What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

[christsavedme]

In a previous topic we explored why the baptized believers in Samaria hadn't received the Holy Spirit.

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

The typical response to the question about the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, is tongues.
But when I read the book of the Acts of the Apostles, I see it is not limited to tongues.
I conclude that any manifestation of the Holy Spirit could be the initial evidence.

Would you limit the initial evidence to speaking in tongues?

Here are the scriptures that led to my conclusions on this.

Acts 10:46 NIV
For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God. ...

Acts 19:6 NIV
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them,
and they spoke in tongues[a] and prophesied.

/

The most widely recognized evidence s the phenomenon of speaking in tongues.

In Acts 2:4, we read, “All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.” This moment marked the first public manifestation of the Holy Spirit’s outpouring, and the ability to speak in languages previously unknown to the speakers served as a powerful sign of the Spirit’s presence and activity.

Other instances in the Book of Acts support this view. For example, in Acts 10:44-46, when the Holy Spirit fell upon Cornelius and his household, those present heard them “speaking in tongues and extolling God.” Similarly, in Acts 19:6, when Paul laid his hands on the believers in Ephesus, they “spoke in tongues and prophesied.”

Speaking in tongues is a significant and visible sign, but it is essential to remember that the Holy Spirit’s presence manifests in various ways. The Apostle Paul, in his letters, particularly in 1 Corinthians 12-14, speaks of diverse gifts of the Spirit, such as prophecy, healing, and wisdom, indicating that the evidence of the Spirit’s baptism may also include these gifts.

Pope Francis, in his pastoral care, emphasizes the fruits of the Holy Spirit as described in Galatians 5:22-23: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. These fruits are the essential signs of a life transformed by the Holy Spirit, reflecting Christ’s character and mission in the world.

 

[Taken]

Again, it started way back with Jesus, baptized dunk in water and arose, hence the Holy Ghost descended on Him. From then on no one else were baptized in the Holy Ghost but only in water, since Jesus haven't ascended yet.

Only on the day of Pentecost as promised, the Apostles received the Holy Ghost. Next, the Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Ghost, even in churches these gifts were used orderly.

Water is an OUTWARD sign of CLEANSING, visible to the Human Eye, to observe the OUTWARD cleansing, AS AN “implied indication” of an INWARD PURIFICATION.

Humans (a KIND of Terrestrial Being created out of it’s intended habitat, Earth, ie Dry Land)… Whose Human tendency IS…to “Primarily” Rely ON what it Believes, BY what the Human EYES CAN SEE…
Secondary “senses”… Hearing, Smelling, Tasting, Touching, bolster the primary SEEING effect, FOR the human to LAND ON A (freely formed idea, decision, choice) OF WHAT they believe….

AND such Human thereafter HAS the “OPTION” to “KEEP” his Belief … INTERNAL, to himself … OR USE his “sense” of VOICE, to openly DECLARE his BELIEF.

Interestingly…
God “Created” manKIND…the FORM, (BODY)
AND THEN “Made” the “FORM” / “BODY’S”
HEAD’S (SEVEN HOLES)…operative…expressly FOR Communication and Sustainability FOR the Life of the Human.
2 eyes to see…
2 nostrils to smell…
2 ears to hear…
1 mouth…(with a tongue to taste), and speak.

Each of those things, (setting somewhat aside the “speaking” and rather highlighting the “tasting”….are Primarily for RECEIVING Knowledge, Information….

The “SPEAKING”…From the Beginning of ManKIND…was Primarily, Gods Order and Way, Vested IN God, FOR HIS method to Communicate with ManKIND. (Without the ability of ManKind to see, smell, taste, touch, God.

And the brief mention of the (EXIT HOLE), located (Not in the HEAD), rather the lower end of the Body, (trunk), called the Anus, expressly for WASTE to exit the body.

Man with 2 ears, and 1 mouth, is a natural indication, to DO more Listening, rather than Speaking.
And the Listening, from the Beginning, has primarily been “suggested, implied, advocated, promoted….for the MOST advantageous consequence and result…to LISTEN TO the Word of God.”

(We who study, know the history. Natural man is naturally wired to trust, believe, what he sees, first, above, over what he hears…
And…
God “remedied” THAT Obstical…When He SENT HIS Word Forth OUT OF His Mouth, IN a BODY, God Prepared, in the Likeness “AS” a human man, TO Earth, expressly FOR Human men TO SEE…then THEN Listen to.
(Expressly revealed, According to Gods Approved Scripture.)

Water…is an INDICATOR…of CLEANSING…primarily to “SATISFY” the “EYES” of Humans, WHO STILL, naturally rely on BELIEVING “if, when, after” SEEING.

Human EYES, Anciently, Historically and to this DAY…ARE easily impressed, easily tend to BELIEVE, easily tend to TRUST what they CAN SEE.

The Earth was “cleansed” with Water..(flood).
Yet we CAN observe, the temporary result.

The Pharisees were “cleansed” with Water…
Yet we CAN observe, (read) the tongue lashing Jesus Himself gave them, Parading themselves as pious, yet filthy and devious on the INSIDE.

Water is an “INDICATOR”, to satisfy the EYES of men.

Jesus DID NOT require “a water baptism”…
Yet those men observing, immediately “SAW” a dove “UPON” Jesus….and “HEARD” a VOICE From Heaven…”REVEALING”… the POWER of God before the eyes of men.
(Did “those” observing men, “understand” they were “LITERALLY” observing “the POWER of God, “in the likeness as a man”?
Likely Not…(Knowledge comes First…Understanding of the Knowledge comes much later.)

God Himself … BOTH;
A CONSUMING Fire…and A PURIFYING Fire
Every Human, SHALL experience ONE or the OTHER.

God Bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[St. SteVen]

The most widely recognized evidence s the phenomenon of speaking in tongues.

In Acts 2:4, we read, “All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.” This moment marked the first public manifestation of the Holy Spirit’s outpouring, and the ability to speak in languages previously unknown to the speakers served as a powerful sign of the Spirit’s presence and activity.

Other instances in the Book of Acts support this view. For example, in Acts 10:44-46, when the Holy Spirit fell upon Cornelius and his household, those present heard them “speaking in tongues and extolling God.” Similarly, in Acts 19:6, when Paul laid his hands on the believers in Ephesus, they “spoke in tongues and prophesied.”

Speaking in tongues is a significant and visible sign, but it is essential to remember that the Holy Spirit’s presence manifests in various ways. The Apostle Paul, in his letters, particularly in 1 Corinthians 12-14, speaks of diverse gifts of the Spirit, such as prophecy, healing, and wisdom, indicating that the evidence of the Spirit’s baptism may also include these gifts.

Pope Francis, in his pastoral care, emphasizes the fruits of the Holy Spirit as described in Galatians 5:22-23: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. These fruits are the essential signs of a life transformed by the Holy Spirit, reflecting Christ’s character and mission in the world.

Agree. Welcome to the forum.

]

 

[Taken]

What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

Personally regarding an individual…
I would say…
Such a person WHO …doubted. denied…
* After receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit it is no longer possible for him to doubt or deny.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[St. SteVen]

What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

Personally regarding an individual…
I would say…
Such a person WHO …doubted. denied…
* After receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit it is no longer possible for him to doubt or deny.

Glory to God,
Taken

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

]

 

[Taken]

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Baptism of the Hoy Spirit is Gods SEED, Gods TRUTH, Gods SPIRIT “WITH-IN” a man…

1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

2 Tim 2:
[13] If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[St. SteVen]

Baptism of the Hoy Spirit is Gods SEED, Gods TRUTH, Gods SPIRIT “WITH-IN” a man…

1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

2 Tim 2:
[13] If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

What do you make of this? (see below)
Your definition of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit does not agree with Jesus' definition.

Acts 1:4-5 NIV
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.
5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”

]

 

[Taken]

What do you make of this? (see below)
Your definition of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit does not agree with Jesus' definition.
[/QUOTE

You didn’t present anything to the contrary of what I said.

Acts 1:4-5 NIV
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.
5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”

That is telling them shortly they would receive Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2: 1-4 is them receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1: 4-5 does not reveal or contradict what ALL receipt of the Gift of the Holy Spirit includes.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[St. SteVen]

Taken said:
Acts 1: 4-5 does not reveal or contradict what ALL receipt of the Gift of the Holy Spirit includes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Didn't they already have the Holy Spirit? The Baptism with the Holy Spirit was a subsequent experience.

John 20:22 NIV
And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else. Acts 8:14-17 NIV When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that...

www.christianityboard.com

]

 

[Davy]

In a previous topic we explored why the baptized believers in Samaria hadn't received the Holy Spirit.

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

The typical response to the question about the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, is tongues.
But when I read the book of the Acts of the Apostles, I see it is not limited to tongues.
I conclude that any manifestation of the Holy Spirit could be the initial evidence.

Would you limit the initial evidence to speaking in tongues?

Here are the scriptures that led to my conclusions on this.

Acts 10:46 NIV
For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God. ...

Acts 19:6 NIV
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them,
and they spoke in tongues[a] and prophesied.

/

What you are saying about "tongues" reveals that you do not actually understand just what the cloven tongue of Pentecost is, and what it manifested as (i.e., known languages of the world).

How would those with Peter hearing those Gentiles speaking in tongues know they were praising God, if it were not in known languages they already understood?

To 'prophesy' means to teach according to Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 12-14. It means to declare The Word of God in known language. Acts 2 reveals everyone present heard the Apostles speak in their own languages of birth, even in the very dialect of the towns where the multitudes were from. That is how the cloven tongue of Pentecost manifested.

And per the Greek of 1 Corinthians 14, the word "unknown" in the KJV phrase "unknown tongue" is NOT in the Greek manuscripts.

 

[Fred J]

John 20:22 NIV
And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Yet there's no account, the Holy Ghost entered them as He breathe on them. Jesus also said to them only when he leaves then the Comforter can come. Only on the day of Pentecost they experienced the promise taking place, and immediately went out ministering the Gospel.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
John 20:22 NIV
And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Yet there's no account, the Holy Ghost entered them as He breathe on them.

So... John 20:22 is a nothing-burger?

Jesus also said to them only when he leaves then the Comforter can come.

The events of John 20:22 happened after his resurrection. And the Comforter would be an ongoing thing.

Only on the day of Pentecost they experienced the promise taking place, and immediately went out ministering the Gospel.

The account says no such thing. ("... immediately went out ministering the Gospel.")

]

 

[Fred J]

St. SteVen said:
John 20:22 NIV
And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

So... John 20:22 is a nothing-burger?

Cheese burger!

Usually Jesus breathe the breath of life (Genesis 2:7), and i believe He breathe the breath of life eternal from the Holy Ghost on them (John 6:63).

When apparently the Holy Ghost is only to come unto them once Jesus depart ascends into Heaven.

John 16:
7. "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you."

Next verses on, what the Comforter does, does he not through them minister to the world the Gospel?

The events of John 20:22 happened after his resurrection. And the Comforter would be an ongoing thing.

It is obvious, but then again, If He go not away, the Comforter will not come unto them.

The account says no such thing. ("... immediately went out ministering the Gospel.")

Acts 2:
4. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under Heaven.
6. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Did it take them one month later to minister the Gospel, or according to scripture happened immediately?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
The account says no such thing. ("... immediately went out ministering the Gospel.")

Acts 2:
4. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under Heaven.
6. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Did it take them one month later to minister the Gospel, or according to scripture happened immediately?

Thanks for proving my point.

What do you make of this? Were they ministering in the flash?
Healing the sick and casting out demons? (vs 9 and 17)

Luke 10:1-9, 17 NIV
After this the Lord appointed seventy-two[a] others and
sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go.
2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.
Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.
3 Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves.
4 Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.
5 “When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’
6 If someone who promotes peace is there, your peace will rest on them;
if not, it will return to you.
7 Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you,
for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.
8 “When you enter a town and are welcomed, eat what is offered to you.
9 Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’

17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”

]

 

[St. SteVen]

Cheese burger!

LOL
Now that's funny!

The Ultimate Treasure Hunt - Kevin Dedmon

Wondering if anyone else on the forum has read this book or has experience in The Ultimate Treasure Hunt?

www.christianityboard.com

/

 

[Behold]

The only 100% certain "initial evidence..... or some would call it, "spiritual baptism" is that the person is become "born again".

That's the only real proof, that is a certainty that a person has become a : CHRISTian.

The rest, is not proof., however, being born again, can't be faked, tho a person can pretend they are born again...sure.

Many do this...

But God knows if you're not... even if you are water baptized... "speak in tongues" (prayer language), and speak perfect "christianese", and "koine Greek".

 

[St. SteVen]

... being born again, can't be faked, tho a person can pretend they are born again...sure.

LOL

]

 

[Fred J]

St. SteVen said:
The account says no such thing. ("... immediately went out ministering the Gospel.")

Thanks for proving my point.

What do you make of this? Were they ministering in the flash?
Healing the sick and casting out demons? (vs 9 and 17)

i did not prove your point but on the contrary correcting and verifying the scripture doesn't contradict itself. For there are simple explanation to what possibly would have taken place before time.

And now you've jump to Luke, when am still referring to Acts that you doubted didn't take place immediately. Again. as the Holy Ghost came upon them on Pentecost, they were ministering the Gospel in other languages. Many who heard them speak in their own mother tongue were confounded, coming out of Galileans?

About 3,000 of them were saved at the same time, and the account says such things in immediate action, unless you're in dilemma.

Luke 10:1-9, 17 NIV
After this the Lord appointed seventy-two[a] others and
sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go.
2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.
Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.
3 Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves.
4 Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.
5 “When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’
6 If someone who promotes peace is there, your peace will rest on them;
if not, it will return to you.
7 Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you,
for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.
8 “When you enter a town and are welcomed, eat what is offered to you.
9 Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’

17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”

Readers,
According to the account of the Gospel, as long as Jesus is still with them, they will not be able to receive the Holy Ghost. But Jesus was able to impart partially the power of the Holy Ghost in them, to proclaim the Gospel and perform miracles.

This is in conjunction to Jesus saying; 'Flocks without a Shepherd' of 'The harvest is plenty but the laborers are few'.

 

[St. SteVen]

And now you've jump to Luke, when am still referring to Acts that you doubted didn't take place immediately.

Pentecost means 50 days. 50 days from what?

[

 

[Fred J]

Pentecost means 50 days. 50 days from what?[

To the Jews 50 days from Passover, even though the exact is from 7 weeks or 49 days from Passover.

And in Christendom 50 days from Easter, so, what has this got to do with Acts ch. 2?

Only on the day of Pentecost, they were filled with the Holy Ghost. And gifted in cloven tongues of divided languages, they were ministering the Gospel from the upper room terrace.

Prior to when Jesus was with them, they received from Jesus partial impartation of the power from the Holy Ghost. Therefore what is the issue do you want to present on the contrary?