The social gospel?

[Episkopos]

Do you think he is being sincere in his accusations? I've not seen anything in you to elicit such a reaction, and I consider it suspect. FWIW.

Much love!

I'm being sincere...but others here..?? Maybe looking for approval.

 

[Episkopos]

I'm not talking about society, I'm talking about the church here.

Then say you are when someone gets you wrong and deviates the warnings. I think your opinion changes from person to person.

Where do you get that I wash my hands of responsibility?

See my other response.

And your followers just keep liking your accusations.

You HATE that there are others who see through the many many obfuscations. As long as it is just me as an outlier...that can be handled. But if my words ever go mainstream...intolerable. :cool:

Do they ever think for themselves?

You accuse others but are a snowflake yourself...wanting to be liked. Is it wrong for others to like who they want? Do you have a problem with freedom of expression too?

 

[marks]

I'm being sincere...

I don't see any evidence of that.

Look at your post above to Lizbeth. Who are you kidding? You are continuing in your same old ways.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I just don't see any evidence of that.

I don't think you see how petty those who are against me are. Complaining when people agree with me? The religious system tries to control people and what they believe...like the Inquisition in times past. That same spirit animates religious people everywhere.

 

[marks]

I don't think you see how petty those who are against me are

Tell yourself whatever you want, you do of course have that freedom! Don't expect that your deflections will mean anything to me, I've seen you in action for years, and you have not changed.

That others put "likes" on your posts that are accusatory and so forth, it doesn't speak well for them. Approving of those who do such things, and all, you know the passage.

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

Then say you are when someone gets you wrong and deviates the warnings. I think your opinion changes from person to person.


See my other response.


You HATE that there are others who see through the many many obfuscations. As long as it is just me as an outlier...that can be handled. But if my words ever go mainstream...intolerable. :cool:


You accuse others but are a snowflake yourself...wanting to be liked. Is it wrong for others to like who they want? Do you have a problem with freedom of expression too?

Hmmm...out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Have you no fear of God?

And the pattern of your behaviour is predictable....can your followers not see this by now?

 

[Lizbeth]

Do you think he is being sincere in his accusations? I've not seen anything in you to elicit such a reaction, and I consider it suspect. FWIW.

Much love!

In answer to your question, no truly......the way Epi starts pulling things out of his hat to accuse people whenever he is confronted with the word of God......is what makes me question his sincerity and love of the truth. And I long ago stopped expecting to see any care for souls here. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde depending on which way the wind is blowing. Sad.

 

[GTW27]

In answer to your question, no truly......the way Epi starts pulling things out of his hat to accuse people whenever he is confronted with the word of God......is what makes me question his sincerity and love of the truth. And I long ago stopped expecting to see any care for souls here. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde depending on which way the wind is blowing. Sad.

Blessings in Christ Jesus Lizbeth. Your helmet of salvation has many dents from this man. I commend your patience and long suffering bringing the Gospel to this man. I could have come by and liked many of your post but I wanted to not give the wrong impression to you. I understood your words in the same way I have been understood. Well done. Sometimes The Lord has me to go after the hard cases, but even so, I do not think I could have walked that far. I imagine there is a great reward for that. I hope these words leave you encouraged.

 

[Episkopos]

Blessings in Christ Jesus Lizbeth. Your helmet of salvation has many dents from this man. I commend your patience and long suffering bringing the Gospel to this man. I could have come by and liked many of your post but I wanted to not give the wrong impression to you. I understood your words in the same way I have been understood. Well done. Sometimes The Lord has me to go after the hard cases, but even so, I do not think I could have walked that far. I imagine there is a great reward for that. I hope these words leave you encouraged.

Hey. Outer man batteries need recharging too.

 

[Episkopos]

Hmmm...out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Have you no fear of God?

And the pattern of your behaviour is predictable....can your followers not see this by now?

Again with the insults. You are showing your own abundance here. If you need an ego boost...go to a happy thread. But you can't have truth and a boost.

 

[Episkopos]

In answer to your question, no truly......the way Epi starts pulling things out of his hat to accuse people whenever he is confronted with the word of God.

LOL. As if you had a monopoly on bible verses. Your scheme only works if SOME bible verses are misunderstood. The others are conveniently ignored. Can you say...religious agenda?

.....is what makes me question his sincerity and love of the truth.

Think as you wish. It's a free country. :) Plus, it reveals what's in the heart.

And I long ago stopped expecting to see any care for souls here.

You are confusing care for souls with molly-coddling the flesh. You will get some support from others who are similarly interested in that kind of care.

Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde depending on which way the wind is blowing. Sad.

This is a totally carnal assessment. I am consistent...not twisting or obfuscating. Must be frustrating for you.

 

[Episkopos]

Tell yourself whatever you want, you do of course have that freedom!

Nice of you to bestow that freedom. :)

Don't expect that your deflections will mean anything to me, I've seen you in action for years, and you have not changed.

Exactly my assessment. I don't think self-interest is a good thing.

That others put "likes" on your posts that are accusatory and so forth, it doesn't speak well for them.

Could you grant/bestow the same freedom on them as you have graciously allowed me to have?

Approving of those who do such things, and all, you know the passage.

Much love!

What things? I see a lot of mob rule around here. And you seem to want to hold their coats while I get lambasted. Never a whimper from you. So your agenda is noted. And you are free to expose your heart.

 

[Episkopos]

Bruised egos aside...I'm hoping that some people want to get back on topic. And discuss the gospel WITHOUT the self-interest. This doesn't need to get personal. The gospel has existed for much longer than we have been around. No need to get upset if we have missed the gist of it.

 

[Christian Soldier]

What people have a hard time figuring out is that both have an ASPECT of the truth. Arminius championed righteousness...and Calvin championed holiness. But each relied on a human one-sided understanding

We see this with Pelagius and Constantine as well. What wins out usually is the holiness argument by throwing out the righteousness argument.

End result...no balance. Those who seek after righteousness have no understanding of holiness. And those who seek after holiness have no understanding of righteousness.

And neither extreme will listen to the other to seek for a balance of the two based on the two main commandments.


Not so. We will be judged by our works. That is to determine righteousness. Yet we are saved (from sin) by grace through faith. That is to promote holiness.

There are a lot of very confused people in the churches. They defend their beliefs with an obstinate self-preservation. So they are unkind...unrighteous...unloving. and they don't care because they think an accuracy of beliefs is what God is looking for.

They both obviously do have some aspects of the truth, but the bible says "a little yeast effects the whole lump of bread dough". Likewise mixing the truth with lies spoils the whole message.

Jacob Arminius and John Calvin had fundamentally different interpretation's of the gospel. Thy disagreed on the core principals, so their views are irreconcilable. This led to the Church dividing into 40,000 Denominations, the Church is still divided over those core issues to this day.

1. Calvin believed that man is born totally depraved and spiritually dead. as such he can't respond to spiritual things as he has no concept of them. They are foolishness to him.
Arminius believed that man's nature was affected by the fall but he did not fully die (spiritually). He believes that man retained the ability to understand spiritual things and choose to believe the gospel.

2. Calvin believed that God choose certain individuals for salvation before the foundation of the world, His choice was not based on any foreseen obedience or response to the gospel such as faith, repentance etc. God chose to give faith and repentance to certain individuals according to His sovereign, will.
Aminius believed that God looked into the future and saw who would respond to the gospel with faith and repentance, so He elected them before the foundations of the world.

3. Calvin believed that Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only, and His death actually secured salvation for all of them.
Arminius believed that Christ's redeeming work made it possible for everyone to be saved, but it didn't actually secure salvation for anyone.

4. Calvin believed that the Holy Spirit works inwardly on the elect and prepares them to believe the gospel message when they hear it. While those who God didn't elect will never believe the gospel.
Arminius believed that the Holy Spirit also works inwardly on everyone, but most reject it because they have a free will to either accept or reject.

5. Calvin believed, all who are chosen by God, redeemed by Christ and given faith by the Holy Spirit are eternally saved. They are kept in the faith by the power of God so they persevere to the end.
Arminius believed that, the elect can lose their salvation by failing to keep their faith.

So we see how different these gospels are, they don't have much in common at all.

 

[Episkopos]

They both obviously do have some aspects of the truth, but the bible says "a little yeast effects the whole lump of bread dough". Likewise mixing the truth with lies spoils the whole message.

Jacob Arminius and John Calvin had fundamentally different interpretation's of the gospel. Thy disagreed on the core principals, so their views are irreconcilable. This led to the Church dividing into 40,000 Denominations, the Church is still divided over those core issues to this day.

That's because no one can seem to understand the truth. People avoid the real issues and make silly creeds and belief statements that skate around the basic issues. Arminius was championing Jesus' humanity. And Calvin was championing Jesus' divinity. Jesus has BOTH. Unless one can reconcile the two, there will be thousands of interpretations...but still only one truth.

1. Calvin believed that man is born totally depraved and spiritually dead. as such he can't respond to spiritual things as he has no concept of them. They are foolishness to him.

Holiness perspective. Jesus's divinity.

Arminius believed that man's nature was affected by the fall but he did not fully die (spiritually). He believes that man retained the ability to understand spiritual things and choose to believe the gospel.

Righteousness perspective, Jesus' humanity.

So we see how different these gospels are, they don't have much in common at all.

There is only one gospel. And the two different levels of life in the gospel that Christ brings into ONE in Himself....are meant to be experienced by disciples...not argued over in theory.

 

[Christian Soldier]

In Acts, it says "those who were appointed to salvation believed." We are "elect according to the foreknowledge of God" the bible says....He saves those He has "foreknown". But it might be a chicken/egg kind of thing...we may never really resolve that question this side of heaven. The bible says "if we think we know we do not yet know as we ought"..........very important not to become fatalistic in our thinking.....God answers prayer and intercession and we shouldn't give up hoping for people to be saved. God was going to destroy the Israelites but Moses interceded for them and persuaded the Lord to change His mind! (as it were).

Most Christians have a problem with Gods sovereignty, most are happy to allow God to have a measure of sovereignty but they refuse to accept the fact that He has full sovereignty over every single person and thing in the universe. They don't believe that His in full control over the affairs of Mankind and Satan.
Most believe that God knows all things but they don't believe that He ordained all things to be as they are. We will never fully know God, or His ways as they are infinitely higher than we can get our head around. We will spend eternity with Him and still not know everything about Him.

 

[Christian Soldier]

That may be because you are stuck in a doctrinal issue that is non supported and has no bearing of reality

There is grace

there is easy believism (licentiousness)

and there is works (religion)

if you can’t see three. Then I do not know how to help you.

Your second one is in so much deep error that it can not even looked at with any semblance of reality.

We are dead. Because of sin. Sin MUST be removed (the penalty of) before we can be made alive!!

You have one group saying God makes a dead person alive while still under the penalty of sin. Thats non negotiablely false.

lol. Your two views are mixing truth with lies my friend. You’re trying to keep your belief system applicable. By denying what it really says

I don’t add condition

No. it is the work of God I believe.



Nope Because again it is the work of God I believe. Stop trying to make this an arminian calvin debate, it’s not. I am neither arminian Nor am I calvin, I reject both truths as non truths.

I WAS SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH

Not Grace plus faith

You’re twisting the word of God. Paul did not say grace plus faith, he said grace through faith.

You need to open up my friend.

It's easy to dismiss what others believe, while offering nothing to refute their beliefs. I have offered scriptures to support the theology I believe is biblically correct. All you have offered is your private opinion with no substance, anyone can be an armchair critic.

As I mentioned earlier, you seem to be entrenched in your private mysterious theology so I won't challenge it.

 

[Christian Soldier]

And yet, Jesus said, Come to me, all you who are weary, and I for one think that He meant that.

Much love!

The only problem with that is, the dead are not weary, so they won't come

 

[Christian Soldier]

That's because no one can seem to understand the truth. People avoid the real issues and make silly creeds and belief statements that skate around the basic issues. Arminius was championing Jesus' humanity. And Calvin was championing Jesus' divinity. Jesus has BOTH. Unless one can reconcile the two, there will be thousands of interpretations...but still only one truth.


Holiness perspective. Jesus's divinity.


Righteousness perspective, Jesus' humanity.

There is only one gospel. And the two different levels of life in the gospel that Christ brings into ONE in Himself....are meant to be experienced by disciples...not argued over in theory.

I agree, "no one can understand the truth", because the truth is the most mysterious person who ever lived. Jesus said "I am the truth", so we know Jesus is the Almighty Creator God. We also know that nobody can get into the mind of God, so He will remain mysterious forever. Most people think that "truth" is a thing, they fail to realize that truth is God Himself.

I don't know what you mean by "people avoid the real issues". There is only one issue which should concern everyone, Jesus said there are only two types of people in the world, the children of God and the children of the Devil. The only issue everyone has to face is, who's child are they, all of the other issues pale into insignificance.

I don't agree with your view regarding Arminius championing Jesus' humanity and Calvin championing Jesus' divinity. If I was to boil it down, I would say Arminius preached a works based gospel and Calvin preached a grace based gospel.
Arminius believed we would be saved according to our works and Calvin preached that we are saved according to Gods predestined election, and nothing to do with our choice or works.

It's not possible to avoid arguments in the Church and family. Jesus promised this would happen. He said I didn't come to bring peace, He also said that many false prophets would come after His departure. What we see happening, is exactly what He promised. We actually have 45,000 Denominations, the figure I quoted was from my memory of around 4 years ago. So we see another 5,000 have been created and we can expect the number to grow exponentially in the years to come.
So arguments can't be avoided when the Church is pulling in 45,000 different directions.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's easy to dismiss what others believe, while offering nothing to refute their beliefs.

I offered quite a bit of evidence, Now read this to yourself and take your own advice.

I have offered scriptures to support the theology

No, actually you did not.

I believe is biblically correct.

Well thats good. I disagree, and think you preach a dangerous doctrine, that removes the love of God.

All you have offered is your private opinion with no substance, anyone can be an armchair critic.

Thats all you have done, in fact this whole post so far is just opinion. Yawn

As I mentioned earlier, you seem to be entrenched in your private mysterious theology so I won't challenge it.

You are most Definately entrenched in yours.. But thats ok, You can;t challenge what I beleive, maybe you know this, this is why you will not try?

You have not proven there are three gospels. Even though I supported them with scripture

You called me an arminian (meaning like most calvinists, your argument is against another person, not me, and your too closed minded to even try to see what I realy believe, you assume you know. And since you are like God. Your right even when your wrong)

anyway, When your ready to actually discuss the love of God. Let me know.