Jehovah is missing?

[ElieG12]

Who is Jesus in relation to other men?

Much love!

Jesus is what he said: the Son of God.

He is the means through which God created the Universe, the Messiah God sent, his high priest in heaven, our King, the head of the real Christian congregation, our Savior, the archangel who leads the loyal angels of God in battle, the Logos of God, a Sevant of God, a divine being, a very powerful spirit who received from God the authority over the creation, ...

He is not equal to God. He has a God, and the true God is called "God of gods, the Majesty, the Supreme, the Most High God, the Almighty" in the Bible. God has no one to call God ... and Jesus does.

 

[PS95]

Accusations without real evidence are slander.

You are accusing me of slander? Which accusation is slanderous, Elie?

BTW, I never read about a real Christian in the first century who was insulting Jews (or Gentiles) all the way because they didn't believe what they were teaching. That's some modern ("Christian"???) really bad behaviour and its originator is the father of all perversion and mistreatment to others. Jehovah's Witnesses do not engage in such behavior when discussing Bible topics with others

Well, the Jews disowned their family members who went to Christ. That's what Jws do too! What a coincidence.

 

[marks]

Jesus is what he said: the Son of God.

He is the means through which God created the Universe, the Messiah God sent, his high priest in heaven, our King, the head of the real Christian congregation, our Savior, the archangel who leads the loyal angels of God in battle, the Logos of God, a Sevant of God, a divine being, a very powerful spirit who received from God the authority over the creation, ...

He is not equal to God. He has a God, and the true God is called "god of gods" in the Bible, God has no one to call God and Jesus does.

You didn't answer my question, I have to wonder why?

Much love!

 

[ElieG12]

You didn't answer my question, I have to wonder why?

Much love!

Maybe you didn't ask the question well. Try a different wording and make yourself understandable.

 

[ElieG12]

You are accusing me of slander? Which accusation is slanderous, Elie?


Well, the Jews disowned their family members who went to Christ. That's what Jws do too! What a coincidence.

I am not interested in mundane conflicts.

Have a wonderful day.

 

[marks]

Maybe you didn't ask the question well. Try a different wording and make yourself understandable.

It seems a simple question to me, which I can easily answer.

As you've requested, try this:

Compare and contrast Jesus Christ to any/every other man.

Much love!

 

[ElieG12]

Compare and contrast Jesus Christ to any other man.

Much love!

Jesus was different to other men because he was a spirit in heaven, next to God, before he was born as a human. He was conceived in a virgin woman by the power of the spirit of God. He was appointed by God as "his chosen one, his approved one." He taught things that his Father instructed him to teach. He offered his body as a sacrifice for human beings.

I don't know if I pleased you or if you want to hear something specific. If so, you will need to be more specific in your question.

 

[marks]

Jesus was different to other men because he was a spirit in heaven, next to God, before he was born as a human.

This part addresses my question. The remainder of your reply doesn't contain comparisons or contrasts, just this sentence.

You are saying that Jesus was a spirit in heaven prior to being born, and have implied that other men are not spirits in heaven before being born, correct?

This is to say, Jesus had heavenly pre-existence while other men did not, this is correct?

And the next question would be then, how long has Jesus existed?

Much love!

 

[ElieG12]

This part addresses my question.

You are saying that Jesus was a spirit in heaven prior to being born, and have implied that other men are not spirits in heaven before being born, correct?

Much love!

Yes.

There is no teaching in the Scriptures about men living in heaven or anywhere else before being born. Jesus is the only one about whom that is taught.

About Jesus it says:

John 8:23 He went on to say to them: “You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. You are from this world; I am not from this world.

... 6:62 What, therefore, if you should see the Son of man ascending to where he was before?

But about other men:

Rom. 9:10 (...) Rebekah conceived twins from the one man, Isaac our forefather; 11 for when they had not yet been born and had not practiced anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not on works, but on the One who calls, 12 it was said to her: “The older will be the slave of the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated.”

If Jacob (Israel) didn't do anything good or bad before being born, then he was nowhere. And if he wasn't, no one else was ... but Jesus.

 

[Wrangler]

The fact that Jesus has a God even in heaven is ignored because it fights with their doctrines.

Rev 3:21 refers to 2 thrones. Odd that it does not refer to 3 or 1.

 

[ElieG12]

..

And the next question would be then, how long has Jesus existed?

Much love!

He is considered the Son of God. The word "son" implies a beginning.

Jesus is called Only Begotten and Firstborn of God. In Greek, both titles point to a time when Jesus was begotten.

Catholics Theologians invented a doctrine centuries ago that describes a beginningless pre-human Jesus, and called it eternal generation or something like that. That idea is evidently a figment of their imagination, because nothing like that exists in real life or is taugh in the Bible.

The father-son filial relationship was chosen by God to express his relationship with his Firstborn because it accurately describes His authority and the beginning of his fatherhood as Creator.

 

[marks]

He is considered the Son of God. The word "son" implies a beginning.

Jesus is called Only Begotten and Firstborn of God. In Greek, both titles point to a time when Jesus was begotten.

"Son" declares relationship. "Son" being born to "father" and "mother" is anthropological, and seems to show that you are understanding the same circumstance for Jesus? Is that correct? So that Jesus' birth in heaven compares to men's birth on earth? A new creature formed from the union of 2 parents? So that Jesus' earthly birth was His own "born again" experience?

Much love!

 

[marks]

But about other men:

Rom. 9:10 (...) Rebekah conceived twins from the one man, Isaac our forefather; 11 for when they had not yet been born and had not practiced anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not on works, but on the One who calls, 12 it was said to her: “The older will be the slave of the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated.”

So then the reality of Jesus would be shown in a passage such as this one?

John 17:5 KJV
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Correct?

Much love!

 

[marks]

The father-son filial relationship was chosen by God to express his relationship with his Firstborn because it accurately describes the authority and beginning of his fatherhood as Creator.

Beginning of His Fatherhood? Interesting! So God was not always the Father? But rather birthed a son, and became a Father? And you are not thinking in terms of "mother", right? Only the Father?

Much love!

 

[ElieG12]

"Son" declares relationship. "Son" being born to "father" and "mother" is anthropological, and seems to show that you are understanding the same circumstance for Jesus? Is that correct?

Much love!

God chose the wording for some reason. He wanted us to understand who is his Firstborn.

The Bible called Jesus with some expressions that confirm his origin:

1) the firstborn of all creation in Col. 1:15;
2) the beginning of the creation of God in Rev. 3:14.

Jesus himself is described as "the beginning", just like that. (Col. 1:18; Prov. 8:22). It means he is the very first son of God, and that makes him his Only Begotten.

Believe me: it is not about being "chief or head" of the creation. It is about being the first in order, like first, second, third, ...

Col. 1:18 (...) so that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him

 

[marks]

The Bible called Jesus with some expressions that confirm his origin:

1) the firstborn of all creation in Col. 1:15;
2) the beginning of the creation of God in Rev. 3:14.

You aren't telling me that you are unaware of the various uses of those terms, are you? We are still talking about Jesus, and not another, is that right?

Much love!

 

[marks]

God chose the wording for some reason. He wanted us to understand who is his Firstborn.

The Bible called Jesus with some expressions that confirm his origin:

1) the firstborn of all creation in Col. 1:15;
2) the beginning of the creation of God in Rev. 3:14.

Jesus himself is described as "the beginning", just like that. (Col. 1:18; Prov. 8:22). It means he is the very first son of God, and that makes him his Only Begotten.

Believe me: it is not about being "chief or head" of the creation. It is about being the first in order, like first, second, third, ...

Col. 1:18 (...) so that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him

So to be clear . . . we don't want misunderstandings . . . At some time in the distant past, prior to creation, God became a Father, this is correct? After which time then He could become Fatherly, paternal, right?

Much love!

 

[ElieG12]

Beginning of His Fatherhood? Interesting! So God was not always the Father? But rather birthed a son, and became a Father? And you are not thinking in terms of "mother", right? Only the Father?

Much love!

You are twisting my words.

God did not "father" Jesus as a human does.

He created him, but in a different way from the rest of his children. That's why it is said that he begat him. It is the way the Bible describes it, and that is why we can understand that God calls his Son as Firstborn, which in Greek is:

πρωτότοκος == πρῶτος (first) + τίκτω (bring to the world)

 

[marks]

Believe me: it is not about being "chief or head" of the creation.

No offence, but it's not about "believing you". I believe the Bible, and test your answer against the Bible.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You are twisting my words.

I'm asking you questions. If you don't want to answer, you don't have to.

Much love!