The absurdity of Pretrib logic

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WPM

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I think I have done this enough, well, way more than enough. Tell you what, be happy to do it one more time if you go to your masters and tell them you will no longer be denying, denying and denying. Additionally when you are answered don't pretend it didn't happen.

Throw away the playbook.
LOL. You have obviously nothing. The reader will see that. What are you scared of? Every text you have put on the table has been shown to be Amillennial.

Like i said, the case has been strongly proven. There is no rebuttal. The Posttrib argument is watertight. The war has been won here.

It is time for you to change!
 

CadyandZoe

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LOL. You have denied that many times. Did you just now change your mind? You have denied the deity of Christ and you know it.
I denied the deity of Christ. I did not deny that Jesus is God.
Why are you lying about me supposedly lying? What is wrong with you?

Do you believe that Jesus is God and is eternal and created all things?
The Bible teaches that Yahweh God is eternal and created all things.
The Bible teaches that Jesus is the exact representation of God. "He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature . . ." (Hebrews 1:3) John says that Jesus is the exegesis of God in human form. (John 1:18) Jesus says of himself to Philipp, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)

Jesus is not a deity; He is man. (Hebrews 2:5-9)
A deity is eternal and cannot die. But Jesus died for our sins and therefore he is not deity.

The idea that Jesus is both human and deity is a false teaching that came from the Catholic Church in the 300's.
 

WPM

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No. Yahweh is the creator.
Yahweh is identified as the Creator of this World. However, the New Testament repeatedly demonstrates that Jesus Christ is the Creator. The only way that Yahweh could have done these things “alone” or ‘by Himself’ is if Jesus is Yahweh.

The New Testament narrative, in John 1:1-5, says, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”

Verse 10-14 continues, He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

This passage shows, in unmistakable language, that “the Word” is Christ. It reveals the King of Glory in all His marvellous provision, purpose and power. The reading outlines His eternal pre-existence, powerfully revealing Him as the eternal Son of God; “The same was in the beginning with God” (v 2). Whilst, Christ was man of very man, He was also God of very God. Verse 1 succinctly says, “the Word was God.” Therefore, as the second person of the Trinity, He was the eternal Creator of this world.” Verse 10 tells us, “the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”

I Corinthians 8:6 says: “there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”

This is a common trait performed by the cults when engaging with them. They change the original words to mean the opposite to what they are. They butcher the original language. The Greek word dia is actually a primary preposition denoting: "the channel of an act" (Strong's). Jesus was the channel whom the Father worked through. He was the Creator. How do you sleep at night knowing you are going to have to face Jesus some day and account for twisting the Word of God and deceiving people?

The Bible acknowledges Jesus as the Word, the Creator.

Ephesians 3:9 tells us: “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.”

Colossians 1:13-17 says: “Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

This passage, which is speaking of Jesus, tells us that “all things were created by him, and for him” which would clearly make Him God.

Hebrews 1:2 &10 says, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom (or dia hos) also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.”

Firstly, as Strong’s correctly explains: the word dia (which is rightly interpreted “by” here) is “a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act.” In the case we are looking at it tells us that it was through the channel or agency of the “Son” that God “made the worlds.” This is clear and simple for those that don’t need to reinterpret it. The word hos (rendered “whom”) is simply “the relatively (sometimes demonstrative) pronoun, who, which, what, that.” There is absolutely no ground to negate the meaning of the commonly used Greek words. They show what repeated Scripture tells us that Jesus is God/Creator.

These verses show the pre-existence of Christ the Son of God the Creator.

This is the only time in the Bible that this word is found.

The phrase “express image” derives from the lone Greek word charakter which means what it says: “character.” Christ is “the brightness of” God’s “glory” and the “charakter of his person.” Christ is the physical manifestation or representation of the invisible God. He is indeed the “express image” of Almighty God. Jesus is God. God physically is expressed in the person of Christ.

Hebrews 2:9-10 declares: we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.”

Revelation 3:14 declares: “And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.”

The designation “faithful and true” belongs to Christ. We see that in the depiction of the Second Coming in Revelation 19:11: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.”

Revelation 4:10-11 declares: “The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
 
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WPM

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What a liar you are. And judging by your response, of course you did not even read or exegete Hebrews 1:1-4 or else you couldn't have said what you did.

So how about you you exegete those verses in Hebrews for us.
Is Jesus God?
 

The Light

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LOL. You have obviously nothing. The reader will see that. What are you scared of? Every text you have put on the table has been shown to be Amillennial.

LOL. You ask a plethora of questions that have been answered before. Then you demand to be answered again. And you are unable to answer any questions.

Here's one you are unable to answer. Where is your rapture in the book of Revelation? Chapter and verse?
Like i said, the case has been strongly proven. There is no rebuttal. The Posttrib argument is watertight. The war has been won here.

It is time for you to change!
Thanks for the laugh. Your master's must be proud that you are unable to answer anything, but you listened to their instruction deny, deny, deny.
 
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The Light

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You do realize that people are watching on and can judge for themselves who is avoiding the Scriptures, arguments and posts?
Yeah. I'm pretty some have caught on to the fact that you are changing scripture to protect a fallen doctrine birthed by unbelieving men. Deny, deny, deny. Pretend it didn't happen........................but in your heart you know it did. And there are five foolish.
 

WPM

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I know the difference between many and all. If you don't try school.
Really?

Jesus explains in John 5:28-29, “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

Does this mean all?
 

WPM

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Yeah. I'm pretty some have caught on to the fact that you are changing scripture to protect a fallen doctrine birthed by unbelieving men. Deny, deny, deny. Pretend it didn't happen........................but in your heart you know it did. And there are five foolish.
Quite the opposite. You are talking gibberish. Where is your Scripture? Are you scared to present it now?
 

WPM

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LOL. You ask a plethora of questions that have been answered before. Then you demand to be answered again. And you are unable to answer any questions.

Here's one you are unable to answer. Where is your rapture in the book of Revelation? Chapter and verse?

Thanks for the laugh. Your master's must be proud that you are unable to answer anything, but you listened to their instruction deny, deny, deny.
This is typical of your posts (and that of your fellow Pretribbers here): they are all words and accusations but no biblical substance.
 

The Light

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Really?

Jesus explains in John 5:28-29, “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

Does this mean all?
Absolutely John 5 means ALL.

And Daniel 12 means many.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

This is what we have been discussing.

So does Daniel 12:2 mean many?
 

The Light

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Quite the opposite. You are talking gibberish. Where is your Scripture? Are you scared to present it now?
What specific question do you have? I'm not going to answer a list of questions that have already been answered.

You have yet to answer this question. Where is your rapture in Revelation?
 

The Light

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This is typical of your posts (and that of your fellow Pretribbers here): they are all words and accusations but no biblical substance.
Typical of my posts is disproving the words you say with scripture. How is it that you are unable to show your rapture in the book of Revelation?
 

WPM

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Absolutely John 5 means ALL.
Ok, we are getting places.

So, when Jesus comes then every single human being is going to be raised from the grave with the sound of His voice? This represents a general resurrection.
 

CadyandZoe

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Yahweh is identified as the Creator of this World. However, the New Testament repeatedly demonstrates that Jesus Christ is the Creator.
No, The New Testament identifies Yahweh as the creator, and it identifies Jesus as a man who is the image of Yahweh.
The only way that Yahweh could have done these things “alone” or ‘by Himself’ is if Jesus is Yahweh.
Yahweh created everything alone. Jesus is a man who is the image of Yahweh.

The New Testament narrative, in John 1:1-5, says, In the beginning was the Word,
In the beginning was the word. Jesus was born to the virgin Mary. A man is not a word.
 

Douggg

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What are you even talking about, Doug? Who said everyone will be dead at that point?
Your fellow Amil WPM wrote, ...

"LOL. Talk about butchering Scripture! Pretrib is becoming more farcical by the moment. The reality is, you see what we see: there is one final future coming of the lord that is absolutely climatic. No one survives it!"
 
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