When was the A.O.D fulfilled?

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is not a reinterpretation…

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;

That is talking about sinning willfully, not slipping up by unwillingly giving in to the desires of the flesh. Paul talked about unwillful sin in Romans 7:14-25 and you act as if there is no such thing. But, those verses you quoted are talking about willful, unrepentant, rebellious sin like is talked about here:

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If all sin was willful, as you seem to believe, then why did Paul (I believe he wrote Hebrews) say "if we sin willfully..."? What would be the point of adding the word "willfully" there if all sin was willful? There would be no point to that. So, there is a reason why he used that word there. It was to differentiate it from unwillful sin.

Again, we know that not all sin is willful as Paul taught in Romans 7:14-25 where he indicated that it's possible to do what you don't want to do and he said it's sin in you doing that in that case. It's your flesh warring against your mind and desires. I am not making an excuse for sin here as I'm sure you are thinking. I'm saying we can want to do what is right and not want to sin and make the effort to submit to the Holy Spirit so that we don't sin, but it's ridiculous to think we will do that perfectly at literally all times. That's why John said in 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us". If we do slip up and sin unwillfully and confess it, then God is faithful and just and will forgive us (1 John 1:9).

 

[grafted branch]

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;

What about the Lord’s Prayer? In Luke 11:4 it says forgive us our sins, is this prayer not meant for people who are born of God?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What about the Lord’s Prayer? In Luke 11:4 it says forgive us our sins, is this prayer not meant for people who are born of God?

Yes, it is. Just another reason why his sinless perfection as a requirement for salvation doctrine is false.

 

[rwb]

The word of God say they are in their graves.
The word of God does not say they are sitting on the throne of God.

John ,5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Is there something about the resurection of the dead that you do not understand?

You believe the dead are not in their graves when scripture plainly says they are?

Only the natural body of mankind after death is in the grave. Do you NOT believe that all of mankind, in fact every living breathing creature upon the earth also has a spirit? It is the spirit in man that quickens or makes us alive, and the flesh is destined to die. So, when Christ tells us whosoever lives and believes in Him shall never die, what part of man shall never die if not man's spirit indwelt with the Spirit of Christ?

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

How does the spirit of man through the Holy Spirit of Christ within them continue to be alive after our body of flesh & bone has died? If the spirit of man of faith does not continue to be alive after our body is dead and buried, why does Christ repeatedly tell us all we need do is believe in Him to be made alive forever?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

What about the Lord’s Prayer? In Luke 11:4 it says forgive us our sins, is this prayer not meant for people who are born of God?

I never said saints cannot sin. One of the biggest end time prophecies is the falling away from the faith. If a saint can fall way from the faith, they can also sin.

 

[rwb]

"The hour is coming when all that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God..."

I can't understand why the Immortal Soul crowd can read this and yet continue to insist the dead are anywhere else but the grave sleeping "the sleep of death" and awaiting resurrection.

We believe Christ when He tells us that if we live and believe in Him, we shall NEVER die. We MUST separate that which is destined to die; i.e the natural, mortal, body of flesh, from that which is made alive forever through Christ's Spirit within us. Man is comprised of both a natural body destined to die, but also a spirit that shall never die IF we believe in Christ. Man was created with a natural body, and God's Spirit breathed into him physical life. This man, God called a "living soul." Because wherever life is found, whether physical life, or spiritual life, it is a living soul. To be a living soul means to possess life, even after our body is dead and buried, and this life does not come naturally, but is supernatural life that only the Spirit of God shall give to whosoever lives and believes!

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I never said saints cannot sin. One of the biggest end time prophecies is the falling away from the faith. If a saint can fall way from the faith, they can also sin.

Beware of the snakes in this forum, they always try to misrepresent the words of God and the words of those they disagree with.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I never said saints cannot sin. One of the biggest end time prophecies is the falling away from the faith. If a saint can fall way from the faith, they can also sin.

Is it not your belief that a saint has immediately fallen away if they sin even one time as if salvation is not actually by grace through faith and not by works as scripture teaches? That is how you come across. Here's your chance to clarify that if that isn't what you actually believe.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Beware of the snakes in this forum, they always try to misrepresent the words of God and the words of those they disagree with.

So nice that you don't even allow for the possibility that someone may unintentionally misunderstand what you're saying. It always is intentional in your mind. You are paranoid.

 

[grafted branch]

I never said saints cannot sin. One of the biggest end time prophecies is the falling away from the faith. If a saint can fall way from the faith, they can also sin.

Well from 1 John 5:18 people who are born of God sinneth not. If the falling away is the saints sining then the saints aren’t born of God, right?

I’m not sure I understand your position, are there two different classes of believers, saints and those born of God?

 

[rwb]

Well from 1 John 5:18 people who are born of God sinneth not. If the falling away is the saints sining then the saints aren’t born of God, right?

I’m not sure I understand your position, are there two different classes of believers, saints and those born of God?

I'm inclined to believe those who fall away from THE faith are of these:

1 John 2:18 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:19 (KJV) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

It's not as if they were of THE faith of Christ, but have always been liars and deceivers, wolves in sheep's clothing. Just as in the beginning of the universal church on earth, we're warned of certain which "went out from us". We are warned not to be troubled words used to subvert the souls. Just as these in the beginning used the Old Covenant Law to confuse and deceive some, so too many have come, are coming, and shall always be with believers, will be twisting/wresting the Word of God trying to once again subvert the souls of the faithful.

Acts 15:24 (KJV) Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Well from 1 John 5:18 people who are born of God sinneth not. If the falling away is the saints sining then the saints aren’t born of God, right?

I’m not sure I understand your position, are there two different classes of believers, saints and those born of God?

As long as they Abide in Christ and Christ Abides in them then they will not sin. But if they turn from the faith, and do not Abide in Christ then they will wither and die.

John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[grafted branch]

I'm inclined to believe those who fall away from THE faith are of these:

1 John 2:18 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:19 (KJV) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

It's not as if they were of THE faith of Christ, but have always been liars and deceivers, wolves in sheep's clothing. Just as in the beginning of the universal church on earth, we're warned of certain which "went out from us". We are warned not to be troubled words used to subvert the souls. Just as these in the beginning used the Old Covenant Law to confuse and deceive some, so too many have come, are coming, and shall always be with believers, will be twisting/wresting the Word of God trying to once again subvert the souls of the faithful.

Acts 15:24 (KJV) Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

I agree with you on this. There certainly were some people during the first century that were attempting to persuade new covenant believers to follow to old covenant requirements.

Perhaps those that “went out from us” were people who initially accepted Jesus as the Messiah but later decided to reject Him and go back to the old covenant.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

So nice that you don't even allow for the possibility that someone may unintentionally misunderstand what you're saying. It always is intentional in your mind. You are paranoid.

I’ve been here long enough to see that you intentionally try to misrepresent others positions, this is a very deceitful practice. That is why I quit responding to your posts.

When you try to intentionally misrepresent others positions you are bearing false witness against that person. You need to Repent!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I’ve been here long enough to see that you intentionally try to misrepresent others positions, this is a very deceitful practice.

Absolutely false. You need to step down from the pedestal you have put yourself on that only belongs to God. Only He can discern people's hearts and motives. And I do NOT purposely misrepresent any others positions. Do you ever consider that people can mistakenly misunderstand someone or that you might not always be perfectly clear in what you're saying?

That is why I quit responding to your posts.

Oh, really....? Hmmm. What is it that you responded to here? LOL. I have no interest in talking to someone who condemns people without even knowing who they are as if you think you are God.

When you try to intentionally misrepresent others positions you are bearing false witness against that person. You need to Repent!

I don't try to do that. You are lying. Quit pretending that you are God and know people's motives because you don't. You need to repent of trying to do God's job for Him.

 

[grafted branch]

As long as they Abide in Christ and Christ Abides in them then they will not sin. But if they turn from the faith, and do not Abide in Christ then they will wither and die.

John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

I don’t want to debate free will vs elect because that type of argument never ends, but I’m curious, do you believe in free will? Can someone “born of God” use their free will to sin or does someone “born of God” not have the free will to sin?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I don’t want to debate free will vs elect because that type of argument never ends, but I’m curious, do you believe in free will? Can someone “born of God” use their free will to sin or does someone “born of God” not have the free will to sin?

God does choose His elect, but we have to abide, endure, and overcome. One can choose to depart from the faith, but God knows beforehand who will depart and who will remain.

 

[tailgator]

Only the natural body of mankind after death is in the grave. Do you NOT believe that all of mankind, in fact every living breathing creature upon the earth also has a spirit? It is the spirit in man that quickens or makes us alive, and the flesh is destined to die. So, when Christ tells us whosoever lives and believes in Him shall never die, what part of man shall never die if not man's spirit indwelt with the Spirit of Christ?

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

How does the spirit of man through the Holy Spirit of Christ within them continue to be alive after our body of flesh & bone has died? If the spirit of man of faith does not continue to be alive after our body is dead and buried, why does Christ repeatedly tell us all we need do is believe in Him to be made alive forever?

Apparently the ears are in the grave because them that are in the grave hear his voice and are resurected.
Jesus doesn't say anyone will hear him.in the sky and come forth out of the sky.

John 5:28
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[The Light]

Oh I am watching

when the roman empire reforms, and a leader from hat empire stands in the Holy Place. I will know it is fulfilled

The Roman empire will reform, but the Antichrist is not Roman, nor will he be the head of the Roman empire.

 

[rwb]

Apparently the ears are in the grave because them that are in the grave hear his voice and are resurected.
Jesus doesn't say anyone will hear him.in the sky and come forth out of the sky.

John 5:28
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

If God can give dead ears the ability to hear what makes you think He cannot bring back with Him the spirit that ascended to heaven after the body died?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.