Q for JW- KIEW?

[theJW]

Is that because my notion of justice differs from His?

EXACTLY!

 

[face2face]

Yes.

The obvious answer is yes because God cannot be unjust - impossible

However this needs to be unpacked.

I think I've shared this quote with you before? It's one which goes to the heart of His Work in Christ

3:20 For no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God (which is attested by the law and the prophets) has been disclosed—3:22 namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 3:24 But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. 3:25 God publicly displayed him at his death as the mercy seat accessible through faith. This was to demonstrate (declare) his righteousness, because God in his forbearance had passed over the sins previously committed. 3:26 This was also to demonstrate his righteousness in the present time, so that he would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus’ faithfulness Ro 3:20–26.

Do you need me to expound why His Righteosness needed to be declared in Sins flesh?

8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 8:2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he (God) condemned sin in the flesh (Jesus), 8:4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Ro 8:1–4.

God made an open show, a victory over Sins flesh in his Son - God condemned the Law of Sin and Death in the Body of Jesus and in doing so justified all those who are held under the dominion and condemnation of sin.

Hope that helps

F2F

 

[RedFan]

It doesn't, F2F. Not punishing the guilty is not justice, much less "perfect" justice. And punishing an innocent man in lieu of guilty men is not justice, much less "perfect" justice. Both of these pillars of justice toppled at Calvary.

Job 34:11 is the first pillar of justice. The essence of the Christian message -- indeed, confirmed by your quote -- is that Job 34:11 is not true. The just decree of Job 34:11 is out the window.

Ezek. 18:20 is the second pillar of justice. When Moses offered to take the rap for the Golden Calf if God would thereby spare Israel, God turned him down, insisting that the wrongdoers must themselves be punished. Ex. 32:31-35. God's response was "justice." But when Christ “died for our sins,” 1 Cor. 15:3, God went the other way, punishing A for B’s offense. The just decree of Ezek. 18:20 is out the window.

You say "God cannot be unjust -- impossible." But as we human reckon justice, He can be. And He is. (Believe me, I'm not complaining! His straying from these pillars of justice is the only way I will be saved!) God's plan for the salvation of Christians is not "justice." Call it "mercy." Call it "love." But how can we call it "justice?" God's notion of "justice" must be different from ours in order to call what He did "justice."

 

[theJW]

That's the appeal of Churchianity's teaching!
Ones view that the criminal (say a rapist) could be paid back in full!
How would the 3 Gods DO it?
(Obscene thoughts would convince them!)

God just ENDS it.

 

[Keiw]

But you do not know who JESUS the SAVIOR is......

I know my king well.

 

[David in NJ]

I know my king well.

Yes, you know you king = for sure


FYI = The name of your king is not the LORD Jesus Christ

 

[David in NJ]

That's the appeal of Churchianity's teaching!
Ones view that the criminal (say a rapist) could be paid back in full!
How would the 3 Gods DO it?
(Obscene thoughts would convince them!)

God just ENDS it.

How did God "End it"???

 

[PS95]

I know my king well.

With all due respect Keiw- how is that possible when JWS say you are --

NOT BORN AGAIN
ARE NOT IN THE NEW COVENANT
JESUS IS NOT YOUR MEDIATOR
NOT A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST
JESUS DID NOT DIE FOR THEIR SINS
NOT DECLARED RIGHTEOUS
DO NOT BELONG TO CHRIST
NOT BRANCHES OF THE TRUE VINE
DO NOT CRY OUT "ABBA FATHER"
NOT ANNOINTED SONS OF GOD
NOT HEIRS WITH CHRIST
NOT BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT
NOT BAPTIZED INTO JESUS' DEATH
NOT FREED FROM BEING SLAVES TO SIN
NOT SPIRITUAL CHILDREN OF GOD
NOT PARTAKERS OF HIS FLESH & BLOOD
NOT PARTAKERS OF COMMUNION
NOT UNITED WITH JESUS IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH etc.....

Dont you know that you need to Know Him on His terms, ABOVE- not your own?

 

[Keiw]

Yes, you know you king = for sure


FYI = The name of your king is not the LORD Jesus Christ

Jesus is my only king. Jesus was never-LORD--he is Lord--see you are the one who doesn't know him.

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus is my only king. Jesus was never-LORD--he is Lord--see you are the one who doesn't know him.

SEE = your own words PROVE that you do not KNOW the LORD

Since Salvation is a Person, God has declared that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD..................

This is how you come to KNOW the LORD = thru the PERSON who is the LORD = YESHUA the MESSIAH

 

[Jack]

All who die go to Sheol=Hades=Hell=the grave.

That's a Governing Body LIE! Why do JW's avoid Scripture like POISON?

 

[Berean]

I know my king well.

How do you know Him if you're NOT spirit-begotten?

 

[Berean]

That's a Governing Body LIE! Why do JW's avoid Scripture like POISON?

That's not true, they have their own Kool-Aid

 

[Jack]

That's not true, they have their own Kool-Aid

Yeah, their own POISON, leading people to Hell fire!

 

[Jack]

That is simply in the Bible.
You a sadist?
We ALL die.
A days coming when we will be RESURRECTED- due to Jesus' sacrifice.

And BILLIONS will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire!

 

[face2face]

It doesn't, F2F. Not punishing the guilty is not justice, much less "perfect" justice. And punishing an innocent man in lieu of guilty men is not justice, much less "perfect" justice. Both of these pillars of justice toppled at Calvary.

Job 34:11 is the first pillar of justice. The essence of the Christian message -- indeed, confirmed by your quote -- is that Job 34:11 is not true. The just decree of Job 34:11 is out the window.

Curious why you would be quoting from Elihu’s Second Speech?

For he (God) repays a person for his work, and according to the conduct of a person, he causes the consequences to find him Job 34:11.

To mean, God will allow a man to allow the consequences of his actions to find him. An example of this would be a person who rejects the Gospel can expect to remain in the grave forever, never to be remembered. The positive, if a person has faith and allows God to work through them, they can expect to receive God's Justice/Reward. God's Justice is upheld in both scenarios.

Ezek. 18:20 is the second pillar of justice. When Moses offered to take the rap for the Golden Calf if God would thereby spare Israel, God turned him down, insisting that the wrongdoers must themselves be punished. Ex. 32:31-35. God's response was "justice." But when Christ “died for our sins,” 1 Cor. 15:3, God went the other way, punishing A for B’s offense. The just decree of Ezek. 18:20 is out the window.

The person who sins is the one who will die. A son will not suffer for his father’s iniquity, and a father will not suffer for his son’s iniquity; the righteous person will be judged according to his righteousness, and the wicked person according to his wickedness Eze 18:20.

Correct, the wages of sin is death - this is God's Justice placed upon His Laws - if you transgress His Laws you sin and earn death

6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Ro 6:23.

The next part of Ezek 18:20 speaks of the responsibility we have to our own sins - we suffer for our own sins! And we will be judge accordingly.

You say "God cannot be unjust -- impossible." But as we human reckon justice, He can be. And He is. (Believe me, I'm not complaining! His straying from these pillars of justice is the only way I will be saved!) God's plan for the salvation of Christians is not "justice." Call it "mercy." Call it "love." But how can we call it "justice?" God's notion of "justice" must be different from ours in order to call what He did "justice."

The entire Bible Story is a revelation of Divine grace which triumphs over justice (that is condemnation) by extending mercy to the those found to be in Christ.

If you believe God was in Christ reconciling us back to Him then you must account this work as Just (i.e right!)

Righteouness and Justice are closely related themes!

The work of God was this "But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

How he did this: God publicly displayed Jesus at his death as the mercy seat accessible through faith.

Why did He do this: This was to demonstrate his righteousness (divine Justice), because God in his forbearance had passed over the sins previously committed Rom 3:24–25.

So how is God Divine Justice communcated to us in Christ?

8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 8:2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 8:4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Ro 8:1–4.

There was no other way in which God could:

1. Condemn sin other than in the body of His Son
2. Righteously remove the death's dominion than through an obedient Son / Sacrifice
3. Save men from being under a Law which constantly condemned them to death

In every sense of the Word, God was able to uphold His Righteouness and Justice in the life, death and resurrection of his Son.

F2F

 

[Jack]

Curious why you would be quoting from Elihu’s Second Speech?

For he (God) repays a person for his work, and according to the conduct of a person, he causes the consequences to find him Job 34:11.

To mean, God will allow a man to allow the consequences of his actions to find him. An example of this would be a person who rejects the Gospel can expect to remain in the grave forever, never to be remembered. The positive, if a person has faith and allows God to work through them, they can expect to receive God's Justice/Reward. God's Justice is upheld in both scenarios.



The person who sins is the one who will die. A son will not suffer for his father’s iniquity, and a father will not suffer for his son’s iniquity; the righteous person will be judged according to his righteousness, and the wicked person according to his wickedness Eze 18:20.

Correct, the wages of sin is death - this is God's Justice placed upon His Laws - if you transgress His Laws you sin and earn death

6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Ro 6:23.

The next part of Ezek 18:20 speaks of the responsibility we have to our own sins - we suffer for our own sins! And we will be judge accordingly.


The entire Bible Story is a revelation of Divine grace which triumphs over justice (that is condemnation) by extending mercy to the those found to be in Christ.

If you believe God was in Christ reconciling us back to Him then you must account this work as Just (i.e right!)

Righteouness and Justice are closely related themes!

The work of God was this "But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

How he did this: God publicly displayed Jesus at his death as the mercy seat accessible through faith.

Why did He do this: This was to demonstrate his righteousness (divine Justice), because God in his forbearance had passed over the sins previously committed Rom 3:24–25.

So how is God Divine Justice communcated to us in Christ?

8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 8:2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 8:4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Ro 8:1–4.

There was no other way in which God could:

1. Condemn sin other than in the body of His Son
2. Righteously remove the death's dominion than through an obedient Son / Sacrifice
3. Save men from being under a Law which constantly condemned them to death

In every sense of the Word, God was able to uphold His Righteouness and Justice in the life, death and resurrection of his Son.

F2F

Hell will be filled with people who will wish they didn't exist!

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Jack]

The last words unbelievers will hear from Jesus:

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[David in NJ]

View attachment 49225

The last words unbelievers will hear from Jesus:

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

And people are laughing at this???

 

[Keiw]

SEE = your own words PROVE that you do not KNOW the LORD

Since Salvation is a Person, God has declared that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD..................

This is how you come to KNOW the LORD = thru the PERSON who is the LORD = YESHUA the MESSIAH

Jesus is never called LORD all capitols-YHVH(Jehovah) is. Jesus is called Lord.