"Not my God. Not my Jesus."

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
18,228
7,599
113
56
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then such question, as many others that encompass ANY sense of a word, can be answered "Yes" and "No".
You are playing word games AS you deny playing word games.

In epistemology, what you are doing is referred to as precision. But even here, you are mocking precise word meanings. When asked if you have a son, that encompasses ALL senses of the word. It is NOT yes and non as revealed by the next level of detail.

I say I have grandchildren. This is a simple truth. The next level of detail, the precise sense in which these people are my grandchildren is secondary. What kind of mockery of reality is it for me to deny having grandchildren on the grounds that in a certain sense of the word, they are not all biologically related? That actually changes the question, inserting a qualifier for nefarious reasons.

The Bible says to know the truth and the truth will set you free. You are enslaved by these word games.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Jesusfollower

Pancho Frijoles

Active Member
May 22, 2024
651
186
43
58
Mexico City
Faith
Other Faith
Country
Mexico
No I personally do not agree because those who followed Jesus as his disciples accepted his teachings and followed them…..that creates no theological difference, since all would be on the same page (1Cor 1:10)….
They would be on the same page in essential matters. They would not be on the same page on non-essential matters.
Why did the Council of Jerusalem took place? Because people thought differently.
Why did Paul rebuked Peter in Antioch? Because they thought differently.

There are not two human beings who are completely on the same page. Not within the Kingdom Hall you attend. Not within your own family. Your own brain finds itself split in opposite thoughts many times.
This doesn't stop us to agree on the essential. That's why you can invoke unity in your congregation, in your family and in your own brain.


in all these faiths, there is no agreement…..
Of course there is agreement. I guess they agree on 90%.
Your personal agenda in this forum, Jane, as the personal agenda of @Wrangler @marks, @Jesusfollower , makes you focus on the remaining 10%, and as a consequence, deny the possibility of unity.
My personal agenda in this forum is different. I focus on the 90% and declare that unity is possible.
However, in our daily life, both you and me, and @Wrangler and @marks and @Jesufollower uphold the principle of unity at school, at work, within our family.

The fact that people from different religious can act together to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world is evident in real life.
The house you live in, the Internet you are using, the medicine you're taking, the lack of Inquisitorial tribunals in your country, are all evidence of this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truthseeker9

Pancho Frijoles

Active Member
May 22, 2024
651
186
43
58
Mexico City
Faith
Other Faith
Country
Mexico
You are playing word games AS you deny playing word games.

In epistemology, what you are doing is referred to as precision. But even here, you are mocking precise word meanings. When asked if you have a son, that encompasses ALL senses of the word. It is NOT yes and non as revealed by the next level of detail.
When you are being asked if you have a son, you must understand the context in which that question is being asked. What does your partner already know? What does he want and need to know?
The more you know about the context, the less precision you need.

Many centuries later, we have become lazy enough as to dig into the context in which a statement of the sacred Scriptures was made.
That's the origin of many of the differences in interpretation.

I say I have grandchildren. This is a simple truth. The next level of detail, the precise sense in which these people are my grandchildren is secondary. What kind of mockery of reality is it for me to deny having grandchildren on the grounds that in a certain sense of the word, they are not all biologically related? That actually changes the question, inserting a qualifier for nefarious reasons.
If you are addressing your listeners/readers within the right context, then those reasons are not nefarious, but necessary.

I have presented to you and our readers a bunch of examples taken from the Bible.
What do you say about them?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Truthseeker9

Pancho Frijoles

Active Member
May 22, 2024
651
186
43
58
Mexico City
Faith
Other Faith
Country
Mexico
I am not stupid, and can give you factual info that Islam is NOT a religion of peace and don't tell me my factual information can be dangerous to "peace"
YOU are the danger to peace we have as sisters and brothers IN Christ Jesus on this Forum.

You are not stupid.
You are just misinformed about Islam and about me.
You are a noble human being, and your destiny, known by God since the beginning of time, is to be in His presence.
May God keep blessing you with all sort of material and spiritual blessings.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Truthseeker9

Pancho Frijoles

Active Member
May 22, 2024
651
186
43
58
Mexico City
Faith
Other Faith
Country
Mexico
The Son of God, Jesus, is not a metaphor.
Should we be surprised that "modern scholars" would downgrade the literal begotten status of the Son of God to nothing more than a metaphor?

...The Bible refers to Christ as God’s Son at least 120 times.

Those 120 times it is meant as a metaphor and you know it in your heart: God was no wife and no reproductive organs
You can repeat 900 times "Our Father who art in heaven" when you pray. But you know that "Father" is a metaphor and "heaven" is a metaphor. God is not literally your Father, and God is not in heaven.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truthseeker9

Pancho Frijoles

Active Member
May 22, 2024
651
186
43
58
Mexico City
Faith
Other Faith
Country
Mexico
I’m not watching the thread and haven’t seen the scenario. A Jewish dentist who deceives his patient in the manner you’ve described is simply a Jewish criminal. (Replace “Jewish” with “Christian,” Muslim,” “Baha’i,” etc. and the person is still just a criminal.)
Sorry for not putting you in the context.
Some day if you want we can run the scenario together. I call it "The Paradox of the Most Merciful".


Most forum members probably have little interest in the topic. Few members are posting in the thread (I haven’t counted) but once people go into debate* mode war is the way. Everyone will eventually move on to something else and few, if any, will have changed their mind.

* Debate is waging word war.

I value your views highly, Matthias.
All threads die and this one will die as well. What I like, though, is that
  • our statements remain written; in my case, connected to a person who has disclosed his identity to assume responsibility for those statements
  • the very fact of refuting someone gives us the opportunity to challenge the rationale for our own beliefs
 

Pancho Frijoles

Active Member
May 22, 2024
651
186
43
58
Mexico City
Faith
Other Faith
Country
Mexico
Precision.

Every day we are involved in transactions with persons of all religions, that are built on trust.
We exchange or give freely some values (information, a product, a service, our time) trusting that we all share a similar set of values, so that we are not going to get harmed. It works more than 90% of the time.

God is the source of all moral and material values.
The fact that you and I are exchanging views in this thread without fearing for our lives, money or reputation, is a good sign that we are agreeing on something essential, which is godly.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Truthseeker9

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
23,228
33,167
113
81
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
People have thousands of interpretations about God's revelation.
Do you think you are 100% correct in your theology, marks?
I don't think I am 100% correct... and I believe that I am too limited and too biased to detect most of my mistakes.
And so we continue, hopefully, to grow closer to God. Did the man Jesus grow?
Lu 2:40And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
Lu 2:52And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
18,228
7,599
113
56
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you are addressing your listeners/readers within the right context, then those reasons are not nefarious, but necessary.
IF, again.
I have presented to you and our readers a bunch of examples taken from the Bible.
What do you say about them?
Nothing. I haven't read every post but we have word played with son, dog and grandchild. My uncle used to call your word play 'mental masturbation.' You are simply in denial that people could have a different God and different Jesus in their doctrine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brakelite

Jesusfollower

Member
May 12, 2024
96
44
18
Eastern township
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
pancho, here is a testimony it is about what i was telling you about the miraculous conversions; please have a look. We are in the end times, Pancho not much time left.

 
  • Like
Reactions: GTW27

Cassandra

Well-Known Member
Sep 24, 2021
2,859
3,241
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Did you know that, in the beginning, Yahweh was one of many gods worshipped in what we know today as Israel?
Did you know that the cult to Yahweh was different from the cult of El (Elohim) and that later on these two cults merged into one?
Did you know that it is very likely that His wife was Asherah?
Did you know that Yawheh was represented as a bull or calf?
I'm only to page 5.

So there were folk in Israel who worshipped other gods? And? The Bible tells us that.
I didn't know about the 2 cults but this information stinks to high heaven.
God does not have a wife!. Have you read all of the crap about the queen of heaven Do you know that many worshipped a false goddess , and were condemned for it?
Jeremiah 7:18 (NIV)

"The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes to offer to the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to arouse my anger."
Jeremiah 44:17-19 (NIV)

"We will certainly do everything we said we would: We will burn incense to the Queen of Heaven and will pour out drink offerings to her just as we and our ancestors, our kings and our officials did in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. At that time we had plenty of food and were well off and suffered no harm. But ever since we stopped burning incense to the Queen of Heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have had nothing and have been perishing by sword and famine."
The women added, "When we burned incense to the Queen of Heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, did not our husbands know that we were making cakes impressed with her image and pouring out drink offerings to her?"
Jeremiah 44:25 (NIV)

"This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: You and your wives have shown by your actions what you promised when you said, ‘We will certainly carry out the vows we made to burn incense and pour out drink offerings to the Queen of Heaven.’ Go ahead then, do what you promised! Keep your vows!"
These verses highlight the practice of worshipping the Queen of Heaven and the condemnation of such practices by the prophet Jeremiah.
Did you know that YAHWEH has a son--Allah does not!!
Did you know that Allah was supposed to have grabbed Jesus before He was killed? Makes zero sense.
The reason Jesus came to earth was to die for us. Do you not know this? The Bible says the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, but not in the Quran.

All religions are not going to unite and sing Kumbaya. The Bible speaks of one way.
Acts 4:12 (NIV)"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
 
J

Johann

Guest
I'm only to page 5.

So there were folk in Israel who worshipped other gods? And? The Bible tells us that.
I didn't know about the 2 cults but this information stinks to high heaven.
God does not have a wife!. Have you read all of the crap about the queen of heaven Do you know that many worshipped a false goddess , and were condemned for it?
Jeremiah 7:18 (NIV)


Jeremiah 44:17-19 (NIV)


Jeremiah 44:25 (NIV)



These verses highlight the practice of worshipping the Queen of Heaven and the condemnation of such practices by the prophet Jeremiah.
Did you know that YAHWEH has a son--Allah does not!!
Did you know that Allah was supposed to have grabbed Jesus before He was killed? Makes zero sense.
The reason Jesus came to earth was to die for us. Do you not know this? The Bible says the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, but not in the Quran.

All religions are not going to unite and sing Kumbaya. The Bible speaks of one way.
Acts 4:12 (NIV)"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
Don't get annoyed with me when I am "short" sometimes with others @Cassandra
 
  • Like
Reactions: PS95

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,665
24,012
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
while Christians were praying to wooden statues, and worshipping a loaf of bread
No, the Christians were not doing that. Some people were, who again diverged from the Biblical God to one of their own making, as people have done over the millennia.

Again, Islam is wholly incompatible with Christianity, and all these arguments you've presented strike me the same way. "Let's ignore the specifics of the Bible so we can blend all gods together into one." This means effectively you have no god, because the only god you can come up with is hopelessly conflicted being of your own design. Just like those who pray to blocks of carved and gilded wood.

Much love!
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,485
13,547
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
@Pancho Frijoles I hope this doesn’t mean what I think it means, my friend. If it does and you read this, please know that I’m not pleased with this development.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johann

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,899
7,170
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
You can repeat 900 times "Our Father who art in heaven" when you pray. But you know that "Father" is a metaphor and "heaven" is a metaphor. God is not literally your Father, and God is not in heaven.
Now we are getting down to the nitty gritty. In order to convince us to accept your Babylonian confused syncretic idol, you first have to destroy, rip apart, tear down, and trample upon the principle truths of Scripture regarding Truth.
KJV Isaiah 44:8-20
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?
11 Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; yet they shall fear, and they shall be ashamed together.
12 The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint.
13 The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.
14 He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it.
15 Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
16 He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:
17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.
18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
19 And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?

You think Christians ought to give up all they believe in in favor of unity with those who are a lie and a deceiver? No. They, if they are true to the God they profess to love and serve... If they are true to the God that died and saved them...
will not do that.
You may misunderstand what I'm about to say, but it's true nevertheless. Christianity, true Christianity wherein the real follower of Christ (I say real because there are many charlatans and hypocrites) is the most intolerant of religions. It is narrow minded. It is straight. It does not condone nor does it compromise or mix truth with error. The stakes are too high to permit or even slightly relax the high standards of moral and intellectual reasoning that facilitate the inspiration of the Spirit of God that must accompany the study of truth. Darkness cannot ever be permitted to block out the light by interposing itself between truth and error, good and evil. Evil must be exposed wherever and whenever it is found. In Islam, in the occult, in secular government, in false religions, and yes, even in those areas where exists fake Christianity.
Christ commands,
KJV Revelation 18:4-5
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

KJV 2 Corinthians 6:14-18
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

That's why we shouldn't consider that a person is worshipping a false god, if they are producing the fruits of the Spirit, regardless of their religion. Do you agree?
Fruit can be temporary, and even a cover for sin.
There are secular people in the world who wouldn't dream of breaking God's commandments. While they might not keep them all, there are certainly some who would find utterly repugnant that they should cheat on their wife or husband, nor even consider looking upon any other to lust after them.
There are others who are meticulous in honesty, they would never lie , cheat on their taxes, nor steal from anyone.
There are others who are so content with their lives that covetousness may as well be a foreign language.
And there are still others who may do all of the above and also dote on their parents and love and care for them right up to the grave.
Yet none of this could be construed as fruit of the Spirit. Obedience maybe, but our righteousness is as filthy rags.

There are church-going people who sing hymns. Yet they then go home and beat their wives and watch pornography on television.
There are still others who 'religiously' attend church every week but live the rest of the week pursuing money, fame, and reputation at the expense of others. There are even some who attend church every week because it benefits them to have the contacts for sales and business. Yet that couldn't be construed as fruit either. But those things do describe the majority in many religious institutions these days. Particularly those outside of Christ. But they show a fair face to the world, however, wise discernment reveals the true nature of things. Those fruit of the Spirit are not plural. It's all or nothing. They are all one fruit, and one sure result of knowing Christ and having Him in the heart, and having His commandments written on the mind.

KJV Galatians 5:22-24
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johann