the Great Tribulation

[David in NJ]

So when will Satan be caged in Babylon? During the millennium?

Satan will never be 'caged' in Babylon.
Babylon will be destroyed as per the LORD's Decree given in Revelation ch18


Revelation ch20
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[grafted branch]

Satan will never be 'caged' in Babylon.
Babylon will be destroyed as per the LORD's Decree given in Revelation ch18


Revelation ch20
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

So Revelation 18:2 is not accurate when it says “the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird”? Surely Babylon has become a cage right?

 

[David in NJ]

So Revelation 18:2 is not accurate when it says “the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird”? Surely Babylon has become a cage right?

Babylon on earth, both literal and spiritual, is not the "prison" spoken of in Revelation ch20.

NOTICE this from Rev ch18

"And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues."

Are you currently locked up in a prison called "Babylon"???

 

[grafted branch]

Babylon on earth, both literal and spiritual, is not the "prison" spoken of in Revelation ch20.

NOTICE this from Rev ch18

"And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues."

Are you currently locked up in a prison called "Babylon"???

No, I’m not locked in first century Jerusalem. Actually only the evil spirits and Satan were caged at that time, not people.

Notice that in Revelation 20 Satan is bound from deceiving the nations <1484> ethnos, Gentiles. Do you have a millennium where Satan can still deceive the Jews, since he is not bound from that during that time?

 

[Davidpt]

So when will Satan be caged in Babylon? During the millennium?

Not per Premil will he be, not even during the millennium. And here is one valid reason why.

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.


Premil takes verse 21 to be meaning something that happens in the end of this age prior to the beginning of the millennium. And take note what verse 21 says in regards to Babylon the great---that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

There is zero way to misinterpret, no matter who you are, what is meant by this---and shall be found no more at all. That can mean only one thing and one thing only. It will be as if Babylon the great had never existed.

How then can it still exist during the millennium if per Premil the millennium follows sometime after verse 21 is fulfilled first? And not only that, how do we make sense out of verse 21 if we apply it like Preterists typically do? If they have Babylon the great meaning Jerusalem before it was destroyed in 70 AD, then have verse 21 meaning when it was destroyed in 70 AD, how is one supposed to make any sense out of that, the fact this same Jerusalem is still on the map as we speak? And not this instead---and shall be found no more at all.

 

[grafted branch]

Not per Premil will he be, not even during the millennium. And here is one valid reason why.

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.


Premil takes verse 21 to be meaning something that happens in the end of this age prior to the beginning of the millennium. And take note what verse 21 says in regards to Babylon the great---that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

There is zero way to misinterpret, no matter who you are, what is meant by this---and shall be found no more at all. That can mean only one thing and one thing only. It will be as if Babylon the great had never existed.

How then can it still exist during the millennium if per Premil the millennium follows sometime after verse 21 is fulfilled first? And not only that, how do we make sense out of verse 21 if we apply it like Preterists typically do? If they have Babylon the great meaning Jerusalem before it was destroyed in 70 AD, then have verse 21 meaning when it was destroyed in 70 AD, how is one supposed to make any sense out of that, the fact this same Jerusalem is still on the map as we speak? And not this instead---and shall be found no more at all.

Well Satan is a foul spirit and he was at the Garden of Eden so whenever in time you place Babylon it had to have Satan caged in it. When per your view was Satan caged in Babylon?

 

[David in NJ]

No, I’m not locked in first century Jerusalem. Actually only the evil spirits and Satan were caged at that time, not people.

Notice that in Revelation 20 Satan is bound from deceiving the nations <1484> ethnos, Gentiles. Do you have a millennium where Satan can still deceive the Jews, since he is not bound from that during that time?

Revelation chapter 20 contains the Beginning and the End of the literal 1,000 Year Reign on earth.

1,000 Year Reign Begins in Rev 20:1-6 whereby Satan is locked-up in prison and SEALED.

Rev 20:7 Satan is set loose, again, to deceive the nations.

Rev 20:10 is Satan's FINAL DESTINATION

 

[grafted branch]

Revelation chapter 20 contains the Beginning and the End of the literal 1,000 Year Reign on earth.

1,000 Year Reign Begins in Rev 20:1-6 whereby Satan is locked-up in prison and SEALED.

Rev 20:7 Satan is set loose, again, to deceive the nations.

Rev 20:10 is Satan's FINAL DESTINATION

Where are the Jews during the millennium? And why isn’t Satan bound from deceiving them during that time?

 

[David in NJ]

Where are the Jews during the millennium? And why isn’t Satan bound from deceiving them during that time?

I am heading to the airport.

Will be back on June 16th

If i am able, i will respond next week.

Peace

 

[Keraz]

Where are the Jews during the millennium? And why isn’t Satan bound from deceiving them during that time?

I will reply for David NJ-
The Jews are soon to be punished and only a remnant will survive. Zephaniah 1:1-18, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:1-14, +
That remnant will join their Christian brethren, but they will be so ashamed they won't say anything. Ezekiel 16:63

Satan will be bound in the pit, it is only AFTER the thousand years is over, that Satan will again be able to deceive people, for a short time.

 

[strepho]

Tribulation is off satan in his role as antichrist near future. He arrives in Jerusalem, 5 month period.
There is one son of perdition. No guessing games. Fallen angels will assist him.
Documentation.
Revelation chapter
12.
2 thessalonians chapter 2
Revelation chapter 13
Micah chapter 1

God is using satan to test people. Majority don't have gospel armory on. They are biblically illiterate and spirtualty dead.

Proverbs chapter 20 speaks of the congregation of the dead.

Revelation is 20. During millennium, the spirituality dead will be taught during millennium by priests.

Satan as antichrist comes 6th trump.
Jesus arrives 7th trump.

Rapture is false doctrine and security blanket for weak minded Christians.

 

[Davy]

I'm not an advocate for Replacement Theology of any kind, and do not subscribe to the idea that Gentile People in the West, due to a smidgeon of Hebrew blood, can then be called "the lost tribes of Israel." This blurs the definition of ethnicity. And I don't believe that is what biblical prophecy meant when it spoke of Abraham or Israel becoming a multiplicity of "nations."

No such thing as "Replacement Theology" written of in The Bible. That's a made up fabrication from men's doctrines, particularly orthodox Jews that hate Jesus Christ. So nor do I adhere to 'their' Replacement Theology they created. I keep to God's Word as written on the true identity of God's Israel, of both the 'seed' and Israel of the Spirit, which both make up Christ's Church.

Abraham became spiritual father, and not physical father, of Gentile nations that became Christian. And when it is said that a particular nation or patriarch evolved, physically, into nations, the idea would be more of a splinter among his children than a redefinition of ethnicity.

Spiritual father because Abraham was FIRST to believe The Gospel Faith. Thus Apostle Paul says in Galatians 3 those of Faith like Abraham have become the "children of Abraham".

Gal 3:6-7
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
KJV

Does that above apply to the unbelievers of the 'seed' of Israel? Nope; only for the believers of the 'seed' on Jesus Christ, to include the believing Gentile with them, i.e., Christ's Church.

So really, you need to quit attacking Christ's Church with all your strange doctrines of men that originate from the false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan".

 

[David in NJ]

Tribulation is off satan in his role as antichrist near future. He arrives in Jerusalem, 5 month period.
There is one son of perdition. No guessing games. Fallen angels will assist him.
Documentation.
Revelation chapter
12.
2 thessalonians chapter 2
Revelation chapter 13
Micah chapter 1

God is using satan to test people. Majority don't have gospel armory on. They are biblically illiterate and spirtualty dead.

Proverbs chapter 20 speaks of the congregation of the dead.

Revelation is 20. During millennium, the spirituality dead will be taught during millennium by priests.

Satan as antichrist comes 6th trump.
Jesus arrives 7th trump.

Rapture is false doctrine and security blanket for weak minded Christians.

Well said and DIRECT = Love it

 

[Randy Kluth]

No such thing as "Replacement Theology" written of in The Bible. That's a made up fabrication from men's doctrines, particularly orthodox Jews that hate Jesus Christ. So nor do I adhere to 'their' Replacement Theology they created. I keep to God's Word as written on the true identity of God's Israel, of both the 'seed' and Israel of the Spirit, which both make up Christ's Church.

This is very confusing. Orthodox Jews would certainly *not* advocate for Replacement Theology! Would they disenfranchise themselves by claiming Gentiles are the "true Jews?"

And I agree--Replacement Theology is not in the Bible. That is why I do not support that belief system. The idea that the Church is the "true Israel" is a fabrication of theologians who felt they had to explain why Jews never recovered after they lost their national calling.

Spiritual father because Abraham was FIRST to believe The Gospel Faith. Thus Apostle Paul says in Galatians 3 those of Faith like Abraham have become the "children of Abraham".

Gal 3:6-7
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
KJV

Does that above apply to the unbelievers of the 'seed' of Israel? Nope; only for the believers of the 'seed' on Jesus Christ, to include the believing Gentile with them, i.e., Christ's Church.

I think you're wrong because even when the Hebrews rebelled against God in the OT era, God forgave them and restored them to their land and to their standing with Him. They did not stop being called "Hebrews" or "God's People."

So really, you need to quit attacking Christ's Church with all your strange doctrines of men that originate from the false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan".

I haven't attacked Christ's Church. I have no idea where you get that idea?

 

[David in NJ]

This is very confusing. Orthodox Jews would certainly *not* advocate for Replacement Theology! Would they disenfranchise themselves by claiming Gentiles are the "true Jews?"

And I agree--Replacement Theology is not in the Bible. That is why I do not support that belief system. The idea that the Church is the "true Israel" is a fabrication of theologians who felt they had to explain why Jews never recovered after they lost their national calling.

I think you're wrong because even when the Hebrews rebelled against God in the OT era, God forgave them and restored them to their land and to their standing with Him. They did not stop being called "Hebrews" or "God's People."

I haven't attacked Christ's Church. I have no idea where you get that idea?

Heads UP for you and @Davy

The WORD that became flesh and dwelt among us, replaced unbelieving Jews with a NEW COVENANT which HE Personally accomplished = for the Jew First(His Disciples and more) and also with the Gentiles whom the FATHER calls.

 

[Timtofly]

Is it the last week of the 70 weeks that is shortened? If so then we have prophecy that is inaccurate.

No, it is the last half of the 70th week that is shortened. In fact so shortened, many don't even think that Jesus will be physically king on the earth, like He was the Messiah for 3.5 years. Most deny that Jesus will be physically on earth as King. Jesus never became King of Israel, much less the entire earth in the first century. He was cutoff, removed for the fulness of the Gentiles to come in. After the fulness of the Gentiles is complete, is when Jesus returns as the Prince to come.

 

[Davy]

This is very confusing. Orthodox Jews would certainly *not* advocate for Replacement Theology! Would they disenfranchise themselves by claiming Gentiles are the "true Jews?"

It's only confusing for those who heed men's doctrines more than what is actually written in God's Word.

Yes, the false Jews are the ones who especially hate the idea that the Christian Church under Jesus Christ has been put in care of God's promises unto His Salvation (see Ephesians 2 about the "commonwealth of Israel" idea by Apostle Paul. Also see Christ's parable of Matthew 21:33-45 about the vineyard.)

Those who fail to understand that as written show they don't really believe The New Covenant which Jesus offered.

And I agree--Replacement Theology is not in the Bible. That is why I do not support that belief system. The idea that the Church is the "true Israel" is a fabrication of theologians who felt they had to explain why Jews never recovered after they lost their national calling.

Based on what you've said above, it means you DO support their false Replacement Theory. That theory is about their disagreement that God's Salvation migrated to The New Covenant Church under Jesus Christ. The unbelieving Jews wrongly think God's Old Testament promises belong only to them, which of course is wrong.

I think you're wrong because even when the Hebrews rebelled against God in the OT era, God forgave them and restored them to their land and to their standing with Him. They did not stop being called "Hebrews" or "God's People."

I haven't attacked Christ's Church. I have no idea where you get that idea?

If you do not believe that God's Salvation and promises went to the New Covenant Church under Jesus Christ, then it means to attack Christ's Church.

 

[Davy]

Heads UP for you and @Davy

The WORD that became flesh and dwelt among us, replaced unbelieving Jews with a NEW COVENANT which HE Personally accomplished = for the Jew First(His Disciples and more) and also with the Gentiles whom the FATHER calls.

I need no lesson on what the Jew's false Replacement Theology is about.

It appears you do need to be taught what their theory is about.

Replacement Theology is about how Christ's Church has replaced God's promises of Salvation under Jesus Christ. The Jews still think those promises and blessings apply to the 'seed' of Israel only, which is wrong per The New Covenant Jesus Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

I need no lesson on what the Jew's false Replacement Theology is about.

It appears you do need to be taught what their theory is about.

Replacement Theology is about how Christ's Church has replaced God's promises of Salvation under Jesus Christ. The Jews still think those promises and blessings apply to the 'seed' of Israel only, which is wrong per The New Covenant Jesus Christ.

i do not follow or believe in "Replacement Theology"!!!

i DO BELIEVE every word spoken by God = Matthew 4:4

The LORD replaced unbelieving Jews with a NEW Nation = Matthew 21:42-46

Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you(unbelieving Jews)
and given to a nation(Born-Again Blood Washed NEW Covenant NATION) bearing the fruits of it. And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is very confusing. Orthodox Jews would certainly *not* advocate for Replacement Theology! Would they disenfranchise themselves by claiming Gentiles are the "true Jews?"

And I agree--Replacement Theology is not in the Bible. That is why I do not support that belief system. The idea that the Church is the "true Israel" is a fabrication of theologians who felt they had to explain why Jews never recovered after they lost their national calling.

No, the last thing you said is a lie. It's not a fabrication at all. It's a belief of theologians who see what Paul taught in passages like these:

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 4:25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written: “Be glad, barren woman, you who never bore a child; shout for joy and cry aloud, you who were never in labor; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband.” 28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise.

What these passages indicate is that there are two Israels. The ancient nation of Israel and what many call spiritual Israel or true Israel. Being part of the nation of Israel only requires being a natural descendant of Abraham and the nation of Israel. Being part of spiritual or true Israel (the Israel of God) has nothing to do be anything natural or physical, but rather has to do with being a spiritual child of Abraham and spiritual child of God by way of faith. And it has to do with being, like Isaac, a spiritual child of the promise. And that includes all Jew and Gentile believers together as one in the Israel of God. This is what scripture teaches and is not a fabrication at all.