Making Disciples

[Johann]

Do you mean the part where Jesus says that God did not send His Son to condemn the world? And you are trying to contradict what Jesus said...by a misunderstanding of what He also said. Jesus did not come to call the righteous to repentance...but sinners. The fact that people refuse to believe Him is a phenomenon that exists in the church as well as the world.

Do you mean this--

Scripture References on the World Being Condemned
John 3:17-18:

John 3:17: "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
John 3:18: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."
These verses highlight that the world stands condemned due to unbelief in Jesus, even though Jesus’ mission was to provide salvation.
Romans 8:1:

Romans 8:1: "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
This verse indicates that those who are in Christ are not under condemnation. The implication is that outside of Christ, there remains condemnation due to sin.
Romans 8:20-21:

Romans 8:20: "For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope."
Romans 8:21: "That the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God."
These verses reflect the fallen state of creation, subjected to decay and frustration because of sin, but with the hope of future redemption.
1 John 5:19:

1 John 5:19: "We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one."
This passage indicates that the world is under the influence and control of the evil one, reflecting its condemned state due to sin and rebellion.
2 Peter 2:4-5:

2 Peter 2:4: "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;"
2 Peter 2:5: "If he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;"
These verses discuss the judgment of the ancient world and its condemnation for wickedness, serving as a warning of future judgment.
Revelation 11:18:

Revelation 11:18: "The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
This passage speaks of God’s judgment on the nations and the condemnation of those who have opposed Him.
Summary

These Scriptures collectively convey the concept that the world, due to sin and rebellion, is in a state of condemnation. They highlight the need for salvation through Jesus Christ to escape this condemnation and the future hope of redemption and restoration.

Why are you sitting on @Lizbeth's case? And I can show you many references of ev Jesus Christ and not just eis.

Occurrences of "ἐν Ἰησοῦ" or "ἐν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ" in the Textus Receptus
Acts of the Apostles:

Acts 16:31: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." (Here, "ἐν τῷ Κυρίῳ Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ" refers to being "in the Lord Jesus Christ.")
Epistles (Romans to Philemon):

Romans 8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus." ("ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ")

Romans 16:7: "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me." ("ἐν Χριστῷ")

1 Corinthians 1:2: "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus." ("ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ")

2 Corinthians 5:17: "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature." ("ἐν Χριστῷ")

Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither bond nor free, neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." ("ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ")

Ephesians 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ." ("ἐν Χριστῷ")

Philippians 4:13: "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." ("ἐν Χριστῷ")

Colossians 1:28: "Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus." ("ἐν Χριστῷ")

1 Thessalonians 4:16: "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first." ("ἐν Χριστῷ")

2 Timothy 1:9: "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began." ("ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ")
General Epistles (Hebrews to Jude):

Hebrews 12:2: "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith." (Note: The phrase “in Jesus” isn't used here, but the concept of being in Him is implied in the context of faith.)
Revelation:

Revelation 14:12: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." ("ἐν τῷ πιστεύειν Ἰησοῦ")

No need to sound so scholarly since we are NO scholars-how many times is ev used here?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

No one who is born again, can be rejected by Christ..... as God has become their Father, because Jesus has become their Savior and Eternal life.

Jesus does not reject His Redeemed, His Brethren, His Eternal family..... His "BRIDE".

"but behold, what about that verse that says, "depart from me i never knew you". ???????????????????????????????????????????????

Yeah, thats a favorite of Cross denying Heretics, who can't understand the Forgiveness of God, as Eternal or Free.

So, about that verse....

Jesus said......'i never KNEW YOU">.. = DEPART".

So, how does Jesus KNOW YOU..? = "KNOW you"..???

How does that happen?

It happens when Christ comes to live in the born again believer which causes them to become THE "temple of the Holy Spirit".

So, that is how Christ "KNOWS" those who are HIS....they are His "" BRIDE""....= because He Lives IN THEM, as "Christ IN YOU< the hope of Glory".

What does that mean?
It means that if Christ told a born again Christian to "depart, i never knew you" then He would be telling that to the very born again person in whom Christ RESIDES who is His "Bride"" and His "BODY of Christ'

A.) Not going to happen..

B.), Christ would be lying to tell a Christian He does not "know them" when in Fact, Christ is "IN THEM", and they are "IN Christ",.. they are His '""BRIDE""".. .They are His REDEEMED...... and they are "ONE WITH GOD", having become a SON/Daughter of God.

So, if a HERETIC tells you that a Christian can be told to "depart, i never KNEW YOU".. then just have a good laugh as you are dealing with a Theological pride filled FOOL..

Yes but i know of people who say and demand that they are born again, but the fact is that they are not in fact ! for they do not have Grace, not to mention that they claim that they can make you born again, by just saying words after then, and bingo they have saved you ?
The idiots tryed it on me, i said that i was truly born again before hand but they rejected that i was and tryed this crap on me !
All they damanded of me was to serve their Religion that they would dictate over me ! and lines pulled from the Bible used to back themselves up with, but i knew understanding the Bibles Books better then they did, so they could not pull that old lines off on me.

Not to mention that they know i am a Jew ? but they reject me but idolise the Jews ? they also peddle that the Jews can not be saved, not that they say it that way !

When i say idolise the Jew's ? i mean they have set a place for the Jews ? idolising such but not in a Godly way but a burnt offering way ? For they are only using the Jews for their own ends in fact ! they have no regards the Jews in fact but one would think that they do ! but they are only an ends to a means truly ? for this Mob are the same type of bastards that worked to undermine the Jews all through history ! for as the Bible points out that such as they creept in unawares ! a Toxic Cancer ! that worked to bastardise the real Jews in fact.

I am not surprised at all, because Jesus informes us that this world is Full of Deceptions and Delusions !
So because of this, is why we must come out from them in fact ! ( This world ) why is that ? well for we are for the Kingdom of God ! and when one is truly born again, then you will understand that it's the Kingdom of God that we are. for we expose them of this world ! for we are the of the Light and they are of the darkness !

For they are working so as to create the Kingdom ? but do not want God in it ! that's a fact !
The Serpent wants to creat his own world because he is below everyone, so he works and sets all on his level = to him ! then you will not have a God if you are all equal ? so you can serve other gods in fact ! and make out that you are a hero ! kill your child in the womb and be idolise, for you are now become a hero ! a hero to fools ! period ! depraved !

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes but i know of people who say and demand that they are born again, but the fact is that they are not in fact ! for they do not have Grace, not to mention that they claim that they can make you born again, by just saying words after then, and bingo they have saved you ?
The idiots tryed it on me, i said that i was truly born again before hand but they rejected that i was and tryed this crap on me !
All they damanded of me was to serve their Religion that they would dictate over me ! and lines pulled from the Bible used to back themselves up with, but i knew understanding the Bibles Books better then they did, so they could not pull that old lines off on me.

Not to mention that they know i am a Jew ? but they reject me but idolise the Jews ? they also peddle that the Jews can not be saved, not that they say it that way !

When i say idolise the Jew's ? i mean they have set a place for the Jews ? idolising such but not in a Godly way but a burnt offering way ? For they are only using the Jews for their own ends in fact ! they have no regards the Jews in fact but one would think that they do ! but they are only an ends to a means truly ? for this Mob are the same type of bastards that worked to undermine the Jews all through history ! for as the Bible points out that such as they creept in unawares ! a Toxic Cancer ! that worked to bastardise the real Jews in fact.

I am not surprised at all, because Jesus informes us that this world is Full of Deceptions and Delusions !
So because of this, is why we must come out from them in fact ! ( This world ) why is that ? well for we are for the Kingdom of God ! and when one is truly born again, then you will understand that it's the Kingdom of God that we are. for we expose them of this world ! for we are the of the Light and they are of the darkness !

For they are working so as to create the Kingdom ? but do not want God in it ! that's a fact !
The Serpent wants to creat his own world because he is below everyone, so he works and sets all on his level = to him ! then you will not have a God if you are all equal ? so you can serve other gods in fact ! and make out that you are a hero ! kill your child in the womb and be idolise, for you are now become a hero ! a hero to fools ! period ! depraved !

Being born of the Spirit is a work of the Spirit, not a work of man. "Just say a little prayer" with hands laid on and thus assuming someone is saved and born again that way is no different than the "sacraments" that the non-born again Catholics do that they believe saves them. Who Epi calls our brothers and sisters. (Wonder why he doesn't call non-born again evangelicals our brothers and sisters then, hmmm.) A mere mental belief and using the name of Jesus after a ritual of any kind does not mean one has been inducted into the family of God.....one must have been begotten of Him, of His Spirit.

Regarding the kingdom, I think we're going to find that both unbelieving Jews as well as many Christians who are looking for an earthly utopia are in danger of being caught up together in a delusion that is being formed even as we speak. (Along with Muslims who also are likewise seeking to legislate and enforce morality through Laws.) Jesus was correcting that erroneous belief of the Jews when He said the kingdom of God doesn't come with our careful observation but is within/among His people. It's one reason why they rejected Him as Messiah in the first place because He didn't take up a political/military mantle to free them from Roman pagan oppression. Jesus' weapons were not carnal and He sought only to change hearts, not force people with threat of violence and imprisonment to behave well.

 

[Lizbeth]

Do you mean this--

Scripture References on the World Being Condemned
John 3:17-18:

John 3:17: "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
John 3:18: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."
These verses highlight that the world stands condemned due to unbelief in Jesus, even though Jesus’ mission was to provide salvation.
Romans 8:1:

Romans 8:1: "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
This verse indicates that those who are in Christ are not under condemnation. The implication is that outside of Christ, there remains condemnation due to sin.
Romans 8:20-21:

Romans 8:20: "For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope."
Romans 8:21: "That the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God."
These verses reflect the fallen state of creation, subjected to decay and frustration because of sin, but with the hope of future redemption.
1 John 5:19:

1 John 5:19: "We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one."
This passage indicates that the world is under the influence and control of the evil one, reflecting its condemned state due to sin and rebellion.
2 Peter 2:4-5:

2 Peter 2:4: "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;"
2 Peter 2:5: "If he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;"
These verses discuss the judgment of the ancient world and its condemnation for wickedness, serving as a warning of future judgment.
Revelation 11:18:

Revelation 11:18: "The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
This passage speaks of God’s judgment on the nations and the condemnation of those who have opposed Him.
Summary

These Scriptures collectively convey the concept that the world, due to sin and rebellion, is in a state of condemnation. They highlight the need for salvation through Jesus Christ to escape this condemnation and the future hope of redemption and restoration.

Why are you sitting on @Lizbeth's case? And I can show you many references of ev Jesus Christ and not just eis.

Occurrences of "ἐν Ἰησοῦ" or "ἐν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ" in the Textus Receptus
Acts of the Apostles:

Acts 16:31: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." (Here, "ἐν τῷ Κυρίῳ Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ" refers to being "in the Lord Jesus Christ.")
Epistles (Romans to Philemon):

Romans 8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus." ("ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ")

Romans 16:7: "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me." ("ἐν Χριστῷ")

1 Corinthians 1:2: "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus." ("ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ")

2 Corinthians 5:17: "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature." ("ἐν Χριστῷ")

Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither bond nor free, neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." ("ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ")

Ephesians 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ." ("ἐν Χριστῷ")

Philippians 4:13: "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." ("ἐν Χριστῷ")

Colossians 1:28: "Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus." ("ἐν Χριστῷ")

1 Thessalonians 4:16: "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first." ("ἐν Χριστῷ")

2 Timothy 1:9: "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began." ("ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ")
General Epistles (Hebrews to Jude):

Hebrews 12:2: "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith." (Note: The phrase “in Jesus” isn't used here, but the concept of being in Him is implied in the context of faith.)
Revelation:

Revelation 14:12: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." ("ἐν τῷ πιστεύειν Ἰησοῦ")

No need to sound so scholarly since we are NO scholars-how many times is ev used here?

Amen! Thanks for that brother. Looks like those two little words are often used interchangeably if I'm understanding right.

And John 3:16 also says God so loved THE WORLD that He gave His only Son that WHOSOEVER WOULD BELIEVE ON HIM would never perish but have eternal life. Clearly Jesus was talking about the world in those passages and not just reproving unbelieving Jews as Epi is claiming in order to try and support his doctrine.

 

[Johann]

Amen! Thanks for that brother. Looks like those two little words are often used interchangeably if I'm understanding right.

And John 3:16 also says God so loved THE WORLD that He gave His only Son that WHOSOEVER WOULD BELIEVE ON HIM would never perish but have eternal life. Clearly Jesus was talking about the world in those passages and not just reproving unbelieving Jews as Epi is claiming in order to try and support his doctrine.

Amen sister-correct-you can use ev and eis interchangeably.

3:15-18 "whoever" (John 3:15) "whoever" (John 3:16) "He who" (John 3:18) God's love is an invitation to all mankind (cf. Isa. 55:1-3; Ezek. 18:23,32; John 1:29; 3:16; 6:33,51; 2 Cor. 5:19; 1 Tim. 2:4; 4:10; Titus 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9; 1 John 2:2; 4:14). The offer of salvation is universal, but its acceptance is not!

Epi complicates the clear cut good news still extended to the whole kosmos and praise God for this invitation!

God bless
Johann.

 

[Episkopos]

Being born of the Spirit is a work of the Spirit, not a work of man. "Just say a little prayer" with hands laid on and thus assuming someone is saved and born again that way is no different than the "sacraments" that the non-born again Catholics do that they believe saves them. Who Epi calls our brothers and sisters. (Wonder why he doesn't call non-born again evangelicals our brothers and sisters then, hmmm.)

Not true. I call all who call on the Lord my brethren. It's not for me to decide who is born of God or not. As such I don't disparage the faith of those who are in one denomination or another. Whether Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox...or un-orthodox...I don't judge a person's affiliation as much as their own faith, witness and walk. We will be judged by what we have done, not our belief system.

 

[Lizbeth]

Not true. I call all who call on the Lord my brethren. It's not for me to decide who is born of God or not. As such I don't disparage the faith of those who are in one denomination or another. Whether Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox...or un-orthodox...I don't judge a person's affiliation as much as their own faith, witness and walk. We will be judged by what we have done, not our belief system.

According to scripture...... FAITH has a huge bearing on salvation Epi, not just what we do. Justified by faith and the works that proceed from faith........not by works alone without faith.

 

[Behold]

Yes but i know of people who say and demand that they are born again.

Yes of course.
The world is filled with water baptized religious people who are not born again.
Hell is the same. Its filled with them also..... and more added today.

Not to mention that they know i am a Jew ? but they reject me but idolise the Jews ?

Yes, i know a good deal about that.

 

[Episkopos]

According to scripture...... FAITH has a huge bearing on salvation Epi, not just what we do.

Which salvation? Unto holiness...yes. And it's not about having a bearing on faith...it is by faith. Unto righteousness...it's about what we do. This could be by faith or by works, Our choices.

Justified by faith and the works that proceed from faith........not by works alone without faith.

That's strictly on the righteousness level. James was concerned about people who had neither holiness nor righteousness. Like today.

 

[Johann]

Which salvation? Unto holiness...yes. And it's not about having a bearing on faith...it is by faith. Unto righteousness...it's about what we do. This could be by faith or by works, Our choices.

Salvation is entirely a work of God's grace through faith, not based on our works. The idea that righteousness could be achieved "by works" or that it is dependent on "our choices" contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture.

Salvation by Faith Alone (Not Works):

Ephesians 2:8-9 says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
This passage emphasizes that salvation is a gift from God, received through faith, and not something we earn or achieve by our works.
Righteousness Comes Through Faith, Not Works:

Romans 3:21-22 states, "But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe."
Here, Paul explains that righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ, not through adherence to the law or through our own works.
Philippians 3:9 reinforces this by saying, "and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith."
Righteousness is imputed to us by God through faith in Christ, not through our actions or efforts.
Holiness is a Result of Salvation, Not a Means to It:

1 Peter 1:15-16 instructs believers, "But as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, 'You shall be holy, for I am holy.'"
Holiness is a result of being saved and called by God. It is not a condition for salvation but rather a calling to live in a way that reflects the holiness of God.
Hebrews 12:14 says, "Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."
While holiness is essential, it is the result of God's work in us through the Holy Spirit, not something we achieve to earn salvation.
Works as Evidence of Faith, Not a Means of Earning Righteousness:

James 2:17-18 explains, "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have works.' Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
James is not saying that works save us but rather that true faith will naturally produce good works. Works are the evidence of genuine faith, not the cause of our salvation.
Our Choices and God’s Sovereignty:

Philippians 2:12-13 reminds us, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."
While we are called to live out our salvation, it is ultimately God who works in us, enabling us to will and act according to His purpose.

Salvation, righteousness, and holiness are all aspects of God's work in us, received by faith alone, and not by our works or choices. Works are a natural outflow of genuine faith and the evidence of the transformation that God has wrought in us, but they are not the means by which we attain righteousness or salvation.
J.

 

[Lizbeth]

Salvation is entirely a work of God's grace through faith, not based on our works. The idea that righteousness could be achieved "by works" or that it is dependent on "our choices" contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture.

Salvation by Faith Alone (Not Works):

Ephesians 2:8-9 says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
This passage emphasizes that salvation is a gift from God, received through faith, and not something we earn or achieve by our works.
Righteousness Comes Through Faith, Not Works:

Romans 3:21-22 states, "But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe."
Here, Paul explains that righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ, not through adherence to the law or through our own works.
Philippians 3:9 reinforces this by saying, "and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith."
Righteousness is imputed to us by God through faith in Christ, not through our actions or efforts.
Holiness is a Result of Salvation, Not a Means to It:

1 Peter 1:15-16 instructs believers, "But as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, 'You shall be holy, for I am holy.'"
Holiness is a result of being saved and called by God. It is not a condition for salvation but rather a calling to live in a way that reflects the holiness of God.
Hebrews 12:14 says, "Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."
While holiness is essential, it is the result of God's work in us through the Holy Spirit, not something we achieve to earn salvation.
Works as Evidence of Faith, Not a Means of Earning Righteousness:

James 2:17-18 explains, "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have works.' Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
James is not saying that works save us but rather that true faith will naturally produce good works. Works are the evidence of genuine faith, not the cause of our salvation.
Our Choices and God’s Sovereignty:

Philippians 2:12-13 reminds us, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."
While we are called to live out our salvation, it is ultimately God who works in us, enabling us to will and act according to His purpose.

Salvation, righteousness, and holiness are all aspects of God's work in us, received by faith alone, and not by our works or choices. Works are a natural outflow of genuine faith and the evidence of the transformation that God has wrought in us, but they are not the means by which we attain righteousness or salvation.
J.

Amen. Salvation by works is a Catholic belief...it's nominalism. Even the Jews, God's chosen under the Law, did not obtain what they were seeking for (except for a remnant) because they sought it not by faith, but by trying to establish their own righteousness. Unfortunately what Epi is teaching is not the gospel.

 

[Johann]

Amen. Salvation by works is a Catholic belief...it's nominalism. Even the Jews, God's chosen under the Law, did not obtain what they were seeking for (except for a remnant) because they sought it not by faith, but by trying to establish their own righteousness. Unfortunately what Epi is teaching is not the gospel.

So I have noticed Lizbeth--Catholic belief.
Stay strong in Christ Jesus.
Johann.

 

[Episkopos]

Salvation is entirely a work of God's grace through faith, not based on our works.

False and unbiblical. You are confusing 2 separate judgments. Being saved by grace through faith is into the higher walk of holiness. Otherwise it is based on what we have done with what we have been given. Over-simplication of God's order is to destroy both righteousness and holiness. And this puts people in danger of missing God's mercy altogether.

The idea that righteousness could be achieved "by works" or that it is dependent on "our choices" contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture.

The opposite is true. No one achieves the righteousness of God...it is a gift.

Salvation by Faith Alone (Not Works):

Ephesians 2:8-9 says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
This passage emphasizes that salvation is a gift from God, received through faith, and not something we earn or achieve by our works.
Righteousness Comes Through Faith, Not Works:

Romans 3:21-22 states, "But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe."
Here, Paul explains that righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ, not through adherence to the law or through our own works.
Philippians 3:9 reinforces this by saying, "and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith."
Righteousness is imputed to us by God through faith in Christ, not through our actions or efforts.
Holiness is a Result of Salvation, Not a Means to It:

1 Peter 1:15-16 instructs believers, "But as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, 'You shall be holy, for I am holy.'"
Holiness is a result of being saved and called by God. It is not a condition for salvation but rather a calling to live in a way that reflects the holiness of God.
Hebrews 12:14 says, "Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."
While holiness is essential, it is the result of God's work in us through the Holy Spirit, not something we achieve to earn salvation.
Works as Evidence of Faith, Not a Means of Earning Righteousness:

James 2:17-18 explains, "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have works.' Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
James is not saying that works save us but rather that true faith will naturally produce good works. Works are the evidence of genuine faith, not the cause of our salvation.
Our Choices and God’s Sovereignty:

Philippians 2:12-13 reminds us, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."
While we are called to live out our salvation, it is ultimately God who works in us, enabling us to will and act according to His purpose.

Salvation, righteousness, and holiness are all aspects of God's work in us, received by faith alone, and not by our works or choices. Works are a natural outflow of genuine faith and the evidence of the transformation that God has wrought in us, but they are not the means by which we attain righteousness or salvation.
J.

A total confusion of what righteousness is. You need to start over in Genesis.

 

[Episkopos]

Amen. Salvation by works is a Catholic belief...it's nominalism. Even the Jews, God's chosen under the Law, did not obtain what they were seeking for (except for a remnant) because they sought it not by faith, but by trying to establish their own righteousness. Unfortunately what Epi is teaching is not the gospel.

LOL. There is NO gospel possible without understanding righteousness. You have reduced God's righteousness to something people can do of themselves...thereby destroying both holiness and righteousness. Basically being lawless. What does Jesus say to those who are neither hot (holy) nor cold (righteous)????

I have explained these things for many years in the most simple terms...but people are very dull of hearing.

 

[Episkopos]

For those who don't understand righteousness and are sowing confusion on the thread...all you have to do is replace the word "righteousness" for humility where it comes to people. Of course God's righteousness is based on an eternal selflessness...that is impossible for people to have of themselves, seeing we have not lived for billions of years and holding the universe together.

When we try to establish our own humility...it's obviously NOT humility. A humble person doesn't see himself as being humble. Likewise a righteous man doesn't think himself as being righteous. Only the self-righteous will justify themselves for their beliefs or their works. But most can't comprehend their own ways. They are blind to themselves. These will use the bible as an excuse to justify themselves by claiming to have faith.

Now when a humble person seeks God...he/she can be imputed with humility by God seeing that the person doesn't think he/she is humble. It's only when a person believes they ARE humble that God doesn't.

Same thing for the righteousness of God. Those who claim to have God's righteousness..without the same fruit as Jesus...will be rejected as liars.

Unfortunately the whole modern false gospel scheme requires a person abandons humility and the fear of the Lord. That kind of deviation from the truth should be seen by honest people as being obviously wrong. It is in fact so obviously wrong that those who sell out to a false gospel for the sake of self-preservation are instead guaranteed a bad end. Paul goes so far as to say that they should be cursed... anathema.

But people rail against the truth and are fully confident....with a religious certainty.

 

[Johann]

False and unbiblical. You are confusing 2 separate judgments. Being saved by grace through faith is into the higher walk of holiness. Otherwise it is based on what we have done with what we have been given. Over-simplication of God's order is to destroy both righteousness and holiness. And this puts people in danger of missing God's mercy altogether.

Salvation is by Grace Through Faith Alone (Not by Works):

Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly states, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
This passage directly contradicts the claim that salvation is based on "what we have done with what we have been given." Salvation is not earned or maintained by works, but is entirely a gift of grace through faith in Christ.
Holiness is a Result of Salvation, Not a Means to It:

Titus 2:11-12 says, "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age."

This passage shows that while God's grace teaches us to live holy lives, this holiness is a result of the salvation we have already received, not a prerequisite or a means to obtain it.
Righteousness Comes Through Faith, Not Works:

Romans 3:21-22 states, "But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe."

Righteousness is a gift of God through faith in Christ, not something we achieve by our own efforts. To claim otherwise would indeed be to "over-simplify" and misrepresent God's plan of salvation.
Judgment According to Works Does Not Override Salvation by Faith:

2 Corinthians 5:10 says, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."
While believers will be judged for their works, this judgment is not about determining salvation, but about rewards. Salvation itself is not at stake, as it is secured through faith in Christ alone.

God’s Mercy and Salvation are Not Earned:

Titus 3:5 declares, "He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit."

This verse is indicative that salvation is entirely due to God's mercy, not our works or righteousness. To suggest that we can miss God's mercy by not working enough undermines the very nature of grace and mercy.

The claim that salvation is partly based on what we do with what we have been given, and that it requires a "higher walk of holiness" to avoid missing God's mercy, is unscriptural.
Back to the drawing board with you @Episkopos or humble yourself, repent, and start afresh.

Salvation is entirely a work of God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and while believers are called to live holy lives as a result of their salvation, this holiness is not the basis of their salvation. The Bible teaches that righteousness, salvation, and God's mercy are gifts received through faith, not earned by works. This foundational truth is crucial for understanding the gospel and ensuring that we do not distort God's order of grace.

The opposite is true. No one achieves the righteousness of God...it is a gift.

Poor reading comprehension and not thinking critically and analytically-Miles Coverdale.

A total confusion of what righteousness is. You need to start over in Genesis.

Correct you are--total chaos and confusion, very unfortunate, and pride comes before a fall and the nail that sticks out gets hammered!
You can't steamroll me @Episkopos since you brand of the Besorah is not a Besorah.

2Co 11:4 For if a darshan shows up and preaches another Moshiach, another "Yehoshua" (“Yeshua”) other than the one in our drashot, or if you receive a different "Ruach Hakodesh" from the One you received or a different Besuras HaGeulah from the one regarding which you were mekabel, you put up with that well enough. [Ga 1: 8- 9]

I am not interested in what you are selling.
J.

 

[Episkopos]

Salvation is by Grace Through Faith Alone (Not by Works):

Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly states, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
This passage directly contradicts the claim that salvation is based on "what we have done with what we have been given." Salvation is not earned or maintained by works, but is entirely a gift of grace through faith in Christ.
Holiness is a Result of Salvation, Not a Means to It:

Titus 2:11-12 says, "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age."

This passage shows that while God's grace teaches us to live holy lives, this holiness is a result of the salvation we have already received, not a prerequisite or a means to obtain it.
Righteousness Comes Through Faith, Not Works:

Romans 3:21-22 states, "But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe."

Righteousness is a gift of God through faith in Christ, not something we achieve by our own efforts. To claim otherwise would indeed be to "over-simplify" and misrepresent God's plan of salvation.
Judgment According to Works Does Not Override Salvation by Faith:

2 Corinthians 5:10 says, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."
While believers will be judged for their works, this judgment is not about determining salvation, but about rewards. Salvation itself is not at stake, as it is secured through faith in Christ alone.

God’s Mercy and Salvation are Not Earned:

Titus 3:5 declares, "He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit."

This verse is indicative that salvation is entirely due to God's mercy, not our works or righteousness. To suggest that we can miss God's mercy by not working enough undermines the very nature of grace and mercy.

The claim that salvation is partly based on what we do with what we have been given, and that it requires a "higher walk of holiness" to avoid missing God's mercy, is unscriptural.
Back to the drawing board with you @Episkopos or humble yourself, repent, and start afresh.

Salvation is entirely a work of God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and while believers are called to live holy lives as a result of their salvation, this holiness is not the basis of their salvation. The Bible teaches that righteousness, salvation, and God's mercy are gifts received through faith, not earned by works. This foundational truth is crucial for understanding the gospel and ensuring that we do not distort God's order of grace.

Poor reading comprehension and not thinking critically and analytically-Miles Coverdale.

Correct you are--total chaos and confusion, very unfortunate, and pride comes before a fall and the nail that sticks out gets hammered!
You can't steamroll me @Episkopos since you brand of the Besorah is not a Besorah.

2Co 11:4 For if a darshan shows up and preaches another Moshiach, another "Yehoshua" (“Yeshua”) other than the one in our drashot, or if you receive a different "Ruach Hakodesh" from the One you received or a different Besuras HaGeulah from the one regarding which you were mekabel, you put up with that well enough. [Ga 1: 8- 9]

I am not interested in what you are selling.
J.

You are not interested in what the bible is communicating.

You need to read the bible without the indoctrination. In the passages that follow what is the criteria for being written into the Book of Life??? I will colour in the answer in case your reading comprehension is not up to par (unless you are also colour-blind)

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Who has the honesty AND reading skills to decipher this "hard to understand" narrative??

 

[Johann]

There is NO gospel possible without understanding righteousness. You have reduced God's righteousness to something people can do of themselves...thereby destroying both holiness and righteousness. Basically being lawless. What does Jesus say to those who are neither hot (holy) nor cold (righteous)????

Let's correct that Lol--

Erroneous Statement Breakdown:
"There is NO gospel possible without understanding righteousness."
"You have reduced God's righteousness to something people can do of themselves..."
"Thereby destroying both holiness and righteousness."
"Basically being lawless."
"What does Jesus say to those who are neither hot (holy) nor cold (righteous)????"

Scriptural Correction:
Righteousness is a Gift from God, Not Achieved by Human Effort:

Romans 3:21-22 (Lexham English Bible) states, "But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets—that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

Greek Morphology: δικαιοσύνη (dikaiosynē) - "righteousness"

Explanation: The righteousness of God is revealed χωρὶς νόμου (chōris nomou) - "apart from the law," meaning it is not something that can be earned or achieved through human effort or the law. It is διά πίστεως (dia pisteōs) - "through faith" in Jesus Christ, given to all who believe.

This directly counters the idea that God's righteousness is something people can do of themselves.
Holiness and Righteousness are Results of God’s Work in Us:

Philippians 3:9 (Lexham English Bible): "And may be found in him, not having my righteousness which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith."

Greek Morphology: ἐν αὐτῷ (en autō) - "in Him"--Notice the en auto and not eis auto?

Explanation: Paul emphasizes that true righteousness is τὴν ἐκ θεοῦ δικαιοσύνην (tēn ek theou dikaiosynēn) - "the righteousness from God" and not ἐμὴν δικαιοσύνην (emēn dikaiosynēn) - "my own righteousness." It comes ἐπὶ τῇ πίστει (epi tē pistei) - "on the basis of faith," not from human effort. This counters the claim that God's righteousness is something that can be reduced to human action, which would indeed destroy the biblical understanding of both holiness and righteousness.

Lawlessness and Righteousness:

1 John 3:7 (Lexham English Bible): "Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as that one is righteous."
Greek Morphology: ὁ ποιῶν τὴν δικαιοσύνην (ho poiōn tēn dikaiosynēn) - "the one who practices righteousness"

Righteousness is not lawlessness; rather, it is aligned with God's will. However, it is important to recognize that practicing righteousness is the result of being made righteous by God, not the means to achieve it. This clarifies that while believers are called to live righteously, this is a result of God's work in them, not their own self-made righteousness.

The True Meaning of "Hot" and "Cold":

Revelation 3:15-16 (Lexham English Bible): "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish that you were cold or hot! Thus, because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am about to vomit you out of my mouth!"
Greek Morphology: ψυχρός (psychros) - "cold"; ζεστός (zestos) - "hot"; χλιαρός (chliaros) - "lukewarm"

Explanation: Jesus uses "hot" and "cold" metaphorically to describe spiritual fervor versus apathy. It is not about contrasting holiness and righteousness as YOUR erroneous statement suggests. The context is about the church's lukewarm commitment, not a failure to achieve righteousness or holiness through human effort. This passage highlights the importance of wholehearted commitment to God, not a misguided attempt to earn righteousness.

Your statement is corrected by recognizing that righteousness is not something people can achieve on their own; it is a gift from God received through faith in Jesus Christ. The idea that human effort can produce God's righteousness is a misunderstanding of Scripture. True holiness and righteousness are the results of God's work in the believer, not something that can be reduced to mere human actions. Jesus' words about being "hot" or "cold" refer to spiritual fervor, not a contrast between holiness and righteousness.

I stand before a holy God and shudder when I post-all for His glory and honor @Episkopos no pride--but for some strange reason you feel you must speak in a condescendingly manner to a sister in Christ Jesus.

Get your own brand of whatever you are selling right before even attempting to correct others--confusion rampant in these last days man!

 

[marks]

Salvation, righteousness, and holiness are all aspects of God's work in us, received by faith alone, and not by our works or choices. Works are a natural outflow of genuine faith and the evidence of the transformation that God has wrought in us, but they are not the means by which we attain righteousness or salvation.
J.

I imagine you've already covered this . . .

Romans 4:2-9 KJV
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9) Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

This is plainly stated truth in Scripture. God doesn't repay good works with salvation, plain and simple! Furthermore, the one who works to obtain salvation doesn't.

This false doctrine that so-called episkopos teaches turns people away from God. He works tirelessly against the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I stand before a holy God and shudder when I post-all for His glory and honor @Episkopos no pride--but for some strange reason you feel you must speak in a condescendingly manner to a sister in Christ Jesus.

From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Much love!