The Lord will fight for Israel and Jerusalem; Zech. 12

[Marty fox]

You do not have a single witness to say Jesus came and gathered his elect in ,70 ad.None.


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.


If the elect are the ones raptured then why would they have to flee or pray that it isn't the winter or the Sabath?

 

[tailgator]

The last three chapter of Zechariah repeatedly state "in that day" and each chapter shows first advent events thus they talking about the first centuryn

False.No one was consumed in the first century.

 

[tailgator]

Matthew 24
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.


If the elect are the ones raptured then why would they have to flee or pray that it isn't the winter or the Sabath?

The elect don't flee.Unbelievers do.
The elect are told to lift up their heads.

Luke 21
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.



The people who flee for the mountains will hide in the caves of the mountains and say fall on us.

Luke 23:30
Then “’they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!"’

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb


These are wicked people who hide in the caves of the mountains on the day of the Lord.

 

[tailgator]

According to Peter the first century was those days

Acts2
14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’[c]

Jesus also shows us that He comes in judgement at different times

Revelation
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Once you see that the bible isn't always literal you will understand prophecy better.

False
Jesus said he will come once.Notanybtimes as you claim..

Mathew 24

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



Jesus said he would come once.He did not say he would come many times.

 

[Marty fox]

False.No one was consumed in the first century.

Who said anything about being consumed? You keep commenting to my post but haven't addresses any of my points

I keep providing scriptures to back up my post so its not just my ideas but how would you answer the issue of those three chapters stating "in that day" and showing first advent events?

How can that be if it was meaning thousands of years later?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Jesus said he would come in the clouds of heaven when these things happen.
Not 40 years before they happen.

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.



The day of the redemption of the purchased possession was not in 70 ad.Jesus did not come in the clouds and gather his elect in 70 ad.

We are almost up the highlighted point in time below…
Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

[tailgator]

I never said and I don't believe that the last trumpet was sounded in 70AD

The Trump which is sounded at Christs coming when his elect is gathered is the last trump.

This is when the carcass is gathered.

Mathew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Marty fox]

The elect don't flee.Unbelievers do.
The elect are told to lift up their heads.

Luke 21
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.



The people who flee for the mountains will hide in the caves of the mountains and say fall on us.

Luke 23:30
Then “’they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!"’

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb


These are wicked people who hide in the caves of the mountains on the day of the Lord.

Good you quoted Luke 23 so who was Jesus talking to when He said that the generation and women who were alive and watched Him die or people thousands of years later?

Luke 23
26 As the soldiers led him away, they seized Simon from Cyrene, who was on his way in from the country, and put the cross on him and made him carry it behind Jesus. 27 A large number of people followed him, including women who mourned and wailed for him. 28 Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ 30 Then

“‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!”
and to the hills, “Cover us!”’[b]

 

[tailgator]

Who said anything about being consumed? You keep commenting to my post but haven't addresses any of my points

I keep providing scriptures to back up my post so its not just my ideas but how would you answer the issue of those three chapters stating "in that day" and showing first advent events?

How can that be if it was meaning thousands of years later?

The word of God says the nations that attack Jerusalem are consumed.No one was consumed in the first century.

The Lord did not fight against anyone in the first century and no one was consumed.
None of zech 14 was fulfilled in the first century


Zech 14
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth

 

[Marty fox]

The Trump which is sounded at Christs coming when his elect is gathered is the last trump.

This is when the carcass is gathered.

Mathew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

As Jesus shoes us below the ones taken aren't raptured they are the ones whose carcass an eaten

Yes the rapture is the last trumpet but this isn't it

Luke 17
26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e]

37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.

He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

 

[tailgator]

Good you quoted Luke 23 so who was Jesus talking to when He said that the generation and women who were alive and watched Him die or people thousands of years later?

Luke 23
26 As the soldiers led him away, they seized Simon from Cyrene, who was on his way in from the country, and put the cross on him and made him carry it behind Jesus. 27 A large number of people followed him, including women who mourned and wailed for him. 28 Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ 30 Then

“‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!”
and to the hills, “Cover us!”’[b]

Your children is offspring.Descendents.

Jesus is prophecyjng about their descendents which will hide underground after the armed forces place the abomination of desolation consuming everyone in Jerusalem.Them outside Jerusalem will flee to the mountains to hide in caves.

No one was hiding underground in the first century.The abomination that causes desolation was not invented till the 20th century.

 

[Marty fox]

The word of God says the nations that attack Jerusalem are consumed.No one was consumed in the first century.

The Lord did not fight against anyone in the first century and no one was consumed.
None of zech 14 was fulfilled in the first century


Zech 14
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth

Rome was judged eventually

 

[tailgator]

As Jesus shoes us below the ones taken aren't raptured they are the ones whose carcass an eaten

Yes the rapture is the last trumpet but this isn't it

Luke 17
26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e]

37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.

He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

So your saying Jesus elect are damned to death and eternal punishment?

 

[tailgator]

Rome was judged eventually

False.Rome was given a saviour that anyone who believes in that saviour would have eternal life.

Rome was not punished at all.
If anything,it was converted.

 

[Marty fox]

Your children is offspring.Descendents.

Jesus is prophecyjng about their descendents which will hide underground after the armed forces place the abomination of desolation consuming everyone in Jerusalem.Them outside Jerusalem will flee to the mountains to hide in caves.

No one was hiding underground in the first century.The abomination that causes desolation was not invented till the 20th century.

Jesus told the women to weep for their children and themselves

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Please do not just quote scripture to me with no commentary. I don't know what you are intending to say by quoting this verse and I'd rather not have to guess.

You had said:

And I replied by saying "He could if He wanted, but scripture doesn't teach that.". I was not saying God never makes anyone blind for His purposes, I was saying that's not what He will do after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

I like to keep people guessing

Blindness IN PART is UNTIL....

And it never says the blindness would be completely removed. You conveniently left the "IN PART" part out. What you're not getting is that God intended for Israel to be blinded in part (remnant saved, the rest blinded) until the end of time because the ones blinded do have the opportunity to be saved. But, the way God wants them to be saved is to be provoked to jealousy by the Gentiles just like what we see described in Romans 11:11-14. And you're not getting that verse 26 is referring to spiritual Israel and not the nation of Israel.

Blindness “in part”does not mean partial blindness. It just means they were “partly”made blind for a reason, and “partly”because they did not believe.

 

[tailgator]

Jesus told the women to weep for their children and themselves

Then their children will be hiding underground after the abomination of desolation. Is placed in Jerusalem causing the earth to quake and the heavens departing from the earth like a scroll being rolled together.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?




This was not fulfilled in the first century.
The abomination that causes desolation was not invented till the 20th century.

 

[Marty fox]

So your saying Jesus elect are damned to death and eternal punishment?

No I didn't say that at all I quoted Jesus saying that the ones taken aren't the rapture but taken in judgement

 

[Marty fox]

False.Rome was given a saviour that anyone who believes in that saviour would have eternal life.

Rome was not punished at all.
If anything,it was converted.

Rome fell

 

[Marty fox]

Then their children will be hiding underground after the abomination of desolation. Is placed in Jerusalem causing the earth to quake and the heavens departing from the earth like a scroll being rolled together.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?




This was not fulfilled in the first century.
The abomination that causes desolation was not invented till the 20th century.

The sixth seal lines up with Matthew 24

I believe that the Roman army was the Abomination what do you believe it is?