I Was But Now I Am

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,470
13,533
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Don't smear me with the World's Stupidity, go back, drop the subjective attitude the Dragon is using to manipulate and read what I said. I was at war in SE Asia and a man can do a lot of things with the head of his best friend staring at him as he cleans blood and guts away. I want you to realze that you are not saved to watch Yahvah's Children being raped and slaughtered. Completely dofferent and except you8 deal with it, I do not see y7ou in the LORD's Army.

How you choose to see me is your business. It doesn’t change anything at all for me.

You know (from firsthand experience) and you do it anyway. I know (without going through the experience) and refuse to do it.

I’ve counseled a few combat veterans. They’ve all had PTSD to varying degrees. They’ve all told me that they wouldn’t want anyone to go through what they went through. None of them viewed me as you do. (Maybe they’re in the minority.)

One of my best friends served in Afghanistan. Before he went overseas, he asked me to pray for him, for his wife and son, and to comfort his family if something happened to him over there. Something did happen to him over there. He made it home. He wished that he hadn’t.

He told me a few brief stories, and they were horrific. He had killed men, women and children. The children were the hardest on him. He saw one of his best friends blown up by a child who came running up to him - to give him a hug, they thought.

He told me that he hated those people with a burning passion. He spoke about them using language that was very uncharacteristic for him. He killed combatants and he killed non-combatants. And he said he would do it again in a heartbeat. No remorse. No compassion. No mercy.

One day not long after he came back to work, I was in a break room in the building where we worked together. The door was closed. My friend walked through the door to get a cup of coffee; I was standing at the sink, getting a cup of water. Without thinking anything about it, I thrust my hand into the air and said, “Hey, Ron! How …” I didn’t get any further than that. My friend turned into a monster. He was on me so fast that I didn’t have time to finish my greeting. Just as he was about to put his hands around my tnroat, he stopped. He was sweating profusely. He was breathing rapidly. He was terrified and terrifying.

I was shocked. He recovered pretty quickly, but it felt like forever to me. I didn’t know what to say or do. He apologized and told me never to do that again. He said that I didn’t realize just how close he had come to killing me. He added that he didn’t even see me initially; he saw a mujahideen. He said he sees them everywhere. In every shadow, in every loud noise, in every creaking floorboard or rustling curtain. His wife and son live in constant fear of what he might do. He knows he’s dangerous and is taking prescribed medication.

He told me that he was going to have to go back in the hospital for treatment. He was admitted (actually readmitted) to a psychiatric unit a day later and I‘ve never seen or spoken with him since. I don’t know where he is now or what he’s doing.

He told me some things that he said were important, so I’ll share a few of them with you: 1. Don’t ever join the military. 2. Don’t ever ask a combat veteran to tell stories about the war. 3. He would rather be dead than to have his son, or anyone else’s son or daughter, go through what he had gone through. 4. He was a changed man; not the same man I had known before, and never would be that man again. 5. He was a Christian went he left; he came back an agnostic (not atheist) killing machine. 6. Don’t do what he did. Learn from his tragedy.
 
Last edited:

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,470
13,533
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
… and except you8 deal with it, I do not see y7ou in the LORD's Army.

Among other things, I’m a retired clergyman.

Do you think the clergy should be armed and kill their enemies in combat?
 

TLHKAJ

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
8,750
10,393
113
US
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Among other things, I’m a retired clergyman.

Do you think the clergy should be armed and kill their enemies in combat?
So if a man was raping or murdering a child in your presence, you would do absolutely nothing?
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,470
13,533
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
So if a man was raping or murdering a child in your presence, you would do absolutely nothing?

This is a mild form of the question. Usually this fiend also wants to rape my wife, my daughter, my grandmother and, if the questioner really wants to lay it on thick, then murder them - and the family pets. While I sit quietly, watching the unspeakable horror unfold, until finally this depraved, and now exhausted man, helps himself to a snack in the refrigerator, enjoys a cold refreshing beverage (maybe two), adjusts his tie and tucks in his shirttail, then calmly walks to the door, courteously tips his hat, thanks me for a wicked good fun evening, then gently closes the door behind him and strolls happily off down the street - leaving me to clean up the mess and, perhaps, watch a little tv before turning in for the night.

You’ve exercised a little restraint. Thank you.

A man is raping or murdering a child in my presence. Would I do absolutely nothing?

Of course I would do something. What I wouldn’t do is kill the criminal.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,470
13,533
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
So if a man was raping or murdering a child in your presence, you would do absolutely nothing?

You asked your question about an unrelated hypothetical circumstance in response to my question about clergy in the military being armed and killing their enemies. He may or may not respond to my question. Will you?
 

th1b.taylor

Active Member
Dec 4, 2010
402
118
43
80
SE Texas
Among other things, I’m a retired clergyman.

Do you think the clergy should be armed and kill their enemies in combat?
Still you misconstrue what I have said. For any teacher that is a grave sin amounting to a lie. I am answering both posts and I did not ask you a trick question and you proclaim yourself to be clergy and twist what I said? My question centers in your home. I will kill any person that seeks to harm my wife or/and my daughter. You?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLHKAJ

th1b.taylor

Active Member
Dec 4, 2010
402
118
43
80
SE Texas
You asked your question about an unrelated hypothetical circumstance in response to my question about clergy in the military being armed and killing their enemies. He may or may not respond to my question. Will you?
I know conversation can be tough to follow but if I, an Eighth Grader can follow along, a man of letter should glide right through this.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,470
13,533
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Still you misconstrue what I have said. For any teacher that is a grave sin amounting to a lie. I am answering both posts and I did not ask you a trick question and you proclaim yourself to be clergy and twist what I said? My question centers in your home. I will kill any person that seeks to harm my wife or/and my daughter. You?

Please review the conversation. You responded to a question I asked in regard to soldiers. We were speaking in a military context, not about a home invasion.

I’ve already answered your question about killing someone who was seeking to harm my wife and/or my family.

I’ll reiterate my answer for you here: No. I would not kill someone who was seeking to harm my wife and / or daughter.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,470
13,533
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
I know conversation can be tough to follow but if I, an Eighth Grader can follow along, a man of letter should glide right through this.

You have an 8th grade education. I have multiple college degrees, in multiple disciplines. The difference in our levels of education is irrelevant.

Let’s glide through this together. I‘ve now addressed a military hypothetical and a home invasion hypothetical. If you have any other hypothetical I’ll address it.

What you must keep in mind is that I’m a conscientious objector and my answer is going to be the same in every hypothetical circumstance you might propose - no, I’m not going to kill anyone.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,470
13,533
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
But like a worm exposed to the sunshine you dig to escape a direct and easy question.

Ask this worm again the direct and easy question. The worm will respond with a direct and easy answer. Scouts honor.
 

th1b.taylor

Active Member
Dec 4, 2010
402
118
43
80
SE Texas
Please review the conversation. You responded to a question I asked in regard to soldiers. We were speaking in a military context, not about a home invasion.

I’ve already answered your question about killing someone who was seeking to harm my wife and/or my family.

I’ll reiterate my answer for you here: No. I would not kill someone who was seeking to harm my wife and / or daughter.
Then I will be direct, you show you are not serving My Creator and adding to the horrible image you project in the answer, I must surmise you would not stop the murder of my great grandchildren. I have naught for you,,, sad.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,470
13,533
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Then I will be direct, you show you are not serving My Creator and adding to the horrible image you project in the answer, I must surmise you would not stop the murder of my great grandchildren. I have naught for you,,, sad.

You’ve made an assumption and jumped to a conclusion. There is no guarantee that anyone can stop the murder of someone else.

You said that you were looking for a fruitful conversation with a conscientious objector. What do you consider fruitful?
 

th1b.taylor

Active Member
Dec 4, 2010
402
118
43
80
SE Texas
You have an 8th grade education. I have multiple college degrees, in multiple disciplines. The difference in our levels of education is irrelevant.

Let’s glide through this together. I‘ve now addressed a military hypothetical and a home invasion hypothetical. If you have any other hypothetical I’ll address it.

What you must keep in mind is that I’m a conscientious objector and my answer is going to be the same in every hypothetical circumstance you might propose - no, I’m not going to kill anyone.
Sargent York of WW1 fame claimed the same objection but is world famous at not demonstrating poor character. Scripture does not teach us to place our heads on the chopping block.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,470
13,533
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Sargent York of WW1 fame claimed the same objection but is world famous at not demonstrating poor character. Scripture does not teach us to place our heads on the chopping block.

Are you familiar with the Desmond Doss story from World War II?
 

Spyder

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2024
629
615
93
Holt
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If killing the enemy is sinful, then Yahweh instructed His people to sin many times.

Nehemiah 4:14 When I saw their fear, I rose and spoke to the nobles, the officials and the rest of the people: “Do not be afraid of them; remember the Lord who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives and your houses.”

1 Timothy 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Zechariah 12:8 In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the one who is feeble among them in that day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord before them.

Luke 11:21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

One can love his enemy and still destroy them while protecting family and the weak.
 
  • Like
Reactions: th1b.taylor

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,470
13,533
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
If killing the enemy is sinful, then Yahweh instructed His people to sin many times.

Nehemiah 4:14 When I saw their fear, I rose and spoke to the nobles, the officials and the rest of the people: “Do not be afraid of them; remember the Lord who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives and your houses.”

1 Timothy 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Zechariah 12:8 In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the one who is feeble among them in that day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord before them.

Luke 11:21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

One can love his enemy and still destroy them while protecting family and the weak.

One can love the enemy while protecting the family and the weak without killing.

”Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”

(Romans 12:21)

Someone wanting to to do harm to a family is someone who is intent on doing evil.

Do people who are set on killing their enemies think that is the only way their family can be protected?
 
Last edited:

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,470
13,533
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Does Jesus use violence when his family is threatened?

When his family is persecuted, tortured, murdered, does he kill those who are abusing them?
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
19,470
13,533
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
So if a man was raping or murdering a child in your presence, you would do absolutely nothing?

I’m a child of God. If someone was murdering me in his presence, would God and Jesus do absolutely nothing?

“Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him. But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and he said, ‘Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.’ But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears and rushed at him with one impulse. When they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, ‘Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!’ Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, ‘Lord, do not hold this sin against them!’ Having said this, he fell asleep.”

(Acts 7:54-60, NASB)