The 144,000 before God at the end.

[Davy]

If that is actually a metaphor, then there is no bride. There is no bridegroom and there’s no cry made. I think you’re looking for another word to describe the coming of the Lord for his bride.

Instead of your listening to men, you should try opening The Bible for yourself and paying attention to what you read. Try Isaiah 54 if you want to learn about who the Bride is. Then try Revelation 21.

 

[Davy]

So you think that Jesus and Paul both quoting these passages saying catching away, thief, then drunken servant are coincidence?

That idea that popped out of your... uh, never mind where, makes NO SENSE at all.

 

[Davy]

No, one thing doesn’t mean something else. The 10 virgins slumbered and slept because they were asleep and not watching. That’s why the end of the passage says watch. Same for you, watch.

Once again, you show you likely failed English grammar in school, as you don't understand about metaphor, allegory, analogy, parable, etc.

 

[Davy]

So the entire earth is going to be in the midst of burning flames, earthquakes, overheated sun, seven plagues vials of wrath and saints won’t be touched? Only the antichrist can touch them? Oh boy.

Still yet again, you reveal you don't have a clue as to what God's Word actually says. You instead sound like you've bought fake pre-trib rapture author NOVELS written by their lackey authors Hal Lindsay and Time LaHaye. I'd say you probably have all of Tim LaHaye's 'Left-Behind' 13 book series, and you study them INSTEAD of The Bible.

Thus you do not fit the Biblical example of a true Christian, as you are wrapped up too much in man's... word instead of God's Word. And your show of haughtiness about what you 'think'... you know, makes you appear even more foolish.

 

[Davy]

Are any of you post tribbers going to lend a hand to those that are dying all around you? When God feeds you and gives you water and shelter from the sun and they’re perishing and they’re in heat you’re not gonna let them in your spirit bunker?
So are you gonna rescue them from God‘s wrath? Are you gonna plug your ears and sing louder as the train going to the concentration camp did to the Jews and the German people just let it happen?
Will you refuse to take the sinners in and tell them “my 4 and no more?”

Won't any of us be giving you a helping hand with your present attitude of mocking Christ Jesus in His Word. And you will... go through the "great tribulation" if you believe there will still be a Christian Church that exists to Christ's return.

Thing is, Jesus gave His FAITHFUL CHURCH signs leading up to His future return to gather His Church, and that so His Faithful would know what to expect for the end times leading up to His return on the 'last day' of this present world. But those who do not care... what He gave His Faithful Church with those Signs won't be watching, and thus will be deceived by 'flying away' to the first supernatural Messiah that shows up in Jerusalem, which will NOT be Jesus Christ. And that is who you will be TAKEN to if you don't wise up and get into God's Word for yourself.

 

[Davy]

Your twisting a Messianic prophecy to include the Antichrist is bordering on blasphemy.

It's the other way around you white-washed wall!

Those who try and ADD... the final 70th "one week" of Daniel 9:27 to Jesus' Ministry ARE DOING BLASPHEMY AGAINST CHRIST JESUS!

The reason is because Jesus NEVER made no 7 year covenant, nor will He ever place an IDOL ABOMINATION inside the temple at Jerusalem which is what that Dan.9:27 verse is about! To claim Jesus did that at His 1st coming is BLASPHEMY BY FALSE JEWS OF THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN!

And... the Daniel 11 chapter about the "vile person" is who that Daniel 9:27 verse is about! This is why the FALSE JEWS OF THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN try to claim the Daniel 11 Scripture has already been fulfilled, and they refuse to address that "vile person" as the role of the FINAL ANTICHRIST AT THE END OF THIS WORLD!

Thus I am not ignorant of Satan's devices used by His servants of the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN, THOSE WHO SAY THEY ARE JEWS, BUT ARE NOT!

 

[Davy]

Please describe to me how God is going to hide you from the sun overheating in one of the seven plagues. Just that one plague please? Thanks.

How can you know what those passages in Revelation mean since you don't understand what metaphors, symbols, analogies, and allegories mean? You probably think the locusts of Rev.9 are about monsters, like some idiotic Hollywood movie.

 

[Davy]

No, you are wrong. They did not show that they didn’t understand, they had no oil in their lamps.

You give evidence of your lack of ability to read again.

ALL... ten virgins had OIL IN THEIR LAMPS as written...

Matt 25:3-4
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
KJV

That idea that the five foolish virgins "took no oil with them" means they did not take a SPARE VESSEL OF OIL with them like the five wise virgins did! They all have OIL that was in their lamps. But only five of them took a SPARE VESSEL OF OIL with them. It's as simple as that.

 

[Truther]

Don't even try.. to go there with that Pre-trib Rapture Pop Junk, because the 1st one 'taken' of Luke 17:37 Jesus showed will be to the FOWLS that eat on a DEAD CARCASE per Matt.24:28 and Luke 17:36-37.

What Paul showed in 1 Thess.4:13-17 was about the GATHERING OF THE SAINTS that Jesus first proclaimed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

That Matt.24 version of Christ's coming to gather His Church aligns with what Paul taught in 1 Thess.4:13-16 about Jesus bringing the 'asleep' saints with Him when He comes.


Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

That Mark 13 version shows the Church that is still alive on earth when Jesus comes being "caught up" to Him, which Paul taught in the 1 Thess.4:17 verse.

So... like I have said several times on this forum already, Apostle Paul got his teaching about Christ's coming and gathering of His Church from Jesus Himself with what Jesus taught about it.

The verse(27 in red) is speaking of the trib saints that survive into the Millennial reign and those already in heaven at the marriage supper of Rev 19...

All in Heaven...


6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean....


All on Earth...

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


1 Thes 4 does not show the sinners gathered. Only saints.

Matt 25 is separate and sinners are also brought to be excluded from the kingdom..

 

[Truther]

Matt.24 says nothing... about a "catching away". You ADDED to that Scripture because you have failed to read it, but wrongly assumed... what your false pre-trib rapture preachers have told you it says. You sound like a broken record already with spewing their lies.

Matt 24 says saints taken, then a thief, then a drunken servant...

1 Thes 4-5 says saints taken, then a thief, then a drunken servant....


Just ignore this fact and blow it off as a councidence.

You see it...too late.

 

[Truther]

The "goofy cherry picking doctrine" is man's FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE which is nowhere written of in God's Word. That false doctrines is so... STUPID, it cannot even figure out that Jesus WARNED AGAINST BEING THE 1ST ONE 'TAKEN' per His answer of Luke 17:37!

So one might as well be speaking to a stone wall with those on man's fake pre-trib rapture theory.

Enoch(righteous) taken up before wrath, Noah(righteous) taken up before wrath, Lot(righteous) taken out before wrath...

Davy says Church taken AFTER wrath....LOL.

 

[Truther]

Instead of your listening to men, you should try opening The Bible for yourself and paying attention to what you read. Try Isaiah 54 if you want to learn about who the Bride is. Then try Revelation 21.

As long as I don't call my Bible a metaphor like you do....

 

[Truther]

That idea that popped out of your... uh, never mind where, makes NO SENSE at all.

You saw it.

It's too late.

Now you know.....


Matt 24...
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left....

1 Thes 4-5...
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.





Matt 24...
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

1 Thes 4-5...
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.




Matt 24...
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;...


1 Thes 4-5...

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.



Boy what an amazing coincidence, Davy says.

 

[Truther]

Once again, you show you likely failed English grammar in school, as you don't understand about metaphor, allegory, analogy, parable, etc.

I definitely don't understand your idea of the saints being decimated by the wrath of God along with the sinners during the GT.

 

[Truther]

Won't any of us be giving you a helping hand with your present attitude of mocking Christ Jesus in His Word. And you will... go through the "great tribulation" if you believe there will still be a Christian Church that exists to Christ's return.

Thing is, Jesus gave His FAITHFUL CHURCH signs leading up to His future return to gather His Church, and that so His Faithful would know what to expect for the end times leading up to His return on the 'last day' of this present world. But those who do not care... what He gave His Faithful Church with those Signs won't be watching, and thus will be deceived by 'flying away' to the first supernatural Messiah that shows up in Jerusalem, which will NOT be Jesus Christ. And that is who you will be TAKEN to if you don't wise up and get into God's Word for yourself.

Is this your excuse to hide in your bunker from helping those under the wrath of God during the GT?

 

[Truther]

Still yet again, you reveal you don't have a clue as to what God's Word actually says. You instead sound like you've bought fake pre-trib rapture author NOVELS written by their lackey authors Hal Lindsay and Time LaHaye. I'd say you probably have all of Tim LaHaye's 'Left-Behind' 13 book series, and you study them INSTEAD of The Bible.

Thus you do not fit the Biblical example of a true Christian, as you are wrapped up too much in man's... word instead of God's Word. And your show of haughtiness about what you 'think'... you know, makes you appear even more foolish.

I think that you don't think the Great Tribulation is that great.

 

[Truther]

How can you know what those passages in Revelation mean since you don't understand what metaphors, symbols, analogies, and allegories mean? You probably think the locusts of Rev.9 are about monsters, like some idiotic Hollywood movie.

Not metaphors, but SIGNS in Rev....

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:


99% literal and 1% signs.

I hope you don't think stop signs are metaphors.

That could get messy.

 

[Truther]

You give evidence of your lack of ability to read again.
ALL... ten virgins had OIL IN THEIR LAMPS as written...
Matt 25:3-4
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
KJV
That idea that the five foolish virgins "took no oil with them" means they did not take a SPARE VESSEL OF OIL with them like the five wise virgins did! They all have OIL that was in their lamps. But only five of them took a SPARE VESSEL OF OIL with them. It's as simple as that.

No oil means they had extra oil???

No money means you have extra money???

I see lamps without oil, not extra oil.

You make stuff up on the fly, Davy.

 

[Brakelite]

The reason is because Jesus NEVER made no 7 year covenant,

I'm going to stop you right there. I'm going to suggest you do something that may offer you some light into Hebrew literature. Here is the full passage of Daniel 9:24-27.
KJV Daniel 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Now I am going to divide that passage into Hebrew chiastic structure, and ask you to read to yourself several times, that which is bolded, and then back to the beginning and read that which is italic. This is not a gimmick or a trick to make my beliefs sound more kosher. This is the heart and soul of Hebrew literature. I can give you other examples. In fact, the entire book of Revelation is designed in that fashion.
Now ask yourself, who is the bolded portions talking about? Then ask yourself, what is the theme of the red italic portions?

 

[Davy]

The verse(27 in red) is speaking of the trib saints that survive into the Millennial reign and those already in heaven at the marriage supper of Rev 19...

That 'trib saints' idea by the false pre-trib rapture doctors believe are ALL JEWS that convert to Christ 'during'... the "great tribulation". That idea is NOWHERE written in God's Word. The pre-trib rapture doctors simply made that idea up because of Scripture like Christ's Olivet discourse that shows saints going through the great trib (Matt.24:.16-22).

Then they continue another false idea with that, that those trib saints have to be unbelieving Jews that only convert to Christ during the trib. And then some of them lie against Christ's Olivet discourse saying Jesus did not give that for His Church when He was actually speaking to the 'foundation' of His Church.

What God's Word teaches is that how one believes just prior to the 'start' of the great trib, that is how one will remain throughout the tribulation. This is why the unbelieving will be those in shame when they see Jesus coming in the clouds per Matt.24:16-22. They being in shame when Jesus comes, they will wish for the hills to "Cover us", and for the mountains to "Fall on us" (Luke 23:30).

The saints (Christs Church) of believers that GO into the time of "great tribulation" are not those who only convert to Christ once the trib has already started.

And the future marriage supper with Jesus ONLY happens AFTER His future return TO EARTH. This is shown simply in the Revelation 19:1-9 verses. Those verses reveal the "great whore" has already been defeated and her reign ended, which means Christ's coming had already happened. Even in The Gospel Jesus showed the marriage supper is when He Himself sits down in His Kingdom with His saints after His future return to earth, and He shows the unbelieving Jews are then cast out. That ain't about a pre-trib rapture, anyone with just a little common sense should easily figure that out, since the "great whore" is already defeated per those Rev.19:1-9 verses when the marriage supper with Jesus happens.

And I noticed that you SKIPPED the Revelation 19:1-5 verses that show the "great whore" had already been destroyed by the time of that marriage supper. So what you teach should not be trusted simply because you show no interest in staying with what God's Word says.

All in Heaven...

The Heavenly dimension is to be revealed right here on earth, when Jesus comes to gather His faithful Church. Anyone who has read Genesis 2 with God's Eden upon this earth back at that time, and with what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4, should already know this.