Oops, the Deacon's Son is Gay

[Dan Clarkston]

Gen 2:24 RV "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."
If that defines sin, then Jesus sinned not cleaving to a wife, or it also contradicts Paul in 1 Cor. 7:7-9

Only those being led by the devil claim Jesus was a sinner.

They twist God's Word to their own destruction.

Rom 1:27 RV and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.
*In the scenario given in the OP, the boy did not possess a woman from whom to leave!

This is speaking of leaving behind the desire to be with women so they can be with men... which is sinful behavior

You gay people are no going to be allowed in to God's Kingdom seeing you refuse to repent of your sin.

 

[Athanasius377]

Lets examine this closer:

The ESV reads:

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. Crossway Bibles, 2016, p. 1 Co 6:9–11.

The ESV has a footnote regarding vs "homosexual", which reads:

The two Greek terms translated by this phrase refer to the passive and active partners in consensual homosexual acts.

The Greek text for vs 9 reads as follows (UBS5)


ἢ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι ἄδικοι θεοῦ βασιλείαν οὐ κληρονομήσουσιν; μὴ πλανᾶσθε· οὔτε πόρνοι οὔτε εἰδωλολάτραι οὔτε μοιχοὶ οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται


Aland, Barbara, et al., editors. The Greek New Testament. Fifth Revised Edition, Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 2014, p. 1 Co 6:9.

The two words of note in the passage are μαλακός and ἀρσενοκοίτης or Malakos and Arnsenokiotes

-BDAG defines μαλακός (malakos) as:

μαλακός, ή, όν (s. two prec. entries; ‘soft’: Hom. et al.; ins, pap, LXX, Philo; Jos., Ant. 8, 72 βύσσος μ.; Mel., P. 80, 594 στρωμνῆς μ.)

① pert. to being yielding to touch, soft, of things: clothes (Hom. et al.; Artem. 1, 78 p. 73, 10 ἱματίων πολυτελῶν κ. μαλακῶν; PSI 364, 5 ἱμάτιον μαλ.) μ. ἱμάτια soft garments, such as fastidious people wear Lk 7:25. (τὰ) μ. soft clothes (Sb 6779, 57; s. λευκός 2, end) Mt 11:8ab.

② pert. to being passive in a same-sex relationship, effeminate esp. of catamites, of men and boys who are sodomized by other males in such a relationship, opp. ἀρσενοκοίτης (Dionys. Hal. 7, 2, 4; Dio Chrys. 49 [66], 25; Ptolem., Apotel. 3, 15, 10; Vett. Val. 113, 22; Diog. L. 7, 173; PHib 54, 11 [c. 245 b.c.] may have this mng.: a musician called Zenobius ὁ μαλακός [prob. with a sideline, according to Dssm., LO 131, 4—LAE 164, 4]. S. also a Macedon. ins in LDuchesne and CBayet, Mémoire sur une Mission au Mont Athos 1876 no. 66 p. 46; Plautus, Miles 668 cinaedus [Gk. κίναιδος] malacus; cp. the attack on the morality of submissive homoeroticism Aeschin. 1, 188; DCohen, Greece and Rome 23, ’76, 181f) 1 Cor 6:9 (‘male prostitutes’ NRSV is too narrow a rendering; ‘sexual pervert’ REB is too broad)=Pol 5:3.—S. lit. s.v. ἀρσενοκοίτης. B. 1065. DELG. M-M.

Arndt, William, et al. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed., University of Chicago Press, 2000, p. 613.

-ἀρσενοκοίτης or (Arsenokoites) is defined as "male bedder".

ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου, ὁ (ἄρσην ‘male’ + κοίτη ‘bed’; Bardesanes 719 Fgm. 3b 10, 25 p. 653 Jac. [in Eus., PE 6, 10, 25]; Anth. Pal. 9, 686, 5 and Cat. Cod. Astr. VIII/4 p. 196, 6 and 8 have the sp. ἀρρενοκοίτης; Theoph. Ant. 1, 2 [p. 60, 27]; in a vice list—ἀρσενοκοιτεῖν SibOr 2, 73; AcJ 36 [Aa II/1, 169]; cp. the association of ἄρσην and κοίτη Lev 20:13, s. Soph. Lex.: ἀ.= ὁ μετὰ ἄρσενος κοιμώμενος κοίτην γυναικείαν=‘one who has intercourse w. a man as w. a woman’; cp. the formation of μητροκοίτης [μήτηρ + κοίτη] ‘one who has intercourse w. his mother’ Hipponax 15, 2 Diehl3 [=Degani 20, 2]) a male who engages in sexual activity w. a pers. of his own sex, Pederast, 1 Cor 6:9 (on the impropriety of RSV’s ‘homosexuals’ [altered to ‘sodomites’ NRSV] s. WPetersen, VigChr 40, ’86, 187–91; cp. DWright, ibid. 41, ’87, 396–98; REB’s rendering of μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται w. the single term ‘sexual pervert’ is lexically unacceptable), of one who assumes the dominant role in same-sex activity, opp. μαλακός (difft. DMartin, in Biblical Ethics and Homosexuality, ed. RBrawley, ’96, 117–36); 1 Ti 1:10; Pol 5:3. Cp. Ro 1:27. Romans forbade pederasty w. free boys in the Lex Scantinia, pre-Cicero (JBremmer, Arethusa 13, ’80, 288 and notes); Paul’s strictures against same-sex activity cannot be satisfactorily explained on the basis of alleged temple prostitution (on its rarity, but w. some evidence concerning women used for sacred prostitution at Corinth s. LWoodbury, TAPA 108, ’78, 290f, esp. note 18 [lit.]), or limited to contract w. boys for homoerotic service (s. Wright, VigChr 38, ’84, 125–53). For condemnation of the practice in the Euphrates region s. the ref. to Bardesanes above.—RBurton, The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night, 1934, vol. 6, 3748–82, lit. reff. and anthropological data relating to a variety of Mediterranean cultures; DBailey, Homosexuality and the Western Christian Tradition, ’55; KDover, Greek Homosexuality ’78; RScroggs, The NT and Homosexuality ’83; JBoswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality ’80; JBremmer, Greek Pederasty, in JBremmer, ed. From Sappho to de Sade2 ’91, 1–14; ECantarella, Bisexuality in the Ancient World ’92.—Pauly-W. 8, 1333f; 1459–68. DELG s.v. ἄρσην. M-M.


Arndt, William, et al. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed., University of Chicago Press, 2000, p. 135.

To put it bluntly, ἀρσενοκοίτης is the man who's pitching, μαλακός is the man catching. The ESV combines the two words to describe homosexual acts. Other translations like the the NASB separate the words out so that it reads "Effeminate and homosexuals).

The NRSV update reads:


9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, men who engage in illicit sex,,* 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, swindlers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.
with the footnote: meaning of Gk uncertain

New Revised Standard Version: Updated Edition. Friendship Press, 2021, p. 1 Co 6:9–10.

So let me get this straight, in the year 2000 we knew what μαλακός and ἀρσενοκοίτης meant and had solid lexical support but suddenly in 2021 we didn't. Was there an avalanche of scholarship or new texts that were discovered? Nope, the editors of the NRSV UE are lying to us. Even BDAG recognizes that Paul is referencing Lev 20:13 in the LXX:


13 Καὶ ὃς ἂν κοιμηθῇ μετὰ ἄρσενος κοίτην γυναικὸς, βδέλυγμα ἐποίησαν ἀμφότεροι· θανάτῳ θανατούσθωσαν, ἔνοχοι εἰσιν.


13 And whoever lies with a male in sexual intercourse as with a woman, they have both committed an abomination; ⌊let them be executed⌋; they are guilty.


Brenton, Lancelot C. L. The Septuagint Version: Greek. Samuel Bagster & Sons, 1851, p. Le 20:13.

Brannan, Rick, et al., editors. The Lexham English Septuagint. Lexham Press, 2012, p. Le 20:13.

Quibble over the choice of homosexual all you want but the behavior is clearly forbidden regardless of orientation or any other reason. If someone feels attracted to members of the opposite sex then they should repent and mortify that sin. Understand that Jesus Christ bled and died for that sin too and in Him is forgiveness and life eternal. As for the deacon, he should take a sabbatical for a season until this issue is resolved. If the issue cannot be resolved then he should resign. The church and Christians everywhere should pray for and assist with the situation. At no point should the father disassociate with his son, but neither can the father accept his son's choice.

 

[Christian Soldier]

The scenario, the young man is said to be cohabiting with another young man. When questioned by the Pastor, the young man replies, "If it is any of your business, I have always been attracted to other males, emotionally, romantically and sexually. I have never had such feelings for a female, and in fact I find it repulsive to imagine sexual intercourse with a female. Now, God himself said it was not good that man be alone, so who are you to condemn me? Is there any verse that condemns me for this loving relationship? NO!"

By what authority does anyone possess to claim ability to read the mind of the young man and tell him it was his choice, and he can change by choosing. What use is it to blather on about LGBTQ, gays, or active and passive homosexuality? No one knows why 3-4% or so of males have this loving attraction. By what right does anyone tell him he needs to be cured, or that he needs a conversion by God, to love females? Frankly, such judging appears to be forbidden by God's word.

It is only our own spirit within us that knows all about us; in the same way, only God's Spirit knows all about God. (1Cor 2:11 GNB92)

The heart knows its own bitterness, and in its joy a stranger has no part. (Prov 14:10 REB)

The heart is devious above all else; it is perverse— who can understand it? (Jer 17:9 NRSV) *The heart of the one judging is devious too!

A person’s whole conduct may be right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs up his motives. (Prov 21:2 REB)

None of us can see our own errors; deliver me, LORD, from hidden faults! (Ps 19:12 GNB92)

Make it your aim to live a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to earn your own living, just as we told you before. (1Thess 4:11 GNB92)

If you suffer, it must not be because you are a murderer or a thief or a criminal or a meddler in other people's affairs. (1Pet 4:15 GNB92)

“Do not judge others, so that God will not judge you, for God will judge you in the same way you judge others, and he will apply to you the same rules you apply to others. Why, then, do you look at the speck in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the log in your own eye? (Matt 7:1-3 GNB92)
Thayer - to pronounce judgment; to subject to censure; of those who judge severely (unfairly), finding fault with this or that in others, Mat 7:1; Luk 6:37; Rom 2:1; τινα, Rom 2:1; Rom 2:3; Rom 14:3, 10,13

Who are you to judge the servants of someone else? It is their own Master who will decide whether they succeed or fail. And they will succeed, because the Lord is able to make them succeed. (Rom 14:4 GNB92)

God is the only lawgiver and judge. He alone can save and destroy. Who do you think you are, to judge someone else? (Jas 4:12 GNB92) Thayer - hence equivalent to to condemn: Rom 2:27; Jas 4:11 f.

But God commands us to judge everyone. God executes the final judgement, when He casts sinners into hell. But we judge people to put them in categories, we all do it naturally but some deny the fact and try to fool other that they don't but we all know they do.

Matthew 7:17-20 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

We are told to judge them by their fruits for a good reason. For example a Church minister needs to examine/judge a persons life, if they apply for Church membership. So if he finds out that the applicant is a homosexual who is shacked up with another homosexual. The Minister must reject the application for membership.

Church membership means you are joined to the Body of Christ, and the Bible says that no Sodomites can have any part in His Church/Body. The God who destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gamora, is still the same, He hasn't gone soft on Sodomy.

I don't know what scriptures the "Rainbow Church", uses to justify itself. But I can't thin k of any that could be used to say that Sodomites can be Church Members.

 

[Jack]

the word homosexual never appeared in the bible in the original texts.

So all of our English Bibles are wrong? What are your credentials? NONE maybe?

 

[Arthur81]

Lets examine this closer:

The ESV reads:

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. Crossway Bibles, 2016, p. 1 Co 6:9–11.

The ESV has a footnote regarding vs "homosexual", which reads:

The two Greek terms translated by this phrase refer to the passive and active partners in consensual homosexual acts.

The Greek text for vs 9 reads as follows (UBS5)


ἢ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι ἄδικοι θεοῦ βασιλείαν οὐ κληρονομήσουσιν; μὴ πλανᾶσθε· οὔτε πόρνοι οὔτε εἰδωλολάτραι οὔτε μοιχοὶ οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται


Aland, Barbara, et al., editors. The Greek New Testament. Fifth Revised Edition, Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 2014, p. 1 Co 6:9.

The two words of note in the passage are μαλακός and ἀρσενοκοίτης or Malakos and Arnsenokiotes

-BDAG defines μαλακός (malakos) as:

μαλακός, ή, όν (s. two prec. entries; ‘soft’: Hom. et al.; ins, pap, LXX, Philo; Jos., Ant. 8, 72 βύσσος μ.; Mel., P. 80, 594 στρωμνῆς μ.)

① pert. to being yielding to touch, soft, of things: clothes (Hom. et al.; Artem. 1, 78 p. 73, 10 ἱματίων πολυτελῶν κ. μαλακῶν; PSI 364, 5 ἱμάτιον μαλ.) μ. ἱμάτια soft garments, such as fastidious people wear Lk 7:25. (τὰ) μ. soft clothes (Sb 6779, 57; s. λευκός 2, end) Mt 11:8ab.

② pert. to being passive in a same-sex relationship, effeminate esp. of catamites, of men and boys who are sodomized by other males in such a relationship, opp. ἀρσενοκοίτης (Dionys. Hal. 7, 2, 4; Dio Chrys. 49 [66], 25; Ptolem., Apotel. 3, 15, 10; Vett. Val. 113, 22; Diog. L. 7, 173; PHib 54, 11 [c. 245 b.c.] may have this mng.: a musician called Zenobius ὁ μαλακός [prob. with a sideline, according to Dssm., LO 131, 4—LAE 164, 4]. S. also a Macedon. ins in LDuchesne and CBayet, Mémoire sur une Mission au Mont Athos 1876 no. 66 p. 46; Plautus, Miles 668 cinaedus [Gk. κίναιδος] malacus; cp. the attack on the morality of submissive homoeroticism Aeschin. 1, 188; DCohen, Greece and Rome 23, ’76, 181f) 1 Cor 6:9 (‘male prostitutes’ NRSV is too narrow a rendering; ‘sexual pervert’ REB is too broad)=Pol 5:3.—S. lit. s.v. ἀρσενοκοίτης. B. 1065. DELG. M-M.

Arndt, William, et al. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed., University of Chicago Press, 2000, p. 613.

-ἀρσενοκοίτης or (Arsenokoites) is defined as "male bedder".

ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου, ὁ (ἄρσην ‘male’ + κοίτη ‘bed’; Bardesanes 719 Fgm. 3b 10, 25 p. 653 Jac. [in Eus., PE 6, 10, 25]; Anth. Pal. 9, 686, 5 and Cat. Cod. Astr. VIII/4 p. 196, 6 and 8 have the sp. ἀρρενοκοίτης; Theoph. Ant. 1, 2 [p. 60, 27]; in a vice list—ἀρσενοκοιτεῖν SibOr 2, 73; AcJ 36 [Aa II/1, 169]; cp. the association of ἄρσην and κοίτη Lev 20:13, s. Soph. Lex.: ἀ.= ὁ μετὰ ἄρσενος κοιμώμενος κοίτην γυναικείαν=‘one who has intercourse w. a man as w. a woman’; cp. the formation of μητροκοίτης [μήτηρ + κοίτη] ‘one who has intercourse w. his mother’ Hipponax 15, 2 Diehl3 [=Degani 20, 2]) a male who engages in sexual activity w. a pers. of his own sex, Pederast, 1 Cor 6:9 (on the impropriety of RSV’s ‘homosexuals’ [altered to ‘sodomites’ NRSV] s. WPetersen, VigChr 40, ’86, 187–91; cp. DWright, ibid. 41, ’87, 396–98; REB’s rendering of μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται w. the single term ‘sexual pervert’ is lexically unacceptable), of one who assumes the dominant role in same-sex activity, opp. μαλακός (difft. DMartin, in Biblical Ethics and Homosexuality, ed. RBrawley, ’96, 117–36); 1 Ti 1:10; Pol 5:3. Cp. Ro 1:27. Romans forbade pederasty w. free boys in the Lex Scantinia, pre-Cicero (JBremmer, Arethusa 13, ’80, 288 and notes); Paul’s strictures against same-sex activity cannot be satisfactorily explained on the basis of alleged temple prostitution (on its rarity, but w. some evidence concerning women used for sacred prostitution at Corinth s. LWoodbury, TAPA 108, ’78, 290f, esp. note 18 [lit.]), or limited to contract w. boys for homoerotic service (s. Wright, VigChr 38, ’84, 125–53). For condemnation of the practice in the Euphrates region s. the ref. to Bardesanes above.—RBurton, The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night, 1934, vol. 6, 3748–82, lit. reff. and anthropological data relating to a variety of Mediterranean cultures; DBailey, Homosexuality and the Western Christian Tradition, ’55; KDover, Greek Homosexuality ’78; RScroggs, The NT and Homosexuality ’83; JBoswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality ’80; JBremmer, Greek Pederasty, in JBremmer, ed. From Sappho to de Sade2 ’91, 1–14; ECantarella, Bisexuality in the Ancient World ’92.—Pauly-W. 8, 1333f; 1459–68. DELG s.v. ἄρσην. M-M.


Arndt, William, et al. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed., University of Chicago Press, 2000, p. 135.

To put it bluntly, ἀρσενοκοίτης is the man who's pitching, μαλακός is the man catching. The ESV combines the two words to describe homosexual acts. Other translations like the the NASB separate the words out so that it reads "Effeminate and homosexuals).

The NRSV update reads:


9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, men who engage in illicit sex,,* 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, swindlers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.
with the footnote: meaning of Gk uncertain

New Revised Standard Version: Updated Edition. Friendship Press, 2021, p. 1 Co 6:9–10.

So let me get this straight, in the year 2000 we knew what μαλακός and ἀρσενοκοίτης meant and had solid lexical support but suddenly in 2021 we didn't. Was there an avalanche of scholarship or new texts that were discovered? Nope, the editors of the NRSV UE are lying to us. Even BDAG recognizes that Paul is referencing Lev 20:13 in the LXX:


13 Καὶ ὃς ἂν κοιμηθῇ μετὰ ἄρσενος κοίτην γυναικὸς, βδέλυγμα ἐποίησαν ἀμφότεροι· θανάτῳ θανατούσθωσαν, ἔνοχοι εἰσιν.


13 And whoever lies with a male in sexual intercourse as with a woman, they have both committed an abomination; ⌊let them be executed⌋; they are guilty.


Brenton, Lancelot C. L. The Septuagint Version: Greek. Samuel Bagster & Sons, 1851, p. Le 20:13.

Brannan, Rick, et al., editors. The Lexham English Septuagint. Lexham Press, 2012, p. Le 20:13.

Quibble over the choice of homosexual all you want but the behavior is clearly forbidden regardless of orientation or any other reason. If someone feels attracted to members of the opposite sex then they should repent and mortify that sin. Understand that Jesus Christ bled and died for that sin too and in Him is forgiveness and life eternal. As for the deacon, he should take a sabbatical for a season until this issue is resolved. If the issue cannot be resolved then he should resign. The church and Christians everywhere should pray for and assist with the situation. At no point should the father disassociate with his son, but neither can the father accept his son's choice.

At the end you wrote: "Quibble over the choice of homosexual all you want but the behavior is clearly forbidden regardless of orientation or any other reason."

I note you indeed wrote it is "behavior" that is clearly forbidden regardless of orientation. Therefore, show the passage in God's word, the New Covenant, that forbids two males cohabiting in a loving long-term relationship. You can pile up the multitude of evangelical translations, and twist the presentation found in the BDAG to write "homosexual" in 1 Cor. 6:9 7 1 Tim. 1:10, but you cannot find a condemnation of the two males I referenced, whether they identify as Gay or Bisexual or a Heterosexual in particular circumstances.

After the 1946 RSV NT improperly used "homosexuals" in 1 Cor. 6:9, the translations of honest scholarship dropped that misleading choice. Staying with the KJV, RV, ASV and YLT, you get the truth of the passage.

 

[Arthur81]

Michael Brown Opinion article in the Christian Post -

Olympics' drag queen Last Supper: Why LGBT public displays celebrate perversity

Why are these perversities so regularly celebrated

www.christianpost.com

In his article, which does make some good points, he writes the following:

"As I have interacted with LGBT identified individuals over the years, the vast majority of them have been quite normal in terms of their interests and lifestyle. They are our co-workers, our neighbors, our family members, our friends, working their jobs, having their relationships, some of them raising kids too."

*I notice Dr. Brown left out fellow church members in his list of relationships.

"Yet many that I have interacted with have also had no problem with little children attending absolutely vulgar gay pride events, even with some events featuring public nudity. Something does not add up."

*I would suggest one reason the gay groups he mentions as using child abuse, he left out the Christian who is gay.The Christian who is gay will not go to such perverse displays, much less letting children attend.

“Gay activists are so careful to utilize carefully crafted language to communicate their points, using ‘gay’ rather than ‘homosexual,’ speaking of ‘gay and lesbian civil rights’ rather than a ‘gay agenda,’ and referring to ‘sexual orientation’ rather than ‘sexual preference,’ just to name a few."

As to the semantics of language, I'd suggest the following understandings, rather than a subversive intent.

"homosexual" in its bare definition is ALL about sex, nothing about attraction, desire for companionship, and love. It also sounds so clinical. These are a couple reasons for leaving the term "homosexual" and using "gay".

"Gay and lesbian civil rights", and why aren't any group working for positive change not called an "agenda"? But I suppose again, using "agenda" also is clearly subversive.

There is a sound psychological reason to use "sexual orientation" rather than "sexual preference". Preference implies a "choice" about sexual nature of a homosexual. Then the evangelical use of SSA (same sex attraction) sounds as if homosexual nature or orientation is merely a temptation of an otherwise heterosexual male.

I write this from a male perspective since that is all that is found in the Bible. You must practice eisegesis to find "lesbians" in Rom. 1:26. The phrase "exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural" can apply to M_F sex as easily with the same type of "intercourse" that can be practiced by males with males in v27.

As I read Dr. Brown's article, I find he too has an "agenda", and it is still the same old bias and prejudice cloaked in a veneer of Christianity.

 

[St. SteVen]

Actually Corinthians 6:9-11New King James Version
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [c]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

What is the difference between a "homosexual" ans a "sodomite"? See verse 9 above.

[

 

[Wick Stick]

And where it likely will not be popular....time for the deacon to step down or disassociate his son.

Thems the choices.

A deacon should manage his family well. And since a homosexual son is a definite sign of not managing his family well....nothing left but to get to it.

Excuses?
Everyone has them with extra to spare for giving them to everyone. But scriptures are the plumb line. Anything outside of it is wrong.

Would you say that homosexuality is strictly a matter of nurture - i.e. upbringing? Is there any room for the thought that nature - i.e. genetics - might be involved?

 

[JohnDB]

Would you say that homosexuality is strictly a matter of nurture - i.e. upbringing? Is there any room for the thought that nature - i.e. genetics - might be involved?

Romans 1 and the first part of 2 explains fully why and how people become homosexual.

You can argue with God over it all you want. You can refuse to believe the scriptures or try to leave them still be confusing to you....

But it's very plain to me that homosexuality is a curse that develops from sin.

 

[Wick Stick]

What is the difference between a "homosexual" ans a "sodomite"? See verse 9 above.

[

Some of the words in those verses aren't very clear in most translations... if I were to translate the Greek in modern words it would look like...

Don't you know that [the] unrighteous don't inherit God's kingdom? Don't be seduced - neither man-whores nor temple-prostitutes nor lovers-of-married-men nor groomers-of-children nor those-who-bed-men...

6:9 ἢ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι ἄδικοι θεοῦ βασιλείαν οὐ κληρονομήσουσιν μὴ πλανᾶσθε οὔτε πόρνοι οὔτε εἰδωλολάτραι οὔτε μοιχοὶ οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται

All the nouns are male... as I see it, the verse does prohibit homosexual sex, but it's especially focused on gay prostitution and pedophilia.

 

[Wick Stick]

Romans 1 and the first part of 2 explains fully why and how people become homosexual.

You can argue with God over it all you want. You can refuse to believe the scriptures or try to leave them still be confusing to you....

But it's very plain to me that homosexuality is a curse that develops from sin.

You didn't quite answer the question... perhaps the question is flawed, though. :shrug:

So as you see it, or as I read the chapters you cited... homosexuality occurs in people who are already affected by some perversity of character. Is that a fair summation?

I struggle to square that idea with the reality of pre-teens existing who already exhibit same-sex attraction. What happened there? Are they affected by the perversity of someone else... the 'sins of the father' so-to-say?

 

[Jack]

I Cor 6 Gays will burn in Hell forever and ever!

 

[JohnDB]

You didn't quite answer the question... perhaps the question is flawed, though

Ummmm
Paul explains the answer thoroughly.

I don't know anything more than that.

However, a sinful father and/or mother or abuser could possibly be an inducement for a person to be so sinful they bring the curse upon themselves.

Sin causes homosexuality. What is difficult to understand? Paul lists out the specifics.

I've never met a pre-teen who had same sex attraction in a Godly functional family.

 

[Jesusfollower]

So all of our English Bibles are wrong? What are your credentials? NONE maybe?

Please do a search yourself and see, go ask someone who has the credentials you think is needed and see if they will say different. let me know what you find.

Best wishes.

 

[David in NJ]

The scenario, the young man is said to be cohabiting with another young man. When questioned by the Pastor, the young man replies, "If it is any of your business, I have always been attracted to other males, emotionally, romantically and sexually. I have never had such feelings for a female, and in fact I find it repulsive to imagine sexual intercourse with a female. Now, God himself said it was not good that man be alone, so who are you to condemn me? Is there any verse that condemns me for this loving relationship? NO!"

By what authority does anyone possess to claim ability to read the mind of the young man and tell him it was his choice, and he can change by choosing. What use is it to blather on about LGBTQ, gays, or active and passive homosexuality? No one knows why 3-4% or so of males have this loving attraction. By what right does anyone tell him he needs to be cured, or that he needs a conversion by God, to love females? Frankly, such judging appears to be forbidden by God's word.

It is only our own spirit within us that knows all about us; in the same way, only God's Spirit knows all about God. (1Cor 2:11 GNB92)

The heart knows its own bitterness, and in its joy a stranger has no part. (Prov 14:10 REB)

The heart is devious above all else; it is perverse— who can understand it? (Jer 17:9 NRSV) *The heart of the one judging is devious too!

A person’s whole conduct may be right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs up his motives. (Prov 21:2 REB)

None of us can see our own errors; deliver me, LORD, from hidden faults! (Ps 19:12 GNB92)

Make it your aim to live a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to earn your own living, just as we told you before. (1Thess 4:11 GNB92)

If you suffer, it must not be because you are a murderer or a thief or a criminal or a meddler in other people's affairs. (1Pet 4:15 GNB92)

“Do not judge others, so that God will not judge you, for God will judge you in the same way you judge others, and he will apply to you the same rules you apply to others. Why, then, do you look at the speck in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the log in your own eye? (Matt 7:1-3 GNB92)
Thayer - to pronounce judgment; to subject to censure; of those who judge severely (unfairly), finding fault with this or that in others, Mat 7:1; Luk 6:37; Rom 2:1; τινα, Rom 2:1; Rom 2:3; Rom 14:3, 10,13

Who are you to judge the servants of someone else? It is their own Master who will decide whether they succeed or fail. And they will succeed, because the Lord is able to make them succeed. (Rom 14:4 GNB92)

God is the only lawgiver and judge. He alone can save and destroy. Who do you think you are, to judge someone else? (Jas 4:12 GNB92) Thayer - hence equivalent to to condemn: Rom 2:27; Jas 4:11 f.

Genesis condemns homosexuality.
Jesus confirmed that.
The Apostles confirmed that.
Revelation confirms that.

 

[David in NJ]

The web site Webmd.com gives a very brief current understanding of sexual orientation, and unless one is belligerently and willingly ignorant, they know this common knowledge of today.

What Determines Sexual Orientation?

Most scientists agree that sexual orientation (including homosexuality and bisexuality) is the result of a combination of environmental, emotional, hormonal, and biological factors. In other words, many things contribute to a person's sexual orientation, and the factors may be different for different people.

Homosexuality and bisexuality aren’t caused by the way children were reared by their parents, or by something that happened to them when they were young. Also, being homosexual or bisexual does not mean the person is mentally ill or abnormal in any way. They may face burdens caused by other people’s prejudices or misunderstandings.

Can Sexual Orientation Be Changed?

Experts agree that sexual orientation isn’t a choice and can’t be changed. Some people who are homosexual or bisexual may hide their sexual orientation to avoid prejudice from others or shame they may have been taught to feel about their sexuality.

Trying to change someone to a heterosexual orientation, including so-called conversion therapy, doesn’t work and can be damaging. Experts don’t recommend this. In fact, the American Medical Association calls it “clinically and ethically inappropriate.”

An Overview of Sexual Orientation

Sexual orientation, including heterosexuality, homosexuality, and bisexuality, can be complicated to understand! Get in here to get answers to your queries related to sexual orientation!

www.webmd.com

Mistake #1 = trusting in so-called 'experts'
Example #1: "Experts agree that sexual orientation isn’t a choice and can’t be changed."

Leviticus ch18
Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness as long as she is in her customary impurity. 20Moreover you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor’s wife, to defile yourself with her. 21And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.
22You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
23Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion.

 

[Jack]

Please do a search yourself and see, go ask someone who has the credentials you think is needed and see if they will say different. let me know what you find.

Best wishes.

I've searched the Bible for years. Every Bible I've studied teaches that gays are heading for Hell fire. And no doubt those who defend gays leading them to Hell!

 

[Christian Soldier]

I've searched the Bible for years. Every Bible I've studied teaches that gays are heading for Hell fire. And no doubt those who defend gays leading them to Hell!

It's amazing to read that some Christians are trying to defend homosexuality, saying the New Testament doesn't condemn it like the Old Testament did.
This idea suggests that God has gone soft on Sodomites in His old age. But the truth is God has always been the same, nothing about Him has ever changed.
So we can be sure that the God of the old testament (who destroyed entire cities) for this same sin, will exact the same kind of eternal punishment on all those who do the same.

God doesn't have a personality disorder or bipolar disorder, His wrath still abides on those who take part in this rebellion.

 

[BlessedPeace]

The Deacon's gay son passed away.

He contracted AIDS.

His obituary reported his family and friends grieve the loss. He was a proud gay man.

Now the Deacon's gay son is awaiting the judgement of God. And there's not a rainbow flag anywhere.

 

[Christian Soldier]

The Deacon's gay son passed away.

He contracted AIDS.

His obituary reported his family and friends grieve the loss. He was a proud gay man.

Now the Deacon's gay son is awaiting the judgement of God. And there's not a rainbow flag anywhere.

Jesus described the waiting room, where those awaiting the final judgement as being very hot. The story of Lazarus and the rich man was not a parable, Jesus described them as actual people and the rich man went to a very hot place when he died.

The Bible describes the final judgement where the condemned are cast into the lake of fire, and the saved people receive their immortal glorified sinless body.

I just wanted to mention this to make sure you don't believe in soul sleep, as many denominations erroneously teach.