The social gospel?

[Lizbeth]

I’m so glad you shared this because first of all I can relate. It also stood out to me because now I have a better perspective on how you must feel when men surround you and start bopping you in the head telling you that you are somehow lesser to them in what is known of God. No wonder you come out swinging. You may say …no no sister it doesn’t matter to me. I’m telling you I can relate. I’ll share something with you. There has been a few times when I stated crying and yelling at my husband that in some ways …I think I read the word to prove to him if I’m good enough for God, maybe I’ll impress my husband. Like finally …among men I’ll have some value! Some worth! Surely if I’m one of God’s children yea? I’ve been in conversations were it’s going back and forth and I want to say something in real life …something important to me about God’s word but the men are all bouncing their ideas back and forth so loudly I can’t get a single word in. I seriously sometimes will raise my hand…or say “can I say something” and it gets talked over in the heated discussion until finally a lot of times I get up and walk out off …most of the time thinking and pouting. It hurts. Maybe that is all my own soul wounds. But I just want you to know I’m not condemning you. I see you near the last pages of the thread posting and the conversation is moving on around you like I’ve experienced before. It’s like being elbowed out. Or rooted out. I so get why you come out swinging religiously to say “God loves me guys!” And He does. I do think sometimes I use God to prove my value. But I also know like I think you keep expressing that God loves not based off of how smart or wordy or even if your the most accepted speaker in the room.

Sister I can't keep up with this thread, but happened to see this. We can die out to our need to be valued by others. If the Lord God Almighty, King of heaven and earth, values us and has chosen us in Him, of what value is being valued by men? Valued or not valued by men is all dung waiting to perish and this life is so short anyway. Our relationship is mainly with our heavenly Husband and relationship to others is only in relation to that, flows from that. And in the economy of God the last shall often be first, so that is something too. ;) He gave the honour of being the first to know and the first to announce the resurrection of Jesus to women who had the unenviable job of anointing a three day old dead corpse. Yep, we're the ones who usually clean the toilets too, lol. You be encouraged in the Lord, and Rita too, and me too and anyone who needs to be. He knows the way that we take. God bless.

 

[Episkopos]

ok, so what then is the "much" that was given to us, that a corresponding much is required? How can we render much if we haven't been given much? What does it mean to have Christ in us? What does it mean that our new man has been created in His image? Is there any flaw or lack or shortcoming in Christ?

No flaw or sin in Christ. That's the point of it you are missing. You are looking at what Jesus can do for you...and rather than submit to God's righteousness...you claim to have it already. The flaw in your position is that it becomes all about you. You are still wanting to be justified for your beliefs. In an outer man church people high-five each other for their being different than the world....they see themselves as saved and justified, whereas anyone outside in already condemned. That hubris is precisely because they have not gone to the cross to understand what grace is about.

Even so............we know that not everyone is given the same measure of grace/faith in the beginning according to the parable of the talents, and principles of spiritual gifts (some greater, some lesser – even though still many who are last will be first, etc.)

Well, we don't know that. Do people receive one talent at a time and go back to the throne of grace for more once the talent is transformed into character? Or is it more like Calvinism where one talent isn't enough to convince a servant of God that he also needs to be faithful in little?

Regardless, burying the talent happens when we look inward rather than God-ward. The outer man wants desperately to be justified. As long as the servant seeks to save his/her life intact....then the outer man will cover the inner man....and no Christ-covering is possible.

Regarding the early church, bible says that GREAT grace was upon them all.

The full measure of grace...yes. Not just an initial grace. People were seeing the results of an intimacy with God. Whereas now...it's in secret.

Has the church seen GREAT grace today?

Only in secret. I have seen 2 revivals in my time. I came to the Lord in one...without meeting the believers until a few years afterwards. And the other was in our home...and lasted for 3 years.

Only at divers times and in divers places it seems. There are things to consider with these things, and implications.

Most people run to seeming revivals...like tourists go to see attractions like Disneyland. But unless you know what LED to those revivals...well, as I said...tourists.

What does it mean that the promises are "yes and amen"? Doesn't God call those things which be not as though they are?

Again you are going astray in your thinking. We are in a race. God doesn't fix the race. We run it for real. There is no way you can know how you will end up...as either a vessel of honour or of dishonour. Paul says he feared the Lord about this...lest he, after preaching to many, would be himself cut off. (! Cor. 9:27). Paul feared God...but you don't. Is the problem with Paul or you? Are you better than Paul..is your inner preciousness so important to God that He doesn't allow you to run in case you stumble? Just how important are you...to yourself?

God is self-less. The cross empowers us to be the same. Go to the cross.

A person who claims things as real that are not yet real ...is a hypocrite. The fear of God is wiser.

It's because Abraham believed God's promises even while his body was as good as dead that righteousness was credited to him.

But Abraham never claimed to be righteous...that was God's assessment of Him. Abraham's own faith pleased God. Abraham walked on the level of a man without holiness. OT style. But false religion makes him to be as righteous as God...or that he claimed to be righteous as modern religionists do...based on no understanding of righteousness.

Isn’t faith the substance of things hoped for and evidence of things not yet seen? (until they are seen) And blessed are you who have not seen, yet believe.

Of course. BUT....faith SEES.

God forbid that anyone should seek to undermine and shipwreck the FAITH of God’s children! Are there any warnings in scripture about that?

But you have to discern the difference between hubris and faith. By promoting hubris you destroy faith. By destroying hubris you promote faith. Hint: that's why people see themselves in me...condemning me thereby condemning themselves.

I tend to divide people because I speak the truth. The truth divides people, and even a person within themselves. So, some will say that I'm a self-righteous hypocrite (guess who thinks that: I'm the mirror) while others realize I'm speaking from a prophetic depth of understanding. There seems to be little to no indifference.

The difference is whether it is of genuine faith or not.....the "naming/claiming" crowd are mostly not being in faith when they "claim".....they are not in spirit.....and not being led by Him either because His will is a factor....we are to pray according to His will.....and Jesus only did what He saw the Father doing.

You have to realize the hiddeness of God. People are tested whether they will have faith or not. Faith means you leave your own interest. Faith is not about us...it's how we see God. Those who rail against me do so because their idea of faith is about them being saved or not...which is false. The outer man overthinks his own self-interest, and gets caught in God's net.

And there is a difference between running the race so as to win it as opposed to a nominal token effort or running lawlessly. Yes there are warnings.....it is possible to be disqualified.

It's how NOT to be disqualified. I don't think you are seeing the fearsome outcome of the race for MANY.

We sure do need to be honest and accountable for where or how we still fall short of the mark...that is the only way to make progress in the race, and part of running it so as to win. It's a cross country race with obstacles and hurdles, not a 100 yard dash.

Exactly. With patience we are to run the race. You see some things correctly...as you say I do....but you are building on the wrong foundation and with the wrong materials.

The foundation is Christ...not Christ in you. The Christ in you is the result of building properly. But you are skipping the buying eye-salve and gold and eternal materials part.

...so we need endurance and patience/perseverance and to overcome things along the way...as the bible does speak of all that.

It does.

How would you know where I look? That is another false assumption and accusation.

No. God is hidden....you are not. So that's a false assumption on your part. I have spiritual discernment.

God is everywhere, he is both in us and "outside" of us at the same time. I pray to God ABOVE, not to myself. Ew, what a horrible thought that you are accusing.....shouldn't you wash your mouth out with soap? People need to be more mindful of how they just "like" your posts without thinking.

You belittle those who agree you need correction? Get that soap and wash out that ego sis. I'm not looking for approval from people...but you expect it and hate it when I do? Look to your own motives. Besides, you should be happy to receive correction. The point is...is it true? Go to God and ask Him to show you the deeper walk.

Think it's obvious that most of us are not "perfect" yet.

Or have experienced the perfection of Christ in holiness. Until then the person can't be deemed "spiritual". The knowledge of the holy is understanding. From that place one can judge what others are doing even as they cannot be judged. The reason is that an empowered inner man knows the outer man. But the outer man has NEVER encountered an empowered (and enlightened) inner man.

Agree we must be faithful to inherit. And even Paul speaking to the "perfect" said they must be of the same mind as he and not consider that they had yet attained, for the simple reason that the race isn't over til it's over. Take heed who thinks he stands lest he fall.

Amen. Now, you're talking! See, you have some things right. :)

What does that have to do with this conversation? I sure do not agree with it, God forbid....it's new age. I see you are poking fun at my use of the word "kumbya"....I take it you don't agree with how I use it then. Are you of the interfaith "let's just all get along and take the offence out of the cross" persuasion?

You know I'm not. I get the humour though.

Peace.

 

[Lizbeth]

You belittle those who agree you need correction? Get that soap and wash out that ego sis. You should be happy to receive correction. The point is...is it true?

Why would I need correction for praying and looking to God ABOVE Epi? It's wrong of you to go around making unseemly false assumptions and accusations just because of disagreeing with you on certain things, and I just corrected you didn't I? I despise new age Christianity and have often fought with it. The very FIRST thing Jesus warned about asked for the sign of the end is that many will come along saying "I am Christ". So you need to take it all back. But will you? Are you capable of acknowledging a wrong?

Could it be that I and others have a point? Just maybe? But are you honest enough to even consider the possibility? Will your pride allow it?

 

[Episkopos]

That self righteous, holier than thou gospel is not the gospel of Christ,

Amen, that's why I expose the darkness of it with the light of the truth.

which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes.

Amen again...the power of God to walk as Jesus walked without sin. In Him is no sin.

(Romans 1:16) Rather than promoting Christ, certain folks instead prefer to exploit the gospel and Christ in order to promote themselves.

Exactly....claiming to be justified and saved by choosing the nice sounding verses for themselves while ignoring the verses that can actually help them...like them being poor, naked, wretched, and blind.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Sister I can't keep up with this thread, but happened to see this. We can die out to our need to be valued by others. If the Lord God Almighty, King of heaven and earth, values us and has chosen us in Him, of what value is being valued by men? Valued or not valued by men is all dung waiting to perish and this life is so short anyway. Our relationship is mainly with our heavenly Husband and relationship to others is only in relation to that, flows from that. And in the economy of God the last shall often be first, so that is something too. ;) He gave the honour of being the first to know and the first to announce the resurrection of Jesus to women who had the unenviable job of anointing a three day old dead corpse. Yep, we're the ones who usually clean the toilets too, lol. You be encouraged in the Lord, and Rita too, and me too and anyone who needs to be. He knows the way that we take. God bless.

I get what you are saying. But still…I don’t know why or if it’s from God the desire to be loved or accepted within the body. I think yea. I wonder if Paul felt it too. When he intreated them to not harden their hearts but to open their hearts door. Can you tell when the door shuts, slams shut on you so you won’t enter into that hardened heart? 2 Timothy 2:3 You therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

Maybe that’s why Paul rejoiced when God opened a door. there is a longing to enter. In some ways I think God places that desire to enter unto hearts, calling to people to open, knocking. As He said “I stand outside knocking.” Paul knocked on hearts, they are telling Paul to prove Christ speaks in Paul. See, hear…Paul carried the Spirit of Christ and Christ knocked and way too many times besieged, cried even for others to open their hearts for the Spirit to come in. Is it wrong too be long-suffering, to be cared for or accepted or valued or to go unto others?

There is an angst as we see the religious leaders…did they really want to enter any hearts except to keep others out?

but Paul …I read often how much He longed to receive word …their acceptance encouragement. Their welcome refreshing. Sorry…just thinking out loud. To me it would be lying to say everyone has gotten over caring what others think or no longer caring to be acceptable. For some reason there is a strong longing in us to belong somewhere and to be accepted. Even in a crowd of men …they too all want to be accepted. Why do they talk so fast and don’t even hear anyone sitting on the edge? Because they want desperately to impress one another. They may say “not at all.” But they too want to prove something. They too long to belong. My husband and I are the same. I know he has the same weakness and longings I have of at the end of the day..his needing to be loved. We can say whatever we want but (Imo) if epi does do what others say in patting himself on his back it’s to be loved and accepted. And then the others come needing the same dang thing. Everyone going around and around in circles for a place to belong and at each other over doctrines. There isn’t a single one of us that isn’t displaying wanting to be accepted or loved. you included Lizabeth. It’s in our very nature to need love. I’m not talking about the religious leaders kind of love …I mean the desiring “a body” “a permanent structure” “not of this world” …you don’t desire going solo.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I get what you are saying. But still…I don’t know why or if it’s from God the desire to be loved or accepted within the body. I think yea. I wonder if Paul felt it too. When he intreated them to not harden their hearts but to open their hearts door. Can you tell when the door shuts, slams shut on you so you won’t enter into that hardened heart? 2 Timothy 2:3 You therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

Maybe that’s why Paul rejoiced when God opened a door. there is a longing to enter. In some ways I think God places that desire to enter unto hearts, calling to people to open, knocking. As He said “I stand outside knocking.” Paul knocked on hearts, they are telling Paul to prove Christ speaks in Paul. See, hear…Paul carried the Spirit of Christ and Christ knocked and way too many times besieged, cried even for others to open their hearts for the Spirit to come in. Is it wrong too be long-suffering, to be cared for or accepted or valued or to go unto others?

There is an angst as we see the religious leaders…did they really want to enter any hearts except to keep others out?

but Paul …I read often how much He longed to receive word …their acceptance encouragement. Their welcome refreshing. Sorry…just thinking out loud. To me it would be lying to say everyone has gotten over caring what others think or no longer caring to be acceptable. For some reason there is a strong longing in us to belong somewhere and to be accepted. Even in a crowd of men …they too all want to be accepted. Why do they talk so fast and don’t even hear anyone sitting on the edge? Because they want desperately to impress one another. They may say “not at all.” But they too want to prove something. They too long to belong. My husband and I are the same. I know he has the same weakness and longings I have of at the end of the day..his needing to be loved. We can say whatever we want but (Imo) if epi does do what others say in patting himself on his back it’s to be loved and accepted. And then the others come needing the same dang thing. Everyone going around and around in circles for a place to belong and at each other over doctrines. There isn’t a single one of us that isn’t displaying wanting to be accepted or loved. you included Lizabeth. It’s in our very nature to need love. I’m not talking about the religious leaders kind of love …I mean the desiring “a body” “a permanent structure” “not of this world” …you don’t desire going solo.

Just thinking… about Peter. Oh man how he wanted to be loved and accepted. We are all like the disciples. Same story. Different setting. Every one on this thread sitting around a camp fire and Jesus walks up …we all start shouting and asking him to settle the dispute once and for all …tell us which one of us is the greatest? ….epi raises his hand saying “it’s me of course. Tell them!” Eternally grateful elbows Marks and they snicker, commenting “watch this. I can’t wait to see this guy get the fire brought down on him.”

Been there done that before…

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Ok I’m done. I’ll quit. Going to buy groceries. Have you seen how expensive everything is getting! Good grief! I hate going to the grocery store. Carefully choosing meals so I don’t buy anything useless.

 

[Ritajanice]

Just thinking… about Peter. Oh man how he wanted to be loved and accepted

I don’t need to be loved and accepted by any man or woman, not even by my family...I’m loved and accepted by God ,I know that in my heart/ spirit....of course there was a time when I needed to be loved and accepted by others .

Gods Love is the only Love I need to sustain me...because it’s pure and true Love....

Nothing or no one can separate us from the Love Of God...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I’m so glad you shared this because first of all I can relate. It also stood out to me because now I have a better perspective on how you must feel when men surround you and start bopping you in the head telling you that you are somehow lesser to them in what is known of God. No wonder you come out swinging. You may say …no no sister it doesn’t matter to me. I’m telling you I can relate. I’ll share something with you. There has been a few times when I stated crying and yelling at my husband that in some ways …I think I read the word to prove to him if I’m good enough for God, maybe I’ll impress my husband. Like finally …among men I’ll have some value! Some worth! Surely if I’m one of God’s children yea? I’ve been in conversations were it’s going back and forth and I want to say something in real life …something important to me about God’s word but the men are all bouncing their ideas back and forth so loudly I can’t get a single word in. I seriously sometimes will raise my hand…or say “can I say something” and it gets talked over in the heated discussion until finally a lot of times I get up and walk out off …most of the time thinking and pouting. It hurts. Maybe that is all my own soul wounds. But I just want you to know I’m not condemning you. I see you near the last pages of the thread posting and the conversation is moving on around you like I’ve experienced before. It’s like being elbowed out. Or rooted out. I so get why you come out swinging religiously to say “God loves me guys!” And He does. I do think sometimes I use God to prove my value. But I also know like I think you keep expressing that God loves not based off of how smart or wordy or even if your the most accepted speaker in the room.

remember this

In Christ, there is neither Jew nor gentile (race does not matter) Male nor female (gender does not matter) Slave nor free (our status in life does not matter) we are all one in Christ.

Racism, Sexism and social status is not found in the kingdom of God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are not understanding righteousness.

So we do not understand what perfection looks like. (Gods righteousness)

Or our right standing with God looks like (justification)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The reason the Born again Believer is "found blameless" is because they are "made righteous" "IN Christ".

See, when a person becomes A CHRISTian, they have been given "The Gift of Righteousness", by God.

Welcome to : SALVATiON

Its a "GIFT"..

This Gift is not a process, its to have become a "New Creation" as "ONE with God"... having become .. ."THE.... Righteousness of God in Christ".

This is the : "Son-Daughter" of God.....(Born....again).

amen

a person can only be found blameless if they are innocent (which only one man is innocent, and he died on a cross) or the person has paid their debt, or someone else paid their debt for them (remission of sin redemption or justification by redemption)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That self righteous, holier than thou gospel is not the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes. (Romans 1:16) Rather than promoting Christ, certain folks instead prefer to exploit the gospel and Christ in order to promote themselves.

Yet the point to Christ, and accuse us of pointing to self

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sister I can't keep up with this thread, but happened to see this. We can die out to our need to be valued by others. If the Lord God Almighty, King of heaven and earth, values us and has chosen us in Him, of what value is being valued by men? Valued or not valued by men is all dung waiting to perish and this life is so short anyway. Our relationship is mainly with our heavenly Husband and relationship to others is only in relation to that, flows from that. And in the economy of God the last shall often be first, so that is something too. ;) He gave the honour of being the first to know and the first to announce the resurrection of Jesus to women who had the unenviable job of anointing a three day old dead corpse. Yep, we're the ones who usually clean the toilets too, lol. You be encouraged in the Lord, and Rita too, and me too and anyone who needs to be. He knows the way that we take. God bless.

Amen

and who better, Men (and women) will let us down (even our spouses) because men are not perfect..

But God. what other do I need. it is the reason we can love others. knowing our needs are met 100% in Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I don’t need to be loved and accepted by any man or woman, not even by my family...I’m loved and accepted by God ,I know that in my heart/ spirit....of course there was a time when I needed to be loved and accepted by others .

Gods Love is the only Love I need to sustain me...because it’s pure and true Love....

Nothing or no one can separate us from the Love Of God...

I hear you. But I don’t think (this is only my opinion) that God wants me to be one with folded arms over my chest in a gesture of closed off, not needing a single person in this world. I’ve been that closed off person. I still catch myself doing it. But …only my opinion…that to me is a misconception that God forms antisocial, withdrawn saying “I don’t need no one”. I just don’t think that is true. Otherwise how can a body function together where every part supplies for itself. In love for one another …if there is no need at all —but those parts that need we supply the more—from its many members. Even saying the parts can not say to the other parts… “I have no need of you.” That is just my input. I get you see it differently. But I can’t deny this longing for what Paul speaks of below…of like-minded, who will naturally care for your state.

Philippians 2:19-21 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state. [20] For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state. [21] For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why would I need correction for praying and looking to God ABOVE Epi? It's wrong of you to go around making unseemly false assumptions and accusations just because of disagreeing with you on certain things, and I just corrected you didn't I? I despise new age Christianity and have often fought with it. The very FIRST thing Jesus warned about asked for the sign of the end is that many will come along saying "I am Christ". So you need to take it all back. But will you? Are you capable of acknowledging a wrong?

Could it be that I and others have a point? Just maybe? But are you honest enough to even consider the possibility? Will your pride allow it?

The irony.

The one who belittles everyone accusing you of belittling him.

Poor guy

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen, that's why I expose the darkness of it with the light of the truth.



Amen again...the power of God to walk as Jesus walked without sin. In Him is no sin.

No.

The power of salvation

Salvation is being rescued. not how to walk.

Exactly....claiming to be justified and saved by choosing the nice sounding verses for themselves while ignoring the verses that can actually help them...like them being poor, naked, wretched, and blind.

Sorry my friend, You can not help us,. You still leave us condemned.. Not rescued.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Just thinking… about Peter. Oh man how he wanted to be loved and accepted. We are all like the disciples. Same story. Different setting. Every one on this thread sitting around a camp fire and Jesus walks up …we all start shouting and asking him to settle the dispute once and for all …tell us which one of us is the greatest? ….epi raises his hand saying “it’s me of course. Tell them!” Eternally grateful elbows Marks and they snicker, commenting “watch this. I can’t wait to see this guy get the fire brought down on him.”

Been there done that before…

Myself also.. I think it is human nature to want to be loved, By our parents our spouses, our peers. and our co workers. and it hurts when we are not.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ok I’m done. I’ll quit. Going to buy groceries. Have you seen how expensive everything is getting! Good grief! I hate going to the grocery store. Carefully choosing meals so I don’t buy anything useless.

What a great president we have.. (not)

 

[Ritajanice]

I hear you. But I don’t think (this is only my opinion) that God wants me to be one with folded arms over my chest in a gesture of closed off, not needing a single person in this world

I only need God’s Love..that is what I said and from that you drew conclusions that I’m closed off.

. I’ve been that closed off person. I still catch myself doing it. But …only my opinion…that to me is a misconception that God forms antisocial

Antisocial..what on earth are you talking about...yourself obviously...please don’t speak for me.

, withdrawn saying “I don’t need no one”. I just don’t think that is true. Otherwise how can a body function together where every part supplies for itself. In love for one another …if there is no need at all —but those parts that need we supply the more—from its many members. Even saying the parts can not say to the other parts… “I have no need of you.” That is just my input. I get you see it differently. But I can’t deny this longing for what Paul speaks of below…of like-minded, who will naturally care for your state.

Philippians 2:19-21 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state. [20] For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state. [21] For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I’m not closed off, I Love talking to people, every time I go out God brings someone across my path..I met a boxer on Monday , I loved hearing all about his competitions he has entered...when I take my dog to the vet, I always strike up a conversation with someone in the waiting room, same when I catch a bus......God is interested in people...

I don’t need anything back from anybody...when I help someone, I don’t expect anything back in return...

Whatever made you think I was closed off to people...I Love my family, I show Gods Love to my family...because I don’t expect anything back from them, how on earth can you draw conclusions that I’m closed off?

Good grief..a lot of misunderstanding when posted in text.

Imo, if you need love from another then that’s an insecurity within yourself......I need God’s Love and Gods Love only....I love fellowship...but, I don’t need anyone’s love ....why would I need that. When I’m Loved by God in my heart/ spirit.....only his love is the security that I need, I get that 24/7 ..do you know that God loves you in your heart/ spirit?

 

[marks]

I like what John wrote

I write these thing to you so you can KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and you can CONTINUE TO BELIEVE

Our ability or power to believe is our knowledge of hope. That we have eternal life.

there is no hope if we are tryign to earn eternal life, or it may be lost. Our focus must continue to be self ward, not Godward. Because we always have to worry, are we doing enough to make it? And redirect our actions.

instead of focusing on God. And when we fall. Get back up. Wipe the dust off. And move forward..

The real deal is that we know Him now, walk with Him now.

Much love!