No Condemnation For Those In Christ (Romans 8:1)

[GracePeace]

I did go back and read again your OP post. Gave you a like but then wondered why you threw in once saved always saved as a way of condemnation? That part threw me and made me question the motive for the topic.

Love the above “fully convinced in his own mind” … let every man be persuaded in his own mind. Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive you, but not to doubtful disputations.

Love also where it says he who doubts is condemned already. John 3:18 He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

To me that means condemnation already works the end there death—in him who does not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This one grows weak and perishes and needs THE strength of those claiming to possess all things where although poor (in Christ) making many rich. The man who is condemned already wears a coat of poverty not being rich towards God but he is wasting away in his being separated from God. To me this is what it means by “he is condemn already” in “death already works” …who will divide out their bread with the poor towards God?




^tried to touch on the Op above. I didn’t see any problem with the verses you quoted. As I said…you threw me when the post did a one-eighty around to once saved always saved.

Not sure what you mean about OSAS.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

no condemnation for those in Christ", yet "the Christian who sins is condemned"--and, certainly, the OSAS crowd cannot account for it.

Not sure what you mean about OSAS.

The quote at the beginning of this post. I just meant it was squished in the last line of the OP where I didn’t see it coming.

 

[GracePeace]

No, it does not say this,

Can you read?

romans 8: 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

We see here., Paul is calling out the fact that some of them MAY NOT BE SAVED.. And he tells them, IF (maybe you are, maybe you are not)_ indeed the spirit dwells in you..

10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

He then states a fact. the body is dead because of sin, why? Because we still sin. But the spirit is alive because of righteousness. Who's righteousness? Well it is not ours. Because we are sill sinning as the passage says, so it must be the righteousness of Christ.


11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies [d]through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Once again, a fact. IF you are gods child. The spirit who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you. and gives life to your mortal bodies.

Paul continues

. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba,[e] Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

How much more clear can he be? If we are saved. We are led by Gods spirit. And we are not given this spirit of fear you are trying to spread. But a spirit of adoption. where I can go to God in all my sin and cry out Abba (A term of endearment, in the english, we call him daddy.. Imagine the fact, all children of God can go to him and call him Daddy!!

Paul continues; what is "no condemnation??

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Those who are not condemned WILL (not might) be conformed to his image, they ARE predestine, They ARE called, They ARE justified, And they ARE glorified.

God’s Everlasting Love​

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:

“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So I must ask you my friend. Who are you to charge Gods elect and claim they can be condemned again after they are adopted and secured by God?

In Romans 14, the issue is not "If somene isn't a believer in Jesus's death and resurrection, they're condemned", it's "If a believer doesn't also do what he believes he should, but walks in things he doesn't believe he should (unbelief), he is sinning and is condemned".

 

[GracePeace]

The quote at the beginning of this post. I just meant it was squished in the last line of the OP where I didn’t see it coming.

Because the post deals with the compromising of the believers justification, bc he's condemned, not justified, as James 2 says, bc he doesn't walk in faith.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Because the post deals with the compromising of the believers justification, bc he's condemned, not justified, as James 2 says, bc he doesn't walk in faith.

All I remember is Paul sitting with a brother too afraid to eat. Paul referred to this brother as weak.(as one in need). Before that he explains not all have this knowledge ….I assume in the context of the brother who lacks knowledge and is weak …what that brother lacks in knowledge of Liberty in Christ. Paul goes on to warn that if he(Paul) uses his knowledge of Christ to destroy his brother…he (Paul) sins against Christ becoming an offender against the body of Christ. Odd is …this weak brother without liberty, without knowledge, too afraid to eat …is still said to be “one for whom Christ died for”. Why doesn’t Paul in the Spirit of Christ condemn him who has no knowledge of the Liberty of Christ? Instead he uses (abuses)not that knowledge (Liberty) against the weak, without knowledge?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In Romans 14, the issue is not "If somene isn't a believer in Jesus's death and resurrection, they're condemned", it's "If a believer doesn't also do what he believes he should, but walks in things he doesn't believe he should (unbelief), he is sinning and is condemned".

ah, Back to romans 14 (make up your mind)

Already explained this passage. then condemn themselves. God does not condemn them.

But you think sin can cause us to lose salvation. so you put everyone back under law. good luck with this

 

[GracePeace]

All I remember is Paul sitting with a brother too afraid to eat. Paul referred to this brother as weak.(as one in need). Before that he explains not all have this knowledge ….I assume in the context of the brother who lacks knowledge and is weak …what that brother lacks in knowledge of Liberty in Christ. Paul goes on to warn that if he(Paul) uses his knowledge of Christ to destroy his brother…he (Paul) sins against Christ becoming an offender against the body of Christ. Odd is …this weak brother without liberty, without knowledge, too afraid to eat …is still said to be “one for whom Christ died for”. Why doesn’t Paul in the Spirit of Christ condemn him who has no knowledge of the Liberty of Christ? Instead he uses (abuses)not that knowledge (Liberty) against the weak, without knowledge?

Why rely on your "memory" when it renders you incapable of actually interacting with the thread, but, then, still decide to come on and give a reply, knowing you're not really replying, because you aren't acquainted with the material nor are you willing to bother acquainting yourself with the thread? What, really, are you doing?

Why not read the Scripture (and I've posted it here), and/or quote my text and reply to it?
Why are you acting like you can't answer, but then offering an answer?

 

[GracePeace]

ah, Back to romans 14 (make up your mind)

The OP is about Romans 14.
Why don't you know this?
Don't you acquaint yourself with a matter before answering it?

Proverbs 18
13He who gives an answer before he hears,
It is folly and shame to him.

Do not answer a matter before hearing it.

Already explained this passage. then condemn themselves. God does not condemn them.

You're adulterating Scripture.
You're adding to Scripture, tainting it, to make it say what you want--"doctrines of demons", "this persuasion does not come from Him Who calls you".

But you think sin can cause us to lose salvation. so you put everyone back under law. good luck with this

When I notice that someone is condemned when they sin by not walking in faith, that is not putting anyone under the Law--again, you're proving you don't know what "works" are.

 

[GracePeace]

how did we go from Romans 8 to romans 14.. is it not you that always complains about keeping on topic. Rom 14 has nothign to do with our conversation

Rather, how did you read the OP, decide to make a reply, and not understand that Romans 14 was crucial to the topic?
Or did you not even read the OP? Or did you not retain the information? What happened?

Thank you for proving me right. But lets get it clear. It says he is condemned already, because he has not believed.. That changes everything

You're actually helping me by proving that "they claim to know God but in their works they deny Him" means that when you break faith in your works it is like unbelief in Christ, a denial of the Lord, which is why He says "if anyone confesses Me before men, I will confess them before My Father, but if anyone denies Me before men, I will deny him before My Father".

lol.. We love to read scripture

It says he who has not believed is condemned already.. but you prove you do not believe it

Don't scurry away to your favorite prooftexts.
Be a man. Deal with Romans 14, which says the Christian who sins is condemned.
I know you don't like that truth, but the Word of God will never be extinguished.
Your stubbornness will fade away, but the Word of God will never be moved.
The Christian who sins is CONDEMNED, NOT JUSTIFIED, because he is not abiding in Christ, as I've explained.
Your systematic theology cannot endure truth. It breaks down. It doesn't work.
There's an "extra piece" of Scripture "left over" after you've constructed your theological monstrosity.
You have no use for it. It would present a problem for your system.

But you are trying to use him to prove a point in error.

"Begging the question."

He sinned, and he fell.. Thus he needs saved, he did not need saved before this, He EARNED his walk with God and his status as a child of God.. SInce he fell. no one can make that claim

Right, so eating is a serious matter, not a light matter, which was my point.

He condemns himself. because he continues to feel guilty because he is doing something he is not convinced he is ok in doing what he is doing. Its not rocket science.

If God's rule is "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind", then breaking that rule would be sin.
Don't be shocked, but Paul says breaking that rule, by doing ANYTHING with doubt, is sin.
When God has a rule, and you break it (sin), whose rule did you break and who did you offend?
You broke God's rule, so it was God you offended (sinned against), and it is God Who condemns you.

Don't get me wrong: I understand why you have to twist the words around, add words, remove words.
It's a threat to your system.
That's the point of discussion: to find where we have inconsistencies.
But you're just not being honest.
Your system is being debunked, and you don't like truth more than your system.

It does not mean eternal condemnation..

I've actually denied that it did.

No. I am doing no such thing, You read my words like you do the bible. with your blinders on. you see what you want to see.

You're too sloppy and confused to understand what you're saying. LOL
Let me give you a hint: stop eating sugar. LOL

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The OP is about Romans 14.
Why don't you know this?
Don't you acquaint yourself with a matter before answering it?

Proverbs 18
13He who gives an answer before he hears,
It is folly and shame to him.

Do not answer a matter before hearing it.

lol the op is about no more condemnation Roman’s 8. You can”t even understand your own op.

You're adulterating Scripture.
You're adding to Scripture, tainting it, to make it say what you want--"doctrines of demons", "this persuasion does not come from Him Who calls you".

When I notice that someone is condemned when they sin by not walking in faith, that is not putting anyone under the Law--again, you're proving you don't know what "works" are.

lol. It’s ok keep trusting in your good deeds. I will trust in Christ. Where there really is no
More condemnation

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why rely on your "memory" when it renders you incapable of actually interacting with the thread, but, then, still decide to come on and give a reply, knowing you're not really replying, because you aren't acquainted with the material nor are you willing to bother acquainting yourself with the thread? What, really, are you doing?

Why not read the Scripture (and I've posted it here), and/or quote my text and reply to it?
Why are you acting like you can't answer, but then offering an answer?

Ok. When I said “all I remember” I meant it as keeping my focus on what Paul instructed towards those weak and without knowledge. Like that’s all I remember at the moment…that instruction towards the weak.

That is condemnation to assume I haven’t read it. I’ve read it so many times it’s stuck. It’s one of those passages where what Paul does towards a weak brother stays on my mind. So don’t condemn as if I don’t care enough to be bothered to read it.

What you replied to me was short. I’m assuming you want a reply about James. Which you mentioned but didn’t quote. Look …you may not like the way I respond or where my mind goes. For example …you keep going on and on about walking by Faith. Another one of my favorites is where Paul lays out this walk by Faith and not by Sight to the Corinthians.

2 Corinthians 13:3-10 Since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you. [4] For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you. [5] Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know you not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except you be reprobates? [6] But I trust that you shall know that we are not reprobates. [7] Now I pray to God that you do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that you should do that which is honest, though (appear still unto you as though) we be as reprobates. [8] For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. [9] For we are glad, when we are weak, and you are strong(strengthened) (for His love is made Perfect in weakness) : and this also we wish, even your perfection. [10] Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.

You can go on and on about walking by Faith.
But I don’t know if I have yet today to see any who would, towards their enemies calling them reprobates and as those who fail—then turn around and judge not by sight but by Faith to say “I trust” “you will know”…and this we do “we will be weak, that you be made strong” …even though it does not yet appear unto you… we wish for your perfection.

^i mean Paul laid out the “proof” of Christ speaks in him …. Those are Christ’s words, not Paul’s. Paul walking in the Spirit of Him who become poor so that others could be made rich. “We will be weak, that you be made strong.”

I’m afraid all this talk about proving others aren’t walking in the Faith is going to turn around and bite back. If Christ walks in you … then prove yourself.

 

[GracePeace]

lol the op is about no more condemnation Roman’s 8. You can”t even understand your own op.

lol. It’s ok keep trusting in your good deeds. I will trust in Christ. Where there really is no
More condemnation

You are confused about the difference between the thread's Title and the thread's OP.
If you actually read the OP before trying to respond to it, you'd know that Romans 14 is central to the topic.
Your problem is that you answer matters before you hear them.

Proverbs 18
13He who gives an answer before he hears,
It is folly and shame to him.

 

[GracePeace]

Ok. When I said “all I remember” I meant it as keeping my focus on what Paul instructed towards those weak and without knowledge. Like that’s all I remember at the moment…that instruction towards the weak.

That is condemnation to assume I haven’t read it. I’ve read it so many times it’s stuck. It’s one of those passages where what Paul does towards a weak brother stays on my mind. So don’t condemn as if I don’t care enough to be bothered to read it.

What you replied to me was short. I’m assuming you want a reply about James. Which you mentioned but didn’t quote. Look …you may not like the way I respond or where my mind goes. For example …you keep going on and on about walking by Faith. Another one of my favorites is where Paul lays out this walk by Faith and not by Sight to the Corinthians.

2 Corinthians 13:3-10 Since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you. [4] For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you. [5] Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know you not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except you be reprobates? [6] But I trust that you shall know that we are not reprobates. [7] Now I pray to God that you do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that you should do that which is honest, though (appear still unto you as though) we be as reprobates. [8] For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. [9] For we are glad, when we are weak, and you are strong(strengthened) (for His love is made Perfect in weakness) : and this also we wish, even your perfection. [10] Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.

You can go on and on about walking by Faith.
But I don’t know if I have yet today to see any who would, towards their enemies calling them reprobates and as those who fail—then turn around and judge not by sight but by Faith to say “I trust” “you will know”…and this we do “we will be weak, that you be made strong” …even though it does not yet appear unto you… we wish for your perfection.

^i mean Paul laid out the “proof” of Christ speaks in him …. Those are Christ’s words, not Paul’s. Paul walking in the Spirit of Him who become poor so that others could be made rich. “We will be weak, that you be made strong.”

I’m afraid all this talk about proving others aren’t walking in the Faith is going to turn around and bite back. If Christ walks in you … then prove yourself.

You have used a lot of words to never address the issues raised in the OP.

 

[ShineTheLight]

This is the translation for the King James Version of Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Notice the "walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit" part. Chapter 5 of Galatians talks about how to do that, and how the flesh and spirit wars against each other. Chapter 2 of Colossians also explains what you need to do.

Revelations 2 and 3 tells about what Jesus does to reprove members of the body of Christ. God gives his warnings to backsliders in that and in Jeremiah, Hosea, and Isaiah.

The solution is to be in Christ, yes. But not just that, but also doing and keeping his commandments, as it's been pointed out about in the letters of John, first and second. Then there's also this.

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 Corinthians 3 and 6 says how you need to keep the temple, your body, clean for the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The condemnation was bc of slavery to sin, but they're freed from slavery to Sin in Christ (Ro 8:2) so that IF they walk after the Spirit they fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law (Ro 8:4), and live, but IF they walk after the flesh they will die (Ro 8:12,13).

Those who are in Christ do not walk after the flesh.

Meanwhile, the Christian who sins is "condemned" (Ro 14:23).

Does "condemned" indicate an eternal state or merely disapproval?

Clearly, the Christian who sins is "condemned" bc they're not abiding "in Christ" (Ro 8:1; 1 Jn 2:28), bc abiding in Christ is by keeping His commands (1 Jn 3:23,24). That's why there's no condemnation for those abiding in Christ, but those not abiding are condemned.

This is wrong. Condemnation is removed for those who are "in Christ", not because they remain sinless, but because they are forgiven and walk according to the Spirit.

Nowhere is that idea present in the verse; it says anything that is not from faith is sin, and this includes eating with doubts.

The subject matter of chapter 14 is breaking fellowship with other believers.

No, it doesn't. He goes on to explain that "anything that is not from faith is sin," so the person sinned and was condemned because of eating without faith or eating with doubt.

Don't misunderstand what Paul means by "faith" in this context. He isn't speaking about believing the gospel here; rather, he is speaking about religious conviction. In the first two or three verses, he alerts his readers to his purpose.

Romans 14:1-2

Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.​

From this, we understand that Paul is speaking about a controversy between those who eat meat and those who eat vegetables. Whether someone has decided to become a vegetarian isn't that controversial. The central issue is whether one is sinning and acting unholy after eating meat offered to an idol. In Paul's view, those who eat the meat offered to an idol have a stronger, more informed faith than those who eat only vegetables.

The question at hand is whether the meat should be considered "unholy" and tainted. One person believes the meat is unholy and should not be eaten by Christians, especially those striving to maintain purity. On the other hand, a more informed individual believes that there is nothing inherently wrong with the meat. They argue that idolatry does not change the meat itself and that devout Christians are free to consume it.

Paul exhorts the two parties to find a way to get along. The meat eaters, those who are stronger in faith, should accept the one who is weak in faith "but not to pass judgment on his opinions." In this context, it is tempting for meat eaters to pass judgment against those who will not eat the meat. (In his epistle to the Corinthians, Paul adds that vegetarians will be tempted to hold the meat eaters in contempt.)

With regard to those who pass judgment on those who refuse to eat the meat Paul says, "Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who [breaks fellowship] is condemned if he eats, because "condemning a brother" not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin." Romans 14:23

The text discusses the condemnation of one another, but it emphasizes that God will condemn those who break fellowship with another believer over this controversy. Some people who eat meat might think too highly of themselves because of their correct stance on the issue. They might not accept those who disagree with them and pass judgment on those who don't eat meat. In this case, God condemns the meat eater because their attitude toward a fellow believer is not consistent with our faith.

Bottom line: The meat eater's conviction is valid regarding the temple meat, but incorrect regarding how to treat another believer who disagrees.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Nope.

The "shrinking back" the word would refer to would be the same as mentioned in Hebrews 10:38 and 1 Jn 2:28.

Otherwise, it's figuratively used to refer to "hesitation"--hence basic unanimity of translating it "doubt" across versions. I haven't read a translation that translates it as you would have me read it.

Again, the opposite of this which Paul puts forth is eating with faith, because whatever is not from faith is sin, bc Ro 1:17 says God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith.

I know. This happens all the time. Sometimes translators misunderstand a passage, and other translators follow suit.

The meaning of most words can vary greatly, so it's important to understand the intended meaning from the context. Chapter 14's subject matter is "accepting those who are weak in faith," meaning that "doubt" is probably not Paul's intended meaning here. Instead, he likely means "break fellowship with" or "shrink back from a fellow believer."

"Those who eat meat that has been offered to an idol, according to Paul, are more knowledgeable about the faith in that matter. They are right, while those who choose not to eat the meat are wrong. However, if the meat eater judges or looks down on the person who doesn't eat the meat, then they are the ones who are in the wrong."

 

[GracePeace]

This is the translation for the King James Version of Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Notice the "walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit" part. Chapter 5 of Galatians talks about how to do that, and how the flesh and spirit wars against each other. Chapter 2 of Colossians also explains what you need to do.

Revelations 2 and 3 tells about what Jesus does to reprove members of the body of Christ. God gives his warnings to backsliders in that and in Jeremiah, Hosea, and Isaiah.

The solution is to be in Christ, yes. But not just that, but also doing and keeping his commandments, as it's been pointed out about in the letters of John, first and second. Then there's also this.

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 Corinthians 3 and 6 says how you need to keep the temple, your body, clean for the Holy Spirit of God.

I love how in many different ways it teaches keeping His commands is necessary for abiding in Him.

 

[Episkopos]

I hoped to interact with dissenters, but is there anyone who agrees?

Agreed. Those who are IN Christ personally don't sin. In Him is no sin.

There is a difference between being corporately in Christ (in His mouth but not yet swallowed) and abiding in Him personally.

We remain in Christ conditionally...through obedience to God's will.

 

[GracePeace]

lol the op is about no more condemnation Roman’s 8. You can”t even understand your own op.

You're so confused.
The OP is not an affirmation of the ignorance most conclude from Ro 8:1, but a challenge of that view, BASED ON VERSES LIKE ROMANS 14:23.

Your issue is you cannot humble yourself, and admit you've made an error. It's not more complicated than that.

lol. It’s ok keep trusting in your good deeds. I will trust in Christ. Where there really is no
More condemnation

Walking in faith is God's deeds not my own. That's been explained thoroughly.
In Christ there's no more condemnation, but not all remain, as I've proven, so they get condemned.

 

[GracePeace]

Agreed. Those who are IN Christ personally don't sin. In Him is no sin.

There is a difference between being corporately in Christ (in His mouth but not yet swallowed) and abiding in Him personally.

We remain in Christ conditionally...through obedience to God's will.

Just one thing: "vomit you out" sounds like a reference to Lev 18, where the Promised Land vomits its inhabitants out.