Very interesting exchanges here
@Matthias and @Poncho Frijoles…..
I can see both sides and the clear differences between you, but I also see another truth that seems to be hiding from both of you in the person of the resurrected Jesus Christ.
Jesus promised to come again, but He also warned about false teachers and false messiahs.
Therefore, an investigation on whether Bahá'u'lláh represents the return of Christ is warranted.
Knowing what the Bible says about the return of Christ is paramount, regardless of what we think we know.
When Jesus warned about “false messiahs”, we should use the Bible to identify such ones. The fruits they produce would be soundly based on Scripture…..the one source of information provided and inspired by the Creator. There are no other holy books written or inspired by him.
The one interesting thing that Christ said, is that he was going away to prepare a place for his disciples…..
John 14:2-4…..
“In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. And you know the way to where I am going.” (ESV)
At that point in time their heavenly destination was not apparent to them, which is why the disciples were puzzled by his words. Where was he going?…and how could they “know the way”?
V19 continues…..
“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.“ (ESV)
Jesus says “yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live and you will live”.
He speaks of a future “day” but says “I live” (present tense) and “you will live” (future tense). Jesus was resurrected and ascended to heaven in the same body that he had left (a glorious spirit body of which he emptied himself willingly) to become a mortal human.….”the last Adam”…offering to God the value of Adam’s life, to pay for the release of humanity from his awful inheritance. (Romans 5:12) Understanding the principle of redemption, is therefore at the forefront. The whole reason why he came to die for us in the first place.
His resurrection “in the spirit” was necessary, in order to return to where he was before, by his Father’s side.
David had prophesied that future event in Psalm 110:1-2....
“The LORD says to my Lord:“Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.” The LORD will stretch forth Your strong scepter from Zion, saying,“Rule in the midst of Your enemies.” . . . . The LORD has sworn and will not change His mind, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.” (NASB)
David’s “Lord” was the future Messiah Jesus Christ. The “LORD” is Yahweh/Jehovah and it is he who will make the enemies of his Christ “a footstool for his feet”. But this one with the scepter (God’s appointed King) was to “rule in the midst of his enemies”......so we are not to expect Christ’s rulership to be a time of peace to begin with...but rather a time when God allows those enemies to manifest themselves and then he will remove them.
Interesting too is the connection to Melchizedek.....who existed at the time of Abraham, (before Israel was a nation) and was both a King and a Priest......In Israel, a man could be either a king or a priest but not both.
So his kingship and priesthood were to last forever......it is a kingship and priesthood that his “chosen ones” will also inherit. (Rev 20:6)
My main argument with Bahai’s is that Jesus was NOT going to come again in the flesh…he already sacrificed that body, which was made specially for him, so that he could be born as a fleshly “son of God”, whilst also being a mortal “son of man” through his mother Mary. Having existed in heaven as a spirit son…..God’s “only begotten”….(the ”firstborn” of many sons, Col 1:15; Rev 3:14) the pre-human Jesus was God’s most trusted “servant”. (Acts 4:27) The future of the whole human race rested on his shoulders.
This son was unique as the one and only direct creation of his Father…..this is what made him a unique “monogenes”......but at the same time, “begotten”. Those “begotten” need a ‘begetter’ who existed before them.
It is not revealed how long the son spent with his Father before other spirit beings were created. It seems like the Father and son worked as a team in that endeavor. (Gen 1:26; Prov 8:30-31)
Bahá'u'lláh came as a man and he died and was buried in a rather elaborate tomb. Where is Christ’s tomb?
How is Bahá'u'lláh the returned Jesus Christ when he fulfilled no prophesy.....the “spirit of the truth” that Jesus spoke about was God’s holy spirit, it was not another mortal human. Jesus did not come to earth to die twice.
You believe that the body of Christ has all kind of non-physical properties.
Yet, you believe it is physical. You believe that spiritual bodies are physical bodies with non-physical attributes.
Well, that requires faith, and is not very different from saying Christ is a spirit.
You can't explain what a spiritual body is, and I can't explain what a spirit is.
Paul had trouble explaining what a spiritual body was because no one had ever experience what that meant back then...except Jesus.
Matthias’ belief in a different kind of fleshly body does not answer the scriptural question as to what sort of body is a “spiritual body” either. The apostles knew that Jesus had promised a resurrection like his…i.e. a resurrection “in the spirit” or as the “last Adam”...”a life giving spirit”.......a body such as the angels who had manifested to humans in the past on earth…..these angels presented themselves as humans, eating and drinking, and who had physical contact with those they were sent to....but their physical form was like a suit that they could put on and take off.
So spirit beings have the ability to manifest themselves in human bodies of “flesh and bone” as Jesus said.
Yet he did not say “flesh and blood”. The scriptural accounts tell of the appearance and disappearance of these ones. When the angels had delivered their messages, they simply dematerialised and went back to the spirit realm. Jesus too disappeared into a cloud. On one occasion he simply vanished right in front of his apostles. He could walk through walls, so he was not in human form, but could produce different bodies so that the disciples did not always recognise him. Only on two occasions did he present with the marks of his execution. Why would he do that? Because he needed them to believe that he had been raised from the dead......and it was against God’s law for humans to communicate with spirits. God made sure that they never compromised that law. (Deut 18:9-12)
That is how I see the Bible’s many prophesies and the activities of God’s servants.
God’s kingdom rules from heaven over earthly subjects. Redeemed humanity will then get to experience the kind of life God had planned for them all along.......everlasting life in paradise on earth......what we lost in Genesis is restored in Revelation. One story...one book...one author. Nothing else is needed.
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