of themselves with their constant subtle and at times not so subtle ad hominems.

 

[WPM]

Just stating the facts. If someone is being deceived by false doctrine, their doctrine is not true but false.

We could do the same as you, but it does not engender fruitful Christian discourse and never wins a person over.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Just stating the facts. If someone is being deceived by false doctrine, their doctrine is not true but false.

What facts are you talking about?

You said:

Satan was cast down to earth to deceive the whole world, including the Amils who think he is already bound.

So, you're saying Satan deceives us and we know that it's talking about him deceiving people who are not Christians. So, let me just confirmation about what you seem to be implying here. Do you believe that Amils are not Christians?

 

[Zao is life]

His name is Jesus. Also known as Jesus Christ, The Son of God and The Lamb of God.

Well He is my helper.

So which professional have you been seeing when you are not seeing Jesus - you know, that one who trains you to be rude, insulting, sarcastic, accuse falsely etc etc?

That's the one I want to avoid.

 

[WPM]

They provoke with insults (often using a lot of subtlety) and slurs and even downright statements meant to belittle, and then they blame the person they provoked. It's a common tactic coming from Amillennialists, and also some Preterists and Partal Preterists.

Then they will call you a child etc. Don't let them use their tactics on you. Let them make fools of themselves with their constant subtle and at timers not so subtle ad hominems

More projection! That sums up your arguments. You have nothing of biblical value to bring to the table. The reader can see that. You love wallowing in the muck because you have no rebuttal to Amillennialism.

 

[WPM]

Well He is my helper.

So which professional have you been seeing when you are not seeing Jesus - you know, that one who trains you to be rude, insulting, sarcastic, accuse falsely etc etc?

That's the one I want to avoid.

More projection!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We could do the same as you, but it does not engender fruitful Christian discourse and never wins a person over.

They can complain all they want about our insults while hypocritically acting like they don't make any insulting comments, but what we never do is accuse other Christians of not being Christians the way some of them do. That is completely out of line.

 

[Zao is life]

More projection! That sums up your arguments. You have nothing of biblical value to bring to the table. The reader can see that. You love wallowing in the muck because you have no rebuttal to Amillennialism.

I've produced so many scriptural and truthful refutes of Amillennialism already and the fact that you are so blinded that you cannot see scripture or believe scripture is not my doing, or my lack of providing scriptural refute of your false doctrines.

Your bad. Not mine.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well He is my helper.

So which professional have you been seeing when you are not seeing Jesus - you know, that one who trains you to be rude, insulting, sarcastic, accuse falsely etc etc?

That's the one I want to avoid.

You aren't fooling anyone with your holier than thou act. You know that, right? The first day I came to this forum I was struck by your discussion with Berean about how insulting you were to him and you just wouldn't let up. Yes, he was insulting right back and that was wrong, too. But, you haven't changed ever since. You're fooling no one here with your act.

 

[Zao is life]

They can complain all they want about our insults while hypocritically acting like they don't make any insulting comments, but what we never do is accuse other Christians of not being Christians the way some of them do. That is completely out of line.

For once we agree.

Do you agree that in this thread and in quite a few others I have not behaved like a Christian?

Good.

Because I agree that in this thread and in quite a few others you have not behaved like a Christian.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

For once we agree.

Do you agree that in this thread and in quite a few others I have not behaved like a Christian?

Good.

Because I agree that in this thread and in quite a few others you have not behaved like a Christian.

At times that's probably true for both of us, but not necessarily as much as you think. Is a Christian not allowed to rebuke another Christian and call out nonsense when he or she sees it? In another thread we have a person denying the deity of Christ and we have called him out on that. Are we called to just play patty cakes and sing Kumbaya with such a person and not indicate how seriously wrong that belief is? I don't think so.

Regardless, this more recent trend of people acting as if one's end times doctrine is a determining factor in whether they are saved and are a Christian or not is disturbing. It makes me wonder if these people even understand how a person is saved.

 

[Zao is life]

You aren't fooling anyone with your holier than thou act. You know that, right? The first day I came to this forum I was struck by your discussion with Berean about how insulting you were to him and you just wouldn't let up. Yes, he was insulting right back and that was wrong, too. But, you haven't changed ever since. You're fooling no one here with your act.

Here we go again.

The teapot and the kettle ..

Indeed, it is a teapot and kettle. PATHETIC.

What shocks me is that I thought you were above the childishness of dragging it out like this.

I insult those who are arrogant in their methods - like yourself and a few others. If you cannot have your say without being a bully, I will be a bully when speaking to you.

If I thought I was holier than you I would pray to Jesus to ask Him to help your heart - but because I know I will get a very serious rebuke in reply, I would not dare.

Ever considered that it's very often a holier than thou disposition that accuses another of the same?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

They provoke with insults (often using a lot of subtlety) and slurs and even downright statements meant to belittle, and then they blame the person they provoked. It's a common tactic coming from Amillennialists, and also some Preterists and Partal Preterists.

Then they will call you a child etc. Don't let them use their tactics on you. Let them make fools of themselves with their constant subtle and at times not so subtle ad hominems.

I’m used to it, I’ve been waging this war with the beasts online for some time now. Make no mistake about it, this is not fellowship but a spiritual battle between the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of a lie aka the false prophet spirit.

 

[David in NJ]

LOL. You have completely lost your mind at this point. You should probably take a break from this for awhile and get some help.

LOVE You my Brother,

This was the BEST fun so far this week!

 

[Zao is life]

At times that's probably true for both of us, but not necessarily as much as you think. Is a Christian not allowed to rebuke another Christian and call out nonsense when he or she sees it? In this thread we have a person denying the deity of Christ and we have called him out on that. Are we called to just play patty cakes and sing Kumbaya with such a person and not indicate how seriously wrong that belief is? I don't think so.

Regardless, this more recent trend of people acting as if one's end times doctrine is a determining factor in whether they are saved and are a Christian or not is disturbing. It makes me wonder if these people even understand how a person is saved.

IMHO a Christian can only rebuke another Christian if he is not guilty of the same. That would help.

I agree that it's wrong to be accused of not being saved or something that implies that you or I are not saved because of our understanding of scripture. Of course I agree.

But I don't have to say so when I see a few ganging up on one person. At least I'm used to that myself, but I do not like to see it happening to someone else.

So I have already spoken twice in two of my posts in this thread (maybe more than two but I remember at least twice) corrected him about what you are talking about, but without a "rebuke", because there are already enough people doing the rebuking in this thread.