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Eternally Grateful

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Here you go again, you see a flaw in my testimony...
See here we go again I did not use the word testimony. I said truth. Another word for truth is doctrine. And as I said, I do not agree with your doctrine, or what you believe

Now you falsely accuse and say I see a flaw in your testimony.

This is why you get in so much trouble. You see things that are not there. then accuse people of doing things they do not do.


my testimony is my testimony and I was gifted Faith by God, i don’t have to work to trust and walk in faith...because from day one I had the gift of Faith to know that Gods Witness His Living Holy Spirit testified to my spirit that I am Gods child, Faith is a manifestation of the Spirit....he testified/ spoke to my spirit as he was indwelling my spirit...
I could care less about your testimony, I am discussing what you believe, not your testimony..
Once again..you do not understand chosen and predestined to become Born Again....we were chosen according to Gods purpose and plan all biblical...now for some reason it upsets you greatly and you can’t accept how some of us were Born Again.
Yes, and what was the will of God? John 6, whoever sees and believes will have eternal life.

Stop saying I do not understand,, It does nt support your case. you want to discuss the word. use the word. not what you think.
Because it doesn’t fit in with how you were Born Again.
Unresponsive, this has absolutely nothing to do with the comment you are talking about in this quote.

also notice how you ignored what I said, and did nto even try to defend your view on this.. Is it because you are unable.. Is it because you know inside I am right. or is it just because you do not want to discuss it..
Once again you aren’t understanding chosen and predestined to become Born Again in your spirit, that is where we understand in our spirit.
Thank you for your view. but that is all it is, your view. and it proves nothing.
You understand perfectly chosen, yet you have just said God forced himself onto me?
No.

YOU SAY THIS..

God does not force people. these are my words

You claim God made you born again, and in effect gave you no choice, not me
Do you believe that God opens a persons heart to become Born Again once he has forgiven them of their sins?
I believe a person has been forgiven their sins, and because of this redemption. they are born again.

And this happens when that person says yes to God and choses to recieve him in faith
My testimony is Biblical...
I could care less. I am discussing your doctrine. which is not in my view according to the bible
 

Eternally Grateful

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Yes you have, it’s on this thread.you asked me to forgive you , because you didn’t believe I was Born Again apparently you saw a flaw.whatever that means.
I said that according to what you believe, I do nto believe you are born again.

Thats different that accusing you of not being born again, I also said I could not judge that!!


You insinuated that I wasn’t Born Again.
Eternally Grateful said:
lol. I am not even sure you are born again. Forgive me,, But there are things missing.
I said I am not even sure.

that is not saying you are not..

lol..
I have not bear false witness against anyone.
I have proven it over and over. do I need to again?


You did not give Gods word on how we are Born Of The Spirit...
Yes I did. I gave jesus words.

Again, I rebuke you. You are lying through your teach willingly. Because I have shared jesus words over and over with you..

You may not agree that is how we are born again, But you can not claim I do not post jesus words. i have!!!
you gave your opinion on what you believe that scripture to be saying.which is not how Jesus told Nicodemus how we are Born Again you left that part of scripture out.

It’s not my doctrine..it’s what’s in the written word ,
No, Its your doctrine, Its what you THINK the written word says.

However, you cut and paste only certain partsof the word. and ignore the rest. Thats why I fill in the gaps for the stuff you leave out
I was Born Again exactly how Gods Witness His Living Holy Spirit Witnessed to my spirit...The Spirit witnesses/ testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children, that is biblical, Jesus also tells Nicodemus exactly how we become Born Of The Spirit.
Yes Jesus did tell him how

WHoever believes in him will NEVER PERISH BUT HAS ETERNAL LIFE

Now tell me again I did not post Jesus words..
My testimony is biblical...just as I’ve explained above for all to see.i have never tried to get you to believe my testimony...I have defended my testimony..because you have done nothing but challenge my testimony that is biblical through out this thread....therefore I will always defend my testimony, as I can’t have you telling me how to become Born Again....I can’t deny Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit, who made my spirit Born Again the way he did...to satisfy you, I’m afraid I would rather die..
I could care less about your testimony.

I am discussing your doctrine.
You have given your testimony on how you believe you became Born Again.
well if I did thats great. But I am discussing my doctrine. and your doctrine not our testimonies. our testimonies are meaningless. when it comes to doctrine
 

Eternally Grateful

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Not getting personal. It is an observation of your indefensible personal views of Scripture and that those are not of Scripture.
this is personal my friend, It is also rude and arrogant.

But I come to expect that from calvinists. they are some angry people thats for sure.. And they can not see their own sin.
 

Scott Downey

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God can make someone of any age born again. Since God does that for adults according to His will, God can do the same for an infant or young child. He can reveal Himself to them and they can believe.

I am of the opinion God does do that. Before the children have done anything good or bad and are aware of right and wrong, if they are going to perish.

God has mercy on whom He will, and He did not impute your sins against you, if you have believed. God could have chosen to not be merciful and impute your sins to your account and then you would not be saved.

The question never seems to have come up among the disciples to ask Christ specifically. Since nothing like that is recorded, it may be they just had a certain assumption about those things.

God chose to not impute David's sins against him.
The Lord struck the child of David and Bathsheba with an illness and the child died.
David said when he dies, he will go to be with the child.

Clearly this is saying that infant went to a good place at death, the same good place David and all the other Old Testament saints went when they died, Abraham's Bosum. That same place was not heaven or hell, it was a type of temporary captivity, but a place of good things, and when Christ arose, He led that captivity captive and took them all into the prescence of God in Heaven.
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13 So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”

And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14 However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die.” 15 Then Nathan departed to his house.

The Death of David’s Son​

And the Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and it became ill. 16 David therefore pleaded with God for the child, and David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground. 17 So the elders of his house arose and went to him, to raise him up from the ground. But he would not, nor did he eat food with them. 18 Then on the seventh day it came to pass that the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead. For they said, “Indeed, while the child was alive, we spoke to him, and he would not heed our voice. How can we tell him that the child is dead? He may do some harm!”

19 When David saw that his servants were whispering, David perceived that the child was dead. Therefore David said to his servants, “Is the child dead?”

And they said, “He is dead.”

20 So David arose from the ground, washed and anointed himself, and changed his clothes; and he went into the house of the Lord and worshiped. Then he went to his own house; and when he requested, they set food before him, and he ate. 21 Then his servants said to him, “What is this that you have done? You fasted and wept for the child while he was alive, but when the child died, you arose and ate food.”

22 And he said, “While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who can tell whether [b]the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ 23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”
 

face2face

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close??

lol..

Did the wage of sin cause Jesus to die and need to be saved? because jesus sinned?
Jesus would have died an old man if his life was extended, not because he sinned but due to him inheriting a nature which is corrupting and condemned.

You know all the verses - now you are trying to make sense of it all for the first time - thats tough!

F2F
 

face2face

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@face2face The wage of sin is death. Thats why we must be born again (literally a second time) because we are dead in trespasses and sins

Yes. he tasted the death we had, and needed saved from
You have this wrong... you should have written this...

"Yes. he tasted the death we (including Christ) had, and needed saved from"

If in the we you included the Lord then you are moving to truth.

He did not need saved

What?

Where do you get this?
The issue is you don't understand death - the cessation of life.

God is a God of the living not the dead - but you say the dead have eternal life already so they are not dead.

If you understood that Jesus Christ was 100% completely dead in the grave then you would begin to understand the importance of the subject.

You don't understand the "sting" of death (physical) because you think people have divine essence in them.

F2F
 

face2face

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I am sorry , This is very odd..

You want to focus on physical death

That is the result of sin, it is not the penalty of sin.. Not sure why you can not see this
It's odd because when I asked you how God condemned sin in the life and body of Christ you are not able to currently answer this.

Romans 8:1-3 does but you are not talking to the text.

F2F
 

BlessedPeace

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Like I said, it's your choice about what tone you want to post in. Personally, I'd love to see a more Scriptural discussion. There are lots of very specific passages, for instance in John 1, that as many as received Him, believing in His Name, to them He gave the right to become children of God.

Here, "receive", and "believing" are active voice verbs, meaning this is something the person does of themself. If it were done for them, it would require a passive voice verb to show that. In that the right to become children of God is to them, this shows believing and received are required of one before they are given the right, or power, to become children of God.

This is a very clear passage, particularly looking to the grammar used. Not that it changes the significance of the English translation, which shows the same thing. Looking at the Greek grammar completely reinforces the English.

And no other passage, if correctly understood, will contradict this.

Any comment on this passage?

Much love!
Polite arrogance. My,my.
 
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face2face

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We are saved from eternal damnation by becoming Born Again just as Gods word says.

You must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God?

It’s because of Jesus death and resurrection that we can become Born Of The Spirit.

Without the Spirit you are none of His just as his word says.

1 Corinthians 12:3New King James Version (NKJV) Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit

Knowledge of scripture does not make your spirit Born Again.
Did you notice Rita during this discussion how you had to refer to a commentary because the verses in Hebrews 2 were unknown to you? This is a common occurrence when people lean on what is familiar/safe.

You should spend less time posting and more reading and studying the Word of yourself.

F2F
 
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BlessedPeace

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Did you notice Rita during this discussion how you had to refer to a commentary because the verses in Hebrews 2 were unknown to you? This is a common occurrence when people lean on what is familiar/safe.

You should spend less time posting and more reading and studying the Word of yourself.

F2F
You want to stop playing armchair psychologist and reword that last sentence that makes no sense?
 
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Ritajanice

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Did you notice Rita during this discussion how you had to refer to a commentary because the verses in Hebrews 2 were unknown to you? This is a common occurrence when people lean on what is familiar/safe.

You should spend less time posting and more reading and studying the Word of yourself.

F2F
Why would I have to study the word?

I’m Born Again, the Holy Spirit leads me through scripture, so tell me I already know that I am Born Of The Spirit, so why would I constantly need to study scripture?

What would happen to me if I had no access to a Bible?

By the way your last sentence makes no sense to my spirit?
 
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BlessedPeace

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Why would I have to study the word?

I’m Born Again, the Holy Spirit leads me through scripture, so tell me I already know that I am Born Of The Spirit, so why would I constantly need to study scripture?

What would happen to me if I had no access to a Bible?
There's at least one we know of who does not actually know The Word.

God.....by the book? :doldrums:

*Hugs
 
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Ritajanice

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I said that according to what you believe, I do nto believe you are born again.

Thats different that accusing you of not being born again, I also said I could not judge that!!
That is the same as telling me I’m not Born Again
I said I am not even sure.

that is not saying you are not..
That’s insinuating I’m not Born Again
lol..

I have proven it over and over. do I need to again?
You gave no scripture that your post said you are Born Again, Jesus already told Nicodemus how we are Born Again....the scripture contradicts how you say you were Born Again, I can only go by Gods word, sorry.
Yes I did. I gave jesus words.

You gave no Born Again scripture.

You gave what “ you” believe to be Born Again scripture.
Again, I rebuke you. You are lying through your teach willingly. Because I have shared jesus words over and over with you..

You may not agree that is how we are born again, But you can not claim I do not post jesus words. i have!!!
You post the written word sometimes and believe it to be saying what it’s not saying, about being Born Again, Jesus has already said that we “ MUST” be Born Again, he doesn’t say we must believe in the Son of man to be “ Born Again “...if you do believe in Jesus then that can only come through The witnessing with your spirit by the power of Gods Spirit....when he supernaturally makes our spirit Born Again...

Only the Spirit can testify with your spirit the truth about Jesus, as Jesus is a spiritual truth, so tell me how can you know that Jesus existed without the Spirit testifying that truth to your spirit?
No, Its your doctrine, Its what you THINK the written word says.

However, you cut and paste only certain partsof the word. and ignore the rest. Thats why I fill in the gaps for the stuff you leave out

Yes Jesus did tell him how

WHoever believes in him will NEVER PERISH BUT HAS ETERNAL LIFE

Now tell me again I did not post Jesus words..

I could care less about your testimony.

I am discussing your doctrine.

well if I did thats great. But I am discussing my doctrine. and your doctrine not our testimonies. our testimonies are meaningless. when it comes to doctrine
None of what you say or post says that your spirit is Born Again, you say your soul will go to heaven.

That is not how we are Born Again.

The word of God says.

You must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.

Born Again.

Born Of The Spirit..

That’s how God says we are Born Again.

You post what “ you believe it means to be Born Again, therefore I rebuke your words..younadd to Gods word, that’s why most of your posts are confusing.imo.

This is how we are Born Of The Spirit...now you explain what Jesus is trying to explain to Nicodemus here..?

John 3
Berean Standard BiblePar ▾
Jesus and Nicodemus
(Genesis 22:1–10; Romans 5:6–11)
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews.2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.”
3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.a
4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?”
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘Youb must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”



He is explaining to Nicodemus , The wind blows where it wishes, You hear its sound , but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going, So it is with everyone “ Born Of The Spirit “

Can you explain in your own words what this means?

That the wind blows where it wishes , you hear it’s sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going , So it is with “ everyone “ Born Of the Spirit?

Jesus explains , So it is “ everyone “ Born Of The Spirit “....so how would they know in their spirit that they have been Born Of The Spirit




9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things?11Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony.12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.c 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.d
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.”f


This part is not explaining how we are Born Of The Spirit....if we don’t believe, then we haven’t been Born Of The Spirit, we must be Born Of The Spirit to believe spiritually in Jesus.

Only our spirit can believe in Jesus and that can only be revealed to our heart/ spirit by Gods Living witness His Living Holy Spirit...he is the one who brings our spirit from death to life, when.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children.

The Spirit bears witness with our spirit who we are in Christ, that is the Living spiritual birth..a supernatural/ spiritual birth that only God can do via His Spirit..

The Bible is a spiritual book therefore can only be understood in our spirit and we need to be Born Of The Spirit to understand it....as we need the Living Spirit to bring it to our understanding, by him witnessing to our spirit Gods written word.

God also says, without the Spirit we are none of his...that’s why we must be Born Of The Spirit.

We are Born from above....reading the word And believing in your own human intellect I’m afraid doesn’t make our spirit Born Again.

That’s the part you need to understand...even though we have a spirit in us...it’s dead and alienated from God it needs to be brought Alive by the supernatural power of Gods Spirit,His Living Holy Spirit..

It needs to be Born Again our spirit repeat not our soul our spirit needs to be Born Again.
There is nowhere in Gods word that says our soul needs to be Born Again..you say you are Born Again, I’ve never seen you say that you are Born Of The Spirit?

Are you Born Of The Spirit?

Is your spirit Born from above?

Do you understand in your spirit that Jesus was really who the Bible says he is?

Or do you only understand that Jesus was who the Bible says he is in your own human understanding?

What does it mean when the written word says.

The Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are Gods children....how would The Spirit do that?

Remember how he told Nicodemus how we are Born Of The Spirit?
 
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BlessedPeace

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I said that according to what you believe, I do nto believe you are born again.

Thats different that accusing you of not being born again, I also said I could not judge that!!
Is English your first language?

I ask because in the above excerpt of your former post, you did judge that.

See,this is how English works.
RitaJ. can only state she is born again by what she believes about what it means to be born again.

You identifying that fact by stating in your judgement of what RitaJ. believes about what it means to be born again leads you to judge she is not born again.

I suggest you stop with the direct personal attacks.
 

Ritajanice

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Is English your first language?

I ask because in the above excerpt of your former post, you did judge that.

See,this is how English works.
RitaJ. can only state she is born again by what she believes about what it means to be born again.

You identifying that fact by stating in your judgement of what RitaJ. believes about what it means to be born again leads you to judge she is not born again.

I suggest you stop with the direct personal attacks.
I am judging him by the scripture he keeps posting..that says absolutely nothing about being Born Of The Spirit, he leaves the first part out on how Jesus explains to Nicodemus how we are Born Of The Spirit, Ive also asked him to explain that first part and explain what Jesus is explaining to Nicodemus.

I think we are allowed to question each other on being Born Of The Spirit...even question if that person is Born Of The Spirit.

I don’t think we are allowed to question them on being a Christian..you can be a Christian and not be Born Again.

You can believe in Jesus in your own human understanding and that’s exactly what it would be.so we should not deter them from their searching of God...I mean looking back I was a Christian as I was brought up as one , I just had no clue on what it meant to be “ Born Of The Spirit “ I mean I wouldn’t be able to understand any of that as a non believer as my spirit was in me, it had no life in Christ it was dead.....it just needed that spiritual life testified to my spirit, it needed bringing from spiritual death to spiritual life as in Born Of The Spirit and thank God it was.........we must understand about Jesus in our spirit to understand being Born Of The Spirit.

So, I think it’s ok to question if someone is Born Again....so his judging of me being Born Again doesn’t phase me, I enjoy the challenge to be honest...it’s like a spiritual challenge.

Gods Spirit has taught me much on what it means to be Born Of The Spirit.....I Love Him teaching my spirit all about his truth....imo.
 
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Ritajanice

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See here we go again I did not use the word testimony. I said truth. Another word for truth is doctrine. And as I said, I do not agree with your doctrine, or what you believe

Now you falsely accuse and say I see a flaw in your testimony.

This is why you get in so much trouble. You see things that are not there. then accuse people of doing things they do not do.



I could care less about your testimony, I am discussing what you believe, not your testimony..

Yes, and what was the will of God? John 6, whoever sees and believes will have eternal life.

Stop saying I do not understand,, It does nt support your case. you want to discuss the word. use the word. not what you think.

Unresponsive, this has absolutely nothing to do with the comment you are talking about in this quote.

also notice how you ignored what I said, and did nto even try to defend your view on this.. Is it because you are unable.. Is it because you know inside I am right. or is it just because you do not want to discuss it..

Thank you for your view. but that is all it is, your view. and it proves nothing.

No.

YOU SAY THIS..

God does not force people. these are my words

You claim God made you born again, and in effect gave you no choice, not me

I believe a person has been forgiven their sins, and because of this redemption. they are born again.

And this happens when that person says yes to God and choses to recieve him in faith

I could care less. I am discussing your doctrine. which is not in my view according to the bible
I have answered your other post and explained everything there.

Unfortunately from what I read here, you are trying to figure out how Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit made my spirit Born Again.

You are trying to figure it out from your own human intellect..that’s why you keep saying that God forced me to become Born Again...you aren’t able to understand in your spirit and that is where we understand Born Of The Spirit ....because our spirit has become Born Of The Spirit...Born Of God’s seed .

I mean if God’s Spirit leads me to keep explaining this to you I will as he may be trying to get you to understand that we understand all about God and his word in our spirit, because we are spiritual children....we aren’t led by our own intellect to understand the Bible we can only be led by the Holy Spirit to understand God’s word as he can only bring it to our understanding in our spirit.
Without the Holy Spirits guidance and teachings of spiritual matters I wouldn’t have a clue what the written word was saying.
I would just be an empty vessel....I need God’s witness His Living Holy Spirit to bring my spirit to spiritually understand God’s written word as God is Spirit.

He doesn’t speak to us as a human...he speaks to his children in Spirit...as He is Spirit..hope this helps as well.


Hope this helps you.....as I am very willing for the Spirit to help you understand spiritual matters...the enemy wants to keep you as far away from understanding God in your spirit ......I pray that God has better plans and brings you to His spiritual truth, In Jesus Name...Amen!

Edit to add..I can minister nothing to you in my own strength...only the Spirit through me can minister Gods truth to your spirit...through me....any questions just ask and I will ask the Spirit to give you the answers if he so chooses through me...this is my opinion/ testimony and belief.
 
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