The social gospel?

[Eternally Grateful]

Saved FROM sin. Listen very carefully. :cool:

Does not good if your not saved from the penalty if sin

 

[Lizbeth]

We are made saints when we are Born Again, seated with Jesus in Gods Kingdom.

I agree sister. Saints are all who are sanctified through faith.....by the blood of Christ, by the Holy Spirit and by the truth. Whether greater or lesser in the kingdom and everything in between.

 

[Lizbeth]

Never tell me as a Born Again to play it down @Episkopos ..I’m a spirit child of God...my question to you is...do you understand what it means even?

It’s imperative that our spirit is Born Again ?

It’s like you’re asking me to give up my birth right in Christ....NO CHANCE!!

I’m Born Again by the Living Spirit Of God....are you?

Amen...we will let no man steal our crown and undermine our faith in Jesus and what He has done for us.

 

[Episkopos]

Does not good if your not saved from the penalty if sin

No one is saved from the penalty of sin. The soul that sins it shall die. You have to deny God Himself to promote your scheme...which is fully unbiblical.

Even Paul says the same thing...and you deny it. So you are just a schemer who think he can exploit what Jesus did for his own ends. Not a wise move.

You have to understand the gospel to put all the verses together. Otherwise you are inventing ANOTHER gospel which Paul condemns.

 

[Episkopos]

Amen...we will let no man steal our crown and undermine our faith in Jesus and what He has done for us.

Is this a nursery? Let no one take our rattles. Romper room...unite! And you are not helping RJ in her trouble...but do you care?

 

[Ritajanice]

Colossians 2

New King James Version

​

Not Philosophy but Christ​

2 For I want you to know what a great conflict[a] I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh, 2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, [b]both of the Father and of Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words. 5 For though I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing [c]to see your good order and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ.
6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding [d]in it with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest anyone [e]cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead [f]bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all [g]principality and power.

Not Legalism but Christ​

11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [h]of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a [j]festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the [k]substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has [l]not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that isfrom God.
20 [m]Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and [n]neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

 

[Ritajanice]

Is this a nursery? Let no one take our rattles. Romper room...unite! And you are not helping RJ in her trouble...but do you care?

Seriously Epi....you really need to grow up in Christ...if anyone is “ troubled “ it’s you my friend..Praise God my spirit knows God via his witness His Living Holy Spirit.....I know God in my spirit/ spirit child.

It’s all about Jesus/ God Epi....it’s not all about “YOU” ...”you” is dead boring....no life in your words..

How are you progressing in faith?

Short commentary.....What is faith that pleases God?
Strong's defines this kind of faith as conviction, confidence, trust, belief, reliance, trustworthiness, and persuasion. In the New Testament setting, it is the divinely implanted principle of inward confidence, assurance, trust, and reliance in God and all that He says.

Top Bible Verses about Growth​

2 Peter 3:18 - But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

1 Timothy 4:15 - Practice these things, immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress.

Hebrews 5:12-14 - For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

Hebrews 6:1 - Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

Romans 5:2-6 - Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

Philippians 1:9 - And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment,

Job 8:7 - And though your beginning was small, your latter days will be very great.

2 Corinthians 13:5-7 - Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test. But we pray to God that you may not do wrong—not that we may appear to have met the test, but that you may do what is right, though we may seem to have failed.

1 Peter 2:1-3 - So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation-- if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good.

Colossians 2:6-7 - Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.

 

[GodsGrace]

It still does not make sense. It almost like Rita who says how and when are the same

If I WILL obey. Where does must come into the picture? If I WILl obey because it’s my new nature then must falls out of the picture. Unless you’re saying it is required to be saved. In which case we are back under ow

That’s why I question those who say we must it makes no sense

True believers WILL obey. So why do you say they must.

Since they will obey the must us cancelled out

It is if your teaching it is required to be saved. Because the onus is off Christ and on you. How good is good enough? What amount of obedience gets me in and how
Much disobedience causes me to drop out. How can one have rest if they always have to focus on being good. And can’t just focus on living others?

Our best is not good enough. If it was Jesus would have remained in heaven. Why suffer what he suffered if we could just do our best

I never said it was not important. Please do not misrepresent me.

The way you and others that say this do make it seem unimportant that we should obey God.

I'll use a human example - something I hate to do.

Let's say you're married.
You really love your wife and you want to be with her forever.
She tells you there's one thing you can't do --- you could never eat potatoes.
Now, you don't have any problem with this because her love is more important than potatoes
so it's really easy to NOT WANT to eat them.

But you also MUST NOT eat them because if you do, she'll leave you.
It's as simple as that.

Now, you're going to find problems with the above because we need to remember that
God is not a human. What HE demands is even greater!
Jesus said unless we have MORE than the righteousness than the pharisess, we will not enter into heaven.
Matthew 5:20

Now ask: Why would Jesus ever say such a thing IF I'd obey automatically?
Maybe obeying is not automatic?
Maybe we need the help of the Holy Spirit?
Maybe HE needs our COOPERATION?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No one is saved from the penalty of sin.

Then no one is saved period

Once again I ask the mods how this and @Nancy how this unorthodox unchristian belief is allowed to
Continue in the Christian forums

The soul that sins it shall die. You have to deny God Himself to promote your scheme...which is fully unbiblical.

Even Paul says the same thing...and you deny it. So you are just a schemer who think he can exploit what Jesus did for his own ends. Not a wise move.

You have to understand the gospel to put all the verses together. Otherwise you are inventing ANOTHER gospel which Paul condemns.

Nothing of value here just further proof you do not understand the Christian faith

 

[Lizbeth]

Now, you're going to find problems with the above because we need to remember that
God is not a human. What HE demands is even greater!
Jesus said unless we have MORE than the righteousness than the pharisess, we will not enter into heaven.
Matthew 5:20

Here is the righteousness of the Pharisees, which is no righteousness at all:


TOOLS

Mar 7:5
¶
Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
TOOLS

Mar 7:6
¶
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
TOOLS

Mar 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
TOOLS

Mar 7:8
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
TOOLS

Mar 7:9
¶
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

It is not that hard for the blood bought children of God who have the Holy Spirit to exceed the above. Jesus' commands are not burdensome. (Unlike the Law which was a burden neither the Jews nor their fathers could bear.)

 

[Lizbeth]

Then no one is saved period

Once again I ask the mods how this and @Nancy how this unorthodox unchristian belief is allowed to
Continue in the Christian forums

Nothing of value here just further proof you do not understand the Christian faith

Amen brother...I had the same thought....someone here is apparently in need of a fresh bottle of the first principles, my, my.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The way you and others that say this do make it seem unimportant that we should obey God.

How? Can you please explain how. How can me saying a true child if God WILL. Not might, do works make it sound unimportant. You have not explained this to me

I'll use a human example - something I hate to do.

Let's say you're married.
You really love your wife and you want to be with her forever.
She tells you there's one thing you can't do --- you could never eat potatoes.
Now, you don't have any problem with this because her love is more important than potatoes
so it's really easy to NOT WANT to eat them.

But you also MUST NOT eat them because if you do, she'll leave you.
It's as simple as that.

Well. So your saying God told me I need to
Love him perfectly or he will leave me? I am sorry this does not make sense

Now, you're going to find problems with the above because we need to remember that
God is not a human. What HE demands is even greater!

He demands perfection no one alive today has met that demand thus all have sinned and fall short

So how can we ever meet Gods demand when we already failed? It makes no sense to say I can not meet gods standard then say we are ok

Jesus said unless we have MORE than the righteousness than the pharisess, we will not enter into heaven.
Matthew 5:20

Yes. He told People that knew they
Could Not even be that righteous. That the righteous pharisees Could Not even make it

Now ask: Why would Jesus ever say such a thing IF I'd obey automatically?

To tell people tho thought they were good enough that not even the religious peiple
Of the dayCould make it by how Good they were. That Gods standard is so Much higher

Maybe obeying is not automatic?

Or maybe you can’t obey enough?

Maybe we need the help of the Holy Spirit?

You still would not be good enough

Maybe HE needs our COOPERATION?

Then we are not saved by grace and when he said it is finished he lied

 

[GodsGrace]

Here is the righteousness of the Pharisees, which is no righteousness at all:


TOOLS

Mar 7:5
¶
Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
TOOLS

Mar 7:6
¶
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
TOOLS

Mar 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
TOOLS

Mar 7:8
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
TOOLS

Mar 7:9
¶
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

It is not that hard for the blood bought children of God who have the Holy Spirit to exceed the above. Jesus' commands are not burdensome. (Unlike the Law which was a burden neither the Jews nor their fathers could bear.)

Good to hear.
Keep up the good work.

Could you just explain what the traditions of man has to do with Matthew 5:20.

Also could you state what you posted above in your own words....
I don't hear Jesus saying anything about hypocrites in Matthew 5:20.

 

[Episkopos]

Amen brother...I had the same thought....someone here is apparently in need of a fresh bottle of the first principles, my, my.

Religious people don't try to understand the bible..no, they already know what they want it to mean. So they cobble together a fable that leaves out more than half of the scriptures...and rail at anyone who mentions that small fact.

 

[Episkopos]

Now, I have explained the way of truth in so many ways...but the comprehension is very slow or non-existent. I will add one more post that explains the gospel...I just need one verse to do it. Now, maybe half of the readers won't be able to read my post...lest they read with their eyes and understand with their heart and the Lord should heal them.

Anyhow...here is the verse.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord". Rom 6:23

There are two statements in the above verse. I have part A in green and part B in orange.

Now a religious believer will think that part A is for the world and Part B is for them...judging by first cut believer-ship. These think that the bible is written to the world as opposed to the people of God.

A spiritual believer KNOWS that the bible is written to the people of God, not the world, and takes the formulas seriously...and doesn't ignore any part of God's word ....but fluffing it on to others.

As such the spiritual believer recognizes that the death mentioned in part A is not a physical death but a spiritual death...as in...on the day you eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you will die. Physically die? No die or be separated from God's presence. And so the fall of mankind took place from God's holy presence.

Now the gospel is a restoration of mankind back into the presence of God. How? By giving us a resurrection life that is eternal and overcoming over sin.

SO then the spiritual believer sees Part A and part B as a BOTH/AND...whereas a religious believer sees them as an either/or with them choosing life for themselves and ignoring half the verse as for others. How many will ignore the bible in their quest to justify themselves? MANY.

So, the formula shows us that if we walk according to the flesh we die...we will not walk in holiness in eternal life. But the gospel is about a life that OVERCOMES sin and therefore allows us to be saved above the law. Again an aircraft doesn't cancel out gravity...it overcomes gravity by the law of flight.

So a spiritual believer understands the gospel as the power of God over sin...not a throwing away of the law of God for themselves.

Not so the religious believer who walks in the futility of the carnal mind..so that unless God eliminates the law for them then they are left hanging...as some here realize. But what these don't understand is the gospel....which is the power of God us-ward who believe...that fulfills the law and adds in something new...a new and living way that overcomes sin, the world and the devil...by grace through faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

How? Can you please explain how. How can me saying a true child if God WILL. Not might, do works make it sound unimportant. You have not explained this to me

You think a child of God WILL obey God?
So do you believe in sinless perfection too?
Can't be explained any better EG.

Do you believe in monergism or synergism?
Do you have ANYTHING to do with your ongoing salvation or not?
Do you expect Jesus to do EVERYTHING for you or do you think you can do some stuff with the help of the
Holy Spirit but it is still YOU that is doing the work?

Do you believe you lost your free will at salvation?

Well. So your saying God told me I need to
Love him perfectly or he will leave me? I am sorry this does not make sense

See. I told you you'd find fault with the example.
And you're right to....this is why we should stick to scripture.

God said YOU MUST OBEY. Not posting any more verses.
YOU say you WILL obey.
So do you?
You obey perfectly?

In your scenario, you must obey perfectly because, alas, it's GOD that's making you obey.

Do you ever sin?
Alas, in your scenario, it's GOD that makes you sin.

Your scenario is wrong.
We obey God because we want to.
But we don't always obey.
But we must obey.

What's the solution?

He demands perfection no one alive today has met that demand thus all have sinned and fall short

Where does the bible say that God demands perfection?
If you've broken one law, you've broken them all?
What does that mean anyway?

So how can we ever meet Gods demand when we already failed? It makes no sense to say I can not meet gods standard then say we are ok

You say that you must meet God's demands, but you know you cannot.
So John explained this very well in his first letter.

Yes. He told People that knew they
Could Not even be that righteous. That the righteous pharisees Could Not even make it

No.
That's not what it means.
You're so worried about legalism that you read everything thru those lenses.
Matthew 5:20

Try again.
I can't understand for you....you have to do that on your own.

Jesus said OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS had to surpass that of the pharisees.

To tell people tho thought they were good enough that not even the religious peiple
Of the dayCould make it by how Good they were. That Gods standard is so Much higher

No. Not right.

Or maybe you can’t obey enough?

We never do.
But we're SUPPOSED to....
according to you, we obey if we want to.
No. We obey because we have to.

You still would not be good enough

We never will be.
But we could keep trying.
That's what sanctification is all about.

Then we are not saved by grace and when he said it is finished he lied

Jesus said IT IS FINISHED meaning what HE came to do.
It was completed.

YOU still have YOUR part to do.
YOU aren't finished yet.

 

[GodsGrace]

Now, I have explained the way of truth in so many ways...but the comprehension is very slow or non-existent. I will add one more post that explains the gospel...I just need one verse to do it. Now, maybe half of the readers won't be able to read my post...lest they read with their eyes and understand with their heart and the Lord should heal them.

Anyhow...here is the verse.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord". Rom 6:23

There are two statements in the above verse. I have part A in green and part B in orange.

Now a religious believer will think that part A is for the world and Part B is for them...judging by first cut believer-ship. These think that the bible is written to the world as opposed to the people of God.

A spiritual believer KNOWS that the bible is written to the people of God, not the world, and takes the formulas seriously...and doesn't ignore any part of God's world but fluffing it on others.

As such the spiritual believer recognizes that the death mentioned in part A is not a physical death but a spiritual death...as in...on the day you eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you will die. Physically die? No die or be separated from God's presence. And so the fall of mankind took place from God's holy presence.

Now the gospel is a restoration of mankind back into the presence of God. How? By giving us a resurrection life that is eternal and overcoming over sin.

SO then the spiritual believer sees Part A and part B as a BOTH/AND...whereas a religious believer sees them as an either/or with them choosing life for themselves and ignoring half the verse as for others. How many will ignore the bible in their quest to justify themselves? MANY.

So, the formula shows us that if we walk according to the flesh we die...we will not walk in holiness in eternal life. But the gospel is about a life that OVERCOMES sin and therefore allows us to be saved above the law. Again an aircraft doesn't cancel out gravity...it overcomes gravity by the law of flight.

So a spiritual believer understands the gospel as the power of God over sin...not a throwing away of the law of God.

Not so the religious believer who walks in the futility of the carnal mind..so that unless God eliminates the law for them then they are left hanging...as some here realize. But what these don't understand is the gospel....which is the power of God us-ward who believe...that fulfills the law and adds in something new...a new and living way that overcomes sin, the world and the devil...by grace through faith.

Above sounds good.
Except for what DEATH means.
You used Genesis as an example.
Adam died both spiritually and physically.

For the wages of sin is death....also means physical death....
sin makes us die physically since the fall.

Romans 5:12 where the above thought begins....is speaking of physical death.

When he gets to Romans 5:23, he is comparing sin as death, spiritual, and life in Christ as eternal life.

I'm just saying that sin causes both physical and spiritual death.
Had Adam never sinned, we would have lived forever.
Sin caused his death and ours in turn.

 

[Episkopos]

Above sounds good.
Except for what DEATH means.
You used Genesis as an example.
Adam died both spiritually and physically.

For the wages of sin is death....also means physical death....
sin makes us die physically since the fall.

While that is true you are ignoring what God said...He said ON THAT DAY....instantly. That's what is important to understand for a spiritual believer. A carnal believer only looks at the physical aspect because he/she doesn't care at all about holiness.

 

[GodsGrace]

Now, I have explained the way of truth in so many ways...but the comprehension is very slow or non-existent. I will add one more post that explains the gospel...I just need one verse to do it. Now, maybe half of the readers won't be able to read my post...lest they read with their eyes and understand with their heart and the Lord should heal them.

Anyhow...here is the verse.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord". Rom 6:23

There are two statements in the above verse. I have part A in green and part B in orange.

Now a religious believer will think that part A is for the world and Part B is for them...judging by first cut believer-ship. These think that the bible is written to the world as opposed to the people of God.

A spiritual believer KNOWS that the bible is written to the people of God, not the world, and takes the formulas seriously...and doesn't ignore any part of God's world but fluffing it on others.

As such the spiritual believer recognizes that the death mentioned in part A is not a physical death but a spiritual death...as in...on the day you eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you will die. Physically die? No die or be separated from God's presence. And so the fall of mankind took place from God's holy presence.

Now the gospel is a restoration of mankind back into the presence of God. How? By giving us a resurrection life that is eternal and overcoming over sin.

SO then the spiritual believer sees Part A and part B as a BOTH/AND...whereas a religious believer sees them as an either/or with them choosing life for themselves and ignoring half the verse as for others. How many will ignore the bible in their quest to justify themselves? MANY.

So, the formula shows us that if we walk according to the flesh we die...we will not walk in holiness in eternal life. But the gospel is about a life that OVERCOMES sin and therefore allows us to be saved above the law. Again an aircraft doesn't cancel out gravity...it overcomes gravity by the law of flight.

So a spiritual believer understands the gospel as the power of God over sin...not a throwing away of the law of God for themselves.

Not so the religious believer who walks in the futility of the carnal mind..so that unless God eliminates the law for them then they are left hanging...as some here realize. But what these don't understand is the gospel....which is the power of God us-ward who believe...that fulfills the law and adds in something new...a new and living way that overcomes sin, the world and the devil...by grace through faith.

I think you're just simply explaining a legalistic person that feels they have to follow every jot and tittle,
and the spiritual person that walks in love and love covers a multitude of sins.

Could it be that simple?

 

[GodsGrace]

While that is true you are ignoring what God said...He said ON THAT DAY....instantly. That's what is important to understand for a spiritual believer. A carnal believer only looks at the physical aspect because he/she doesn't care at all about holiness.

ON THAT DAY what?

Can a carnal believer really be a believer?
Isn't there supposed to be a transformation?