No Condemnation For Those In Christ, But... Sinning Believers Are Condemned Ro 14:23?

[GracePeace]

That's right. If a man claims to be a Christian, a follower of Christ, and he does not come to terms with the depth and profundity of his sin, then his claim is suspect. But if a man is able and willing to admit the truth about himself, as Paul did, that he is an evil sinner at the very core of his being, that man is walking according to the Spirit.

So, you do affirm OSAS.

Yes, in that context, being "dead" or "alive" refers to his status before God. When he was a Pharisee, walking according to the works of the Law, he thought he was "alive" -- that is, "in God's favor." But, he admits, he found that he could not gain God's favor through the law because the law says, "do not covet." In other words, not only does the Law command that I not sleep with my neighbor's wife, the Law commands that I not WANT to sleep with my neighbor's wife. As a Pharisee, Paul was able to avoid adultery, but he was not able to avoid lust, which is a fundamental aspect of his being. Not only did God demand that Paul act righteously, he wanted Paul to BE a righteous person on the inside. He found that he wasn't that person. Thus, regarding whether or not he had God's favor and approval, he "died" during a moment of self-realization. Even so, Paul describes the process of walking according to the Spirit because enlightenment is one of the Spirit's job, and those who are walking by the Spirit are learning the hard truth about themselves and have the inner courage to admit it.

There are so many errors here, but, so as not to get to far off on a tangent, I will simply point out, that, no, I'm going to remain consistent with the preceding chapter, and simply say that sin kills, leads to death--and he asks who will deliver him from the body of (sin and) death for that reason. It has nothing to do with a "status" he "thought" he had before God, but his actual spiritual state wrought by sin.

Paul is not talking about sin in that context. Let me give you an example of "mortifying the deeds of the flesh" the way Paul means it.

Notice how Paul defines "flesh" in the following passage.

Philippians 3:3-6 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. ​

Obviously Paul didn't place confidence in his moral depravity, carnality, sinful nature or anything of the sort. He placed confidence in the circumcision of his flesh, his nationality, his tribal affiliation, his ethnicity, and his blamelessness before the Law. This is what Paul means by "the flesh" and so "walking according to the flesh" is walking as if physical circumcision, nationality, tribe, ethnicity and blamelessness mattered to God. In the following passage, Paul describes the way in which he mortified the deeds of the body.

Philippians 3:7-11 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.​

Paul once put confidence in his "flesh" i.e. his lineage, nationality, ethnicity, and devote religious devotion. But since then he considers it all rubbish so that he might gain Christ. That is how Paul, mortified the deeds of his flesh.

No, not even close : "walking after the flesh" and "deeds of the flesh' refer to sin, as he says, "the deeds of the flesh are manifest: adultery, etc".

Colossians 3
5Put to death therefore what is earthly in you [Greek: therefore your members that are on the earth]:b sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6On account of these the wrath of God is coming.c 7In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. 8But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.

You're just wrong. You're mixed up.
You're welcome.

 

[quietthinker]

those who want to earn their salvation. because they think they are special and so good;.

I doubt anyone will admit to that. Earning Salvation is far more subtle than the obviousness of the statement.
A question would be, what does it look like in real terms.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Paul warns, in Romans 8:12,13 that the Christian who lives after the flesh will die, but that if, by the spirit, instead, they mortify the deeds of the flesh, they will live--and Romans 6 says if you offer your members to sin it leads to death.

To your mind, this is mere coincidence?

No. It isn't a coincidence. But I am attempting to make sense of verse 3, where Paul talks about the Law.

For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin​

Some people argue that Paul is talking about the weakness of the flesh, but a careful examination will reveal that Paul is talking about the weakness of the Law. What exactly is it that the LAW could not do?

To answer that, we remember that the Jews sought God's favor through the Jewish praxis. Peter, Paul, and the others had to admit that a man can't find justification through the Law, which is why they sought justification through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Was it their sinful nature that was the problem? No. The Law made allowances for sinners in the sacrificial system.

The issue was the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, whom Jesus referred to as "whitewashed tombs." Jesus and the apostles were focused on the contrast between our internal and external selves. Jesus cautioned the Pharisees that pretending to be righteous is not the same as truly being righteous. The "weakness" of the flesh, in this instance, is the belief that grace can be merited through pretense.

In Romans 8, the discussion contrasts and compares those who seek God's favor through human effort with those who attain God's favor through his sanctifying spirit. Walking according to the flesh is seeking God's favor on the basis of nationality, ethnicity, physical circumcision, and virtue signaling.

Walking by the Spirit is listening to the Spirit, agreeing with the Spirit, being honest about oneself, displaying the fruits of the Spirit, trusting in God, loving the brethren, seeking first the kingdom of God, fearing God, loving God, and forgiving others.

 

[CadyandZoe]

So, in your mind, all of that sinning described in Romans 7 is happening in Christ?

Yes, but remember, the one who wrote chapter 7 also wrote chapter 6. Paul's talk concerns a man who has given himself over as a servant of righteousness. He is not a practicing "sinner" at all. At the same time, the same man readily admits that his sin is so deep that he has no control over it in the least. He refers to himself as "a wretched man." Why is he a wretched man?

He is at war with himself.

Romans 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

As a man who devotes his life to serving righteousness, as he said in chapter 6, he has found a different law in the members of his body, waging war against the law of his mind. Outwardly, he voluntarily and gladly serves righteousness. But inwardly, he finds coveting of every kind. Thus we see another New Testament theme: the difference between what we do and who we are.

There are "Christian" Pharisees today. They act like Christians, but they don't realize that acting like a Christian doesn't make someone a Christian. A church filled with pretend Christians who think of themselves as better than other people can't tolerate an honest person who admits himself to be a sinner at the core of his being.

 

[GracePeace]

No. It isn't a coincidence. But I am attempting to make sense of verse 3, where Paul talks about the Law.

For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin​

Some people argue that Paul is talking about the weakness of the flesh, but a careful examination will reveal that Paul is talking about the weakness of the Law. What exactly is it that the LAW could not do?

To answer that, we remember that the Jews sought God's favor through the Jewish praxis. Peter, Paul, and the others had to admit that a man can't find justification through the Law, which is why they sought justification through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Was it their sinful nature that was the problem? No. The Law made allowances for sinners in the sacrificial system.

The issue was the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, whom Jesus referred to as "whitewashed tombs." Jesus and the apostles were focused on the contrast between our internal and external selves. Jesus cautioned the Pharisees that pretending to be righteous is not the same as truly being righteous. The "weakness" of the flesh, in this instance, is the belief that grace can be merited through pretense.

In Romans 8, the discussion contrasts and compares those who seek God's favor through human effort with those who attain God's favor through his sanctifying spirit. Walking according to the flesh is seeking God's favor on the basis of nationality, ethnicity, physical circumcision, and virtue signaling.

Walking by the Spirit is listening to the Spirit, agreeing with the Spirit, being honest about oneself, displaying the fruits of the Spirit, trusting in God, loving the brethren, seeking first the kingdom of God, fearing God, loving God, and forgiving others.

The topic of v12,13 is not "what Christ did", it's your responsibility to walk not after the flesh, but, instead, to mortify the deeds of the flesh, so, yes, it's talking about sins, and sins lead to death, as it says.

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, but remember, the one who wrote chapter 7 also wrote chapter 6. Paul's talk concerns a man who has given himself over as a servant of righteousness. He is not a practicing "sinner" at all. At the same time, the same man readily admits that his sin is so deep that he has no control over it in the least. He refers to himself as "a wretched man." Why is he a wretched man?

He is at war with himself.

Romans 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

As a man who devotes his life to serving righteousness, as he said in chapter 6, he has found a different law in the members of his body, waging war against the law of his mind. Outwardly, he voluntarily and gladly serves righteousness. But inwardly, he finds coveting of every kind. Thus we see another New Testament theme: the difference between what we do and who we are.

There are "Christian" Pharisees today. They act like Christians, but they don't realize that acting like a Christian doesn't make someone a Christian. A church filled with pretend Christians who think of themselves as better than other people can't tolerate an honest person who admits himself to be a sinner at the core of his being.

No, there's no sin in Christ.

 

[CadyandZoe]

@CadyandZoe
When Paul describes the one doing what he does not want to do in Romans 7, that is nothing other than "slavery".

Yes, that's his point. He is describing a time of self-discovery and in moments of honesty, he admits to himself that he covets all the time. He doesn't want to covet, but he does. Then he rhetorically cries out "who will free me from this body of death?

Paul says "all things are lawful but I will not be mastered by anything".
Being forced to do what you do not want to do.

Mastery involves skill and practice. From that perspective, Paul has complete mastery over himself -- EXCEPT at the core of his being. He knows that coveting is wrong, but coveting comes from deep within -- a place that none of us can touch. Paul locates desire in his members, which is an aspect of his invisible, untouchable inwardness. In his mind he knows and loves the Law. And he is a man who has devoted himself to serving righteousness. But inwardly, even knowing that coveting is wrong, he finds that he covets in every way possible. He means to say that coveting is outside of his control. He can do nothing about it except mourn.

Blessed are those who mourn, Jesus says.

But it's not that you don't want to do it at all, it's that you do want to do it in the flesh, but your mind and spirit do not want to do it, so, when you do it--and you admit that you sin--you hate that you did it. You had a yes and a no. You walked after the flesh, and not after the spirit.

That is sin--slavery, being "forced" to work against your own will.
So, this is nothing other than what Paul is warning against in Romans 6, and in 8:12,13.
Such things end in death.

But you see, they don't end in death for those who are in Christ and have the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No,
i. Romans was written mostly to the Jewish Christians in Rome (a. Ro 2:17 "you call yourself a Jew", b. "Abraham our forefather according to the flesh" Ro 4:1, "Brothers (for I speak to those who know the Law)," (Ro 7:1))--the Gentile Christians didn't possess (Ro 2:14) or know (Ro 7:1) the Scriptures, and would not have been able to formulate the objections Paul was preemptively responding to, and, to this day, the Gentiles, handling material that didn't even address them, butcher Paul's meanings,
ii. What Paul says is easily misunderstood, irrespectively (says Peter).

1. I don't want to get in to OSAS on this thread.
2. You accept OSAS, because you merely say the "believers" who fall away weren't really "true believers". Is this wrong?

I said I didn't accept OSAS because the question wasn't framed correctly. The doctrine assumes that a person is saved immediately after confession based on a faulty exegesis of Romans 10:9-10. I affirm the teaching of the Apostles who say that, by the power of God, those that have been given the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ will suffer all the trials of faith to arrive to see Jesus in the coming age.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No, there's no sin in Christ.

Romans 8:10
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I doubt anyone will admit to that. Earning Salvation is far more subtle than the obviousness of the statement.
A question would be, what does it look like in real terms.

1. They say salvation can be lost
2. They say salvation is based on how good we are or how “not bad“ we are (we do not commit certain sins etc)
3. They claim any work is required to be saved.
4. They preach conditional life, not eternal life.

I think it is easy, If their faith is not in christ and they do not believe eternal life is eternal. Most likely they are teaching legalism.

 

[CadyandZoe]

"mortify the deeds of the flesh"

The deeds of the flesh are not sinful deeds. It isn't sinful to be a descendent of David.

You were the one who said it was about Jews trusting in their pedigree.

That's right. That is what Paul means by "walking according to the flesh." Remember the conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus. Jesus tells Nicodemus that he needs to be born again. Nico mentions returning to his mother's womb. Right? Follow me? Jesus purposely turns his attention to the work of God. It isn't sufficient to be born from "the water" only, one must also be born "of the spirit." If a Jewish person born of a Jewish mother and father is a Jew "according to the flesh" just as Jesus was a son of David according to the flesh. Those who walk according to the flesh are those who are counting on their Jewish heritage in order to attain God's favor.

Paul is saying that those who are counting on their Jewish heritage, and the Jewish praxis in order to attain God's favor will die. But those who are counting on God's spirit, will live.

The terms "according to the flesh" and "walking after the flesh" just don't address the same issues.

Sure they do. :)

I reject your claims about what Paul is saying.

Okay.

Paul is mocking their pseudo spiritual authority based not on actual righteousness but on mere knowledge of righteousness.

Paul is attempting to bring all under sin, as he says. Regarding Jewish teachers, who think themselves to be guides to the blind, he reminds them of their history. The irony is that those who claim to name the name "Jew" are likely not actually Jewish in the truest sense.

Already debunked this.

Oh, really? "God shows no partiality--he will justify a doer of the law even when they're a Gentile who doesn't have the Law" is not addressing their boasting in their Jewish pedigree, in their possessing the Law, in their being circumcised? Obviously, it is.

When I claim that Paul didn't mention humility or looking down on anyone, to correct me I would appreciate a reference from the passage. :)

Sure do.

That's boasting in the flesh.

That's boasting in Jewish flesh. It isn't boasting in being a sinner.

Because God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith (Ro 1:17), the rule is "each man must be fully convinced in his own mind" (Ro 14:5), thus "what ever does not proceed from faith is sin" (Ro 14:23).

Romans 14:5 isn't a rule. Paul is simply stating a principle of individual conviction.

 

[Taken]

Since there is "no condemnation" for those in Christ (Ro 8:1), why is the sinning Christian "condemned" (Ro 14:23)?

Those “IN” Christ “IS” an establish-ED relationship of One man and Christ the Lord God….DONE DEAL.

(They are ALREADY (past tense), ACCOUNTED (in Gods books and records), According to the Lord Gods WORKS…
THAT individual….MADE WHOLE…)

Sin ….Forgiven, Covered, Forgotten
Body …Dead, Cleansed, Sanctified (set apart
Soul …Restored (Saved)
Spirit …Quickened (born again of Gods SEED

Living IN Christ’s risen Body…UNTIL…
1) their mortal body experiences death
And
2) the day their body IS Raised Up to SEE their Lord (as He is … as they have Become).

A BELIEVER…”NOT having Been MADE WHOLE”…’SHALL be Made WHOLE’…
“IF’ …[/I]that Believer “CONTINUES” believing UNTIL the DAY of his MORTAL Bodily Death…[/I]

THEN shall that individual’s physically mortally dead body be Forgiven, cleansed, sanctified; soul saved; spirit quickened….
And risen UP in the First MASS Resurrection, and SEE their Lord God “as He is”.
(These are the same WARNED to “endure” to (their) end. They are not Converted, nor shall be converted UNLESS they continue to believe to the day of their bodily mortal death….THEN and only then “IF” they continue in belief, shall they THEN…after mortal death…BECOME MADE forgiven, soul Saved, spirit Quickened and body raised up Glorified….then their judgement…

Difference?

One is “IN” Christ…(kept IN Belief by Supreme Power);
Can NEVER fall away.

One is “IN” Belief…(kept IN Belief by the weakest of all——>MAN-KIND)
Can Fall Away…before his physical death.



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CadyandZoe]

They "just so happen" to lead to death--just as it says in Romans 6.
Based on my interactions with you, I'm not surprised you're going to try to spin this plain truth as well.

Getting in a car accident can lead to death. But driving a car isn't a sin. :)

Paul's discussion in Romans 8 is about life and death -- who will get a life and who won't? According to Deuteronomy 4:40, life was promised to those who kept the commandments. But as Paul says, attempting to attain to life through the Law is a "law of sin and death." On the other hand, those whom God has sanctified with his spirit are living according to a different "law", the law of spirit and life.

Romans 8: 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. We have been pardoned so that our sin is no longer an issue. Since we are pardoned we can now freely admit that we sin and we can freely approach God with our prayers and concerns without having this sin-thing between us. We are at peace with God now.

 

[quietthinker]

1. They say salvation can be lost
2. They say salvation is based on how good we are or how “not bad“ we are (we do not commit certain sins etc)
3. They claim any work is required to be saved.
4. They preach conditional life, not eternal life.

I think it is easy, If their faith is not in christ and they do not believe eternal life is eternal. Most likely they are teaching legalism.

..and does 'earning salvation' include having the right idea about salvation? ......including pointing out the wrong ideas of others while exonerating oneself?

 

[CadyandZoe]

What’s this then if it’s not sin?

Galatians 5:19-21​

​

King James Version​

​

​

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God

Well, that's a good question.

In Galatians he talks about "works of the flesh" as you point out. But in Romans 8, he talks about deeds of the body. Why do you suppose he changes from "flesh" in Galatians 5 to "body" in Romans 8?

 

[GracePeace]

The deeds of the flesh are not sinful deeds. It isn't sinful to be a descendent of David.

This has already been addressed--identifying someone's ancestral lineage and describing one's manner of living ("walk after the flesh", and contrasting it against "walk after the spirit") are not the same goals, so comparing the phrases is to compare apples and oranges.

That's right. That is what Paul means by "walking according to the flesh." Remember the conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus. Jesus tells Nicodemus that he needs to be born again. Nico mentions returning to his mother's womb. Right? Follow me? Jesus purposely turns his attention to the work of God. It isn't sufficient to be born from "the water" only, one must also be born "of the spirit." If a Jewish person born of a Jewish mother and father is a Jew "according to the flesh" just as Jesus was a son of David according to the flesh. Those who walk according to the flesh are those who are counting on their Jewish heritage in order to attain God's favor.

While it may be true that Jews oughtn't trust in their heritage as a basis for being in right standing with God, it does mean that "walking after the flesh" doesn't refer to "living sinfully".

Paul is saying that those who are counting on their Jewish heritage, and the Jewish praxis in order to attain God's favor will die. But those who are counting on God's spirit, will live.

Colossians 3:5 uses similar language to refer to sins, so, nope. No cigar.

Sure they do. :)

No, actually, "according to the flesh" means "physically descended from", but "walking after the flesh" is a way of describing a lifestyle of indulging in the sinful desires of the flesh, and we know this because its opposite is "mortifying the deeds of the flesh", as also Colossians 3:5 says.

Okay.

Paul is attempting to bring all under sin, as he says. Regarding Jewish teachers, who think themselves to be guides to the blind, he reminds them of their history. The irony is that those who claim to name the name "Jew" are likely not actually Jewish in the truest sense.

The Jewish Christians trusted in their Jewishness, and Paul was helping them trust in grace by destroying that.

When I claim that Paul didn't mention humility or looking down on anyone, to correct me I would appreciate a reference from the passage. :)

Paul's point wasn't about "inner" and "outer" man, his point was correcting the Jewish Christians' trust in their Jewishness, which you already conceded was boasting, which would need humbling.

That's boasting in Jewish flesh. It isn't boasting in being a sinner.

Right, so even granting your flawed premise, "walking after the flesh" does refer to sinning, as I said.

Romans 14:5 isn't a rule. Paul is simply stating a principle of individual conviction.

"Principles of individual action" don't result in sins when they are broken--this one does result in sin and condemnation when it's broken, so it is actually nothing other than "the law of faith".

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, that's his point. He is describing a time of self-discovery and in moments of honesty, he admits to himself that he covets all the time. He doesn't want to covet, but he does. Then he rhetorically cries out "who will free me from this body of death?

You're missing the point: you're admitting that a Christian can be double-minded, can do things with which they disagree, can have a yes and a no--the very thing you tried denying could occur when a Christian ate without full faith in Ro 14:23.

Mastery involves skill and practice. From that perspective, Paul has complete mastery over himself -- EXCEPT at the core of his being. He knows that coveting is wrong, but coveting comes from deep within -- a place that none of us can touch. Paul locates desire in his members, which is an aspect of his invisible, untouchable inwardness. In his mind he knows and loves the Law. And he is a man who has devoted himself to serving righteousness. But inwardly, even knowing that coveting is wrong, he finds that he covets in every way possible. He means to say that coveting is outside of his control. He can do nothing about it except mourn.

Blessed are those who mourn, Jesus says.

I don't know why you thought I was asking for a commentary on Romans 7.
Focus on the issue.

But you see, they don't end in death for those who are in Christ and have the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ.

Not all remain--as I've been proving this whole time.

 

[GracePeace]

Getting in a car accident can lead to death. But driving a car isn't a sin. :)

1. Because some people interpret Paul as referring to "physical death", I will address that: that would serve as proof that no Christian has ever walked according to the spirit, because they've all died. No, obviously, he's talking about sinning and spiritually dying.
2. "Works of the flesh" obviously refers to sin that leads to death. Show me anything else in Romans where something leads to spiritual death. Just as in Colossians 3:5.

Paul's discussion in Romans 8 is about life and death -- who will get a life and who won't? According to Deuteronomy 4:40, life was promised to those who kept the commandments. But as Paul says, attempting to attain to life through the Law is a "law of sin and death." On the other hand, those whom God has sanctified with his spirit are living according to a different "law", the law of spirit and life.

Romans 8: 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. We have been pardoned so that our sin is no longer an issue. Since we are pardoned we can now freely admit that we sin and we can freely approach God with our prayers and concerns without having this sin-thing between us. We are at peace with God now.

Sin leads to death, and that's what is referred to in verses 12,13.

 

[GracePeace]

Those “IN” Christ “IS” an establish-ED relationship of One man and Christ the Lord God….DONE DEAL.

(They are ALREADY (past tense), ACCOUNTED (in Gods books and records), According to the Lord Gods WORKS…
THAT individual….MADE WHOLE…)

Sin ….Forgiven, Covered, Forgotten
Body …Dead, Cleansed, Sanctified (set apart
Soul …Restored (Saved)
Spirit …Quickened (born again of Gods SEED

Living IN Christ’s risen Body…UNTIL…
1) their mortal body experiences death
And
2) the day their body IS Raised Up to SEE their Lord (as He is … as they have Become).

A BELIEVER…”NOT having Been MADE WHOLE”…’SHALL be Made WHOLE’…
“IF’ …[/I]that Believer “CONTINUES” believing UNTIL the DAY of his MORTAL Bodily Death…[/I]

THEN shall that individual’s physically mortally dead body be Forgiven, cleansed, sanctified; soul saved; spirit quickened….
And risen UP in the First MASS Resurrection, and SEE their Lord God “as He is”.
(These are the same WARNED to “endure” to (their) end. They are not Converted, nor shall be converted UNLESS they continue to believe to the day of their bodily mortal death….THEN and only then “IF” they continue in belief, shall they THEN…after mortal death…BECOME MADE forgiven, soul Saved, spirit Quickened and body raised up Glorified….then their judgement…

Difference?

One is “IN” Christ…(kept IN Belief by Supreme Power);
Can NEVER fall away.

One is “IN” Belief…(kept IN Belief by the weakest of all——>MAN-KIND)
Can Fall Away…before his physical death.



Glory to God,
Taken

The OP, with which you are free to interact, debunks this misunderstanding.

 

[GracePeace]

Romans 8:10
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Yeah, and?