Making Disciples

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Episkopos

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You are so wrong-headed about these things Epi. Not to mention a false accuser.
I am spot on...both in my easy to understand explanations of the bible...which is still way over the heads of those who misuse the bible for their own ends. Better your foolish ideas perish without you than with you. You can repent.

The false accusers are yourself and the other pretenders here. I know how shallow your grasp is. You need each other to keep your egos afloat.

But you don't even agree with each other...only in the carnal lifeline you provide for each other.

Which is it? Is salvation a gift...that comes with a new righteousness and holiness....or is it something you have to work for in a progressive way?

You don't know. Depending on the shift of the wind, your answer changes. If ego is involved...you lean that way.

Why don't you know? Because you are going by religious theories and speculation...rather than the actual knowledge of God.

And from that very poor place you want to judge me. You have no idea what you are in for.
 
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Lizbeth

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View attachment 49229
Look at how kind and caring that face seems to be my friend . Why what a marvelous smile
and what loving and caring eyes she sure do seem to have .
But that DONT MEAN one follows GOD .
I say that cause for quite a few years and even a couple of decades ,
the church has sat under a lot of these ever smiling faces , that seem so loving and so darn caring
AND YET THEY DECIEVING THEM BIG TIME .
Another gospel has been brought in and it was done so with lots of smiles and ever kind words
and speeches of love and etc . Marvel not if many can indeed have a very caring appearance
seem very loving , seem ever so kind , and YET DO NOT KNOW GOD and are there to DECIEVE .
Now i know christains are to be kind and caring
BUT THEY ALSO supposed to FOLLOW CHRIST , to be grave , sincere, to correct sins and errors within the church and etc .
SO , lets not let the smiles fool us at all . WE TEST THEM , WE DO SO BY THE BIBLE
with the mindset that says , LET GOD BE TRUE BUT EVERY MAN , or woman , A LIAR .
This generation is in double time deadly error my friend .
Never seen so much smiling and laughing and manipulation from a politician in my life brother. You would think the prospect of being leader of the entire free world especially in such dangerous times would bring a sense of gravity with it. Yes the devil is a slick deceiver and unfortunately many are of his spirit and are literally being helped by him. Nevertheless God is on His throne and calmly going about His business and watching over His word to fulfill it.
 
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Johann

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Instead of grandstanding and posturing...why not actually use that mind of yours for something other than self-justification. Engage the text. Engage the words from God.
Something you don't do-engaging the text brother. And IF you do you bring in your assumptions and reading into the text what is NOT there.

Romans 3:21-24 (ESV):

"But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."
Romans 5:17 (ESV):

"For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ."
2 Corinthians 5:21 (ESV):

"For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."
Philippians 3:9 (ESV):

"And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith."
Titus 3:5 (ESV):

"He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit."


Romans 4:3 (ESV):

"For what does the Scripture say? ‘Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.’"
Here, Paul references Genesis 15:6, demonstrating that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness, not based on works.

Romans 4:5 (ESV):

"And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness."
This verse clearly states that righteousness is imputed to those who trust in God rather than relying on their own works.

Rom 4:1 What, then, shall we say Abraham our father, to have found, according to flesh?
Rom 4:2 for if Abraham by works was declared righteous, he hath to boast—but not before God;
Rom 4:3 for what doth the writing say? 'And Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him—to righteousness;'
Rom 4:4 and to him who is working, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt;
Rom 4:5 and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned—to righteousness:
Rom 4:6 even as David also doth speak of the happiness of the man to whom God doth reckon righteousness apart from works:
Rom 4:7 'Happy they whose lawless acts were forgiven, and whose sins were covered;
Rom 4:8 happy the man to whom the Lord may not reckon sin.'
Rom 4:9 Is this happiness, then, upon the circumcision, or also upon the uncircumcision—for we say that the faith was reckoned to Abraham—to righteousness?
Rom 4:10 how then was it reckoned? he being in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision;
Rom 4:11 and a sign he did receive of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith in the uncircumcision, for his being father of all those believing through uncircumcision, for the righteousness also being reckoned to them,
Rom 4:12 and father of circumcision to those not of circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of the faith, that is in the uncircumcision of our father Abraham.
The Promise Realized Through Faith
Rom 4:13 For not through law is the promise to Abraham, or to his seed, of his being heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith;
Rom 4:14 for if they who are of law are heirs, the faith hath been made void, and the promise hath been made useless;
Rom 4:15 for the law doth work wrath; for where law is not, neither is transgression.
Rom 4:16 Because of this it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, for the promise being sure to all the seed, not to that which is of the law only, but also to that which is of the faith of Abraham,
Rom 4:17 who is father of us all (according as it hath been written—'A father of many nations I have set thee,') before Him whom he did believe—God, who is quickening the dead, and is calling the things that be not as being.
Rom 4:18 Who, against hope in hope did believe, for his becoming father of many nations according to that spoken: 'So shall thy seed be;'
Rom 4:19 and not having been weak in the faith, he did not consider his own body, already become dead, (being about a hundred years old,) and the deadness of Sarah's womb,
Rom 4:20 and at the promise of God did not stagger in unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, having given glory to God,
Rom 4:21 and having been fully persuaded that what He hath promised He is able also to do:
Rom 4:22 wherefore also it was reckoned to him to righteousness.
Rom 4:23 And it was not written on his account alone, that it was reckoned to him,
Rom 4:24 but also on ours, to whom it is about to be reckoned—to us believing on Him who did raise up Jesus our Lord out of the dead,
Rom 4:25 who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.


Romans 4:6-8 (ESV):

"Just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: ‘Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.’"
Paul uses David’s words to illustrate that righteousness is imputed apart from works, focusing on the forgiveness and covering of sins.

Told you before, you are no teacher but an impediment to others who need to hear the good news of Jesus Christ.
 
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Episkopos

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Never seen so much smiling and laughing and manipulation from a politician in my life brother. You would think the prospect of being leader of the entire free world especially in such dangerous times would bring a sense of gravity with it. Yes the devil is a slick deceiver and unfortunately many are of his spirit and are literally being helped by him. Nevertheless God is on His throne and calmly going about His business and watching over His word to fulfill it.
The political scene is just a reflection of a very poor state among supposed believers. The poor state and dishonesty of people who claim to be the church causes spiritual chaos to reign...leaving room for every possible deviation from all that is wholesome and true.

It's a trickle down effect. Spiritual chaos brings a sick society. And it will get worse and worse since so few are able to tolerate even an instant of truth where people name and claim themselves to be in the truth. The nerve of some people. But the wrath of God is coming...on those who think they are safe. Like Agag who said the danger of death is now passed. (before being hacked into pieces by Samuel).

Better to be hacked to pieces in one's false doctrines than to be literally taken to pieces on judgment day. Let those who are able to read and hear take note.
 

Episkopos

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It's both Epi. But this can't be perceived by the natural man.
False. Of course you say it's both. But you don't know a mutually exclusive proposition when you see one.

Holiness is NOT progressive. I have said this here many times. Can you be half-holy? What does a little leaven do to the batch?

The bible speaks of progression in righteousness...not holiness. Do we progress into God's righteousness? No. It is a gift along with the salvation of God's own holiness. No one progresses INTO a gift. Holiness is part of the gift of salvation. If there is no holiness in the salvation...then it is not from God.

No, what we progress into is learning righteousness on a human level...as it is reflected from the holiness and righteousness of God. IOW we learn to obey the commandments.
 

Episkopos

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Trying to preach a low-resolution level of the gospel to non-believers is much easier than trying to get first cut believers to receive anything that goes beyond a carnal grasp of things. Especially when the truth is deviated to serve the "converted" religious ego. The gospel in full resolution is about life and power...but also being crucified from the flesh with its carnal understanding. Given a choice, almost all will go the easier route. The people cried out for Jesus Barabbas...to be forgiven...as all those who are looking for forgiveness will do. So very few will opt to die with Christ for the sake of the truth.

As such, preaching to non-believers is easy compared to trying to teach those who have been indoctrinated into a false gospel scheme into a full resolution understanding of the gospel. The devil knows his business.
 
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Johann

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Holiness is NOT progressive. I have said this here many times. Can you be half-holy? What does a little leaven do to the batch?

The bible speaks of progression in righteousness...not holiness. Do we progress into God's righteousness? No. It is a gift along with the salvation of God's own holiness. No one progresses INTO a gift. Holiness is part of the gift of salvation. If there is no holiness in the salvation...then it is not from God.

No, what we progress into is learning righteousness on a human level...as it is reflected from the holiness and righteousness of God. IOW we learn to obey the commandments.
2 Corinthians 3:18 (TR):

Greek: "Ἡμεῖς δὲ πάντες ἀνακεκαλυμμένον τὸ πρόσωπον ὡς ἐν ἀναγλύφῳ τὴν δόξαν τοῦ Κυρίου θεωρῶντες μεταμορφοῦμεθα εἰς τὴν αὐτὴν εἰκόνα ἀπὸ δόξης εἰς δόξαν, ὡς ἀπὸ Κυρίου Πνεύματος."
Morphology: The verb "μεταμορφοῦμεθα" (metamorphoumetha) is in the present middle/passive indicative, indicating an ongoing transformation or progression. This verse illustrates that believers are progressively transformed into the image of Christ, which includes growing in holiness.
1 Thessalonians 4:3 (TR):

Greek: "Τάδε γὰρ ἐστὶν τὸ θέλημα τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἁγιασμὸς ὑμῶν, ἀπέχεσθαι ὑμᾶς ἀπὸ πορνείας·"
Morphology: The noun "ἁγιασμὸς" (hagiasmos) refers to "holiness" or "sanctification." It is in the nominative singular, emphasizing that sanctification (holiness) is God's will for believers. The verb "ἀπέχεσθαι" (apekhesthai) in the infinitive expresses the ongoing process of abstaining from immorality, suggesting a progressive aspect to achieving holiness.
Hebrews 12:14 (TR):

Greek: "ἐγείρετε τὴν εἰρήνην σὺν πᾶσιν καὶ τὸν ἁγιασμὸν, ὃν χωρὶς οὐδείς ὄψεται τὸν Κύριον."
Morphology: The noun "ἁγιασμὸν" (hagiasmon) means "holiness" and is in the accusative singular, indicating that pursuing holiness is an active and ongoing requirement. The verb "ἐγείρετε" (egeirate) in the imperative mood suggests an active pursuit or progression in holiness.
Philippians 3:12-14 (TR):

Greek: "Οὐχ ὅτι ἔχειν τετέλειωμαι ἤδη, ἢ ἤδη τετελειωμένος εἰμί, ἀλλὰ διώκω, εἴπερ καὶ καταλάβω ἐν ᾧ καὶ κατελήμφθην ὑπὸ τοῦ Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ. Ἀδελφοί, ἐγὼ ἑαυτὸν οὐ λογίζομαι ἔχειν κατέχειν· ἓν δὲ, ἐπελάθοντος μὲν τῶν ὄπισθεν, ἐπεκτεινόμενος δὲ πρὸς τὰ ἔμπροσθεν, κατὰ σκοπὸν διώκω τὸ βραβεῖον τῆς ἄνω κλήσεως τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ."
Morphology: The verbs "διώκω" (diōkō) and "ἐπεκτεινόμενος" (epekteinomenos) are in the present active indicative, indicating an ongoing effort and progression. Paul speaks of pressing on towards a goal, which includes growing in holiness and righteousness.

The Scriptures show that holiness involves a process of growth and transformation. While it is true that holiness is a gift from God, the Bible also describes a progressive aspect to how we grow in holiness. This growth is not about earning holiness but about becoming more aligned with God's character through ongoing transformation and sanctification. The idea that holiness is entirely static and unchanging contradicts the biblical teaching that believers are continually being transformed into the image of Christ and are called to pursue holiness as an active, ongoing pursuit.


I think you have a problem with holiness, righteousness and sanctification [Theosis] and the biblical terminologies-Miles Coverdale--and a good Ol' Webster dictionary can be very helpful.

As usual, no Scripture references on your end so it is difficult to have a dialogue with you-you should open a zoom account and open a Chat on your YouTube-accountability the key.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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You simply have no understanding of the gospel or God. You want an exclusive God the way the Jews still want. And you wouldn't know a disciple if you met one. All you know is the superficial religious facade type of person. You recognize your own.

Can I hear an amen!!!?? ! :rolleyes:
Disciple simply means student ... and we all are aren't we?
 
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Episkopos

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Disciple simply means student ... and we all are aren't we?
That's true in a sense. A person can know little to nothing about a subject and still be a student. But being a disciple of Christ comes with certain conditions. The school of Christ is very exclusive. And people will confuse the exclusivity of being a disciple of Christ with a future inheritance of eternal life. We see that a lot here. Why? No discipleship.

Jesus said that unless we are willing to lose our lives we cannot be His disciple. The key here is the "His". There are many who consider themselves to be disciples of Christ but are not such. That's why we see many being rejected by Jesus on judgment day.

We do not decide to be a disciple of Christ. Jesus calls us and elects us into such a training.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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We do not decide to be a disciple of Christ. Jesus calls us and elects us into such a training.
That is correct. We are chosen, then called/ drawn and answer the call. Faith comes by the Word. We hear it, read it and believe. We become hungry for the Word and so study it, on different levels ... some more than others, attend church as students (disciples), pray, are guided by the Spirit, Who lives in us... Are we willing to die for our beliefs. I am. So what more are we to do? Jesus said believe in Him, that He died for our sins and was buried and rose from the dead on the third day and we will be saved. And in fact _ are NOW saved.
 

Lizbeth

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False. Of course you say it's both. But you don't know a mutually exclusive proposition when you see one.

Holiness is NOT progressive. I have said this here many times. Can you be half-holy? What does a little leaven do to the batch?

The bible speaks of progression in righteousness...not holiness. Do we progress into God's righteousness? No. It is a gift along with the salvation of God's own holiness. No one progresses INTO a gift. Holiness is part of the gift of salvation. If there is no holiness in the salvation...then it is not from God.

No, what we progress into is learning righteousness on a human level...as it is reflected from the holiness and righteousness of God. IOW we learn to obey the commandments.
It's spiritually discerned Epi. And I've pointed this out many times, how scripture says all things have been put under the feet of Jesus but we do not yet (necessarily) see all things put under.

And if anyone has already attained that for which we have been apprehended by Christ Jesus they wouldn't still need to be reaching for it would they? Nobody should think more highly of themselves than they ought.

Don't want to think how it's going to go on judgment day for those who are seeking to undermine the very gospel and faith of Christ's flock.....whether deliberately or unknowingly, the Lord knows.
 
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Episkopos

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That is correct. We are chosen, then called/ drawn and answer the call. Faith comes by the Word. We hear it, read it and believe. We become hungry for the Word and so study it, on different levels ... some more than others, attend church as students (disciples), pray, are guided by the Spirit, Who lives in us... Are we willing to die for our beliefs. I am. So what more are we to do? Jesus said believe in Him, that He died for our sins and was buried and rose from the dead on the third day and we will be saved. And in fact _ are NOW saved.
Keep in mind that Peter said he was ready to die with Jesus...that is...until he was tested.
 

Episkopos

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Wow. Really? When Jesus said simply, "If YE WOULD be my disciple....."....?
Think it through. Jesus said...No man comes to Me unless the Father draws Him. And this isn't speaking of the religious version of churchianity whereby people decide for themselves that they are "saved", "righteous", a little bit holy, disciples....etc
 

Episkopos

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It's spiritually discerned Epi. And I've pointed this out many times, how scripture says all things have been put under the feet of Jesus but we do not yet (necessarily) see all things put under.

And if anyone has already attained that for which we have been apprehended by Christ Jesus they wouldn't still need to be reaching for it would they? Nobody should think more highly of themselves than they ought.
The full stature of Christ is a character issue. Maturity. That is the attaining. The apprehension that is of Christ is a purity issue. Holiness.

Don't want to think how it's going to go on judgment day for those who are seeking to undermine the very gospel and faith of Christ's flock.....whether deliberately or unknowingly, the Lord knows.
Hence the way I warn people who will hiss at those who failed to warn them.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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View attachment 49228
Herein lies the problem in large with this church age .
Take notice at her face . Does that face not look very loving , very kind , so caring
BUT IT DONT MEAN one follows GOD .
Many have come within christendom and they too have these huge smiles , these ever so caring appearances
BUT THEY Have come in to bring the churches INTO ANOTHER GOSPEL SISTER .
and this day and age most think if one comes to their church or if their own pastor is big on smiles and seems so caring
THAT THEY JUST MUST KNOW GOD . Many now have come to bring another gospel so called
into christain and worse many are really beginning to heed that other gospel message .
While that false gospel of thiers will speak certain truths , it will then use those certain truths
LIKE for example GOOD WORKS , and twist that into a lie , which implies hey if other religoins and other beleivers
just have love and good works , ALL IS FINE they KNOW GOD TOO . satan is slick sister .
He will have everyone to pick up their own cross , SO LONG as they DONT COME TO HE WHO WAS ON SAID CROSS .
all this is , is mans own ways and merits , self and self righteousness to attain Their own salvation and right standing with GOD .
I see the core of the very root of epis message . and while it does use truths , IT WILL DO SO
to cause a lie to be BELIEVED . I am very worried for this generation sister . very worried and deeply troubled
in my soul for so many who now are heading right into a TRAP .
What Has Kamala brushed on her face in that photo, looks like orange !

Orange woman is it now ? some sort of Tanning makeup ?

Or is it that she trying to look not so white ?

Is that what Trump uses ? only not as dark number shade maybe ? They call Trump Orange man don't they.