What makes a doctrine false?

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St. SteVen

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Paul was speaking there of all acknowledging what is actually true, when going before the Lord in the Judgement. At which point, "some" as the scriptures also say rise up to everlasting life, but also "some to everlasting contempt" (meaning an eternal continuance of separation from God based on their own contempt).

Which is not to say that God has not take mercy on "all", but that all have not received it by their own evil. In this way, darkness is not "saved", but rejected and eliminated, by the same measure, by choice.
Consider the definition of "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

/
 

ScottA

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Consider the definition of "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

/

Yes, that is the measure of each person's choice as fully acknowledged and confirmed, and the dividing the light from the darkness for all eternity.
 

St. SteVen

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Yes, that is the measure of each person's choice as fully acknowledged and confirmed, and the dividing the light from the darkness for all eternity.
- Can anyone say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit? (1 Cor. 12:3)
- If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”will you will be saved? (Rom. 10:9)
- Did Jesus Christ die and return to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living? (Rom. 14:9)

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

]
 

amigo de christo

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Paul spoke of the same act as being one act: As life everlasting to those in Christ, and death to those not in Christ...all as the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy, made possible and arranged by Christ, and confirmed by Peter, of God pouring out His spirit upon all flesh. Life or death by the same Spirit.
correct the fullfillment of joels prophecy . Yet many are still looking for this latter rain etc .
It began ON the day of pentecost . The indwelling of the HOLY GHOST , and all who would believe on Christ Jesus .
Yet still there is the actual coming day of the LORD that is nigh to come .
On that day those who are still alive will be caught up with HIM ,
As for the world , woe unto those for they denied the love of the truth whereby they could have been saved .
We can read where later in acts peter also quoates in amos
and speaks of this rebuilding of the Temple . YET he shows us how it pointed to CHRIST and the gospel .
To the heavenly temple not made of men but of GOD . Yet again
many are now hoping in this earthly temple to be built in Jerusalem and they think this is what Amos was speaking of
when in fact peter shows us what amos was indeed prophesying of ............
The more we stay in the scriptures , the more we shall learn and not be as so many
caught up with the precepts of contrary men whereby they have decieved many .
This is why i so often beg and remind folks to just get in the bible again for themselves . Things will get clearer .
 
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amigo de christo

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- Can anyone say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit? (1 Cor. 12:3)
- If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”will you will be saved? (Rom. 10:9)
- Did Jesus Christ die and return to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living? (Rom. 14:9)

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

]
accursed . as in cast out . in other words anyone who is truly speaking by the SPIRIT
would not be following false religoins at all . all other religoins seperate Christ OUT , they do not beleive .
So the muslims and all other religoins ARE INDEED false , do not have the SPIRIT and do not KNOW GOD
and are in deadly and dire grave danger , lest they do COME to CHRIST JESUS , confessing HIM as LORD
as CHRIST . IF ONE TRULY IS born again of GOD
they would be CALLING JESUS CHRIST LORD . not muhammed , not any other religion .
And if they are calling JESUS LORD and yet their jesus supports sin , they again its not JESUS CHRIST they do follow or know.
One would think this would be so simple to grasp and understand , and yet so many no longer even know
this simple truth .
 
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ScottA

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- Can anyone say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit? (1 Cor. 12:3)
- If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”will you will be saved? (Rom. 10:9)
- Did Jesus Christ die and return to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living? (Rom. 14:9)

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

]

Is that an argument for "universal" salvation for all? Because you didn't leave out what is self-evident against it.

The "will be saved" (past perfect tense) promise is only for those who "declare" before crossing the chasm between heaven and earth guarded with flaming swords of fire. Is God not a consuming fire? Yes. Do all in the crossing have the blood of the Lamb over the threshold? No. Thus, as it is written "some" rise unto everlasting life, while others unto everlasting contempt (unsaved).

As for Jesus Christ dying for both the dead and the living: The dead are of the house of Israel and the chosen who died before salvation came, while the living are those who receive new life after, but before dying in the flesh.
 
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ScottA

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correct the fullfillment of joels prophecy . Yet many are still looking for this latter rain etc .
It began ON the day of pentecost . The indwelling of the HOLY GHOST , and all who would believe on Christ Jesus .
Yet still there is the actual coming day of the LORD that is nigh to come .
On that day those who are still alive will be caught up with HIM ,
As for the world , woe unto those for they denied the love of the truth whereby they could have been saved .
We can read where later in acts peter also quoates in amos
and speaks of this rebuilding of the Temple . YET he shows us how it pointed to CHRIST and the gospel .
To the heavenly temple not made of men but of GOD . Yet again
many are now hoping in this earthly temple to be built in Jerusalem and they think this is what Amos was speaking of
when in fact peter shows us what amos was indeed prophesying of ............
The more we stay in the scriptures , the more we shall learn and not be as so many
caught up with the precepts of contrary men whereby they have decieved many .
This is why i so often beg and remind folks to just get in the bible again for themselves . Things will get clearer .

You are speaking in accord with that foretold "lie" of a mass rapture and future second coming event, a doctrine against Jesus coming "soon" and all that 2,000 years ago "must shortly come to pass", and the return of Jesus individually to "each one in his own order" since Pentecost according to: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

The actual truth, is the second coming of Christ, is per person individually, since Pentecost. The "lie" has run its course and is now revealed.
 
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Alter2Ego

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What makes a doctrine false?

Please quote what you would like to respond to. Thanks.

1. You've never heard it before. (knee-jerk defensive response)

2. You have heard of it before, but assume it's false. (haven't looked into it)

3. Doesn't align with your church's doctrine (your church would say it is false)

4. Doesn't align with your personal doctrine (your views differ)

5. YOUR "Bible" says it is false. (other biblical opinions don't matter)

6. It makes you uncomfortable. (therefore it must be wrong)

7. Everyone knows it's false. (except those who believe it)
St. SteVen:

A religious doctrine is false when it is not supported by scripture in God's inspired Word, the Judeo-Christian Bible.

Alter2Ego
 

St. SteVen

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A religious doctrine is false when it is not supported by scripture in God's inspired Word, the Judeo-Christian Bible.
Well, that's the problem. We have conflicting doctrines that are biblically supported by both sides. Just because we prefer one over another doesn't make the one we disagree with unbiblical.

]
 

Pavel Mosko

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What makes a doctrine false?

Please quote what you would like to respond to. Thanks.

1. You've never heard it before. (knee-jerk defensive response)

2. You have heard of it before, but assume it's false. (haven't looked into it)

3. Doesn't align with your church's doctrine (your church would say it is false)

4. Doesn't align with your personal doctrine (your views differ)

5. YOUR "Bible" says it is false. (other biblical opinions don't matter)

6. It makes you uncomfortable. (therefore it must be wrong)

7. Everyone knows it's false. (except those who believe it)

I like this question very much because it has been something I have had to deal with a lot starting out as a Protestant and later on as an Eastern Christian. Infact I was starting to think about giving a general exposition on the topic from the general ancient / Eastern Christian perspective. Strangely enough the Latin Saint, Vincent of Lerins answers this question in his work the Comminatory officially for the Latin West, but he did such a great job that all the Eastern Churches will use his work to explain their position as well. I'm talking not just about the "Eastern Orthodox Churches", but the various "Oriental Orthodox Churches" like the Ethiopian, Coptic, Syriac Church of Antioch, Armenian, and Indian-Syriac Church as well, not only that but the Assyrian Church of the East, as well as the large body of "Eastern Catholics" that came from the previous Churches, besides the Maronite (Syriac) Catholics, Melkites etc.


Lerins in contemplating dogmatic teaching (he kind of analyses it in light of the heresies of past and his present) he boils it down to 3 basic necessary elements.

1) Antiquity. The teaching needs to go back to the earliest days of Christianity. This usually is refers to "Bible passages", but I will also note it can be some kind of ancient "foot note" thing.

2) Universality The teaching should be something that is taught in all the ancient orthodox churches.

3) Consensus The basic position should be held by all the ancient Churches.


This position I believe has a lot of Merit when it comes to not only how ancient Christianity functioned in ancient times (than newer models of things like Sola Scriptura) but I believe it would actually solve a lot of the problems in later Christianity with the Reformation and doctrinal divide, because Popes and various would be Reformers would not be the ones propose necessary doctrines etc. but you would have to really look at the entire history of the doctrine itself and only the strongest ones that existed from ancient times would make the cut. (Other positions would just be respected theological positions of a particular Church, Church Tradition or Movement. They would be important if you were a member of that group, but not something that would be dogmatically enforced.) This has various Churches have treated the Charismatic movement in the past, where it can be both positive and controversial. Catholicism does this sort of thing a lot with its various movements going on inside its greater Communion. The Eastern Orthodox themselves have a concept called Theologoumena that refers to "respected theological opinions". OF course, understanding which one fits this, vs a dogma is often not clear.
 
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St. SteVen

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I like this question very much because it has been something I have had to deal with a lot starting out as a Protestant and later on as an Eastern Christian.
Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response. Interesting to read your POV on the subject.

The reason for this topic was to list seven BAD reasons to judge a doctrine as false.
The parenthetical statements accompanying each choice reveal why.
Interestingly, there were nearly 21 pages of responses, most choosing their personal BAD reason. - LOL

What makes a doctrine false?

Please quote what you would like to respond to. Thanks.

1. You've never heard it before. (knee-jerk defensive response)

2. You have heard of it before, but assume it's false. (haven't looked into it)

3. Doesn't align with your church's doctrine (your church would say it is false)

4. Doesn't align with your personal doctrine (your views differ)

5. YOUR "Bible" says it is false. (other biblical opinions don't matter)

6. It makes you uncomfortable. (therefore it must be wrong)

7. Everyone knows it's false. (except those who believe it)

]
 

Pavel Mosko

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Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response. Interesting to read your POV on the subject.

The reason for this topic was to list seven BAD reasons to judge a doctrine as false.
The parenthetical statements accompanying each choice reveal why.
Interestingly, there were nearly 21 pages of responses, most choosing their personal BAD reason. - LOL

What makes a doctrine false?

Please quote what you would like to respond to. Thanks.

1. You've never heard it before. (knee-jerk defensive response)

2. You have heard of it before, but assume it's false. (haven't looked into it)

3. Doesn't align with your church's doctrine (your church would say it is false)

4. Doesn't align with your personal doctrine (your views differ)

5. YOUR "Bible" says it is false. (other biblical opinions don't matter)

6. It makes you uncomfortable. (therefore it must be wrong)

7. Everyone knows it's false. (except those who believe it)

]
Well since you are interested, I will give you even more of my thoughts from my years of Christian Blogging as an Eastern Christian and a Psych major and Grad student (very handy when it comes to Epistemology, including in Christianity). I do


1) Naive Realism

A lot of your points, boil down to this. Naive Realism is the belief that people see "reality" perfectly clearly (Tabla Rasa) These people do not realize that they "interpret" the Bible and that interpretation is actually affected by their beliefs, culture, past experiences, and various other kinds of assumptions that might not be that correct. So they are like the fish, that doesn't know that it is swimming in water. Anyway, we all "See through the Glass Darkly" as the Bible says.



2A) Before there was a Bible, there was the Apostolic Preaching

I find this point really important dealing with certain Fundamentalists etc. because it is a big ingredient when it comes to dogma etc.

2B) Besides being "Biblical" there is something called "Phronema" (mindset) that also is very important! The basic attitude or mentality applied to something. The New Testament actually uses the word "mind" Nous quite a few times to talk about this sort of thing.





3) Paradosis is also very important. This is rendered "tradition" in English translations. This is seen often as negative by some, or maybe as a nice supplementary thing by conservative magisterial Protestants but it is more than that. Jesus had a lot to say negatively concerning the activities of the Pharisees, but saint Paul used it positively to describe his work on two occasions in the epistles. But more important this concept actually describes the Bible (and Canonization) itself. Paradosis literally refers to the act of passing on something like a heritage to the next generation. And yes it definitely fits the history of the Church and the Bible in terms of it being a curated product etc.



4) Besides all this the Church is Concilliar body when it comes to hearing the Holy Spirit etc. Acts 15 especially drives that point home as far as the demands made of the gentiles for being converted. And this precedent goes back to the early days of the Jews, all the way back to Moses and Aaron and the tabernacle, and the 70 judges that assisted Moses etc.


5) The Term "Binding and Loosening" mentioned in the Gospels and at least one "Great Commision" is a rabbinic term. It actually originally refers to governing halacha, (how the many commandments of the Torah would be implemented practically as everyday practice).
but the concept is very significant. (In the past I have brought these concepts dealing with Sabbatarian groups).


6) The Biblical principle of "In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses" things are established a very common saying not just for the Old Testament but cited by Jesus and saint Paul, and maybe other apostles. (This principle bolsters the previous two making ancient Christian Church practice authoritative).


7) I do invoke Bible passages that speak about honoring people in leadership when talking about certain Church fathers, especially Ignatius of Antioch because I think he more than anybody outside the Bible should be respected for his experience (being mentored by saint John the Divine)m his Martyrdom etc. and I think people dismiss these ancient believers leading Christianity just outside of the New Testament times too easily.
 
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St. SteVen

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1) Naive Realism

A lot of your points, boil down to this. Naive Realism is the belief that people see "reality" perfectly clearly (Tabla Rasa) These people do not realize that they "interpret" the Bible and that interpretation is actually affected by their beliefs, culture, past experiences, and various other kinds of assumptions that might not be that correct. So they are like the fish, that doesn't know that it is swimming in water. Anyway, we all "See through the Glass Darkly" as the Bible says.
This is a great point.

So often the response to one of my topic questions is answered by saying, "Just follow the Bible." As if that is a singular thing. The respondent is typically stupefied when I inform them that not everyone agrees on what the Bible says. They find this difficult to grasp. Probably because of the way they have insulated themselves from views contrary to those held by their little tribe. (or BIG tribe, if they are part of a HUGE "denomination")

]
 

Michiah-Imla

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We have conflicting doctrines that are biblically supported by both sides

False.

Everyone has their “view” imposed on the scriptures.

That’s the problem.

“…in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” (Matthew 15:9, KJV)
 
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Pavel Mosko

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This is a great point.

So often the response to one of my topic questions is answered by saying, "Just follow the Bible." As if that is a singular thing. The respondent is typically stupefied when I inform them that not everyone agrees on what the Bible says. They find this difficult to grasp. Probably because of the way they have insulated themselves from views contrary to those held by their little tribe. (or BIG tribe, if they are part of a HUGE "denomination")

]

You wouldn't believe the difficulty I have had in finding a handy term for that phenomenon, it took years of off and on Google searches before I found that term, like 7 years of occasionally looking for a term to describe that kind of phenomenon.

It does bring up other issues that I think should be common sense, namely

1) Everyone has their own internalized idea of what is scriptural. The best analogy to describe this phenomenon is what happens in places like the US concerning the issue of laws and policies that are considered "Constitutional" vs, those that are not. In the US and other places around the world you have "Constitutional Philosophies" and you get pretty much the same thing in Christianity concerning the Bible going back to ancient times of the Alexandrians dealing with the Antiochians etc.


2) Even going back to the days of ancient Israel you got the notions of "The rules of Hillel" that describe about seven principles that come from applying scripture, where folks could use scripture in different ways almost like a tool set.

 
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Grailhunter

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I like this question very much because it has been something I have had to deal with a lot starting out as a Protestant and later on as an Eastern Christian. Infact I was starting to think about giving a general exposition on the topic from the general ancient / Eastern Christian perspective. Strangely enough the Latin Saint, Vincent of Lerins answers this question in his work the Comminatory officially for the Latin West, but he did such a great job that all the Eastern Churches will use his work to explain their position as well. I'm talking not just about the "Eastern Orthodox Churches", but the various "Oriental Orthodox Churches" like the Ethiopian, Coptic, Syriac Church of Antioch, Armenian, and Indian-Syriac Church as well, not only that but the Assyrian Church of the East, as well as the large body of "Eastern Catholics" that came from the previous Churches, besides the Maronite (Syriac) Catholics, Melkites etc.


Lerins in contemplating dogmatic teaching (he kind of analyses it in light of the heresies of past and his present) he boils it down to 3 basic necessary elements.

1) Antiquity. The teaching needs to go back to the earliest days of Christianity. This usually is refers to "Bible passages", but I will also note it can be some kind of ancient "foot note" thing.

2) Universality The teaching should be something that is taught in all the ancient orthodox churches.

3) Consensus The basic position should be held by all the ancient Churches.


This position I believe has a lot of Merit when it comes to not only how ancient Christianity functioned in ancient times (than newer models of things like Sola Scriptura) but I believe it would actually solve a lot of the problems in later Christianity with the Reformation and doctrinal divide, because Popes and various would be Reformers would not be the ones propose necessary doctrines etc. but you would have to really look at the entire history of the doctrine itself and only the strongest ones that existed from ancient times would make the cut. (Other positions would just be respected theological positions of a particular Church, Church Tradition or Movement. They would be important if you were a member of that group, but not something that would be dogmatically enforced.) This has various Churches have treated the Charismatic movement in the past, where it can be both positive and controversial. Catholicism does this sort of thing a lot with its various movements going on inside its greater Communion. The Eastern Orthodox themselves have a concept called Theologoumena that refers to "respected theological opinions". OF course, understanding which one fits this, vs a dogma is often not clear.

There are red flags that a belief is false.

1. The belief hinges on a word or phrase that is not in the scriptures. This is true 99% of the time and look at that 1% very closely.

2. The belief is contrary to the overall theme and or spirit of the scriptures.

3. The words used to explain the belief are not in the scriptures.
“The secret ingredient!”

4. The belief promotes hate, cruelty, and unfairness to other Christians.

5. The belief just does not make any sense. God did not give us the scriptures so we would not understand. This is a cult favorite….
“Hey Mister, you cannot understand God or the Bible so believe me!”
If that is so….how did he understand?
Sure there are things about God and Heaven that we cannot comprehend but as a whole the scriptures was given to us for comprehension.
The scriptures were given to a very simple and uneducated people in the 1st century.

6. The belief has sins that are not in the scriptures specifically. Again this is true 99% of the time.

7. The belief does not include assembling with other Christians and worshipping the Lord.
 

St. SteVen

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I have witnessed prayers answered as well. But it was nothing i did or can take credit for.

Actually the gifts the Apostles had were sign gifts. They went out when last apostle died.
How do you explain what happened to the man I prayed for? Do you agree with those who attribute healing to Satan?

]