The social gospel?

[Episkopos]

I think you're just simply explaining a legalistic person that feels they have to follow every jot and tittle,
and the spiritual person that walks in love and love covers a multitude of sins.

Could it be that simple?

Are you able to read what I posted? I put in colours. Can you see the colours? Or are you going to fluff it away?

 

[Episkopos]

ON THAT DAY what?

Can a carnal believer really be a believer?
Isn't there supposed to be a transformation?

You didn't read my post or you have not been given the ability to read what I wrote. If you had you could read it and not ask a silly question like that.

Is there anybody that can read my post and answer her question? Any at all?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Now, I have explained the way of truth in so many ways...but the comprehension is very slow or non-existent. I will add one more post that explains the gospel...I just need one verse to do it. Now, maybe half of the readers won't be able to read my post...lest they read with their eyes and understand with their heart and the Lord should heal them.

Anyhow...here is the verse.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord". Rom 6:23

There are two statements in the above verse. I have part A in green and part B in orange.

Now a religious believer will think that part A is for the world and Part B is for them...judging by first cut believer-ship. These think that the bible is written to the world as opposed to the people of God.

A spiritual believer KNOWS that the bible is written to the people of God, not the world, and takes the formulas seriously...and doesn't ignore any part of God's world but fluffing it on others.

As such the spiritual believer recognizes that the death mentioned in part A is not a physical death but a spiritual death...as in...on the day you eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you will die. Physically die? No die or be separated from God's presence. And so the fall of mankind took place from God's holy presence.

Now the gospel is a restoration of mankind back into the presence of God. How? By giving us a resurrection life that is eternal and overcoming over sin.

SO then the spiritual believer sees Part A and part B as a BOTH/AND...whereas a religious believer sees them as an either/or with them choosing life for themselves and ignoring half the verse as for others. How many will ignore the bible in their quest to justify themselves? MANY.

So, the formula shows us that if we walk according to the flesh we die...we will not walk in holiness in eternal life. But the gospel is about a life that OVERCOMES sin and therefore allows us to be saved above the law. Again an aircraft doesn't cancel out gravity...it overcomes gravity by the law of flight.

So a spiritual believer understands the gospel as the power of God over sin...not a throwing away of the law of God for themselves.

Not so the religious believer who walks in the futility of the carnal mind..so that unless God eliminates the law for them then they are left hanging...as some here realize. But what these don't understand is the gospel....which is the power of God us-ward who believe...that fulfills the law and adds in something new...a new and living way that overcomes sin, the world and the devil...by grace through faith.

The wage of sin is death

This means in order to see life the wage would need to be removed

Here is where EPI loses track of true Christian thinking and loses any sign of orthodoxy or Christian doctrine

In order to be made alive. The wage must be paid. This is according to a righteous judge. Which is the gift of God. The gift of life is available BECAUSE he paid the debt on the cross. Since the debt is paid (Jesus said in ful) ie it is finished

God is free to offer life to everyone. But he will not force it on you any more than he forced the children of Israel to look at the serpent so they all would live. He gave them a choice. Look in faith and live. Reject in unbelief and continue to die

That is Christian salvation

He who believes is not condemned (will live)

He who does not believe is condemned already (continue to die unless they repent and come to faith)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think you're just simply explaining a legalistic person that feels they have to follow every jot and tittle,
and the spiritual person that walks in love and love covers a multitude of sins.

Could it be that simple?

He needs you to be confused so you will look to him for guidance. It is how he draws you in

Keep looking at all he says

 

[GodsGrace]

You didn't read my post or you have not been given the ability to read what I wrote. If you had you could read it and not ask a silly question like that.

Is there anybody that can read my post and answer her question? Any at all?

First of all, I find your beliefs very difficult to understand...
I thought I did for a moment there, but guess not.

Second....you state ON THAT DAY.....
I like to be precise when I reply and want to understand what I'm replying to.
I never guess as to what a person is saying, but like to clarify.

ON THAT DAY.....right.
You have to clearly say what you're speaking of.

Maybe persons don't understand you because you state rather new concepts....

 

[GodsGrace]

He needs you to be confused so you will look to him for guidance. It is how he draws you in

Keep looking at all he says

LOL
NOBODY could draw me in!!
Been a mainline Christian too long!

I'm VERY orthodox, and I don't mean the denomnation.
Thanks for the heads up, but I kind of am understanding this already.

 

[GodsGrace]

You didn't read my post or you have not been given the ability to read what I wrote. If you had you could read it and not ask a silly question like that.

Is there anybody that can read my post and answer her question? Any at all?

Or YOU make discussion difficult.

 

[GodsGrace]

You didn't read my post or you have not been given the ability to read what I wrote. If you had you could read it and not ask a silly question like that.

Is there anybody that can read my post and answer her question? Any at all?

Really Episkipos,
You don't have to answer my question.
Good night.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You think a child of God WILL obey God?

No I do not think they will I KNOW THEY WILL

Will they do it perfectly? No. But will they continue in sin no. Again John comes to our rescue. Whoever sins habitually has never seen or known god whoever is born of God can. It continue in sin.

So do you believe in sinless perfection too?
Can't be explained any better EG.

No I do not. That’s why I do not believe we can ever meet Gods standard and every day we walk we walk in grace

Do you believe in monergism or synergism?

I believe in the word of God. I try not to focus on doctrines. They do not mean much. Ask me a specific question and I will answer

Do you have ANYTHING to do with your ongoing salvation or not?

No. How could I. What could I add to the cross that could save me? Nothing.

Do you expect Jesus to do EVERYTHING for you or do you think you can do some stuff with the help of the
Holy Spirit but it is still YOU that is doing the work?

Jesus paid it all on the cross My salvation is complete.

Now my Christian growth that is a different story. But even that all I can do is cooperate with god to allow him to grow
Me as I learn to trust him and take steps of faith

Do you believe you lost your free will at salvation?

Nope

See. I told you you'd find fault with the example.

That’s because the example was faulty

And you're right to....this is why we should stick to scripture.

Amen and amen

God said YOU MUST OBEY. Not posting any more verses.

One more time

He who sins has never seen or known God
He who is born of God can not sin. 1 John 3.

YOU say you WILL
obey.
So do you?
You obey perfectly?

Who said I obey perfectly no one does but God

But I can’t live in sin because I have been born of God. Do you have faith God will change you?

In your scenario, you must obey perfectly because, alas, it's GOD that's making you obey.

No that would be a legalistic senecio that says we must obey

I do not believe this

Do you ever sin?
Alas, in your scenario, it's GOD that makes you sin.

Your scenario is wrong.
We obey God because we want to.
But we don't always obey.
But we must obey.

Even if we obey our best we will still fall short.

That is where our disconnect is

What's the solution?

Trust God. Paul said he is confident of this very thing. That he who began a good work will (not Might) complete it until the day of Christ. I trust that also. I do not think God will fail. I have failed and will continue to fail because I am not perfect so I will continue to
Trust god

Where does the bible say that God demands perfection?

The law demanded perfection. Cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey ever will rd as Moses said. Paul Repeated it in gal 3. And James said if we keep the whole law yet stumble in one point we are guilty

Do you think I can not live up to the standard of the law and still be saved by my obedience?

If you've broken one law, you've broken them all?
What does that mean anyway?

It means gods standard is so steep if we break even one command we have fallen below gods standard. As if we broke them all.

You say that you must meet God's demands, but you know you cannot.
So John explained this very well in his first letter.

Yes that’s why I require grace i Can not save myself . That’s why I must be saved

No.
That's not what it means.
You're so worried about legalism that you read everything thru those lenses.

You’re so worried about free grace you read through that lense. So let’s stop and just read the passage for what it says and not try to think we know what the other person thinks

Matthew 5:20

Try again.
I can't understand for you....you have to do that on your own.

I understand it. I can’t understand it for you what kind of response is that?

Jesus said OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS had to surpass that of the pharisees.

Yes if we want to save ourselves

I guarantee my does not exceed theirs and I would venture yours does not either

Which means we have to become like the tax collector and call out to God. Because are not qualified

No. Not right.

Well unless you can prove otherwise I can not see it any other way

We never do.
But we're SUPPOSED to....
according to you, we obey if we want to.
No. We obey because we have to.

No stop putting words in my
Mouth i
Never said any such thing

We never will be.
But we could keep trying.
That's what sanctification is all about.

Yes

But if we are trying to save ourself by being sanctified. You just acknowledge that we could Never do it. That’s why we keep moving forward Not back

Jesus said IT IS FINISHED meaning what HE came to do.
It was completed.

Yes

He came to do what he said. He lived the world he came to save it (John 3)

Did you also know the word Jesus used also
Means paid in full? Look it up

YOU still have YOUR part to do.
YOU aren't finished yet.

I have no part to do. I can’t save
Myself. I am not under law I am under grace. Why would you want to put me under law?

 

[Christian Soldier]

Why do you care what Calvin believed or Arminius?

Why not read the NT and believe what IT teaches?

So do you believe Calvin or orthodox Christianity?

Sorry. Just got here.

I understand what your saying, but it's not that simple. If what you say was possible, the Church wouldn't be divided into 40,000+ denominations. Each of those denominations claims to do what your suggesting.
The division in the Church came after the Reformers translated the Bible into the common languages in the 1500's. As soon as ordinary people started reading the Bible, they formed their own denominations, sects and cults. The latest figures indicate, that there are currently 45,000 denominations and the number is set to rise.

So that proves that your idea of just reading the gospel, is wishful thinking, because the reality is that we have 45,000 different gospels. Everyone reads it and comes away with a their own version. God Word is not simple to understand as you suggest, denominations teach radically different gospels. If the gospel was simple and straightforward as you suggest we wouldn't have so many radically different versions of it.

The debate over, who has the correct interpretation and understanding of the gospel, has been raging for the past 500 years and it will continue to the end of time. Nobody likes to be corrected or proven to be wrong, that's just human nature. I have spoken to many people from different denominations during our door knocking outreach ministry, and found most say they intend to hold onto their religious beliefs until they die, even if they are wrong. The older people say they have invested their whole lives into following their religion, so even if someone shows them fundamental faults with it, they're still determined to hold onto it to the end.

I spoke to a Roman Catholic Priest, who said "the biggest mistake the Catholic Churh ever made was to allow the common people to have access to the Bible. He said, you give the bible to ten different people and they will all have different views. He was right, that's exactly how Denominationalism came about.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I agree with you 100%
But I also think you might be reformed....not sure, just got here.

So will stop for now.

Yes, it's easy to spot a reformed person in the crowd. We stand out like a sore thumb.

 

[Lizbeth]

Good to hear.
Keep up the good work.

Could you just explain what the traditions of man has to do with Matthew 5:20.

Also could you state what you posted above in your own words....
I don't hear Jesus saying anything about hypocrites in Matthew 5:20.

See the connection between the two passages….


Mat 5:19-20

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Mar 7:7-9

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Kind of. The bible can be read on more than one level. But as soon as person reads the bible to justify themselves they fall into trap. At its deeper level the bible is more a book of questions than of answers.
People will be tempted to think they have found the answers without any experience of what the bible attests to.


That's false. God accepts children, and the meek, the broken and contrite. The repentant..


Again that's false. Even a cup of cold water given to a disciple...


Fine...but will you read? Will you connect the dots?


On the righteousness level yes. For the holiness level we have the Holy Spirit convicting people of sin../even apart from the bible. In fact, it was that very conviction of sin that led me to pick up a bible.


On the holiness level....yes. A man will covet, for instance even if he doesn't do anything about it. A man will be wrathful at times even if he doesn't murder.


On the holiness level yes. But the commandments are also useful in society at large to jeep on the temporal, physical, righteousness level. For example...all people will be judged based on the second great commandment... to love others as ourselves.

I will leave you to it and pray you find what you think you are looking for.

My Pastor told me that we don't read the Bible, he said the Bible reads us. It tells us everything we need to know about ourselves. We don't make the Bible conform to our view, the Bible forces us to abandon our wisdom and understanding and it conforms us to what God wants us to believe and know.

Most people approach the Bible like it was a smorgasbord, where they take the things we like and ignore the things we don't like. If we believe the Bible is Gods Word, then we must accept everything He said. And we should never add anything or take away anything, as that suggests that Gods Word is insufficient and unreliable.

I've been trying to understand the "holiness level" and the "temporal, physical righteousness level" you speak of. I just don't get what you mean by these "levels", I haven't found anything in the Bible to support these levels. The person is one, just as Go is One. Yes we do have a soul and body but they are joined one unit, the body follows the sole i everything so we can't speak of them as being autonomous and separate to each other.

People will be judged according to or works, and not only according to the second commandment.

 

[Christian Soldier]

No I reject what you say. In fact it’s not even you your a man follower.

Yea God made them alive. And if you read further you will find out when.

See in the passage it says it is by grace we have been saved (that’s how we are made alive). If you did not do what a lot of you do and stop but kept reading you would find out when

For it is by grace we have been saved (made alive) THROUGH FAITH

Nice try. Next time put the whole passage don’t. Don’t try to be so deceptive

There you go, adding works to salvation in open rebellion against what God said. "THROUGH FAITH" doesn't mean your faith as dead men have nothing but a rotting corpse to add to their salvation. This is the problem with you Arminians, you can't resist the temptation to rob God of His glory and give it to yourself. That way you have plenty to boast about.

Arminians claim to naturally poses "FAITH" while the rest of us have to beg for it. Lucifer fell for the same reason, He wanted the glory for Himself exactly the same as you Arminians. The Bible never said that we are born with faith to save ourselves, so stop pushing unbiblical heresy. God said we are born dead in trespasses and sin, but you claim dead men can save themselves, give me a break...