The view of the "Gentleman God" who honors human will above His own.
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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St. SteVen said:
Deprive?
Are you sure you want a free will? What good does it do?
Don't you believe that the vast majority will misuse their free will, thus condemning themselves to an eternity in hell?
A good parent doesn't send a whole school of kindergartners to play in the freeway because two or three might survive. Right?
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Deprive?
Are you sure you want a free will? What good does it do?
How so?
Don't you believe that the vast majority will misuse their free will, thus condemning themselves to an eternity in hell?
A good parent doesn't send a whole school of kindergartners to play in the freeway because two or three might survive. Right?
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Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
We are only in hell until we repent, as I understand it. If someone wants to spend eternity in hell, I guess that's his right.
Beebster
Member
Absolutely.
If he had free will why ask his Father; he could've taken the cup away himself, no?
Peace.
St. SteVen said:
Are you sure?
Luke 22:42 NIV
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
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Are you sure?
Luke 22:42 NIV
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
He says he has a will in that verse, "... yet not my will, but yours be done.”
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Beebster
Member
Yes we all have will; just not free will.
Jesus was praying that he not be put to death but he knew exactly whose will is to be done.
He was, at that time, in the heart of the earth.
Do you view hell as an attractive alternative to heaven? Not a bad place if you prefer to be unrepentant?
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Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Sin gets us into trouble. If I rob a bank, I go to prison. I probably won't rob a bank a second time.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
As I said in my last post, sin gets us into trouble. I believe that is what hell is - trouble. So, no, hell is not an attractive alternative to heaven in my opinion.
How could you write this then?
Why would someone want to spend eternity in hell?
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Beebster
Member
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Mat 12:40)
Jesus rarely spoke plainly, yet most believe he he did. Most believe he was in the tomb for three days and three nights; he was not.
Peace.
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Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
To answer your first question, I guess a person can spend eternity in hell, if that's what they want to do.
To answer your second question, I would say sin has an addictive nature. Even if a person realizes sin is turning their life into a nightmare, they still have difficulty resisting its temptation.
Perhaps we need to consider the timeline of these events. Jesus prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane was before his arrest.
The arrest was before the crucifixion. His time in the heart of the earth was before his resurrection. Makes sense?
I agree. Jesus was laid in an ABOVE ground tomb. The heart of the earth was Hades, the realm of the dead.
1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, Ephesians 4:8-10 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.” 9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.
Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
You just chose to come to the forum .
That's your free will choice.
So, what is "free will".. ??????????????????? = its the power of choice., and you'll make hundreds of those today...
You'll choose what you eat, what you think about, what you do, and what you will post next.
See all those Choices?
That's your free will.
I think they call it hell because it's a place you wouldn't to stay in for more than ten seconds. We learn something about burns at a very young age. No one leaves their hand on a hot stove until they find out whether they like it or not. Ten seconds in hell would be enough for anyone to get the message. So why is it claimed to be eternal? What sort of sadistic monster would create such a place?
And here you are saying they can leave when they want, or stay if they prefer?
That works on this side of the afterlife, but what would be the point on the other side? Do you imagine the afterlife being full of the temptations and opportunities to sin that we experience here?
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Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
We can speculate about what God is going to do to us, based on what we read in the Bible or what people tell us about God. Or we can get to know him by praying constantly, as Paul instructed (1 Thessalonians 5:17), and learn from him.
Are you claiming that God told you that staying in hell is an option for those who were sent there? And that it is pleasant enough that some may choose that as a better option than heaven?
That POV seems to hinge on the "blame the victim" claim that many choose in order to whitewash the hell doctrine, thus absolving God of His sovereign responsibility for creating and maintaining the most sadistic treatment of humans imaginable. No earthly tyrant can compare to the horror that Christians willingly blame God for.
--- Parody ---
Demon: Welcome to hell.
Resident: What a horrible place.
Demon: Thank you. We do our best.
Resident: Where are you taking me?
Demon: That depends.
Resident: Depends on what?
Demon: Would you prefer smoking, or nonsmoking?
Resident: Are you serious?
Demon: No. You need to get a sense of humor.
/
Beebster
Member
No it was just a choice based on circumstance.
Really?
Animals make choices.
Computers make choices.
Robots make choices.
No, I don't have free will and neither do you.
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