Making Disciples

[Johann]

I imagine you've already covered this . . .

Romans 4:2-9 KJV
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9) Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

This is plainly stated truth in Scripture. God doesn't repay good works with salvation, plain and simple! Furthermore, the one who works to obtain salvation doesn't.

This false doctrine that so-called episkopos teaches turns people away from God. He works tirelessly against the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Much love!

Brother-It’s important to stay grounded in truth, especially when you sense someone might be leading you astray. Proverbs 4:23 says, "Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it." If someone is causing confusion or leading you away from sound teaching, it’s wise to distance yourself. Titus 3:10-11 advises, "Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned."

Signing off.

Enjoy.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus' words about being "hot" or "cold" refer to spiritual fervor, not a contrast between holiness and righteousness.

1. Jesus only allows for being either hot or cold. He rejects the lukewarm. He said...

I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot: I would you were cold or hot. [16] So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.

What follows is a lesson in reading with honesty and skill. Those who lack honesty and reading skills should not respond...but think it through.

If Jesus is referring to spiritual fervour in the above verses, then He fully and completely rejects any transition phase from cold to hot. In effect, He wants a person to be either cold or hot...."I would you were cold or hot" .....but nothing in between. Jesus wants cold or hot...these are acceptable. So much for gradual learning or progressive sanctification...even maturing.

Does God not want a spiritual fervour? Well there is no transition into a hotter spiritual fervour possible in your scheme.

Take some cold water and try warming it up... it gets a little warmer as more heat is applied. (try this at home) Now as soon as the temperature moves from cold to hotter...Jesus then rejects it. Do you understand that that's not how Jesus behaves at all? If spiritual fervour is at play here, how can one ever become hot if all transitional temperatures or fervours are immediately rejected as they rise above being cold?

So then Jesus accepts cold or hot.....but nothing in between. If one is honest and not twisting the meaning of the text, that is the only conclusion one can come to.

I have spoken the truth about the above verses...being about righteousness (cold) UNTO holiness (hot). And notice the order...always cold first then hot. From righteousness unto holiness.

There is NO transition phase into holiness. There is no progressive sanctification. Sanctification is by translation.

How then can something cold be seen as good and acceptable? Something cold is refreshing. Like a cup of cold that Jesus says a person will receive a reward for. In the desert heat a cup of cold anything is a mercy and of great benefit.

And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.


In the above verse it says "a cup of cold". Giving a person something cold in the heat of the day is seen as DOING righteousness. Any kind of giving and charity is seen as such. Righteousness is about DOING. Holiness is about BEING.


God accepts righteousness and holiness of course...but nothing that is trying to mix the two. Neither doing nor being...

 

[Lizbeth]

Which salvation? Unto holiness...yes. And it's not about having a bearing on faith...it is by faith. Unto righteousness...it's about what we do. This could be by faith or by works, Our choices.

That's strictly on the righteousness level. James was concerned about people who had neither holiness nor righteousness. Like today.

Yes salvation is by faith. That's what some of us around here have been trying to tell you. Not of our own, it's a GIFT.

And neither are we claiming righteousness of our own...for what do we have that we didn't RECEIVE? All glory belongs to God.

Remember Jesus telling His disciples to rejoice rather that their names were written in heaven and why........may we not also humbly and gratefully rejoice in that knowledge? His Spirit witnessing to our spirits that we are the children of God......so yes, we are certain of our salvation......we know and believe it by faith.......as long as we endure to the end and dont' fall away meanwhile, because our race is not finished and we haven't won the crown until the end of our life.

You are not interested in what the bible is communicating.

You need to read the bible without the indoctrination. In the passages that follow what is the criteria for being written into the Book of Life??? I will colour in the answer in case your reading comprehension is not up to par (unless you are also colour-blind)

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Who has the honesty AND reading skills to decipher this "hard to understand" narrative??

Well we read and understand this, don't we......where Jesus said, "this is the work of God, to believe in him who He has sent." That is what gets us written in the Lamb's book of life. Believers will be judged and assigned a place in heaven......rewarded and/or suffer loss....according to our fruit and works after coming to faith....being careful how we build and obeying the Lord etc. This is not a judgment unto condemnation for the children of God, because those who believe (with faith not of our own) are no longer under condemnation after coming to faith.

 

[Johann]

God accepts righteousness and holiness of course...but nothing that is trying to mix the two. Neither doing nor being...

The Claim: "If Jesus is referring to spiritual fervor in the above verses, then He fully and completely rejects any transition phase from cold to hot."

Refutation:
The passage in Revelation 3:15-16 does not imply a rejection of the transition from cold to hot. Instead, it addresses the state of being lukewarm, which Jesus finds distasteful. The context of the message is crucial: Jesus is addressing the church of Laodicea, known historically for its lukewarm water supply, neither refreshing like cold water nor therapeutic like hot water. The metaphor reflects the spiritual complacency and self-sufficiency of the Laodiceans, not the process of spiritual growth.

Scriptural Context:

Revelation 3:17-19 provides further insight into why Jesus rebukes them: "You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent."
James 1:4 speaks of the importance of spiritual growth: "Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." This supports the idea that spiritual fervor is indeed a process and not an instant state.

2. The Claim: "Jesus accepts cold or hot...but nothing in between. There is no transition phase into holiness. It is by translation."

Refutation:
The Bible clearly teaches that spiritual growth is a process, often described as sanctification, which involves a transition from unrighteousness to righteousness, and from spiritual immaturity to maturity. The idea that there is "no transition phase" contradicts the broader biblical narrative of progressive sanctification.

Scriptural Evidence:

Philippians 1:6: "Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." This indicates an ongoing process of spiritual growth.

2 Peter 3:18: "But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." Growth implies a process, not an instant change.

Romans 12:2: "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind." Transformation here is described as an ongoing process, involving a change in one’s spiritual state over time.

3. The Claim: "Something cold is refreshing. Like a cup of cold that Jesus says a person will receive a reward for... Righteousness is about DOING. Holiness is about BEING."

Refutation:
The metaphorical use of "cold" in Matthew 10:42 ("And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.") is distinct from the metaphorical use in Revelation 3. The cold water in Matthew 10:42 represents an act of kindness and is a positive example of righteous action. However, the "cold" in Revelation 3 symbolizes a state of spiritual indifference or a lack of zeal.

Scriptural Distinctions:

Matthew 5:6: "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled." This indicates a progression toward spiritual fervor (hot), and the desire for righteousness is encouraged and rewarded.
1 Peter 1:15-16: "But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: ‘Be holy, because I am holy.’" Holiness involves both doing (action) and being (state), and these are not mutually exclusive but interconnected.

4. The Claim: "God accepts righteousness and holiness of course...but nothing that is trying to mix the two. Neither doing nor being..."

Refutation:
The Bible does not support the separation of righteousness (doing) and holiness (being) as mutually exclusive categories. Instead, the Scriptures emphasize that true holiness naturally produces righteous deeds, and true righteousness stems from a holy character. The two are inextricably linked in the process of sanctification.
Dicing and slicing @Episkopos playing fast and loose with the text.

Understanding Holiness and Righteousness in Hebrew and Greek
Holiness:

Hebrew Term: קֹדֶשׁ (Qodesh)

Root: The Hebrew root word קדש (Q-D-Sh) conveys the idea of separation, setting apart, or sanctification. In the Old Testament, qodesh refers to something or someone set apart for a sacred purpose, dedicated to God. Holiness in this sense is the condition of being distinct from the common, profane, or sinful, and it is associated with purity and moral perfection.
Usage: In Leviticus 19:2, "You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy," the word qadosh (holy) is used to describe the moral and spiritual perfection of God, which His people are called to emulate.
Greek Term: ἁγιότης (Hagiotēs) or ἁγιασμός (Hagiasmos)

Root: The Greek term ἅγιος (hagios) means holy, sacred, or set apart. The related noun ἁγιασμός (hagiasmos) refers to the process of sanctification, the act of making or becoming holy. In the New Testament, holiness is not just a static state but an ongoing process of moral and spiritual purification, reflecting God's nature.
Usage: In 1 Peter 1:15-16, "But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do," the term hagios is used to describe the call to live a life set apart from sin and dedicated to God's will.
Righteousness:
Hebrew Term: צֶדֶק (Tzedeq) or צְדָקָה (Tzedakah)

Root: The Hebrew root צדק (Tz-D-Q) relates to concepts of justice, fairness, and righteousness. Tzedeq often refers to a state of moral and legal rectitude in relation to God's standards, while tzedakah often emphasizes the act of righteousness, especially in the context of charitable deeds or justice toward others.
Usage: In Genesis 15:6, "And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness," the word tzedakah is used to describe the righteousness credited to Abraham because of his faith. Here, righteousness is seen as a relational concept, aligning with God's will and covenant.
Greek Term: δικαιοσύνη (Dikaiosynē)

Root: The Greek term δικαιοσύνη comes from δίκαιος (dikaios), meaning just or righteous. In the New Testament, dikaiosynē refers to righteousness as both a legal status before God and a moral quality of life that reflects God’s just and holy character.
Usage: In Romans 3:21-22, "But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known... This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe," the term dikaiosynē denotes the righteous status conferred upon believers through faith in Christ, as well as the ethical dimension of living in a way that is pleasing to God.
Interconnection Between Holiness and Righteousness:
In both the Hebrew and Greek concepts, holiness (qodesh/hagios) and righteousness (tzedeq/dikaiosynē) are deeply interconnected. Holiness speaks to the state of being set apart for God, which naturally leads to righteous behavior. Righteousness, particularly in the biblical sense, is not merely about outward actions but flows from a heart that is aligned with God's holiness. The process of sanctification (hagiasmos), or becoming holy, is intrinsically linked with living righteously (dikaiosynē), reflecting God's moral and ethical standards.


Scriptural Evidence:

James 2:17: "In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." Righteousness (doing) is a natural outflow of faith and holiness (being).
Ephesians 2:10: "For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Here, being (created in Christ) leads to doing (good works).
Hebrews 12:14: "Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." This shows that holiness involves active effort, not a passive state.

The interpretation of Revelation 3:15-16 presented in the argument misreads the passage by ignoring the historical and cultural context of Laodicea and the broader scriptural teachings on sanctification. The Bible clearly teaches that spiritual growth is a process, and both righteousness (doing) and holiness (being) are essential aspects of a believer's life. The passage in Revelation addresses spiritual complacency, not the rejection of spiritual progress.

See how you have it backward?--reading INTO the text? You must have a very vivid imagination Which brings to mind you also don't believe in progressive sanctification and probably another advocate for theosis.

J.

 

[Lizbeth]

Not true. I call all who call on the Lord my brethren. It's not for me to decide who is born of God or not. As such I don't disparage the faith of those who are in one denomination or another. Whether Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox...or un-orthodox...I don't judge a person's affiliation as much as their own faith, witness and walk. We will be judged by what we have done, not our belief system.

Oh we can sometimes discern Epi. Jesus said by their fruits you will know them.

"Denominations" are not of God.

 

[Lizbeth]

No one achieves the righteousness of God...it is a gift.

Yes....... again this is what we have been trying to tell you.

 

[Lizbeth]

I imagine you've already covered this . . .

Romans 4:2-9 KJV
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9) Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

This is plainly stated truth in Scripture. God doesn't repay good works with salvation, plain and simple! Furthermore, the one who works to obtain salvation doesn't.

This false doctrine that so-called episkopos teaches turns people away from God. He works tirelessly against the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Much love!

Amen....and woe to false shepherds who would muddy those pure clear waters with their feet.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes salvation is by faith. That's what some of us around here have been trying to tell you. Not of our own, it's a GIFT.

Exactly what I've been trying to get you to understand. There is no progressive sanctification. It is a gift. Either one is holy or not.

Salvation is about victory over sin and the world...to walk as Jesus walked. Why do you neglect so great a salvation?

And neither are we claiming righteousness of our own...for what do we have that we didn't RECEIVE? All glory belongs to God.

NO. You CLAIM to have a righteousness not your own by a process called "self-justification". You are not engaging enough brain cells here. Don't you think the Pharisees also claimed to have the righteousness of God? Look how many times it says in the OT...their righteousness is of ME.

The difference comes down to what is actually real. Real miraculous walk, real miraculous faith, real miraculous righteousness, real miraculous holiness. All this fully outside the grasp of religious speculators or namers and claimers. All these as gifts...real gifts...not name and claim and assume and presume gifts.

You suggest that you can declare something that is not true as being true...equating yourself with God. Such is the arrogance of your position...just like Pharisees of old...and perhaps much worse.

Remember Jesus telling His disciples to rejoice rather that their names were written in heaven and why........may we not also humbly and gratefully rejoice in that knowledge?

The knowledge that they were written in heaven? Do you rejoice that people in the past were accepted by God? Or is the presumption of what you esteem yourself to be that euphoric?

His Spirit witnessing to our spirits that we are the children of God......so yes, we are certain of our salvation......we know and believe it by faith.......as long as we endure to the end and dont' fall away meanwhile, because our race is not finished and we haven't won the crown until the end of our life.

Saved, yes, but saved to what end? Read Lev. 16.

Well we read and understand this, don't we......where Jesus said, "this is the work of God, to believe in him who He has sent." That is what gets us written in the Lamb's book of life. Believers will be judged and assigned a place in heaven......rewarded and/or suffer loss....according to our fruit and works after coming to faith....being careful how we build and obeying the Lord etc. This is not a judgment unto condemnation for the children of God, because those who believe (with faith not of our own) are no longer under condemnation after coming to faith.

That's not biblical. Only those who enter into Christ to abide in Him are immune from condemnation. Many many will be rejected due to a lack of humility and fear of the Lord. Many pretenders will be exposed for having exaggerated their own condition and lying about God's nature and ways. And the pretenders encourage each other in their pretending...smug with self-assurance. For now. There is still time to repent.

 

[Johann]

There is no progressive sanctification.

Incorrect-

The concept of progressive sanctification, which refers to the ongoing process of becoming more holy and Christ-like after initial conversion, is a doctrine that has roots in the early church but was not always articulated in the same systematic way as in later Christian theology. However, many early Church Fathers expressed ideas that align with what is now understood as progressive sanctification. Below, we’ll explore some of their writings and teachings to understand their views on this concept.

1. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150–215 AD)
View on Sanctification:
Clement of Alexandria, in his work Stromata, discusses the growth of the believer in knowledge and virtue. He emphasizes that the Christian life involves a continuous journey towards perfection, which requires discipline, learning, and moral improvement. Clement sees the Christian life as an ongoing process of purification and enlightenment, which aligns with the idea of progressive sanctification.

Relevant Quote:

"The righteous man, then, is he who has been persuaded by the word, and has come to believe, and who by the work of faith, and the impulses of love, advances to the point of virtue and knowledge, and so rises to the final and perfect state of a true Gnostic." (Stromata, Book 6, Chapter 13)

2. Origen (c. 184–253 AD)
View on Sanctification:
Origen, another influential theologian, viewed the Christian life as a journey of the soul towards union with God. He taught that the soul must go through stages of purification, illumination, and perfection. This process involved not only moral growth but also a deepening understanding of divine truths. Origen’s teachings strongly support the idea of progressive sanctification as a lifelong process of spiritual and moral development.

Relevant Quote:

"But the one who is making progress...comes in many different stages to the perfect man, and the measure of maturity of the fullness of Christ. And these stages are, first, the purification by virtue, which is done by faith and actions, second, the stage of progress, and third, the state of perfection." (On First Principles, Book 4, Chapter 1)

3. Augustine of Hippo (354–430 AD)
View on Sanctification:
Augustine's writings also support the concept of progressive sanctification. He believed that after conversion, the believer continues to struggle against sin and grows in righteousness through the grace of God. Augustine taught that sanctification is not instantaneous but involves a lifelong struggle against sin, where the believer is gradually conformed to the image of Christ.

Relevant Quote:

"For although he is already saved by hope, he is still, by the actual renewal which takes place from day to day in his inward man, in the process of being saved by the faith which works by love." (On the Spirit and the Letter, Chapter 27)

4. Gregory of Nyssa (c. 335–395 AD)
View on Sanctification:
Gregory of Nyssa, in his work The Life of Moses, describes the Christian life as an endless progression toward God. He uses the concept of epektasis, or continual striving, to illustrate the believer's unceasing journey toward holiness and perfection. For Gregory, sanctification is a dynamic and ongoing process, where each step closer to God reveals further possibilities for growth and spiritual ascent.

Relevant Quote:

"This truly is the vision of God: never to be satisfied in the desire to see him. But one must always, by looking at what he can see, rekindle his desire to see more." (The Life of Moses, Book 2, Chapter 239)

5. John Chrysostom (c. 349–407 AD)
View on Sanctification:
John Chrysostom emphasized the importance of spiritual growth and moral improvement in the Christian life. He often preached about the need for continual repentance and striving towards virtue. Chrysostom saw the Christian life as a journey of transformation, where the believer is gradually sanctified through the practice of virtues and the work of the Holy Spirit.

Relevant Quote:

"Let us not be content with what we have already attained, but pressing on to the things before us, let us show forth every endeavor for what is perfect." (Homilies on Philippians, Homily 12)


The early Church Fathers did indeed articulate ideas that align with the concept of progressive sanctification. While they may not have used the exact terminology that later theologians developed, their writings consistently emphasize the notion that the Christian life involves a continuous process of spiritual and moral growth. They understood sanctification as a dynamic, lifelong journey in which the believer is progressively conformed to the likeness of Christ through the work of the Holy Spirit and the practice of virtue.

I can give you MANY examples of progressive sanctification in Scriptures brother-but your eyes and mind is "closed"

 

[Lizbeth]

The Claim: "If Jesus is referring to spiritual fervor in the above verses, then He fully and completely rejects any transition phase from cold to hot."

Refutation:
The passage in Revelation 3:15-16 does not imply a rejection of the transition from cold to hot. Instead, it addresses the state of being lukewarm, which Jesus finds distasteful. The context of the message is crucial: Jesus is addressing the church of Laodicea, known historically for its lukewarm water supply, neither refreshing like cold water nor therapeutic like hot water. The metaphor reflects the spiritual complacency and self-sufficiency of the Laodiceans, not the process of spiritual growth.

Scriptural Context:

Revelation 3:17-19 provides further insight into why Jesus rebukes them: "You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent."
James 1:4 speaks of the importance of spiritual growth: "Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." This supports the idea that spiritual fervor is indeed a process and not an instant state.

2. The Claim: "Jesus accepts cold or hot...but nothing in between. There is no transition phase into holiness. It is by translation."

Refutation:
The Bible clearly teaches that spiritual growth is a process, often described as sanctification, which involves a transition from unrighteousness to righteousness, and from spiritual immaturity to maturity. The idea that there is "no transition phase" contradicts the broader biblical narrative of progressive sanctification.

Scriptural Evidence:

Philippians 1:6: "Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." This indicates an ongoing process of spiritual growth.

2 Peter 3:18: "But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." Growth implies a process, not an instant change.

Romans 12:2: "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind." Transformation here is described as an ongoing process, involving a change in one’s spiritual state over time.

3. The Claim: "Something cold is refreshing. Like a cup of cold that Jesus says a person will receive a reward for... Righteousness is about DOING. Holiness is about BEING."

Refutation:
The metaphorical use of "cold" in Matthew 10:42 ("And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.") is distinct from the metaphorical use in Revelation 3. The cold water in Matthew 10:42 represents an act of kindness and is a positive example of righteous action. However, the "cold" in Revelation 3 symbolizes a state of spiritual indifference or a lack of zeal.

Scriptural Distinctions:

Matthew 5:6: "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled." This indicates a progression toward spiritual fervor (hot), and the desire for righteousness is encouraged and rewarded.
1 Peter 1:15-16: "But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: ‘Be holy, because I am holy.’" Holiness involves both doing (action) and being (state), and these are not mutually exclusive but interconnected.

4. The Claim: "God accepts righteousness and holiness of course...but nothing that is trying to mix the two. Neither doing nor being..."

Refutation:
The Bible does not support the separation of righteousness (doing) and holiness (being) as mutually exclusive categories. Instead, the Scriptures emphasize that true holiness naturally produces righteous deeds, and true righteousness stems from a holy character. The two are inextricably linked in the process of sanctification.
Dicing and slicing @Episkopos playing fast and loose with the text.

Understanding Holiness and Righteousness in Hebrew and Greek
Holiness:

Hebrew Term: קֹדֶשׁ (Qodesh)

Root: The Hebrew root word קדש (Q-D-Sh) conveys the idea of separation, setting apart, or sanctification. In the Old Testament, qodesh refers to something or someone set apart for a sacred purpose, dedicated to God. Holiness in this sense is the condition of being distinct from the common, profane, or sinful, and it is associated with purity and moral perfection.
Usage: In Leviticus 19:2, "You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy," the word qadosh (holy) is used to describe the moral and spiritual perfection of God, which His people are called to emulate.
Greek Term: ἁγιότης (Hagiotēs) or ἁγιασμός (Hagiasmos)

Root: The Greek term ἅγιος (hagios) means holy, sacred, or set apart. The related noun ἁγιασμός (hagiasmos) refers to the process of sanctification, the act of making or becoming holy. In the New Testament, holiness is not just a static state but an ongoing process of moral and spiritual purification, reflecting God's nature.

In both the Hebrew and Greek concepts, holiness (qodesh/hagios) and righteousness (tzedeq/dikaiosynē) are deeply interconnected. Holiness speaks to the state of being set apart for God, which naturally leads to righteous behavior. Righteousness, particularly in the biblical sense, is not merely about outward actions but flows from a heart that is aligned with God's holiness. The process of sanctification (hagiasmos), or becoming holy, is intrinsically linked with living righteously (dikaiosynē), reflecting God's moral and ethical standards.


Scriptural Evidence:

James 2:17: "In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." Righteousness (doing) is a natural outflow of faith and holiness (being).
Ephesians 2:10: "For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Here, being (created in Christ) leads to doing (good works).
Hebrews 12:14: "Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." This shows that holiness involves active effort, not a passive state.

The interpretation of Revelation 3:15-16 presented in the argument misreads the passage by ignoring the historical and cultural context of Laodicea and the broader scriptural teachings on sanctification. The Bible clearly teaches that spiritual growth is a process, and both righteousness (doing) and holiness (being) are essential aspects of a believer's life. The passage in Revelation addresses spiritual complacency, not the rejection of spiritual progress.

See how you have it backward?--reading INTO the text? You must have a very vivid imagination Which brings to mind you also don't believe in progressive sanctification and probably another advocate for theosis.

J.

Amen, and I think of lukewarm in terms of love having grown cold (lost first love) or never having been hot in the first place....AKA nominalism.

On the subject of what some are calling theosis or higher walk or baptism of fire or entire sanctification or second blessing.....I just have this sense that we haven't got to the bottom of it yet (unless it's just me). Many different people seem to be understanding it in different ways....also evidenced by all those different terms to try and describe the same thing. I think it is Oswald Chambers who said sanctification itself needs to be sanctified. And Paul made a reference to "you who are spiritual".

I'm not even convinced whether it is something to be taught as "doctrine", but might be a matter of growing and being faithful to seek and obey the Lord with whatever each individual is given by God to deal with wherever they are on their individual journey. And who is faithful in a little will be given more. I just don't see this in scripture being taught as doctrine, but might be hidden mannah. There seems to be an aspect of "relativeness" in how God will judge each soul as well. Who has been forgiven much loves much.....the first will be last and the last will be first......could be wrong but it doesn't seem (as far as I can tell) to be like a fixed goal line that we are all judged by the same measure.

 

[Johann]

THE CHRISTIAN’S SANCTIFICATION
In that wonderful prayer of the Lord Jesus Christ, He prayed for His disciples, “Father,
sanctify them through Thy truth, Thy Word is truth.” (John 17:17).
This prayer was uttered before Christ went to the cross and offered Himself without spot
unto God. (Hebrews 9:14).
What is the meaning of the truth in Hebrews 10:10 and 14: “By the which will we are
sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all?” “For by one offering He
hath perfected forever them that are sanctified?”
Christ offered Himself once for all on the cross. Is it true that by that one offering He
hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified? The Word of God says, “Yes.”

The Scriptures state this plainly. Then we must conclude that the believer, who meets
God at Calvary, is sanctified once-for-all, because that “the worshippers once purged should
have no more conscience of sins.” Hebrews 10:2.
This does not mean that the sanctified person (saint) will not be conscious of
imperfections, or consider himself sinless, in word, thought or deed. (I John 1:8 to 10). But before God his defiled conscience is forever cleansed. Such is the efficacy, power and value of the
precious shed blood of the eternal Son of God.
And Hebrews 10:26 does not say that if a person sins after he receives the knowledge of
the truth, there remaineth no more forgiveness of sins. This is explained in Colossians 2:13 and I
John 1:9 and 2:1. But Hebrews 10:26 says, “no more sacrifice for sins.”
“Jesus, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered without the gate.”
(Hebrews 13:12).
“Elect” through sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of
Jesus Christ.” (I Peter 1:2).
The word sanctified, also translated “holy”, means separated by God unto God, for God
the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Every one thus separated is a saint. Some saints do not behave as becometh saints, but no
one becomes a saint by behaving, only by believing. (I Corinthians 1:1 and 2 and 3: and I
Corinthians 6:19 and I Corinthians 6:5 to 7).
Saints are instructed to walk as becometh saints. (Ephesians 5:1 to 4). But they become
saints by grace through faith. (Ephesians 2:8 to 10 - I Corinthians 6:11).
Now let us read and believe II Thessalonians 2:13 and I Corinthians 6:11: “But we are
bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren, beloved of the Lord, because God hath
from the beginning chosen you to salvation through SANCTIFICATION of the Spirit and belief
of the truth.” “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are SANCTIFIED, but ye
are justified in the Name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”
Salvation is the result of believing the truth and God’s work of sanctification of the
believer by the Holy Spirit.
No one is saved who is not first sanctified. In I Corinthians 6:11 note the order, washed,
SANCTIFIED, justified.
The believer is saved without works; but unto good works, in which he should walk
because he is saved. (Ephesians 2:8 to 10).
In such Scriptures as II Corinthians 7:1, as the “twelfth chapter of Romans and the third.
chapter of Colossians and others, saints are exhorted to a holy walk and conversation. But
remember that believing sinners are saved by faith in the crucified and resurrected Christ. Now
read, Hebrews 13:12; “Wherefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own
blood, suffered without the gate.” He suffered to bring sinners to God. (I Peter 3:18). After the
believer is sanctified once-for-all (Hebrews 10:10 to 14) he is called to a life of separation and
service.

https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ONE-HUNDRED-AND-SEVENTY-BIBLE-LESSONS.pdf

 

[Johann]

On the subject of what some are calling theosis or higher walk or baptism of fire or entire sanctification or second blessing.....I just have this sense that we haven't got to the bottom of it yet (unless it's just me). Many different people seem to be understanding it in different ways....also evidenced by all those different terms to try and describe the same thing. I think it is Oswald Chambers who said sanctification itself needs to be sanctified. And Paul made a reference to "you who are spiritual".

I believe we are all continually learning until our Lord Jesus Christ returns. If you're interested, here's a link I'd like you to read.

THE CHRISTIAN’S SANCTIFICATION
In that wonderful prayer of the Lord Jesus Christ, He prayed for His disciples, “Father,
sanctify them through Thy truth, Thy Word is truth.” (John 17:17).
This prayer was uttered before Christ went to the cross and offered Himself without spot
unto God. (Hebrews 9:14).
What is the meaning of the truth in Hebrews 10:10 and 14: “By the which will we are
sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all?” “For by one offering He
hath perfected forever them that are sanctified?”
Christ offered Himself once for all on the cross. Is it true that by that one offering He
hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified? The Word of God says, “Yes.”

The Scriptures state this plainly. Then we must conclude that the believer, who meets
God at Calvary, is sanctified once-for-all, [Theosis?] because that “the worshippers once purged should
have no more conscience of sins.” Hebrews 10:2.
This does not mean that the sanctified person (saint) will not be conscious of
imperfections, or consider himself sinless, in word, thought or deed. (I John 1:8 to 10). But before God his defiled conscience is forever cleansed. Such is the efficacy, power and value of the
precious shed blood of the eternal Son of God.
And Hebrews 10:26 does not say that if a person sins after he receives the knowledge of
the truth, there remaineth no more forgiveness of sins. This is explained in Colossians 2:13 and I
John 1:9 and 2:1. But Hebrews 10:26 says, “no more sacrifice for sins.”
“Jesus, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered without the gate.”
(Hebrews 13:12).
“Elect” through sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of
Jesus Christ.” (I Peter 1:2).
The word sanctified, also translated “holy”, means separated by God unto God, for God
the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Every one thus separated is a saint. Some saints do not behave as becometh saints, but no
one becomes a saint by behaving, only by believing. (I Corinthians 1:1 and 2 and 3: and I
Corinthians 6:19 and I Corinthians 6:5 to 7).

Saints are instructed to walk as becometh saints. (Ephesians 5:1 to 4). But they become
saints by grace through faith. (Ephesians 2:8 to 10 - I Corinthians 6:11).

Now let us read and believe II Thessalonians 2:13 and I Corinthians 6:11: “But we are
bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren, beloved of the Lord, because God hath
from the beginning chosen you to salvation through SANCTIFICATION of the Spirit and belief
of the truth.” “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are SANCTIFIED, but ye
are justified in the Name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”

Salvation is the result of believing the truth and God’s work of sanctification of the
believer by the Holy Spirit.
No one is saved who is not first sanctified. In I Corinthians 6:11 note the order, washed,
SANCTIFIED, justified.

The believer is saved without works; but unto good works, in which he should walk
because he is saved. (Ephesians 2:8 to 10).
In such Scriptures as II Corinthians 7:1, as the “twelfth chapter of Romans and the third.
chapter of Colossians and others, saints are exhorted to a holy walk and conversation. But
remember that believing sinners are saved by faith in the crucified and resurrected Christ. Now
read, Hebrews 13:12; “Wherefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own
blood, suffered without the gate.” He suffered to bring sinners to God. (I Peter 3:18). After the
believer is sanctified once-for-all (Hebrews 10:10 to 14) he is called to a life of separation and
service.

https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ONE-HUNDRED-AND-SEVENTY-BIBLE-LESSONS.pdf

So-together we are on this road reading and studying our Bible and sharing our experiences.

It might behoove you to sometimes look up what the early church fathers wrote on sanctification, theosis, illumination but remember, the Scripture is our primary source sister.
Ditto on your post.
Johann.

 

[Lizbeth]

THE CHRISTIAN’S SANCTIFICATION
In that wonderful prayer of the Lord Jesus Christ, He prayed for His disciples, “Father,
sanctify them through Thy truth, Thy Word is truth.” (John 17:17).
This prayer was uttered before Christ went to the cross and offered Himself without spot
unto God. (Hebrews 9:14).
What is the meaning of the truth in Hebrews 10:10 and 14: “By the which will we are
sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all?” “For by one offering He
hath perfected forever them that are sanctified?”
Christ offered Himself once for all on the cross. Is it true that by that one offering He
hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified? The Word of God says, “Yes.”

The Scriptures state this plainly. Then we must conclude that the believer, who meets
God at Calvary, is sanctified once-for-all, because that “the worshippers once purged should
have no more conscience of sins.” Hebrews 10:2.
This does not mean that the sanctified person (saint) will not be conscious of
imperfections, or consider himself sinless, in word, thought or deed. (I John 1:8 to 10). But before God his defiled conscience is forever cleansed. Such is the efficacy, power and value of the
precious shed blood of the eternal Son of God.
And Hebrews 10:26 does not say that if a person sins after he receives the knowledge of
the truth, there remaineth no more forgiveness of sins. This is explained in Colossians 2:13 and I
John 1:9 and 2:1. But Hebrews 10:26 says, “no more sacrifice for sins.”
“Jesus, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered without the gate.”
(Hebrews 13:12).
“Elect” through sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of
Jesus Christ.” (I Peter 1:2).
The word sanctified, also translated “holy”, means separated by God unto God, for God
the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Every one thus separated is a saint. Some saints do not behave as becometh saints, but no
one becomes a saint by behaving, only by believing. (I Corinthians 1:1 and 2 and 3: and I
Corinthians 6:19 and I Corinthians 6:5 to 7).
Saints are instructed to walk as becometh saints. (Ephesians 5:1 to 4). But they become
saints by grace through faith. (Ephesians 2:8 to 10 - I Corinthians 6:11).
Now let us read and believe II Thessalonians 2:13 and I Corinthians 6:11: “But we are
bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren, beloved of the Lord, because God hath
from the beginning chosen you to salvation through SANCTIFICATION of the Spirit and belief
of the truth.” “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are SANCTIFIED, but ye
are justified in the Name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”
Salvation is the result of believing the truth and God’s work of sanctification of the
believer by the Holy Spirit.
No one is saved who is not first sanctified. In I Corinthians 6:11 note the order, washed,
SANCTIFIED, justified.
The believer is saved without works; but unto good works, in which he should walk
because he is saved. (Ephesians 2:8 to 10).
In such Scriptures as II Corinthians 7:1, as the “twelfth chapter of Romans and the third.
chapter of Colossians and others, saints are exhorted to a holy walk and conversation. But
remember that believing sinners are saved by faith in the crucified and resurrected Christ. Now
read, Hebrews 13:12; “Wherefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own
blood, suffered without the gate.” He suffered to bring sinners to God. (I Peter 3:18). After the
believer is sanctified once-for-all (Hebrews 10:10 to 14) he is called to a life of separation and
service.

https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ONE-HUNDRED-AND-SEVENTY-BIBLE-LESSONS.pdf

Amen. Jesus said we have had the bath...we have been made clean (sanctified) through the word. But there is still the need for ongoing washing of our feet from time to time if we sin at any time or as we encounter and realize shortcomings etc. That is even what the Lord's supper is for and why Jesus talked about the need to let Him wash our feet at that last Passover......to examine ourselves and confess to the Lord and thus receive His atoning sacrifice applied so to speak to whatever in us is needing it. There is power in the Blood! It is a spiritual weapon.

 

[Johann]

Amen. Jesus said we have had the bath...we have been made clean (sanctified) through the word. But there is still the need for ongoing washing of our feet from time to time if we sin at any time or as we encounter and realize shortcomings etc. That is even what the Lord's supper is for and why Jesus talked about the need to let Him wash our feet at that last Passover......to examine ourselves and confess to the Lord and thus receive His atoning sacrifice applied so to speak to whatever in us is needing it. There is power in the Blood! It is a spiritual weapon.

Amen.

John 13:10 - "Jesus answered, 'Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.'"

Jesus speaks about being made clean (sanctified) but emphasizes the ongoing need for foot washing, symbolizing the continuous cleansing needed as believers encounter sin and imperfections.
1 John 1:9 - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

This verse supports the idea of ongoing cleansing and the need to continually bring our shortcomings before the Lord, trusting in His faithfulness to forgive and purify us.
1 Corinthians 11:28-29 - "Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves."

This passage relates to the Lord's Supper, highlighting the importance of self-examination and confession before partaking, to ensure we are rightly aligned with Christ.
Ephesians 5:25-27 - "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless."

This passage reinforces the idea that Christ cleanses His church through His word, a process that continues until we are presented blameless before Him.
Revelation 12:11 - "They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death."

This verse highlights the power of the blood of Jesus as a spiritual weapon, affirming that through His sacrifice, believers have victory over sin and the enemy.
These scriptures together paint a picture of both the initial cleansing we receive through faith in Christ and the ongoing need for spiritual renewal as we continue to live in a fallen world.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes salvation is by faith. That's what some of us around here have been trying to tell you. Not of our own, it's a GIFT.

And neither are we claiming righteousness of our own...for what do we have that we didn't RECEIVE? All glory belongs to God.

Remember Jesus telling His disciples to rejoice rather that their names were written in heaven and why........may we not also humbly and gratefully rejoice in that knowledge? His Spirit witnessing to our spirits that we are the children of God......so yes, we are certain of our salvation......we know and believe it by faith.......as long as we endure to the end and dont' fall away meanwhile, because our race is not finished and we haven't won the crown until the end of our life.



Well we read and understand this, don't we......where Jesus said, "this is the work of God, to believe in him who He has sent." That is what gets us written in the Lamb's book of life. Believers will be judged and assigned a place in heaven......rewarded and/or suffer loss....according to our fruit and works after coming to faith....being careful how we build and obeying the Lord etc. This is not a judgment unto condemnation for the children of God, because those who believe (with faith not of our own) are no longer under condemnation after coming to faith.

Herein lies the problem in large with this church age .
Take notice at her face . Does that face not look very loving , very kind , so caring
BUT IT DONT MEAN one follows GOD .
Many have come within christendom and they too have these huge smiles , these ever so caring appearances
BUT THEY Have come in to bring the churches INTO ANOTHER GOSPEL SISTER .
and this day and age most think if one comes to their church or if their own pastor is big on smiles and seems so caring
THAT THEY JUST MUST KNOW GOD . Many now have come to bring another gospel so called
into christain and worse many are really beginning to heed that other gospel message .
While that false gospel of thiers will speak certain truths , it will then use those certain truths
LIKE for example GOOD WORKS , and twist that into a lie , which implies hey if other religoins and other beleivers
just have love and good works , ALL IS FINE they KNOW GOD TOO . satan is slick sister .
He will have everyone to pick up their own cross , SO LONG as they DONT COME TO HE WHO WAS ON SAID CROSS .
all this is , is mans own ways and merits , self and self righteousness to attain Their own salvation and right standing with GOD .
I see the core of the very root of epis message . and while it does use truths , IT WILL DO SO
to cause a lie to be BELIEVED . I am very worried for this generation sister . very worried and deeply troubled
in my soul for so many who now are heading right into a TRAP .

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen.

John 13:10 - "Jesus answered, 'Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.'"

Jesus speaks about being made clean (sanctified) but emphasizes the ongoing need for foot washing, symbolizing the continuous cleansing needed as believers encounter sin and imperfections.
1 John 1:9 - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

This verse supports the idea of ongoing cleansing and the need to continually bring our shortcomings before the Lord, trusting in His faithfulness to forgive and purify us.
1 Corinthians 11:28-29 - "Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves."

This passage relates to the Lord's Supper, highlighting the importance of self-examination and confession before partaking, to ensure we are rightly aligned with Christ.
Ephesians 5:25-27 - "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless."

This passage reinforces the idea that Christ cleanses His church through His word, a process that continues until we are presented blameless before Him.
Revelation 12:11 - "They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death."

This verse highlights the power of the blood of Jesus as a spiritual weapon, affirming that through His sacrifice, believers have victory over sin and the enemy.
These scriptures together paint a picture of both the initial cleansing we receive through faith in Christ and the ongoing need for spiritual renewal as we continue to live in a fallen world.

Look at how kind and caring that face seems to be my friend . Why what a marvelous smile
and what loving and caring eyes she sure do seem to have .
But that DONT MEAN one follows GOD .
I say that cause for quite a few years and even a couple of decades ,
the church has sat under a lot of these ever smiling faces , that seem so loving and so darn caring
AND YET THEY DECIEVING THEM BIG TIME .
Another gospel has been brought in and it was done so with lots of smiles and ever kind words
and speeches of love and etc . Marvel not if many can indeed have a very caring appearance
seem very loving , seem ever so kind , and YET DO NOT KNOW GOD and are there to DECIEVE .
Now i know christains are to be kind and caring
BUT THEY ALSO supposed to FOLLOW CHRIST , to be grave , sincere, to correct sins and errors within the church and etc .
SO , lets not let the smiles fool us at all . WE TEST THEM , WE DO SO BY THE BIBLE
with the mindset that says , LET GOD BE TRUE BUT EVERY MAN , or woman , A LIAR .
This generation is in double time deadly error my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

I imagine you've already covered this . . .

Romans 4:2-9 KJV
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9) Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

This is plainly stated truth in Scripture. God doesn't repay good works with salvation, plain and simple! Furthermore, the one who works to obtain salvation doesn't.

This false doctrine that so-called episkopos teaches turns people away from God. He works tirelessly against the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Much love!

This face has what a lot of faces in christendom today has .
They both have two things in common .
LOTS of smiles , an ever so kind and loving appearance , BUT NO BIBLICAL DOCTRINE
and if they do use it its only to twist it into another gospel and etc .
But let this be a reminder to us all today . JUST cause a face can appear very kind and to be very loving and caring
IT DONT MEAN said person KNOWS GOD .
SO with that in mind shall we live rather by this motto .
WHEN anyone does speak , teach or say a word , Dont be so quick to beleive just
cause they seem so loving and their words seem to be loving , kind and caring , THAT THEY AINT DECIEVING YA .
Thus the motto is , no matter who speaks , or who stands in ya church
YOU say , LET GOD BE TRUE but every man a liar . AND THUS that means YOU TEST EVERY WORD outta they lips
and you do so BY BIBLE DOCTRINE . LET GOD be true , not every smiling tom dick moe or harry . GOD be TRUE .

 

[Episkopos]

View attachment 49228
Herein lies the problem in large with this church age .
Take notice at her face . Does that face not look very loving , very kind , so caring
BUT IT DONT MEAN one follows GOD .
Many have come within christendom and they too have these huge smiles , these ever so caring appearances
BUT THEY Have come in to bring the churches INTO ANOTHER GOSPEL SISTER .
and this day and age most think if one comes to their church or if their own pastor is big on smiles and seems so caring
THAT THEY JUST MUST KNOW GOD . Many now have come to bring another gospel so called
into christain and worse many are really beginning to heed that other gospel message .
While that false gospel of thiers will speak certain truths , it will then use those certain truths
LIKE for example GOOD WORKS , and twist that into a lie , which implies hey if other religoins and other beleivers
just have love and good works , ALL IS FINE they KNOW GOD TOO . satan is slick sister .
He will have everyone to pick up their own cross , SO LONG as they DONT COME TO HE WHO WAS ON SAID CROSS .
all this is , is mans own ways and merits , self and self righteousness to attain Their own salvation and right standing with GOD .
I see the core of the very root of epis message . and while it does use truths , IT WILL DO SO
to cause a lie to be BELIEVED . I am very worried for this generation sister . very worried and deeply troubled
in my soul for so many who now are heading right into a TRAP .

You and others here are in a trap already. A two-dimensional religious trap that misuses the bible and misquotes the Lord and His apostles...to create a scheme that is based on a lie. You deny one verse to try supporting another...which you have misunderstood. And this happens because your starting point is your own self-justification...not the truth. Whatever you feel doesn't give you an instant religious self-gratification...you reject. So then you can't be instructed. You can only rail at whatever is reducing you from your own lofty ideas about yourself. No humility...no fear of the Lord. And you will say that these are just words I have cleverly taken from the bible that have SOME truth to them. But you are so far off the mark that the very distant sound of the truth has no effect on your inflated religious ego.

Instead of grandstanding and posturing...why not actually use that mind of yours for something other than self-justification. Engage the text. Engage the words from God.

You troll my threads to muddy the water and to get more attention for yourself. And other pretenders will respond...as they have been conditioned to do by the outer man ego. But all you do is further expose your dire need to be crucified and liberated from the worse condition you find yourself in.

Learn to be honest. Learn humility. Learn righteousness. Learn to read. Learn about grace. Learn to fear the Lord.

You have A LOT to learn. So get at it. I'm here to help you out of the mud when you are ready. And that goes for other wallowers here as well. :)

 

[Lizbeth]

Exactly what I've been trying to get you to understand. There is no progressive sanctification. It is a gift. Either one is holy or not.

Salvation is about victory over sin and the world...to walk as Jesus walked. Why do you neglect so great a salvation?


NO. You CLAIM to have a righteousness not your own by a process called "self-justification". You are not engaging enough brain cells here. Don't you think the Pharisees also claimed to have the righteousness of God? Look how many times it says in the OT...their righteousness is of ME.

The difference comes down to what is actually real. Real miraculous walk, real miraculous faith, real miraculous righteousness, real miraculous holiness. All this fully outside the grasp of religious speculators or namers and claimers. All these as gifts...real gifts...not name and claim and assume and presume gifts.

You suggest that you can declare something that is not true as being true...equating yourself with God. Such is the arrogance of your position...just like Pharisees of old...and perhaps much worse.


The knowledge that they were written in heaven? Do you rejoice that people in the past were accepted by God? Or is the presumption of what you esteem yourself to be that euphoric?


Saved, yes, but saved to what end? Read Lev. 16.

That's not biblical. Only those who enter into Christ to abide in Him are immune from condemnation. Many many will be rejected due to a lack of humility and fear of the Lord. Many pretenders will be exposed for having exaggerated their own condition and lying about God's nature and ways. And the pretenders encourage each other in their pretending...smug with self-assurance. For now. There is still time to repent.

You are so wrong-headed about these things Epi. Not to mention a false accuser.

 

[Johann]

Many have come within christendom and they too have these huge smiles , these ever so caring appearances
BUT THEY Have come in to bring the churches INTO ANOTHER GOSPEL SISTER .

Brother-I am a brother, brother.

And Amen-- it’s clear that you're troubled by the proliferation of messages that twist the gospel truth. The Scriptures indeed warn us about such distortions and the dangers they pose.

Paul addresses this very issue in Galatians 1:6-9, where he expresses astonishment that some are turning to a different gospel, which is not really another gospel at all. He warns that if anyone, even an angel from heaven, preaches a gospel different from what was originally preached, they should be accursed. This highlights the severity with which Paul views deviations from the true gospel.

In 2 Corinthians 11:13-15, Paul describes false apostles as deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. He goes further to say that no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. This illustrates how those promoting false doctrines can appear genuine and caring but are fundamentally leading people astray.

Moreover, Matthew 7:15 warns, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." This indicates that appearances can be deceptive, and it's crucial to discern the true nature of teaching, beyond just a pleasant demeanor.

The key issue with the false gospel you mentioned is that it distorts the fundamental truth of salvation through Jesus Christ alone. John 14:6 makes it clear that Jesus is "the way, the truth, and the life," and that no one comes to the Father except through Him. Any message that suggests salvation can be achieved through works, self-righteousness, or other means apart from Christ’s atoning sacrifice is a distortion of the gospel.

Lastly, Ephesians 2:8-9 emphasizes that "by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." This underscores that salvation is a gift from God, not something earned by our own efforts or good deeds.

It’s indeed a troubling time, and your vigilance and concern are important. We are called to hold fast to the truth and be wary of teachings that deviate from the gospel of grace.

Shalom
J.