When was the A.O.D fulfilled?

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Phoneman777

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LOL. Total nonsense. Did you forget that I'm neither a preterist nor a futurist? You said yourself that there are Jesuit futurists and Jesuit preterists. I am neither. Your lies do nothing but reveal that you are a liar. There are other beliefs besides Catholicism and Protestantism just as there are other beliefs besides futurism and preterism. To act as if the truth can't be found outside of the man-made belief systems of Catholicism and Protestantism is just as ridiculous as someone trying to say that the truth can't be found outside of futurism or preterism.
Are you so naive as to think you can climb on here and ignore Rome's Counter-Reformation in which they invented the diversionary tactic lies of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism to counter the truth of Protestant Historicism that exposed papal Rome as all the above - of which you'd be aware if you looked beyond your own narrow, convoluted ideas?

YOU'RE WAITING FOR A FUTURE MAN OF SIN THAT JESUITS INVENTED OVER 300 YEARS AGO.
Jesus said that to the Saduccees who not only didn't believe in the resurrection of the dead, but also, like you, didn't believe that people had any consciousness at all after physical death. They, and you, are wrong! Jesus proved them wrong by saying that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob because He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
He said that to prove the coming resurrection, not Immortal Soul doctrine you scraped off the top of "the Roman dunghill of decretals".

Once again, you're in agreement with Jesuit doctrine and oppose Protestant truth, you Jesuit.
In your doctrine, God is not currently the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob because you foolishly say they are not alive in any way.
Job didn't expect to be awakened until the resurrection, so will you accuse Job of denying God is the "God of the living"? This same Job says when a man dies, he neither knows nor perceives whether his sons rise to filthy riches or wind up digging ditches...Nay, Job, go to master Spiritual Israelite and learn a new Jesuit way!
But, He IS their God right now because they are alive spiritually!
Because He has promised to raise us from the dead, but the dead are not yet raised! David's not raised!
Jesus refuted that belief of the Saduccees and also refuted their belief that there is no resurrection in the process because if they are still alive now, as Jesus indicated they are, then there's no reason to think they won't ever be bodily resurrected. They did not cease to exist upon physical death as the Saduccees believed and Jesus refuted that and refuted their belief that there won't be a resurrection at the same time.
I ask you the same thing Tyndale asked the catholic fool Sir Thomas More:

"If the souls be in heaven, in as great glory as the angels, after your doctrine, master More (and you too, master Spiritual Israelite), show me what cause there should be of the resurrection?”​
A "celestial fashion show"?
A "righteous runway ramble"?
A "cosmic costume cotillion"?

It's simply the height of absurdity to claim that the sole purpose of the resurrection is so "disembodied souls running around naked since death enjoying every bit of all that heaven has to offer" can finally put on their designer label resurrection clothes.
 

Phoneman777

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LOL. As if he doesn't know which post he avoided. You even said it was your "last post". How hard is it for him to just look at your last post to him to see which one you were talking about? LOL. The dishonesty of so many people on here is truly unbelievable.
It's not dishonest to ask for clarification.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Are you so naive as to think you can climb on here and ignore Rome's Counter-Reformation in which they invented the diversionary tactic lies of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism to counter the truth of Protestant Historicism that exposed papal Rome as all the above - of which you'd be aware if you looked beyond your own narrow, convoluted ideas?

YOU'RE WAITING FOR A FUTURE MAN OF SIN THAT JESUITS INVENTED OVER 300 YEARS AGO.
LOL!!!!!!!!! Keep digging that hole deeper if you insist on making a complete fool of yourself. I said I am NOT a preterist or a futurist. Can you not read? I am NOT waiting for a future man of sin. What other lies do you want to tell about me while making a total fool of yourself?

Once again, you're in agreement with Jesuit doctrine and oppose Protestant truth, you Jesuit.
So, there are Jesuit idealists now? I thought you said there are Jesuit preterists and Jesuit futurists. Now there are Jesuit idealists as well? LOL. Keep on making a fool of yourself if you insist. I can't stop you from doing that, obviously.

Job didn't expect to be awakened until the resurrection, so will you accuse Job of denying God is the "God of the living"?
He was talking about his body. You make no differentiation between the body, soul and spirit and that's why you are blinded by Seventh Day Adventist false doctrine.

This same Job says when a man dies, he neither knows nor perceives whether his sons rise to filthy riches or wind up digging ditches...Nay, Job, go to master Spiritual Israelite and learn a new Jesuit way!

Because He has promised to raise us from the dead, but the dead are not yet raised! David's not raised!
Is God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob right now? Yes or no? Put your money where you mouth is and answer this question.

I ask you the same thing Tyndale asked the catholic fool Sir Thomas More:

"If the souls be in heaven, in as great glory as the angels, after your doctrine, master More (and you too, master Spiritual Israelite), show me what cause there should be of the resurrection?”​
A "celestial fashion show"?
A "righteous runway ramble"?
A "cosmic costume cotillion"?

It's simply the height of absurdity to claim that the sole purpose of the resurrection is so "disembodied souls" running around naked since death enjoying every bit of all that heaven has to offer can finally put their designer label resurrection clothes on.
Do you have a statue of William Tyndale in your house that you bow down to every day? This reflects why you are deceived by false doctrine. You put man on a pedestal where he doesn't belong. Both Tyndale and More are fools who believed in false doctrines. Acting as if either of them had all the answers reveals your false idol worship of fallible man.
 

Stewardofthemystery

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Then why don't you answer the question. Have you lived a sinless life since you have been born again or have you taken what you call the mark of the beast by committing a sin?

Remember what God said about anyone who takes this mark:

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Because I know the tactics of the enemy. The sinner says “because I live in sin the words of God can’t be true”.
 

Phoneman777

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The post you fudged around.
What post #? Because if it's the post I think you're referring to, you didn't answer a single point, such as how making Rich Man/Lazarus a literal story causes so many Bible contradictions. Of course, Spiritual Israelite refuses to explain how "disembodied souls" have tongues, eyes, fingers, bosoms, etc.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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What post #? Because if it's the post I think you're referring to, you didn't answer a single point, such as how making Rich Man/Lazarus a literal story causes so many Bible contradictions. Of course, Spiritual Israelite refuses to explain how "disembodied souls" have tongues, eyes, fingers, bosoms, etc.
Are you purposely being obtuse? It was his last post to you before the one where he said it was his last post. Good grief.

As for what you said about me, did you not see where I said figurative text does not automatically make a passage a parable? If that was what made something a parable there would be hundreds or maybe thousands of parables in scripture. Just because the rich man's torment is described figuratively does not mean he isn't actually experiencing torment in a real place called hell (hades). Do you deny the existence of hell? Parables do not contain descriptions of real places and real people like Luke 16:19-31 does. Why can't you get that through your head?

Do you believe that God is Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's God right now?
 

Eternally Grateful

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You said: first think…The difference between “a destruction of a temple” and “an abomination which causes the temple to be desolate”…

? Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, You shall not see me, until the time come when you shall say, Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord.

how does every eye shall see Him …it’s presented that because of computer capabilities (I don’t know if you said this but I’ve heard because of computers now every eye can see him) …yet He said you shall not see me until you say “blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord.” Does that mean …there must be computers with capabilities to see him …or… you must say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord? Which is necessary in every eye shall see him, I wonder?
it means they will nto see a Jesus until the repent.

and at that time we are told he will return to Jerusalem and them

not sure where the computers come in
 

Phoneman777

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LOL!!!!!!!!! Keep digging that hole deeper if you insist on making a complete fool of yourself. I said I am NOT a preterist or a futurist. Can you not read? I am NOT waiting for a future man of sin. What other lies do you want to tell about me while making a total fool of yourself?
He says he's not a Jesuit Futurist, but follows Jesuit Futurism's future arrival of the Man of Sin - got it.
So, there are Jesuit idealists now? I thought you said there are Jesuit preterists and Jesuit futurists. Now there are Jesuit idealists as well? LOL. Keep on making a fool of yourself if you insist. I can't stop you from doing that, obviously.
Not sure what you're talking about. There's only Jesuit Preterists, Jesuit Futurists, and Protestant Historicists, the 3 main eschatological schools of thought.
He was talking about his body.
Do all of your doctrines rest upon subjective reasoning? You can't show me a single verse where Solomon or Job says "dead body" but I can show you tons where they refer to the "dead" - which refers to the entire creature, not just the "body".
You make no differentiation between the body, soul and spirit and that's why you are blinded by Seventh Day Adventist false doctrine.
Seventh-day Adventists are the only people who not only properly differentiate between Body, Spirit and Soul, but we demonstrate how inconsistently you guys interpret the same:

Body + Breath = Living Soul comes into existence
Body - Breath = Living Soul goes out of existence

Bible tells you God only hath immortality and that he gives it only to those who "seek" for it - yet, you choose to believe the Serpent's lie that we have innate immortality, saying: "Thou shalt not surely die".
Is God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob right now? Yes or no? Put your money where you mouth is and answer this question.
Paul also says the saved "are sit down in heavenly places" with Jesus - are you sitting there now?

God, Who isn't bound by space and time, often speaks of things that aren't as though they were.

God is the God of the living because He doesn't consider sleeping saints "dead" - He's gonna wake em up.
Do you have a statue of William Tyndale in your house that you bow down to every day?
No.
This reflects why you are deceived by false doctrine. You put man on a pedestal where he doesn't belong. Both Tyndale and More are fools who believed in false doctrines. Acting as if either of them had all the answers reveals your false idol worship of fallible man.
I put their arguments on a pedestal so the deceived will be without excuse in the Day of Judgment.
 
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ReChoired

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Regardless of whether or not the spirit of a person has consciousness in heaven, scripture is clear that a person's soul does have consciousness there.
...

Do you believe that God is currently the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? If so, then you would need to acknowledge that they are currently alive because God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (Matt 22:32). ...
QUESTION: DIDN’T JESUS SAY THAT GOD WAS THE “GOD OF THE LIVING” AND NOT THE DEAD, DOESN’T THAT MEAN THAT THEY ARE ALIVE IN HEAVEN?

No, Jesus was referring to the resurrection (“as touching the dead, that they rise”, “they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead”, “that the dead are raised”, “for all live unto him”; Matthew 22:28-33; Mark 12:23-27; Luke 20:33-39), in that those who are dead in the first death, sleep in the grave, until their resurrection, for they haven’t suffered the second death (Revelation 2:11, 20:6,14, 21:8; Jude 1:12; 2 Corinthians 1:10), from which there is no return, or resurrection, or life (spiritually & physically).

Mat 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.​
Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.​
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.​
Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,​
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.​
Mat 22:33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.​
 

ReChoired

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Regardless of whether or not the spirit of a person has consciousness in heaven, scripture is clear that a person's soul does have consciousness there.

... Were Moses and Elijah unconscious and just talking in their sleep when they were talking to Jesus at His transfiguration?
QUESTION: ARE THERE ANY PERSONS OF MANKIND IN HEAVEN, AT ALL?

Yes, but they were either “translated” alive (not dead) and glorified, or resurrected (made alive) and glorified and taken up or ascended.

[1.] Enoch (translated alive & glorified; Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5),​
[2.] Moses (resurrected & glorified; Numbers 20:8-12, 27:13, 31:2; Deuteronomy 4:21-22, 31:2,14,16, 32:51-52, 34:1-8; 1 Samuel 2:6; Matthew 22:32; John 11:25-26; Matthew 17:1-12; Mark 9:1-13; Luke 9:27-36; 2 Peter 1:16; Romans 5:14; Jude 1:9),​
[3.] Elijah (translated & glorified; 2 Kings 2:1-12),​
[4.] ‘firstfruits’ around Jerusalem (resurrected & glorified; Matthew 27:50-53, 28:1-4; Isaiah 26:19; (for Jesus, see also Psalms 40:6; Hebrews 10:5; Galatians 4:4); Psalms 68:8,17-21 (vs 21., see Genesis 3:15); compare Psalms 68:18 to Ephesians 4:8-10; Compare Leviticus 23:9-14; 15-22 (Firstfruits) to 1 Corinthians 15:21-23. See also Psalms 24:1-10 (Triumphal Entry into New Jerusalem), with Psalms 98:1-3; Colossians 2:15. See also Acts 1.), and​
[5] Jesus Himself (resurrected, glorified & ascended; Matthew 28:6; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:6; Revelation 12:5, &c). That’s it, for now.​
 

Eternally Grateful

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Not one stone left standing upon another. …They showed Him the buildings of the temple and how great they were. He also saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it…but to make it literal …then we should be looking for cursed fig trees that do not bear …letting no fruit grow on them hereforth… how could He stand looking at a fig tree and speak as it happens to the tree but teach something significant …then also stand seeing the temple and speak of the stones coming down? It has to be literal we say..
Matthew 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

Not one stone will be left standing upon another …but every stone cast down. could mean
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

What of living stones ???
you have to take him literally. Or else his words are meaningless

the fig tree withered (it died). And no stone was left.

at least 2 historians went to the city after 70 AD. And said there was nothign left.. it did not even look like a city ever existed.
 

ReChoired

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Regardless of whether or not the spirit of a person has consciousness in heaven, scripture is clear that a person's soul does have consciousness there.

Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
...
QUESTION: WAS MANKIND (ADAM) CREATED WITH AN IMMORTAL “SOUL”, OR WAS MANKIND (ADAM) CREATED AS A “LIVING SOUL” FROM SOMETHING?

[A.] Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (see also 1 Corinthians 15:45; Acts 17:25; Job 12:10)
[1.] “the dust of the ground” + [2.] “the breath of life (of God)” “breathed into his nostrils” = [3.] “man became a living soul”.​
[B.] Gen 18:27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:​
[C.] Job 4:19 How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?​
[D.] Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;​
[E.] Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.​

QUESTION: WHAT IS A SOUL (LIVING or DEAD)?

A “soul” (H5315, G5590; Leviticus 22:11; Hebrews 4:12) is a “life” (Genesis 9:5; Matthew 6:25; Luke 9:56; Acts 15:26, 27:10; 1 John 3:16; Revelation 12:11, &c.), “person/s” (Genesis 14:21; Numbers 5:6, &c.), “creature” (Genesis 1:21,24; Leviticus 11:46, &c.), or “beast” (Leviticus 24:18). It can also be defined as a “being”.​

QUESTION: IF MANKIND (ADAM), WHEN ALIVE, IS A “LIVING SOUL”, ARE “BEASTS” THAT ARE ALIVE ALSO “LIVING SOULS”?

Num 31:28 And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:​
See also Joshua 6, 10 & 11, in every instance where it is written that Joshua destroyed “all the souls that were therein” (Joshua 6:21, 10:28,30,32,35,37,39-40, 11:11) it included both “persons” (mankind) and “beeves”, “asses”, “sheep”, &c of the “beasts” that were in those cities.​

QUESTION: CAN A “LIVING SOUL” DIE AND BECOME A “DEAD” SOUL, HAVING NO LIFE ANYMORE?

Yes, see “dead”: Leviticus 19:28, 21:1, 22:4; Numbers 5:2, 6:11, 9:6-7 (2),10. If the “dust of the ground” from which any “living soul” is “formed” is destroyed or damaged beyond sustaining life, or if the “breath of life (of God)” is taken back by God, that “living soul” becomes a dead soul (person, creature, beast, being):

[A.] Eze_18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.​
[B.] Eze_18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.​
[C.] Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.​

QUESTION: IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MANKIND AND BEAST IN DEATH?

[A.] Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.​
[B.] Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (for Catholics, see ‘Ash Wednesday’, “Remember you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”)
[C.] Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.​
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.​

QUESTION: ARE MANKIND (“LIVING SOULS”) WHICH ARE ALIVE, “MORTAL” OR “IMMORTAL”?

Job_4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker? (see also Romans 6:12, 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:53-54; 2 Corinthians 4:11)

QUESTION: IF MANKIND HAS LIFE CONDITIONALLY, WHERE DID THE TEACHING OF “IMMORTAL SOUL/SPIRIT” COME FROM?

[A.] Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:​
[B.] Rev_12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (see also Revelation 20:2)
[C.] Lev_20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.​
[D.] 1Ch_10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;​
[E.] 1Ti_4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;​
[F.] Rev_16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.​

QUESTION: IS THERE ANYONE IN THE BIBLE WHO HAS IMMORTALITY, OR IS INHERENTLY IMMORTAL?

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;​
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.​
 

ReChoired

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Regardless of whether or not the spirit of a person has consciousness in heaven, scripture is clear that a person's soul does have consciousness there.

Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
...
QUESTION: WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A “LIVING SOUL” DIES?

They return to the dust of the earth from which they came, and it is as if they “sleep” (lying down) in the grave, until their respective resurrection.
[A.] Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.​
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.​
[B.] Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.​
[C.] Ecc_12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (“breath of life (of God)”)shall return unto God who gave it.​
[D.] Psa 90:3 Thou turnest man to destruction (H1793; crushed to dust); and sayest, Return, ye children of men.​
[E.] Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.​
[F.] Psa 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.​
Psa 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.​
[G.] Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.​
[H.] Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;​
Job 14:6 Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.​
Job 14:7 For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.​
Job 14:8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;​
Job 14:9 Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.​
Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
Job 14:11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:​
Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. (see “heaven”: Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33; 2 Peter 3:10; Isaiah 34:4; Revelation 6:14.)
Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! (see “wrath” = 7 last plagues; Revelation 15:1, 16:1,19)
Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. (see 1 Corinthians 15:50-58; Luke 14:14)
Job 14:15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. (see “call”: 1 Thessalonians 4:16; Psalms 50:4; Isaiah 25:8-9)
[I.] Job 14:21 His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.​
[J.] Job 17:13 If I wait, the grave is mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness.​
Job 17:14 I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister.​
Job 17:15 And where is now my hope? as for my hope, who shall see it?​
Job 17:16 They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when our rest together is in the dust.​

QUESTION: IS IT ONLY THE “BODY” THAT GOES TO THE GRAVE, OR IS IT THE WHOLE PERSON, THE DEAD SOUL?

[A.] Job 20:11 His bones are full of the sin of his youth, which shall lie down with him in the dust.​
[B.] Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;​
Job 34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.​
[C.] Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,​
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.​
 

ReChoired

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Regardless of whether or not the spirit of a person has consciousness in heaven, scripture is clear that a person's soul does have consciousness there.

Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
...

QUESTION: DON’T WE GET TO KEEP THE “SPIRIT” IN DEATH?

Ecc_8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.​

QUESTION: DO THE DECEASED PRAY, PRAISE, SING, REJOICE OR MAKE ANY NOISE?

[A.] Psa 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.​
[B.] Isa 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.​
[C.] Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?​

QUESTION: ARE THE PATRIARCH’S, PROPHETS, APOSTLES & DISCIPLES WHO DIED “IN THE LORD” IN HEAVEN NOW?

[A.] Joh_8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?​
[B.] Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:​
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:​
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.​

[C.] Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.​
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,​
Act_13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:​
[D.] Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. (“spirit” is Stephen’s last breath, his prayer)
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.​
Act 8:2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.​

QUESTION: WHAT DID PEOPLE DO TO JESUS WHEN HE TAUGHT THIS DOCTRINE OF THE ‘SLEEPING’ SOUL?

Mat_9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. (see also Mark 5:40; Luke 8:53)

QUESTION: DID THE DISCIPLES & APOSTLES CONTINUE IN THIS DOCTRINE?

Act_2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.​
 

ReChoired

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Regardless of whether or not the spirit of a person has consciousness in heaven, scripture is clear that a person's soul does have consciousness there.

Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
...
Rev. 6:9-11 comes in a series of symbolic (Rev. 1:1) visions. Do you truly believe that there are coloured horses jumping out of scrolls?

The “altar” (Revelation 6:9 KJB) is not the Golden Altar of Incense (Exodus 39:38, 40:26; Revelation 8:3, 9:13), but is the Altar of Slaughter, Burnt Offering – Sacrifice (Exodus 40:29 KJB), where the blood of the sheep (Psalms 44:22; Romans 8:36 KJB) was to be spilled at its base (Leviticus 4:18,30,34, 5:9, 8;15, 9:9 KJB), like Jesus at Calvary on the earth (Isaiah 53:7; John 19:34; Acts 8:32 KJB).​

In Revelation 6:9 KJB (Past; Dark Ages, etc.) we see that there were those “slain for”:

[A1] “the word of God”​
[B1] “the testimony [G3141] which they held”​

In Revelation 20:4 KJB (Future; Mark of the Beast) we see that there will be those “beheaded for”:

[B2] “the witness [“testimony” G3141] of Jesus”​
[A2] “the word of God”​

Blood Crying Out – Symbol for Evidence, Testimony of Crime (Genesis 4:10; Hebrews 12:24; Matthew 23:35; Luke 11:51 KJB); other things without life also cry out, Habakkuk 2:11; Luke 19:40 KJB, even “flesh” (Psalms 84:2 KJB).

“And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.” – Genesis 4:10 KJB​

These “souls” (persons) are dead, and that they, by their shed blood, in which was the Life - John 15:13 (Genesis 9:4; Leviticus 17:11,14; Deuteronomy 12:23 KJB), are symbolically crying out for justice, even as Abels’ blood shed from the foundation of the world, and they should “rest” (sleep of death in the grave) a little season longer “until” something was to happen... and that something is the slaying of the rest of the martyrs at the end, and will be vindicated in the Resurrection. [sleep, asleep, sleepeth] Deuteronomy 31:16; 2 Samuel 7:12; Job 3:13, 7:21, 14:12; 1 Kings 1:21, 2:10, 11:21,43, 14:20,31, 15:8,24, 16:6,28, 22:40,50; 2 Kings 8:24, 10:35, 13:9,13, 14:16,22,29, 15:7,22,38, 16:20, 20:21, 21:18, 24:6; 2 Chronicles 9:31, 12:16, 14:1, 16:13, 21:1, 26:2,23, 27:9, 28:27, 32:33, 33:20; Job 14:12; Psalms 13:3; Matthew 27:52; John 11:11-13; Acts 7:60, 13:36; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4; [awake] Job 14:12; Psalms 17:15; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; John 11:11-13; [grave/bed] Job 17:13; Psalms 139:8; Luke 17:34; [fathers and prophets are dead] John 6:49,58, 8:52,53; Acts 2:29,34, 13:36; Hebrews 11:4,13,16,40 KJB. See - Sincerely Dead : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive



“How long ...” must they wait so without their “crowns” (2 Timothy 4:8 KJB)?​
“If I wait, the grave is mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness.” - Job 17:13 “If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.” - Job 14:14 KJB​

When will God avenge them? Not until the other group of Martyrs comes, and them God will avenge both groups together, in the 7 last plagues, after which comes their resurrection:

“... rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.” - Revelation 6:11 KJB​
“For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.” - Revelation 16:6 KJB​

After those things, comes Jesus, and the Resurrection to awaken the saints from the dust of the earth where they were asleep and waiting, knowing nothing. See 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJB.
 

Phoneman777

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Are you purposely being obtuse? It was his last post to you before the one where he said it was his last post. Good grief.
I wanted to ensure I didn't miss one of his posts, is all.
As for what you said about me, did you not see where I said figurative text does not automatically make a passage a parable?
I already responded to your "explanation" with irrefutable proof of your errors. When will you explain to us how "disembodied souls" have eyes, tongues, fingers, bosoms, etc.?

When Jesus said angels are coming to reap the harvest, does anyone really think they're coming with weedeaters to kill the crabgrass? But, somehow, you read about dead guys having eyes, tongues, fingers, and think, "Oh, yeah, these are special disembodied bodies so the passage is literal."
If that was what made something a parable there would be hundreds or maybe thousands of parables in scripture. Just because the rich man's torment is described figuratively does not mean he isn't actually experiencing torment in a real place called hell (hades). Do you deny the existence of hell? Parables do not contain descriptions of real places and real people like Luke 16:19-31 does. Why can't you get that through your head?
There's nothing literal about the passage! Scripture is clear that dead people don't know, see, talk, remember, devise plans, praise God, return to warn anyone - and literal, live people can't carry on conversations while engulfed in flame or experience any measure of relief from a drop of water on the tongue.

Jesus said the "wicked" Rich Man will see the saints in the kingdom when He says "depart" - not at death.

Peter says fiery punishment is future: "and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished".

Yeah, the passage is literal...literally a symbolic parable ;)
 
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ReChoired

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...William Tyndale ...
Not just William Tyndale, but about 2/3's of the so called 'fathers' were conditionalist or annihilationist, as well as many reformationists.

You can read about that here - Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Books, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

Like Luther who believed the person sleeps in death until their resurrection at the return of Jesus:

Others included Camillo Renato (1540)[109] Mátyás Dévai Bíró (1500–1545)[110] Michael Servetus (1511–1553)[111] Laelio Sozzini (1562)[112] Fausto Sozzini (1563)[113] the Polish Brethren (1565 onwards)[114] Dirk Philips (1504–1568)[115] Gregory Paul of Brzezin (1568)[116] the Socinians (1570–1800)[117] John Frith (1573)[118] George Schomann (1574)[119] Simon Budny (1576)[113]​

Like Milton:

Those holding this view include: 1600s: Sussex Baptists[126] d. 1612: Edward Wightman[127] 1627: Samuel Gardner[128] 1628: Samuel Przypkowski[129] 1636: George Wither[130] 1637: Joachim Stegmann[131] 1624: Richard Overton[90] 1654: John Biddle (Unitarian)[132] 1655: Matthew Caffyn[133] 1658: Samuel Richardson[134] 1608–1674: John Milton[135][136] 1588–1670: Thomas Hobbes[117] 1605–1682: Thomas Browne[137] 1622–1705: Henry Layton[138] 1702: William Coward[138] 1632–1704: John Locke[139] 1643–1727: Isaac Newton[140] 1676–1748: Pietro Giannone[141] 1751: William Kenrick[142] 1755: Edmund Law[143] 1759: Samuel Bourn[144] 1723–1791: Richard Price[145] 1718–1797: Peter Peckard[146] 1733–1804: Joseph Priestley[147] Francis Blackburne (1765)[148] (1765).​

19th-20th century:

Others include: Millerites (from 1833),[154] Edward White (1846),[155] Christadelphians (from 1848),[156] Thomas Thayer (1855),[157] François Gaussen (d.1863),[158] Henry Constable (1873),[159] Louis Burnier (Waldensian, d.1878),[160] the Baptist Conditionalist Association (1878),[161] Cameron Mann (1888),[162] Emmanuel Pétavel-Olliff (1891), Miles Grant (1895)[163] George Gabriel Stokes (1897),[155]​
The Blackwell Encyclopedia of Modern Christian Thought (1995), says "There is no concept of an immortal soul in the Old Testament, nor does the New Testament ever call the human soul immortal.",[190] Harper's Bible Dictionary (1st ed. 1985), says that 'For a Hebrew, ‘soul’ indicated the unity of a human person; Hebrews were living bodies, they did not have bodies",[191] the New Bible Dictionary’ (3rd. ed. 1996), says "But to the Bible man is not a soul in a body but a body/soul unity",[192] the Encyclopedia of Judaism’ (2000), says "Scripture does not present even a rudimentarily developed theology of the soul",[193] the New Dictionary of Theology’ (2000), and "The notion of the soul as an independent force that animates human life but that can exist apart from the human body—either prior to conception and birth or subsequent to life and death—is the product only of later Judaism",[188] Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible (2000), says "Far from referring simply to one aspect of a person, “soul” refers to the whole person",[194] the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says "Possibly Jn. 6:33 also includes an allusion to the general life-giving function. This teaching rules out all ideas of an emanation of the soul.",[195] and "The soul and the body belong together, so that without either the one or the other there is no true man",[196] Eerdmans Bible Dictionary (1987), says "Indeed, the salvation of the “immortal soul” has sometimes been a commonplace in preaching, but it is fundamentally unbiblical.",[197] the Encyclopedia of Christianity (2003), says "The Hebrew Bible does not present the human soul (nepeš) or spirit (rûah) as an immortal substance, and for the most part it envisions the dead as ghosts in Sheol, the dark, sleepy underworld",[198] The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (2005), says "there is practically no specific teaching on the subject in the Bible beyond an underlying assumption of some form of afterlife (see immortality)",[199] and the Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible (rev. ed. 2009), says "It is this essential soul-body oneness that provides the uniqueness of the biblical concept of the resurrection of the body as distinguished from the Greek idea of the immortality of the soul".[200][201]​
The mortalist disbelief in the existence of a naturally immortal soul,[1][5] is also affirmed as biblical teaching by various modern theologians,[202][203][204][205][206][207][208][209][210]- https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/11538103


Annihilation and Soul Sleep Historical Sources (Baptists, Methodists, Syrians, Arabians, Reformers (Martin Luther, William Tyndale, &c) - State Of The Dead & Annihilation Hellfire Non SDA Quotes : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
 

ReChoired

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... William Tyndale ...


The Soul Sleepers - Chapter 4 The Major Seventeenth Century Advocates - Doctrine - The Soul Sleepers - Chapter 4 The Major Seventeenth Century Advocates : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Emmanuel Petavel Olliff - The Problem Of Immortality - Doctrine - Emmanuel Petavel Olliff - The Problem Of Immortality : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Charles L Ives - The Bible Doctrine Of The Soul An Answer To The Question - Doctrine - Charles L Ives - The Bible Doctrine Of The Soul An Answer To The Question : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Albert C. Johnson - Conditional Immortality - Doctrine - Albert C. Johnson - Conditional Immortality : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

A Debate On The State Of The Dead - Nathaniel Field Vs Thomas P Connelly - Doctrine - A Debate On The State Of The Dead - Nathaniel Field Vs Thomas P Connelly : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Henry Grew (Baptist) - State Of The Dead &c Owned By Joseph Frisbie, With His Personal Markings - Doctrine - Henry Grew (Baptist) - State Of The Dead &c Owned By Joseph Frisbie, With His Personal Markings : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Stephen Bohr - Secrets Unsealed - State Of The Dead & Hellfire Sermons - Stephen Bohr - Secrets Unsealed - State Of The Dead & Hellfire Sermons : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Christian Mortalism From Tyndale To Milton By Norman T. Burns - Christian Mortalism From Tyndale To Milton By Norman T. Burns : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

William Tyndale - Tyndales Answer To Sir Thomas More - Doctrine - William Tyndale - Tyndales Answer To Sir Thomas More : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Wenham John - The Case For Conditional Immortality - Doctrine - Wenham John - The Case For Conditional Immortality : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Vladimir Baranozv - Sleep Of The Soul [18177565 Scrinium] “Angels In The Guise Of Saints” A Syrian Tradition In Constantinople - Doctrine - Vladimir Baranozv - Sleep Of The Soul [18177565 Scrinium] “Angels In The Guise Of Saints” A Syrian Tradition In Constantinople : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Life And Immortality By Basil Atkinson - Doctrine - Life And Immortality By Basil Atkinson : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Glenn A Peoples - Soul Sleep - Rethinking Hell Chapter 2 - Doctrine - Glenn A Peoples - Soul Sleep - Rethinking Hell Chapter 2 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Dirk Krausmuller - Soul Sleep - [18177565 Scrinium] Christian Platonism And The Debate About Afterlife - Doctrine - Dirk Krausmuller - Soul Sleep - [18177565 Scrinium] Christian Platonism And The Debate About Afterlife : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Christopher M Date - Soul Sleep - 18. MJTM. 69 92 Date - Doctrine - Christopher M Date - Soul Sleep - 18. MJTM. 69 92 Date : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Richard Whately - A View Of The Scripture Revelations Concerning A Future State - Doctrine - Richard Whately - A View Of The Scripture Revelations Concerning A Future State : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

H H Dobney & John Milton - The Scripture Doctrine Of Future Punishment An Argument - Doctrine - H H Dobney & John Milton - The Scripture Doctrine Of Future Punishment An Argument : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

George Storrs - An Inquiry Are The Wicked Immortal In Six Sermons Also Have The Dead Knowledge Which Is Prefixed An Extract On The Second Death By Archbishop Whately - Doctrine - George Storrs - An Inquiry Are The Wicked Immortal In Six Sermons Also Have The Dead Knowledge Which Is Prefixed An Extract On The Second Death By Archbishop Whately : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

D M Canright - A History Of The Doctrine Of The Soul Among All Races And Peoples, Ancient And Modern...; Carefully Brought Down To The Present Time - SDA - D M Canright - A History Of The Doctrine Of The Soul Among All Races And Peoples, Ancient And Modern...; Carefully Brought Down To The Present Time : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

John Milton (Paradise Lost) - Doctrine - The State Of The Dead - John Milton (Paradise Lost) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

F. Gavin - The Sleep Of The Soul In The Early Syriac Church - Doctrine - F. Gavin - The Sleep Of The Soul In The Early Syriac Church : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Bryan W. Ball - Sixteenth Century Continental Conditionalists - Doctrine - Bryan W. Ball - Sixteenth Century Continental Conditionalists : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Aphrahat By J. Edward Walters - Sleep Of The Soul And Resurrection Of The Body - Doctrine - Aphrahat By J. Edward Walters - Sleep Of The Soul And Resurrection Of The Body : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Hell & Mr Fudge - Edward Fudge - Hell & Mr Fudge - Edward Fudge : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

LeRoy Edwin Froom - The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 02 - Doctrine - Death - LeRoy Edwin Froom - The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 02 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

LeRoy Edwin Froom - The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 01 - Doctrine - Death - LeRoy Edwin Froom - The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 01 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Secrets Unsealed - Stephen Bohr - Misunderstood Texts On The State Of The Dead - Secrets Unsealed - Stephen Bohr - Misunderstood Texts On The State Of The Dead : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive