Miracles, healing, tongues, and the interpretation of tongues were temporary sign gifts limited to the apostolic age and have, therefore, ceased.

[Johann]

AN INTERESTING LETTER

MY dear Brother: I thank God and take courage, because of the marvelous light that is now shining upon my so darkened horizon; and, praise God, it is to shine brighter and brighter unto the perfect day. Running from one denomination to another, thinking myself satisfied and soon finding myself more thirsty than ever, oh how I was craving for the real water of life! At last I landed among the tongues-people, who got under the power. I cried to God night and day to give me this new tongue. I was sure now that if I could only get this tongue I should always be satisfied. I starved myself for days and weeks in order to "get down flesh." I was soon a veritable skeleton and, of course, commenced "to shake" from nervousness. Then the tongues-people commenced to operate on my jaws and soon I was declared of the interpreter as "speaking in a new tongue." I kept fasting, kept nervous, kept shaking and kept "talking away" as long as I felt a nervous strain; I thought "the spirit" was upon me.

Yet under all this I am sure God saw my earnest heart, and sent me deliverance. Two sisters of the tongues-people were the cause. One, the foremost in the ranks of the tongues-movement, was under the power; the other had a vision. "I see a hand," said the sister. "It's a child's hand," said the sister under the power and supposed to be used by the Holy Ghost to answer all questions. "No, it is a grown person's hand," said the sister in her vision. "Ah, yes! (as correcting herself) the Savior's hand," said the sister under the power.

I was sitting listening to them, and I thought at the moment, "If the Holy Spirit is giving a vision to one and explaining it through another, would it not correspond?" At once the scales fell from my eyes, so to speak. From that time the demons lost their control over me more and more. Soon after, a friend handed me The Divine Plan of the Ages. I was offered this book six years before, but would not accept it, answering that my Bible was enough for me. He kept on advising me to read it, so at last I told him I would look it over. I had scarcely opened its pages when I saw things explained, according to the Scriptures, which I had long been looking for. I at once began to study it night and day. I can now say, "Glory to God in the highest."

One of the smallest of His little ones, C.J.J.

Present-Day Speaking in Tongues

Is it of God? Is it an Evidence of Immaturity? Is it Connected with Spiritism? Should Christians Shun it? "Whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease;...

www.biblestandard.com

 

[Johann]

Twenty Years in the Pentecostal Movement


In the summer of 1910 I was engaged in mission work. I was in charge of the Sunshine Mission in Dundee, Scotland. We were very happy in our work for souls were being saved and the workers enjoying a blessed fellowship. We fought not over doctrinal differences but laboured together for the salvation of precious souls.

About that time the “tongues movement” started in our city. It was then that I was told unless I received “the baptism” and “spoke with tongues”, I would not be raptured when the Lord returned for His Body.

Finally I made arrangements with the pastor of that Pentecostal assembly to attend one of the tarrying meetings. I had heard of all the wonderful things that were being done and the spiritual manifestations. Therefore, I went there with the expectation of receiving some real spiritual blessings.

On the night I attended the church, with a friend, it was only twenty-five minutes after I arrived that I received, what they termed, my “baptism”, I came through, speaking in “another tongue”.

I really had an experience; but to me it seemed that at times I was floating about on air. Several times I went off into a trance and they told me that I was “under the power”. I was. But not under Divine power. It was quite a different power. It was not long until I had many misgivings regarding the manifestations. I felt sure the experience was not scriptural but was afraid to say it was not of God, for fear that I would be found speaking against the Holy Spirit. Thousands today are being held in the unscriptural movement by this fear. So I went on in the Pentecostal movement, ministering for twelve years as a Pentecostal preacher in Canada and the United States. Many times, when alone, I felt convicted and longed to be delivered from Pentecostalism. I began to read articles against the movement, written by many of the leading Bible teachers. And I would go to hear some noted preacher speak, but he would condemn and criticize and would offer no sound scriptural corrective. I wanted scriptural proof of our delusion but received none. They were able to prove that some of the leaders in the movement did not live up to their testimony. But I know that could be proved concerning the leaders in other movements. Because I became thoroughly disgusted with some of the things that I had witnessed I felt led to resign from the movement. May I say that I found some of the finest people of God speaking in “tongues”. But I was sure that the Spirit of God would not cause people to behave as many of them did who were supposed to be under the power The Spirit surely was not responsible for such utterances and such confusion. Even separated from the Conference, I continued as pastor in a Pentecostal Church, looking for light. One day I was called to visit a very sick man. I took with me my anointing oil, expecting that I would be asked to pray for him, according to James 5:14. But he never asked me. That was the beginning of many wonderful hours of prayer with that saint of God. He asked me to wait and have lunch with him, so the I could get a message over the air he wanted very much I should hear. I waited. For the first time I heard Pastor J. C. O’Hair give one of his messages. That day he was speaking on the Epistle to the Galatians. I listened attentively, and for the first time I heard the message that was the means of my deliverance from the Pentecostal delusion. I shall never forget those verses,—Galatians 2:7 to 9: “But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For He that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles”).

I had never noticed these words in Galatians. I thought he was reading from another Bible. If what that man is saying is true I am preaching “another gospel”. Oh, that all Pentecostalists, as well as others who claim to be Fundamentalists, would only diligently and prayerfully read and understand Galatians 2:7 to 9. On returning home I took up my Bible; I looked up the passages and saw them in my own Bible. The light came to my soul. I was delivered. I studied the wonderful message of grace. I saw that I had been preaching the gospel of the kingdom. What a mixture I was giving out and expecting signs to follow. What deliverance, what blessed joy to be able to rightly divide the Word of truth and to preach the Unsearchable Riches of Christ, and the glorious message of redemption unfettered by Israel’s religion or Christendom’s traditions. There is only one cure for all such movements; and that is to “study to show thyself approved of God, rightly dividing the Word of truth”.

Our present-day program is neither the kingdom program of Matthew 10:5 to 8 nor that of Mark 16:14 to 18. Neither is it the program of Peter and the Eleven, in the Book of Acts. They were ministers of the circumcision, with the gospel of the circumcision. Our message is from Christ through Paul.

Twenty Years in the Pentecostal Movement

In the summer of 1910 I was engaged in mission work. I was in charge of the Sunshine Mission in Dundee, Scotland. We were very happy in our work for souls were being saved and the workers enjoying a blessed fellowship. We fought not over doctrinal differences but laboured together for the salvation

bereanbiblesociety.org

 

[Johann]

I cannot speak for Paul other than reiterating what you already quoted: I speak in tongues more than you all.
I will not change my experience nor my testimony based on your arguments.

First, not all Christians are given the same spiritual gift nor can we acquire spiritual gifts for ourselves merely because we desire them. God alone assigns spiritual gifts by the Spirit. Simply put, not every Christian has the same gift, and, therefore, it is impossible for every Christian to possess the gift of tongues (see 1Cor 12:30). Therefore, it is wrong for a church to teach believers they can (and must) acquire the gift of tongues, for this is impossible according to Scripture.

Secondly, in vs.27-31, Paul addresses a second mistake the Corinthian church made by elevating the gift of tongues above other gifts.

The church assigned the gift of speaking in tongues an inappropriate importance within the celebration of the body. The church made speaking in tongues the highest priority gift, but in reality, Paul teaches that speaking in tongues is the lowest priority gift.

In verse 28, Paul gives the correct order of importance for the expression of gifts within the Body. Paul's list in the original Greek language is presented as a hierarchical order, meaning that Paul was clearly setting forth an order of importance for the gifts of the Spirit. Specifically, Paul lists the gifts in diminishing order of importance moving down the list.

In verse 28, Paul begins with the most important gift in the church: the gift of apostleship. The gift of apostleship was a unique and rare gift given within the body of Christ, and only a few men met the strict test required for apostleship (i.e., having been appointed by Christ and having the power of miracles to prove the office). Since Jesus is no longer making personal appearances to commission new apostles in the church, the gift of apostleship is no longer available in the church, though it did exist in Paul's day. (For an in-depth explanation of the gift of Apostles, please see our Acts study.)

According to Paul, the highest priority spiritual gift within the Body today is the gift of prophecy (where it is truly operating) and then the gift of teaching. The church should seek this gift first. Ironically, speaking in tongues is to be given the lowest priority in the body of Christ. This is the exact opposite of what many modern-day movements are teaching!

Remember, according to Paul a Christian cannot obtain a certain spiritual gift that God has not already given, nor can a Christian be "coached" or taught a spiritual gift. Only God appoints spiritual gifts, and, therefore, we will only have the gifts God grants us according to His will at the time of our salvation.

Consequently, Paul's prioritized list of gifts cannot be a "wish list" for an individual Christian, who seeks to acquire new gifts. Instead, Paul's list teaches the church the proper priority for the expression of gifts within the gathering. The church gathering should emphasize the use of higher priority gifts (e.g., prophecy & teaching) over lesser spiritual gifts (e.g., speaking in tongues) because the greater gifts are more important to the spiritual health and maturity of the Christian.

Is speaking or praying in tongues Biblical? | Verse By Verse Ministry International

Explore the scriptural, historical, and theological arguments on speaking in tongues. Is it Biblical? Learn more with our in-depth analysis.

versebyverseministry.org

Just my perspective @amadeus

 

[amadeus]

I'm not here to argue brother. But even experiences need to be tested in light of Scripture

Justin Peters | Speaking in tongues of Angels? | By Refquotes | Facebook

Justin Peters | Speaking in tongues of Angels?

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Yes, in light of Scripture! Yes as we are in the Spirit and led by the Spirit. For many years I have strived to be there always. Daily I am into the Spirit, reading my Bibles and daily talking with God.

Without Him I am nothing.

Others must walk their own walk and talk with Him themselves. I will help and guide them if they need help and they need help and God gives me something useful to them. What am I? God knows!

 

[Johann]

This may as well be a state of the church statement--not that it is true. But because miracles are the measure of belief as Christ gave witness. Meaning, the seeming absence of miracles, does not mean they passed with the twelve apostles, but rather passed when people began to believe the foretold false teachers and their lies. Even so, not all are false teachers. Thus among the few, miracles continue, because in spite of the unbelief of many, the God of miracles never changes.

Anytime a Christian seeks for miracles and signs rather than for God's word they are moving in a dangerous direction. The church has always been subjected to false teachers promising personal revelation and performing signs. The Bible warns about these evil men, in particular:


2Pet. 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,
2Pet. 1:21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
2Pet. 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2Pet. 2:2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
2Pet. 2:3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

The Apostle John also warned about those who try to fool believers by their signs and prophecy:


1John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

We should avoid such people and seek the word of God. When we become students of God's word, we are taught by the Spirit to discern good from evil and press on to spiritual maturity (Heb 5:13-14).

We must rely on the context of Scripture to guide our interpretation, and by context we mean the entire Bible, particularly the New Testament. Here are some general guidelines we follow when relying on Biblical context to understanding how to interpret and apply Jesus' teaching:

1. Who did Jesus address with His comments? Did He repeat his comments to multiple audiences?
2. What application did Jesus make, if any?
3. How did Jesus' audience respond to the comments?
4. Do the New Testament authors repeat and extend Jesus' comments to a larger audience?
5. Do we see evidence of Jesus' comments at work in the Church today?

As an example, let's examine the passage from Mark 16 using these questions:

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
Mark 16:16 “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Mark 16:17 “These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Mark 16:19 So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.

1. Who did Jesus address with His comments? Did He repeat his comments to multiple audiences?

Jesus was speaking to the eleven immediately before His ascension. These were His last words to the Apostles. Therefore, He never spoke these words to other believers apart from these eleven men.

2. What application did Jesus make, if any?

Jesus says that these men should go into the world and preach the Gospel, and the signs He lists will "accompany" those who believe. The Greek word for "accompany" is parakoloutheo, which means "to follow closely to investigate."

Jesus wasn't saying that the new believers themselves would have such powers, but rather that when new believers are converted to belief, their conversions would be followed closely by miracles in order to satisfy those who might investigate the legitimacy of such conversions. This statement is perfectly consistent with the scene we saw in Acts 3, when Peter's conversion of the paralyzed man was "accompanied" by the man's supernatural healing.

So the application Jesus makes is that the Apostles should expect to see supernatural proof accompany their work as evangelists to validate their ministry among the people.

3. How did Jesus' audience respond to the comments?

Immediately, the Apostles began to follow Jesus' words of instruction. Peter and John began declaring the Gospel and producing the miracles Jesus described, beginning in Acts 2 and continuing throughout first century. Famously, Paul encounters a deadly snake in Acts 28:3-5, but he is not harmed by the bite. These experiences confirm that Jesus' immediate audience accepted Jesus' words as a literal truth for their lives and lived accordingly.

4. Do the New Testament authors repeat and extend Jesus' comments to a larger audience?

In a word, no. None of the New Testament authors ever teach Jesus' words as a universal truth for all believers. The letters from the Apostles give no authority to believers in general to speak in tongues, cast out demons, heal the sick or handle deadly animals without harm, etc.. Consequently, we should not assume to receive such gifts or powers without specific evidence that the Holy Spirit has chosen to gift us such powers.

On the other hand, we do know that men apart from the eleven Apostles in the early church were gifted to heal and cast out demons (i.e., Acts 8), but these men were also operating under the authority of the Apostles and within the time of the early church. Consequently, we should conclude from the context of Scripture that while such powers are possible outside the office of Apostle, they are not commonly available to believers today nor are believers encouraged to seek or expect such powers.

5. Do we see evidence of Jesus' comments at work in the Church today?

We rarely see such powers at work in the Body of Christ today, especially as a consequence of conversions. Remember, Jesus promised that these signs would "accompany" conversions. Though supernatural healing, demonic exorcism and other miracles do occur in the Church today from time to time, they are not the common experience when people come to faith. In the earliest days of the Church, they were commonly associated with conversions, but today they are not.

Since we know that such power must come from the Spirit, we can conclude that the Spirit has not purposed to make them as prevalently today as He once did in the early Church, which is in keeping with their intended purpose to validate the conversion within the early Church.

Yours in Christ Jesus

 

[Johann]

Yes, in light of Scripture! Yes as we are in the Spirit and led by the Spirit. For many years I have strived to be there always. Daily I am into the Spirit, reading my Bibles and daily talking with God.

Without Him I am nothing.

Others must walk their own walk and talk with Him themselves. I will help and guide them if they need help and they need help and God gives me something useful to them. What am I? God knows!

Correct--each one of us must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling brother and prayers unceasingly and study the Scriptures for ourselves as the Holy Spirit illuminates the words we read.
Ever read Miles Coverdale on how to study the holy writ?

 

[amadeus]

First, not all Christians are given the same spiritual gift nor can we acquire spiritual gifts for ourselves merely because we desire them. God alone assigns spiritual gifts by the Spirit. Simply put, not every Christian has the same gift, and, therefore, it is impossible for every Christian to possess the gift of tongues (see 1Cor 12:30). Therefore, it is wrong for a church to teach believers they can (and must) acquire the gift of tongues, for this is impossible according to Scripture.

Secondly, in vs.27-31, Paul addresses a second mistake the Corinthian church made by elevating the gift of tongues above other gifts.

The church assigned the gift of speaking in tongues an inappropriate importance within the celebration of the body. The church made speaking in tongues the highest priority gift, but in reality, Paul teaches that speaking in tongues is the lowest priority gift.

In verse 28, Paul gives the correct order of importance for the expression of gifts within the Body. Paul's list in the original Greek language is presented as a hierarchical order, meaning that Paul was clearly setting forth an order of importance for the gifts of the Spirit. Specifically, Paul lists the gifts in diminishing order of importance moving down the list.

In verse 28, Paul begins with the most important gift in the church: the gift of apostleship. The gift of apostleship was a unique and rare gift given within the body of Christ, and only a few men met the strict test required for apostleship (i.e., having been appointed by Christ and having the power of miracles to prove the office). Since Jesus is no longer making personal appearances to commission new apostles in the church, the gift of apostleship is no longer available in the church, though it did exist in Paul's day. (For an in-depth explanation of the gift of Apostles, please see our Acts study.)

According to Paul, the highest priority spiritual gift within the Body today is the gift of prophecy (where it is truly operating) and then the gift of teaching. The church should seek this gift first. Ironically, speaking in tongues is to be given the lowest priority in the body of Christ. This is the exact opposite of what many modern-day movements are teaching!

Remember, according to Paul a Christian cannot obtain a certain spiritual gift that God has not already given, nor can a Christian be "coached" or taught a spiritual gift. Only God appoints spiritual gifts, and, therefore, we will only have the gifts God grants us according to His will at the time of our salvation.

Consequently, Paul's prioritized list of gifts cannot be a "wish list" for an individual Christian, who seeks to acquire new gifts. Instead, Paul's list teaches the church the proper priority for the expression of gifts within the gathering. The church gathering should emphasize the use of higher priority gifts (e.g., prophecy & teaching) over lesser spiritual gifts (e.g., speaking in tongues) because the greater gifts are more important to the spiritual health and maturity of the Christian.

Is speaking or praying in tongues Biblical? | Verse By Verse Ministry International

Explore the scriptural, historical, and theological arguments on speaking in tongues. Is it Biblical? Learn more with our in-depth analysis.

versebyverseministry.org

Just my perspective @amadeus

I cannot read all of your...for me... too lengthy posts with understanding. Perhaps you are speaking the right things. God knows.

1co 12:31

But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way.

 

[amadeus]

Correct--each one of us must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling brother and prayers unceasingly and study the Scriptures for ourselves as the Holy Spirit illuminates the words we read.
Ever read Miles Coverdale on how to study the holy writ?

No, I have not read M. Coverdale. All of the good things to read are too much for me anymore. I do try, but my reading list will never be finished unless I live for many more years. I did listen once to Mr. Utley at your suggestion but things simply do not easily stick anymore. I will have to go back again and listen to the same things. Will they make better sense the second time around? God knows, but I will continue to read first my Bibles and then as I have time and my old body allows, other things .

 

[Johann]

I cannot read all of your...for me... too lengthy posts with understanding. Perhaps you are speaking the right things. God knows.

1co 12:31

But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way.

“But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.” I
Corinthians 12:31. “And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my
body to be burned, and have not love, it profiteth me nothing.” I Corinthians 13:3. “And now
abideth faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.” I Corinthians 13:13.
More than 30 times the word “love” is found in I John, which Epistle is written that
believers might know that they have eternal life. I John 5:13.
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be
lifted up.”

“Let us not be desirious of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
Galatians 5:26. Here we have a much needed exhortation. So many of God’s children are guilty;
including outstanding Christian workers, who are supposed to be spiritual leaders. The remedy is
more love, which means more walking in the Spirit.

“Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed
up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, SEEKETH NOT HER OWN, is not easily provoked,
thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth
all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.” I Corinthians 13:4 to 7.

All Christians live in the Spirit, because “on believing” they are sealed by the Holy Spirit
unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30. But all Christians do not always
walk in the Spirit. Many walk in the flesh,—“walk as men”. Some more than others.

No effort, no tarrying, no praying, no imposition of hands is required for Holy Spirit
baptism. The very moment the sinner believes the gospel he is sealed with the Holy Spirit unto
the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13. “After that ye believed” in Ephesians 1:13 is
“pisteusantes” (believing). The same word is mistranslated in Acts 19:2. Have ye received the
Holy Spirit “since ye believed” (pistensantes). Every saved sinner received the one baptism of
Ephesians 4:5 the moment he received Christ and eternal life. But every believer is exhorted “be
filled with the Spirit” (Ephesians 5:18): “Walk in the Spirit.”

Shalom--let me know if I should enlarge the fonts @amadeus

 

[JLB]

1 CORINTHIANS—NOTE ON 12:4 gifts. These categories of giftedness are not
natural talents, skills, or abilities, such as are possessed by believers and
unbelievers alike.

They are sovereignly and supernaturally bestowed by the Holy
Spirit on all believers (vv. 7, 11), enabling them to spiritually edify each other
effectively and thus honor the Lord. The varieties of gifts fall into two general
types, speaking and serving (see vv. 8–10; cf. Rom. 12:6–8; 1 Pet. 4:10–11). The
speaking, or verbal, gifts (prophecy, knowledge, wisdom, teaching, and
exhortation) and the serving, nonverbal gifts (leadership, helps, giving, mercy,
faith, and discernment) are all permanent gifts that will operate throughout the
church age.

Their purpose is to edify the church and glorify God. The list here
and in Rom. 12:3–8 is best seen as representative of categories of giftedness that
the Holy Spirit draws from to give each believer whatever kind or combination
of kinds he chooses (1 Cor. 12:11).

Some believers may be gifted categorically
similar to others but are personally unique as the Spirit suits each grace gift to
the individual.

Miracles, healing, tongues, and the interpretation of tongues were
temporary sign gifts limited to the apostolic age and have, therefore, ceased.

Their purpose was to authenticate the apostles and their message as the true
word of God, until God’s written word was completed and became selfauthenticating. See notes on vv. 9–10.
1 CORINTHIANS—NOTE ON 12:5–6 varieties of service . . . activities. The Lord
gives believers unique ministry arenas in which to fulfill their giftedness, and
provides varieties of power to energize and accomplish them (cf. Rom. 12:6).

1 CORINTHIANS—NOTE ON 12:7 manifestation of the Spirit. No matter what the
gift, ministry, or effect, all spiritual gifts are from the Holy Spirit. They make
him known, understood, and evident in the church and in the world, by
spiritually profiting all who receive their ministry.

1 CORINTHIANS—NOTE ON 12:8 the utterance of wisdom. “Utterance” indicates a
speaking gift (see note on v. 4; cf. 1 Pet. 4:11). In the NT, “wisdom” is most
often used of the ability to understand God’s word and his will, and to skillfully
apply that understanding to life (cf. Matt. 11:19; 13:54; Mark 6:2; Luke 7:35;
Acts 6:10; James 1:5; 3:13, 17; 2 Pet. 3:15). the utterance of knowledge. This
gift may have been revelatory in the first century, but it is today the ability to
understand and speak God’s truth, with insight into the mysteries of his word,
that cannot be known apart from God’s revelation (Rom. 16:25; Eph. 3:3; Col.
1:26; 2:2; 4:3; cf. 1 Cor. 13:2). Knowledge majors on grasping the meaning of
the truth; wisdom emphasizes the practical conviction and conduct that applies
it.

1 CORINTHIANS—NOTE ON 12:9 faith. Distinct from saving faith or persevering
faith, both of which all believers possess, this gift is exercised in persistent
prayer and endurance in intercession, along with a strong trust in God in the
midst of difficult circumstances (cf. Matt. 17:20). healing. A temporary sign gift
used by Christ (Matt. 8:16–17), the apostles (Matt. 10:1), the seventy (Luke
10:1), and a few associates of the apostles, such as Philip (Acts 8:5–7). This
ability was identified as a gift belonging to the apostles (cf. 2 Cor. 12:12).
Although Christians today do not have the gifts of healings, God certainly still
hears and answers the faithful prayers of his children (see James 5:13–16). Some
people feel that healing should be common and expected in every era, but this is
not the case.

Physical healings are very rare throughout the OT record. Only a
few are recorded. There was never a time before the coming of Christ when
healings were common. Only in his lifetime and that of his apostles was there a
veritable explosion of healing. This was due to the unique need to accredit the

Messiah and to authenticate the first miracles of the gospel. Jesus and his
apostles temporarily banished disease from Palestine, but that was the most
monumental era of redemptive history and called for such authentication. To
normalize healing would be to normalize the arrival of the Savior. This gift
belonged to the sign gifts for that era only. The gifts of healings were never used
solely for bringing people physical health. Paul was sick but never healed
himself or asked another human to heal him. His friend Epaphroditus was near
death (Phil. 2:27), and Paul did not heal him. God intervened. When Timothy
was sick, Paul did not heal him, but told him to take some wine (1 Tim. 5:23).
Paul left Trophimus “ill at Miletus” (2 Tim. 4:20).

Healings were not the
everyday norm in Paul’s ministry, but did occur when he entered a new region,
e.g., Malta, where the gospel and its preacher needed authentication (see Acts
28:8–9). That healing was the first mention of healing since the lame man was
healed in Lystra (Acts 14:9) in connection with the arrival of Paul and the gospel
there. Prior to that, the nearest healing was by Peter in Acts 9:34, and the
resurrection of Tabitha in 9:41, so that people would believe the gospel Peter
preached (cf. 9:42).

1 CORINTHIANS—NOTE ON 12:10 miracles. This temporary sign gift was for the
working of divine acts contrary to nature, so that there was no explanation for
the action except that it was by the power of God. This, too, was to authenticate
Christ and the apostolic preachers of the gospel. John 2:11 notes that Jesus did
his first miracle at Cana to “manifest his glory,” not enhance the party (cf. John’s
purpose for recording the miracles of Jesus in this Gospel, 20:30–31). Acts 2:22
affirms that Jesus did miracles to “attest” that God was working through him, so
that people would believe in him as Lord and Savior. Jesus performed miracles
and healed only for the three years of his ministry, not at all in the 30 years
before. His miracles began when his ministry began. Though Jesus did miracles
related to nature (made wine, created food, walked on water with Peter,
ascended), no apostle ever is reported to have done a miracle in the natural
realm. What miracle did the apostles do? The answer is in the word “miracles,”
meaning “power,” and is frequently connected to casting out demons (Luke 4:36;
6:18; 9:42). It is precisely that power that the Lord gave the disciples (Luke 9:1;
10:17–19; cf. Acts 6:8; 8:7; 13:6–12). See notes on Acts 19:14–16. prophecy.
The meaning is simply that of “speaking forth,” or “proclaiming publicly,” to
which the connotation of prediction was added sometime in the Middle Ages.
Since the completion of Scripture, prophecy has not been a means of new
revelation, but is limited to proclaiming what has already been revealed in the
written word. Even the biblical prophets were preachers, proclaimers of God’s
truth both by revelation and reiteration. Old Testament prophets like Isaiah,
Jeremiah, and Ezekiel spent lifetimes proclaiming God’s word. Only a
comparatively small amount of what they preached is recorded in the Bible as
God’s direct revelation. They must have continually repeated and re-emphasized
those truths, as preachers today repeat, explain, and re-emphasize the word of
God in Scripture. The best definition for this gift is given in 1 Cor. 14:3. The
importance of this gift is given in 14:1, 39. Its supremacy to other gifts,
especially tongues, is the theme of ch. 14. See notes on 1 Thess. 5:20 and Rev.
19:10. distinguish between spirits. Satan is the great deceiver (John 8:44) and
his demons counterfeit God’s message and work. Christians with the gift of
discernment have the God-given ability to recognize lying spirits and to identify
deceptive and erroneous doctrine (cf. Acts 17:11; 1 John 4:1). Paul illustrated the
use of this gift in Acts 16:16–18, as Peter had exercised it in Acts 5:3. When it
was not being exercised in the Corinthian church, grave distortion of the truth
occurred (see 1 Cor. 12:3; 14:29). Though its operation has changed since
apostolic times, because of the completion of Scripture, it is still essential to
have people in the church who are discerning. They are the guardians, the
watchmen who protect the church from demonic lies, false doctrines, perverted
cults, and fleshly elements. As it requires diligent study of the word to exercise
gifts of knowledge, wisdom, preaching, and teaching, so it does with
discernment. See notes on 1 Thess. 5:20–22. tongues . . . interpretation. These
temporary sign gifts, using the normal words for speaking a foreign language
and translating it, like the others (miracles, healings) were for the authentication
of the truth and those who preached it. This true gift was clearly identified in
Acts 2:5–12 as languages, which validated the gospel as divine. They were,
however, because of their counterfeit in the culture, disproportionately exalted
and seriously abused in Corinth. Here, Paul identified them, but throughout 1
Cor. 14 he discussed them in detail. See notes on 14:1–39.
1 CORINTHIANS—NOTE ON 12:11 one and the same Spirit. While stressing the
diversity of gifts (vv. 4–11), Paul also stressed the singular source in the Spirit
(cf. vv. 4–6, 8–9). This is the fifth mention, in this chapter, of the source of gifts
being the Holy Spirit. It emphasizes that gifts are not something to seek, but to
be received from the Spirit “as he wills.” It is he alone who “empowers” or
energizes (v. 6) all gifts as he chooses.
John MacArthur

Just a friendly discussion with no name calling.

Let's start with scripture, so we can understand what the Lord is wanting us to know about this subject.


Please post the scripture where the term "apostolic age" is used.



JLB

 

[Johann]

No, I have not read M. Coverdale. All of the good things to read are too much for me anymore. I do try, but my reading list will never be finished unless I live for many more years. I did listen once to Mr. Utley at your suggestion but things simply do not easily stick anymore. I will have to go back again and listen to the same things. Will they make better sense the second time around? God knows, but I will continue to read first my Bibles and then as I have time and my old body allows, other things .

Love you brother, you and your precious family-

It shall help thee greatly to understand Scripture
If thou mark not only what is spoken
Or written
But of whom and TO whom
With what words
At what time
where
To what intent
With what circumstances
Considering what goeth before
And what followeth after.

Miles Coverdale-died in 1596

If have this written down in my Bible brother--words of wisdom.

Johann

 

[Johann]

Let's start with scripture, so we can understand what the Lord is wanting us to know about this subject.


Please post the scripture where the term "apostolic age" is used.



JLB

I mean really?

 

[amadeus]

“But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.” I
Corinthians 12:31. “And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my
body to be burned, and have not love, it profiteth me nothing.” I Corinthians 13:3. “And now
abideth faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.” I Corinthians 13:13.
More than 30 times the word “love” is found in I John, which Epistle is written that
believers might know that they have eternal life. I John 5:13.
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be
lifted up.”

"The greatest of these is LOVE"! Even so... and God is LOVE. Should He not then also be in us, directing all of our steps? Yes indeed... but who among us is not too often quenching the Spirit within and walking then according to his own blindness? Help us dear Lord!

“Let us not be desirious of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
Galatians 5:26. Here we have a much needed exhortation. So many of God’s children are guilty;
including outstanding Christian workers, who are supposed to be spiritual leaders. The remedy is
more love, which means more walking in the Spirit.+

Amen!

“Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed
up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, SEEKETH NOT HER OWN, is not easily provoked,
thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth
all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.” I Corinthians 13:4 to 7.

And also...

Php 2:3

Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.

All Christians live in the Spirit, because “on believing” they are sealed by the Holy Spirit
unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30. But all Christians do not always
walk in the Spirit. Many walk in the flesh,—“walk as men”. Some more than others.

1th 5:19

Quench not the Spirit.

No effort, no tarrying, no praying, no imposition of hands is required for Holy Spirit
baptism. The very moment the sinner believes the gospel he is sealed with the Holy Spirit unto
the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13. “After that ye believed” in Ephesians 1:13 is
“pisteusantes” (believing). The same word is mistranslated in Acts 19:2. Have ye received the
Holy Spirit “since ye believed” (pistensantes). Every saved sinner received the one baptism of
Ephesians 4:5 the moment he received Christ and eternal life. But every believer is exhorted “be
filled with the Spirit” (Ephesians 5:18): “Walk in the Spirit.”

Give God the glory!

Shalom--let me know if I should enlarge the fonts @amadeus

Thank you, no! Since they did cataract surgery on my eyes earlier this year, my vision has improved greatly. Too bad they cannot similarly improve my mind...LOL. But, I should not be wishing for such things. God has greatly blessed me. I should have no reason to complain.

 

[JLB]

I mean really?

Yes, really.


Building our understanding from scripture is how we know and understand the truth.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

 

[Johann]

"The greatest of these is LOVE"! Even so... and God is LOVE. Should He not then also be in us, directing all of our steps? Yes indeed... but who among us is not too often quenching the Spirit within and walking then according to his own blindness? Help us dear Lord!

Amen!

And also...

Php 2:3

Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.

1th 5:19

Quench not the Spirit.

Give God the glory!

Thank you, no! Since they did cataract surgery on my eyes earlier this year, my vision has improved greatly. Too bad they cannot similarly improve my mind...LOL. But, I should not be wishing for such things. God has greatly blessed me. I should have no reason to complain.

I pray shalom over you and family and health dear brother.

 

[amadeus]

Love you brother, you and your precious family-

It shall help thee greatly to understand Scripture
If thou mark not only what is spoken
Or written
But of whom and TO whom
With what words
At what time
where
To what intent
With what circumstances
Considering what goeth before
And what followeth after.

Miles Coverdale-died in 1596

If have this written down in my Bible brother--words of wisdom.

Johann

Thank you for these words. I will put M. Coverdale high on my list of things to read...

 

[Johann]

Yes, really.


Building our understanding from scripture is how we know and understand the truth.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

Is "trinity" in the Bible?

Apostolic Age (Ἀποστολικὴ Ἐποχή) refers to the period in early Christian history, approximately from AD 30 to AD 100, during which the apostles, particularly the original disciples of Jesus Christ, actively led and established the foundational doctrines and practices of the Christian church. This era is characterized by significant missionary activity, the formation of early Christian communities, and the writing of the New Testament texts.

--and careful throwing isolated "one verse theology"--this is a friendly discussion.

 

[JLB]

Is "trinity" in the Bible?

Apostolic Age (Ἀποστολικὴ Ἐποχή) refers to the period in early Christian history, approximately from AD 30 to AD 100, during which the apostles, particularly the original disciples of Jesus Christ, actively led and established the foundational doctrines and practices of the Christian church. This era is characterized by significant missionary activity, the formation of early Christian communities, and the writing of the New Testament texts.

--and careful throwing isolated "one verse theology"--this is a friendly discussion.

I don't use the word Trinity because it's not scriptural.

I use the word Godhead.

 

[Johann]

I don't use the word Trinity because it's not scriptural.

I use the word Godhead.

Let's stay ON the topic under discussion please-

Cognate with Theos , there are three other words to be noted :
1. Theotes , rendered "Deity", and used of Christ. Occurs only in Col_2:9, and has relation to the Godhead personally ; while
2. Theiotes , rendered "Deity" also, is Deity in the abstract . Occurs only in Rom_1:20.
3. Theios , rendered "Divine", and is used of Christ. Occurs only in 2Pe_1:3; 2Pe_1:4; and, with the Article, in Act_17:29, where it is rendered "Godhead". Gr. = that which [is] Divine.

Colossians 2:9

Col 2:9 For ὅτι in ἐν [Christ] αὐτῷ all πᾶν the τὸ fullness πλήρωμα of the τῆς Deity Θεότητος dwells κατοικεῖ in bodily form. σωματικῶς,
Acts 17:29
Act 17:29 Therefore, οὖν being ὑπάρχοντες offspring γένος - τοῦ of God, Θεοῦ we should ὀφείλομεν not οὐκ think νομίζειν, that the τὸ Divine Being Θεῖον is εἶναι like ὅμοιον. gold χρυσῷ or ἢ silver ἀργύρῳ or ἢ stone, λίθῳ, an image formed χαράγματι by man’s ἀνθρώπου, skill τέχνης and καὶ imagination. ἐνθυμήσεως

Romans 1:20
Rom 1:20 For γὰρ since ἀπὸ [the] creation κτίσεως of [the] world κόσμου [God’s] αὐτοῦ - τὰ invisible qualities, ἀόρατα - τε - ἥ His αὐτοῦ eternal ἀΐδιος power δύναμις and καὶ divine nature, θειότης, have been clearly seen, καθορᾶται, being understood νοούμενα from τοῖς His workmanship, ποιήμασιν so that εἰς [men] αὐτοὺς - τὸ are εἶναι without excuse. ἀναπολογήτους,

Thanks.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Since they did cataract surgery on my eyes earlier this year, my vision has improved greatly. Too bad they cannot similarly improve my mind...LOL. But, I should not be wishing for such things. God has greatly blessed me. I should have no reason to complain.

Amen, precious brother Amadeus! Reminded me of:

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be​

compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us." (Romans 8:18 AV)​

+

"For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a​

far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;" (2 Corinthians 4:17 AV)​

​

Looking forward to meeting Jesus and all of His precious Body of saints in Glory ♫ ↑

Amen.