Apostate Israel is Babylon- common sense.

[tailgator]

"Apostate Israel is Babylon: Common sense".

If only it were common sense:

Post # 56 no evidence in the Revelation for either Jerusalem of the Jews or The Vatican or any other city with physical boundaries unless someone chooses to ADD that to the Revelation.

PS.
According to revelation ,the beast that ascends out of the abyss and the ten horns hate the prostitute and make her desolate and burn her with fire.


What location does revelation show the beast from.the abyss attacking and killing its occupants?

 

[tailgator]

A physical city is responsible for the blood of the Saints? You have no understanding who woman represents. Not physical city!

The unfaithful woman represents those who are corporately part of the Holy City - the ungenerated professed believers who have wage spiritual war with the saints all over the world. Nothing to do with physical stones and walls in Jerusalem. Selah!

Jesus said jerusalem
You reject Jesus.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus said jerusalem
You reject Jesus.

Where did He say that?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sadly ,like the unbelieving Jews,you too have rejected the word of God spoken by the prophets and apostles.


1 Thes 5:2
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Are you actually quoting Paul, the guy who you think has much inferior Bible prophecy knowledge compared to Peter and John? Why would you do that? Are you just pretending that you trust that what Paul wrote about Bible prophecy is true?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because Jesus is the one who teaches us it is the Jews who kill his disciples throughout the gospel.

You really have to ignore Jesus and worship the beast to not be able to hear what Jesus says.


Mathew 23:35
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.


Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.



Jerusalem is responsible for ALL the righteous blood shed upon earth.To say otherwise would be like calling Jesus a liar.

That was only true up to that point in time back then. What about since then? There are some things written about Babylon that cannot be true of Jerusalem, like this:

Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

How exactly is Jerusalem "the hold of EVERY foul spirit, and a cage of EVERY unclean and hateful bird"? How exactly have "ALL nations...drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication"?

How exactly is Jerusalem spiritually "Sodom and Egypt" (Revelation 11:8)?

You're not recognizing that Mystery Babylon is the mother of ALL harlots (Revelation 17:5), of which Jerusalem is just one.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Jesus said jerusalem
You reject Jesus.

No Read carefully:
Rev 18:2-3
(2) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
(3) For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Babylon is a METAPHOR that can represent God's New Testament congregation that is falling away from Him, spiritually speaking! Not a physical city in the Middle East. The only great city on this side of the Cross is the New Testament congregation of Israel, the Church, where Christ was made chief cornerstone of that building! Not literal building! Selah!

Moveover...

Rev 18:10-16
(10) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
(11) And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
(12) The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
(13) And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
(14) And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
(15) The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
(16) And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

The merchants of the Earth are God's Elect who have come out of Babylon the Great to avoid the plagues and mourned over CHURCHES for who she once was now that she has fallen. No longer will men be able to buy our merchandise of salvation anymore, for God has already secured all of His people and loosened Satan to be used as a tool to bring judgment upon His unfaithful church before He returns.

Sadly, like the Jews of Old, MANY professed Christians will deny there is anything wrong with their church, or insist that Revelation 17/18 has nothing to do with Church, or even realize they are under judgment. This is why many people will not understand the MYSTERY of who Babylon the Great really is.

 

[tailgator]

No Read carefully:
Rev 18:2-3
(2) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
(3) For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Babylon is a METAPHOR that can represent God's New Testament congregation that is falling away from Him, spiritually speaking! Not a physical city in the Middle East. The only great city on this side of the Cross is the New Testament congregation of Israel, the Church, where Christ was made chief cornerstone of that building! Not literal building! Selah!

Moveover...

Rev 18:10-16
(10) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
(11) And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
(12) The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
(13) And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
(14) And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
(15) The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
(16) And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

The merchants of the Earth are God's Elect who have come out of Babylon the Great to avoid the plagues and mourned over CHURCHES for who she once was now that she has fallen. No longer will men be able to buy our merchandise of salvation anymore, for God has already secured all of His people and loosened Satan to be used as a tool to bring judgment upon His unfaithful church before He returns.

Sadly, like the Jews of Old, MANY professed Christians will deny there is anything wrong with their church, or insist that Revelation 17/18 has nothing to do with Church, or even realize they are under judgment. This is why many people will not understand the MYSTERY of who Babylon the Great really is.

No seriously.Jesus said Jerusalem is responsible for All righteous blood shed upon earth.

So it's your word against Jesus word.
You reject Jesus.

I don't care if you write a three page essay on why you think everyone else is to blame.
You still reject Jesus.

 

[Zao is life]

Who did Jesus say was responsible for all the righteous blood shed upon earth?


Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Are you willing to except what Jesus said or do you reject his word?

It's you who rejects Jesus' word because your spiritual pride has darkened your understanding.

Was the generation Jesus was talking to the generation that had murdered the prophets? Or was Jesus holding them equally as responsible as their fathers who murdered them? Were they responsible for the blood of the saints and of the prophets?

It's an unfaithful and adulterous body of Christians Jesus is warning in the Revelation, who, because Jesus knew they were going to be responsible for the betrayal of (and therefore the blood of) the saints, will be held equally as responsible as those fathers of the Jews (whom Jesus was referring to) were responsible for the blood of the prophets, just as the Jews of Jesus day were held equally as responsible for the blood of the prophets that they themselves had not shed.

Your spiritual pride has caused you to make the assumption that because Jesus was speaking to the Jewish leaders in Matthew 23:29-38, "Babylon the Great" is therefore referring to the city of Jerusalem which was destroyed in 70 A.D.

Your spiritual pride has caused you to show yourself up for conveniently forgetting the warning of Paul in Romans 11:21-22; the exhortation of Jesus in Revelation 3:18; and the warning in Revelation 2:21-22 to Jezebel of the church at Thyatira and those who commit (spiritual) adultery with her.

Your spiritual pride shows that that you do not believe the warning of Jesus and His apostles TO US ALL which is contained in what He said to the Jewish leaders of His day, because you completely fail to understand that the same indictment and warning still applies to all those who consider themselves God's elect TODAY yet make themselves responsible for the blood of the saints and of the prophets.

Your inability to understand why Jesus held a generation that had not shed the blood of the prophets responsible for the blood of the prophets shows up your own spiritual pride, because it was a generation who (like yourself) in their own spiritual pride believed that "We would not have shed the blood of the prophets" - just like you do today - except in the case of Babylon the Great, it will be the blood of prophets and of saints.
​

Your own spiritual pride, which causes you to insist that Jesus was talking "to someone else" in His Revelation about Babylon the Great, is of the same nature as the spiritual pride of the Jewish leaders whom you condemn. Just because you believe in Christ and they did not does not mean that your own spiritual pride is any different to theirs.

The question you need to ask yourself is:

Are you willing to except what Jesus said or do you reject his word?
​

The fact that you never asked yourself that question in the first place, but sought to ask someone else that questions, already betrays your own spiritual pride that you condemn the leaders of the Jews of Jesus' day for.

 

[TribulationSigns]

It is the generation of evil, which is made up of false prophets, false teachers, and their followers (messengers) who are responsible for the blood of the Saints from the Old Testament AND the New Testament. This generation of evil that started with Cain until today will not end until all things are fulfilled. Nothing to do with Jersualem in 70AD, or Jersualem in Modern Israel. It is a spiritual Jersualem that the woman of Revelation 12 REPRESENTED, made up of all Saints and the prophets from Abel to the Last Elect. It is a big spiritual picture that many people, like Tailgator, fail to see because they are obsessed with the idea of a literal city of Jersualem, the physical land of Judea, the ethnic Jews, and the literal temple and throne of David, whether it was in 70AD or today.

 

[tailgator]

It's you who rejects Jesus' word because your spiritual pride has darkened your understanding.

Was the generation Jesus was talking to the generation that had murdered the prophets? Or was Jesus holding them equally as responsible as their fathers who murdered them? Were they responsible for the blood of the saints and of the prophets?

It's an unfaithful and adulterous body of Christians Jesus is warning in the Revelation, who, because Jesus knew they were going to be responsible for the betrayal of (and therefore the blood of) the saints, will be held equally as responsible as those fathers of the Jews (whom Jesus was referring to) were responsible for the blood of the prophets, just as the Jews of Jesus day were held equally as responsible for the blood of the prophets that they themselves had not shed.

Your spiritual pride has caused you to make the assumption that because Jesus was speaking to the Jewish leaders in Matthew 23:29-38, "Babylon the Great" is therefore referring to the city of Jerusalem which was destroyed in 70 A.D.

Your spiritual pride has caused you to show yourself up for conveniently forgetting the warning of Paul in Romans 11:21-22; the exhortation of Jesus in Revelation 3:18; and the warning in Revelation 2:21-22 to Jezebel of the church at Thyatira and those who commit (spiritual) adultery with her.

Your spiritual pride shows that that you do not believe the warning of Jesus and His apostles TO US ALL which is contained in what He said to the Jewish leaders of His day, because you completely fail to understand that the same indictment and warning still applies to all those who consider themselves God's elect TODAY yet make themselves responsible for the blood of the saints and of the prophets.

Your inability to understand why Jesus held a generation that had not shed the blood of the prophets responsible for the blood of the prophets shows up your own spiritual pride, because it was a generation who (like yourself) in their own spiritual pride believed that "We would not have shed the blood of the prophets" - just like you do today - except in the case of Babylon the Great, it will be the blood of prophets and of saints.
​

Your own spiritual pride, which causes you to insist that Jesus was talking "to someone else" in His Revelation about Babylon the Great, is of the same nature as the spiritual pride of the Jewish leaders whom you condemn. Just because you believe in Christ and they did not does not mean that your own spiritual pride is any different to theirs.

The question you need to ask yourself is:

Are you willing to except what Jesus said or do you reject his word?
​

The fact that you never asked yourself that question in the first place, but sought to ask someone else that questions, already betrays your own spiritual pride that you condemn the leaders of the Jews of Jesus' day for.

False
Jesus said Jerusalem is responsible for all the righteous blood shed upon earth.

As I said,you can post for days but in all your lies,you can not change this simple fact which you hate.

God's word.

Mathew 23:35
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

And it's obvious the children today are no different that their fathers of 2000 years ago.


Mathew 27:25
All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”



"ALL the righteous blood shed upon earth"

 

[tailgator]

It is the generation of evil, which is made up of false prophets, false teachers, and their followers (messengers) who are responsible for the blood of the Saints from the Old Testament AND the New Testament. This generation of evil that started with Cain until today will not end until all things are fulfilled. Nothing to do with Jersualem in 70AD, or Jersualem in Modern Israel. It is a spiritual Jersualem that the woman of Revelation 12 REPRESENTED, made up of all Saints and the prophets from Abel to the Last Elect. It is a big spiritual picture that many people, like Tailgator, fail to see because they are obsessed with the idea of a literal city of Jersualem, the physical land of Judea, the ethnic Jews, and the literal temple and throne of David, whether it was in 70AD or today.

False,it has everything to do with Jerusalem .
Everything.
You reject Jesus.

Mathew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.


You don't understand the tribulation which takes place in Israel concerning the christians there.You don't comprehend their persecution.
You will still be false witnessing what you believe will happen to the rest of the world while the christians in Israel are imprisoned and murdered and you will never know anything about it because you probably don't even know Israel's laws or their punishments.

You don't even comprehend why these saints are imprisoned and killed in Israel do you.

Daniel 11:33
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

These people are being imprisoned and murdered in Israel and you believe Jerusalem has nothing to do with it.

 

[tailgator]

These people who support Jerusalem and it's king Bibi just don't get it.
They read about Jesus disciples being beaten in the synagogues and persecuted throughout all the cities of Israel before Jesus second coming and they believe Jerusalem is not to blame because they cant think of no better king than king Bibi.

Mathew 10:23
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.


You better believe jerusalem.is responsible for this persecution in Mathew 10:23 till Christ comes.

 

[Zao is life]

False,it has everything to do with Jerusalem .
Everything.
You reject Jesus.

Mathew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.


You don't understand the tribulation which takes place in Israel concerning the christians there.You don't comprehend their persecution.
You will still be false witnessing what you believe will happen to the rest of the world while the christians in Israel are imprisoned and murdered and you will never know anything about it because you probably don't even know Israel's laws or their punishments.

You don't even comprehend why these saints are imprisoned and killed in Israel do you.

Daniel 11:33
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

These people are being imprisoned and murdered in Israel and you believe Jerusalem has nothing to do with it.

The above videos were filmed by Christian Jews living in Israel, who go about freely sharing their faith in Jesus.

You will give an answer one day for every one of the false accusations you make in your exaggerations of persecution of Christians, either against non-believing Jews or against non-believing Americans, or against any non-believers, or against believers - other Christians like myself who believe in Jesus - because it's your spiritual pride that causes the attitude that causes the exaggerations that you make and plain lies that you tell of the persecution of Christians whether it be in Israel, or in countries in Europe, the USA, Australia etc etc.

Have you not heard of the persecution of Christians in Islamic ruled Middle Eastern countries and in Africa and in China?

Why are you exaggerating the persecution of Christians in Israel?

Your hatred of Jews is showing, and your attitude that brings about your words and your lies and exaggerations regarding the persecution of Christians whether it be in the USA or in Canada or in Australia or in Europe or in Israel or any other countries practicing a policy of freedom of religion, is born in your spiritual pride, which is ungodly.

You expose your spirit by your words - and it is not the Spirit of Christ.​

 

[Timtofly]

There are many NT passages which show that Zechariah 14 cannot possibly be fulfilled the way Premils typically interpret it, which is that they see it as indicating mortal survivors of Christ's second coming (contradicts Matthew 24:35-39, Luke 17:26-30, 1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Thess 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-12, Rev 19:17-18) and as teaching that animal sacrifices and offerings will be reinstated (contradicting Hebrews 8-10) and nonsense like that.

No animal sacrifice reinstated at all. That is an excuse.

"the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles."

The feast of Tabernacles is not about animal sacrifices. Under the OT Law, there could be animal sacrifices, but those were abolished. Not the feast of Tabernacles which many still acknowledge to this very day without animal sacrifices. We celebrate the Passover, but no animal sacrifices. So your excuse is a moot point.

Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming, or that chapter would contradict all the other Scripture you provided. You do not even acknowledge your own contradictions.

Nothing you propose has been fulfilled about Zechariah 14. Oh wait, you totally avoided the question, and gave a bunch of excuses. Then called your answer, nonsensical.

So you have no answer, but nonsensical excuses.

I am a premil, and even I can understand that Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming. The Second Coming happened over 42 months, at the least, prior to the battle of Armageddon. I agree that all are dead at Armageddon, but that is not the Second Coming by any means, not even according to your version of Revelation 20. Revelation 19 certainly does not fit in 2 Peter 3.

You have contradiction between 2 Peter 3 and Revelation 19. You have contradiction between Revelation 19 and Revelation 20.

2 Peter 3 does not say pass away. Revelation 19 never says pass away. Revelation 19 says no one is consumed by fire. 2 Peter 3 has no one consumed by fire, only the works on earth are consumed by fire. That would be man's works, not God's works.

Zechariah 14 never states the earth passes away, because nothing passes away at the Second Coming, except man's work are all burned up. Matthew 24:35 says heaven and earth pass away, but not when, nor in conjunction with the Second Coming.

Tell me, did heaven and earth pass away in your sense at the Flood, or in the common sense that there was a physical change in heaven and earth? Because if you say, of course, they did not pass away, then your sense is not the same as how Jesus compared the Second Coming to the Flood.

There was a new heaven and earth after the Flood, because of the physical change of all the water that was above heaven was now on the earth. The old heaven and earth passed away in the sense of this physical change.


So the baptism of fire will cause the old heaven and earth to pass away, in a physical change once again, at the Second Coming, but still the same creation. Not an entirely new creation as what happens between Revelation 20 and Revelation 21. They don't pass away then either, so passing away is simply a physical change in appearance. The earth goes through a physical cosmetic change. John said they flee away at the end, but that means he could not see them any more, as only God and the LOF existed in the view John saw. John saw two perspectives that take place at the same time. But humans will only experience one of those perspectives. Most of the dead will only experience being judged and tossed into the LOF. They will not experience heaven and earth changing. Only those made alive with eternal life will see the old creation in one instant, and then the next thought, there will be the next creation. Those alive will not see the perspective of only God and the LOF.

For some reason you view these chapters in Revelation as just some symbolic framework, with your own inserted interpretation, and fail to see what is literally taking place. Then you see only one actual event, because you conflate many verses on various events, into a single perspective, that causes contradictions.

 

[Timtofly]

Again, I didn't say otherwise. I agree with that and didn't say otherwise. There is something VERY wrong with you which causes you to misunderstanding everything you read. You AGAIN are misrepresenting my view.


Where did I say that? Nowhere. God's wrath is on someone while they are lost. Read what I say instead of just coming up with things out of the blue in your imagination. But, the fact they are lost doesn't mean they can't repent and be saved before they die.


What are you talking about? You need to take an English class.


No, I've never said that. Any other false accusations you'd like to make? You misunderstand seemingly EVERYTHING that you read. Please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).


I don't equate Spiritual Israel with national Israel in any way.


This shows your lack of understanding scripture. Your doctrine comes ONLY from your imagination and not scripture. Have you never read this:

Romans 11:5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”

Are you trying to tell me that the elect "remnant chosen by grace" who did obtain what they sought were blinded? That is insane! No, they were not! Only "the others" who "were hardened" and not "chosen by grace" were blinded.

You give no time for blindness to be removed. You miss the whole point that Israel will once again be a blessed nation on the earth for a thousand years.

The fact that we are not in the Day of the Lord is that Israel is still under the partial blindness, where they are the same as wild branches.

All of Israel are still elect spiritually. That will be true until the moment they are cast into the LOF. Even more so than the Gentiles who are elect, but spiritually in darkness, and will continue to be in darkness, even though at any time they can choose to accept the second birth. The lack of distinction does not make Gentiles any different than before, but places the natural branches into the wild, cut off state.


While the whole world should see the light while in the darkness, does not mean they automatically see the light. The church still has to send out people every day to a lost world in darkness.

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

While Paul was quoting Isaiah just like Jesus quoted these verses, indicates that while the light can shine in a dark place, does not mean all will comprehend. It means all will be without an excuse.

I am telling you the elect is every human. The remnant is who God chooses after the Second Coming.

Do you even understand what a natural branch means? They were physically born into God's spiritual kingdom. Many had to be cast out.

A wild branch starts out being cast out, and has to find the light to even begin to comprehend. The point where Israel was no longer a natural branch was blindness in part. Still a better position than a wild branch.

When Jesus told Nicodemus he had to be born again, that put the natural birth into a totally different perspective. Being born again means they had already become as wild branches. A wild branch cannot be born again. They never had the first birth.

All Israel had to do to be spiritual, was to be physically born. But a Gentile could not enjoy that relationship. They had to convert to the law. Then there was all the physical points that had to be met. But those physical points were nothing to God. God knew the heart and motive, if it was genuine or not. But you seem to think there was only a spiritual relationship, forgetting what a natural branch even means. You were not turned into a natural branch. You are a wild branch that is grafted in. Paul also states that God can cut off a wild branch just as easily as a He did the natural branch.

So how does that equate, because being cut off does not mean you loose election. It means that you are placed into blindness spiritually. So God has the final confrontation with all who are placed in blindness, prior to the pronounced judgment of being tossed into the LOF. That election still stands sure for the dead standing at the GWT Judgment, but that is the final rejection and being removed from the Lamb's book of life.

Equating the spiritual with the physical is the only complete restoration of both. Saying you don't equate Spiritual Israel with National Israel is the opposite of any restoration point. No one says you have to become a current Israeli citizen to be born from above. But they are equated in God's perspective as part of His restoration per the parable of the fig tree in the Olivet Discourse.

I don't equate the term Christian with anything spiritual these days, as that is just a term for a man made religion, so I see your point, but you should not equate your self to being a national Christian either.

Being a Spiritual Israel means you have both the physical birth into Israel and the spiritual birth into Jesus Christ. That is the equation you are missing or denying exists. We call the nation Israel, not Jacob. That is God changing Jacob's name to form the nation of Israel be it good or bad. All of them are born into Adam's image. The name was chosen by God, so you have to live with it, not change what God established.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No animal sacrifice reinstated at all. That is an excuse.

"the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles."

The feast of Tabernacles is not about animal sacrifices.

Yes, it is. Your ignorance shines through yet again. Please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

Leviticus 23:34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the Lord. 35 On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein

Ezra 3:1 And when the seventh month was come, and the children of Israel were in the cities, the people gathered themselves together as one man to Jerusalem. 2 Then stood up Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren the priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and his brethren, and builded the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings thereon, as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God. 3 And they set the altar upon his bases; for fear was upon them because of the people of those countries: and they offered burnt offerings thereon unto the Lord, even burnt offerings morning and evening. 4 They kept also the feast of tabernacles, as it is written, and offered the daily burnt offerings by number, according to the custom, as the duty of every day required;

These scriptures speak for themselves. They show that keeping the feast of tabernacles involved seven days of "daily burnt offerings". So, what were you saying again about the feast of tabernacles not being about animal sacrifices?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You give no time for blindness to be removed.

You utter falsehood with every comment you make. Blindness has been removed from many Israelites over the past almost 2,000 years. Including some of them in Paul's day, as he explained here:

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. 9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Can you see here how Paul wanted to help save some of those who were blinded in his day? And I'm sure he did. So, your claim that I give no time for blindness to be removed is complete nonsense. I believe blindness has been removed from some Israelites for the past almost 2,000 years. You are the one who postpones their blindess being removed for at least around 2,000 years, not me.

 

[tailgator]

The above videos were filmed by Christian Jews living in Israel, who go about freely sharing their faith in Jesus.

You will give an answer one day for every one of the false accusations you make in your exaggerations of persecution of Christians, either against non-believing Jews or against non-believing Americans, or against any non-believers, or against believers - other Christians like myself who believe in Jesus - because it's your spiritual pride that causes the attitude that causes the exaggerations that you make and plain lies that you tell of the persecution of Christians whether it be in Israel, or in countries in Europe, the USA, Australia etc etc.

Have you not heard of the persecution of Christians in Islamic ruled Middle Eastern countries and in Africa and in China?

Why are you exaggerating the persecution of Christians in Israel?

Your hatred of Jews is showing, and your attitude that brings about your words and your lies and exaggerations regarding the persecution of Christians whether it be in the USA or in Canada or in Australia or in Europe or in Israel or any other countries practicing a policy of freedom of religion, is born in your spiritual pride, which is ungodly.

You expose your spirit by your words - and it is not the Spirit of Christ.​

That's some funny stuff right there.

I'm in a conversation with a Jew on another site who said at 3:40 am


"Israel does NOT have freedom of religion, exactly because it IS illegal to proselytize. That's what I meant when I said he wasn't welcome there."


You want me to hook you up with that Jew so you can set her straight?

 

[tailgator]

The above videos were filmed by Christian Jews living in Israel, who go about freely sharing their faith in Jesus.

You will give an answer one day for every one of the false accusations you make in your exaggerations of persecution of Christians, either against non-believing Jews or against non-believing Americans, or against any non-believers, or against believers - other Christians like myself who believe in Jesus - because it's your spiritual pride that causes the attitude that causes the exaggerations that you make and plain lies that you tell of the persecution of Christians whether it be in Israel, or in countries in Europe, the USA, Australia etc etc.

Have you not heard of the persecution of Christians in Islamic ruled Middle Eastern countries and in Africa and in China?

Why are you exaggerating the persecution of Christians in Israel?

Your hatred of Jews is showing, and your attitude that brings about your words and your lies and exaggerations regarding the persecution of Christians whether it be in the USA or in Canada or in Australia or in Europe or in Israel or any other countries practicing a policy of freedom of religion, is born in your spiritual pride, which is ungodly.

You expose your spirit by your words - and it is not the Spirit of Christ.​

Do you judge Jesus the way you judge everyone in Christ?

Luke 21:10

But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake



When christians are being beaten in the synagogues of Israel and imprisoned for doing as Jesus commanded,will you still stand opposed to God's word spoken by Jesus?

 

[Timtofly]

You say you're looking for the Day of the Lord to come. Sadly, like the unbelieving Jews of Old, you are ignoring the FACT that the Day of the Lord has already come! It came when Christ came to earth a man. All that is written of Old concerning Him has been and is being fulfilled during this Gospel age that is the Day of the Lord the prophets foretell would come. The only Day of the Lord to come is not that which the prophets of Old foretell, it is the ONE and final DAY the New Testament writers show us shall come when the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete!

Peter was still looking for the Day of the Lord.

So did that Day of the Lord start after Peter and Paul were martyred?