The Prophetic Timeline: Why Jesuit Futurists/Jesuit Preterists Ignore It

[wooddog]

Daniel chapter 2 is the foundational eschatological template upon which rests the entire Biblical prophetic timeline. It is here God shows us the Four major world empires - Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome - with Rome divided into the Ten Kingdoms which evolve into Europe, the divisions of which are followed by the eventual Second Coming of Jesus.

It is imperative we do not depart from this template, nor go beyond the minute alterations God shows us through subsequent prophetic revelations. For example, Daniel 7 subsequently reveals through the description of the Ten Horns (which are identical to the Ten Toes) that the Ten Toes do not all survive until the Second Coming - three are uprooted by the Little Horn which arises among the Ten Horns. Unfortunately, Jesuit Futurists and Jesuit Preterists in Protestant sheep's clothing expose themselves as the papal sympathizers they are by willful departure from the Biblical prophetic timeline into the realm of bazarre Jesuit eschatological nonsense. Examples:

• prophecy is to be "of no private interpretation" and we must ask the "holy men" of Scripture what the prophetic symbolism means - popular Jesuit nonsense relies on newspaper headlines for interpretation.

• the lopsided two horn divisions of the Ram (MP) are "guideposts" ensuring posterity recognizes it to indeed be the MP empire which eventually merged into the one - they don't establish additional kingdoms/rulers which contradicts the Daniel 2 template.

• the four horn divisions of the He Goat (Greece) are "guideposts" ensuring posterity recognizes it to indeed be the Greek empire which eventually evolved into four smaller kingdoms of the same empire - they don't establish a "fifth empire" or any such nonsense which contradicts the Daniel 2 template.

• the kingdoms all follow each other in quick succession - there are no "gaps" between them, which is paramount to a correct understanding of the timing of the rise of the "Little Horn" in Daniel 7.

• the two legs of the Image (Rome) are "guideposts" ensuring posterity recognizes it to indeed be the Roman Empire which eventually fell - both to the "Ten Toes" barbarians in the West and into total insignificance, eschatologically speaking, in the East. Jesuit Futurist nonsense has some foolishly arguing Rome is still here, therefore, the 6th century papal Antichrist of Protestant Historicism is not valid - but this false dichotomy between "Rome and Rome" ends at the bottom of the Image with the 5 Toes on each foot comprising the Ten Toes of the barbarian tribes which evolved into Europe.

Protestant Historicism is the only eschatological interpretation that remains Biblically consistent with the Biblical prophetic timeline from beginning to end. It requires no "prophetic rubber bands" to stretch prophecy across thousands of years "gaps" on the prophetic timeline. It requires no willful ignorance of historic facts such as what the ECFs claim was taught by Paul and the early church concerning the "restrainer". It requires no inconsistent interpretations of symbolism such as making the 70 Weeks over here symbolic but the 2300 Days over there literal.

It does, however, require three things the Jesuit Futurist and Jesuit Preterist crowds appear to lack: an accurate knowledge of Scripture, a knowledge of unrevised history, and common sense.

Where are we at in the timeline?

 

[Phoneman777]

"Antichrist," in context, refers to how the Apostle John meant it in 1 John. He was referring to the "Little Horn" in Dan 7, where that man poses as an adversary to God's Kingdom and to the Son of Man who comes from heaven. He attempts to subvert the morals of God's Kingdom, and as such, is viewed, by John, as the "Antichrist."

"Horn" always refers to "kingdom" - sometimes abbreviated "king" - which is inconsequential, seeing that a king without a kingdom is not king.

The "Little Horn" refers to the antichrist "kingdom" - the papacy - and is never limited to a mere individual.

Yes, the "Man of Sin" seeks to have his own edifice built in his own honor, a "temple," of sorts, whether literal or not. I think his claim to Deity is a metaphorical posture, "standing in God's Temple in heaven."

The "Man of Sin" refers to a plurality of papal leaders just as "Man of God" refers to a plurality of Christian men who are to be "thoroughly furnished unto all good works".

In the book of Revelation we read of 2 Beasts. We know from Dan 7 that the Beast is the 4th Kingdom. But I'm not sure why a "2nd Beast" is mentioned in the Revelation.

First Beast of Revelation 13 is the papacy - a fact that was once accepted by the entire Protestant world before satanic agencies set into motion the work of erasing this truth and replacing it with Jesuit Preterism or Jesuit Futurism.

If Protestant Reformers were alive to see it, they would absolutely recognize the Second Beast coming up as the First Beast was going down from it's "deadly wound" in 1798. Even Wesley in his commentary wrote in the 1770s that the time of the First (papal) Beast is about over and we are to look for the soon arrival of the Second Beast.

What Christian nation ("two horns like a Lamb") arose around 1798 in a sparsely populated land ("out of the Earth") with no crowns enthroning secular or religious rule ("Republicanism and Protestantism") which quickly grew into what is now the sole remaining superpower on Earth capable of forcing all other nations to bow down in worship an Image to the First Beast?

It is that 2nd Beast that appears to be the "False Prophet," and may be, in my thinking, a bad Pope, who completely abandons traditional Christianity to worship the Beast as god.

Close - the False Prophet is religious and pertains to apostate Protestantism that is no longer protesting. They've all gone home to mother, embracing the idea of the Immortal Soul which the Reformation rejected, embracing Eternal Torment which the Reformation rejected, embracing church hierarchy which the Reformation rejected, embracing depreciation of Scripture which the Reformation held as the highest standard of truth, embracing "tradition" by keeping Sunday instead of Sabbath.

The Reformers in their time were dealing with "current events," ie the present existence of bad popes. It is only "history" from our pov.

Historicism is backed up by centuries of historic evidence, not a few bad 16th century experiences.

If you view "Rome" as an extensive historical imperial tradition that ends with the coming of Christ's Kingdom, then "3 of the kings" may not yet have been defeated by the Antichrist.

The Little Horn arose in 538 after Rome fell in 467 A.D. It uprooted 3 horns - Vandals, Heruli, Ostrogoths - because the papacy claimed they were "arian" when in fact they were "anti-Bishop of Rome".

We get the word "vandalism" because the Vandals were going around smashing statues of Greek and Roman gods the papacy dragged into Christianity, changing their nameplate to Christian names like Paul and Peter.

Paul said that God has *not* permanently rejected Israel. What He has rejected is their use of the Law as a means of national Salvation. And He is presently keeping them under punishment, as a nation, until final judgment separates the sheep from the goats.

Yes, we have to form our own opinions, and follow our best sense of what fits God's word.

He doesn't say that at all. There phrase "until the fullness of the Gentiles is come" is ASSUMED to mean "the end times" - but there is nothing nailing this down.

It can just as easily mean "until the Gospel is spread abroad" - which has been happening since the days of Paul - so that Jews could hear it and believe.

 

[Phoneman777]

Where are we at in the timeline?

Under the toes, just before the Stone comes and strikes the feet.

We're between Revelation 6 verse 13 and verse 14.

In Daniel 7, we're in the time when the Son of Man "High Priest" is standing before the Ancient of Days in the Heavenly Sanctuary Most Holy Place - the time of Judgment (the "Investigative Judgment") with open books - just before He receives His kingdom.

Awesome times.

 

[wooddog]

Under the toes, just before the Stone comes and strikes the feet.

We're between Revelation 6 verse 13 and verse 14.

In Daniel 7, we're in the time when the Son of Man "High Priest" is standing before the Ancient of Days in the Heavenly Sanctuary Most Holy Place - the time of Judgment (the "Investigative Judgment") with open books - just before He receives His kingdom.

Awesome times.

That's scary close. Then you know the four seals and the two Revelation 13 beasts and the image?

 

[Phoneman777]

You're missing the point. Although true, such things are the "Hey, look over here!" come-ons among the outfield weeds. They were the mechanism restraining all truth until the time of the end. That horse doesn't finish the race.

The foretold "finish" is the "time no longer" translation of the scriptures--not the same old same old attempts.

The papacy absolutely restrained the truth from being spread abroad, and would love to have it so today. However, they are getting things back to pre-Reformation era standards by recruiting so many non-catholics having itchy ears.

Zechariah 5's "flying roll" is a prophecy which foretells the Protestant Reformation which exposed for a time the "woman" as the apostate church she is, but after a time she once again found safety in having her evil covered over and her place in Babylon made sure.

 

[Phoneman777]

That's scary close. Then you know the four seals and the two Revelation 13 beasts and the image?

The churches/seals/trumpets all depict the period between when Christ left and His return, respectively religiously/politically/militarily.

Papacy is the First Beast and the U.S. is the Second...because even if we didn't have much Scripture to back that up, it just stands to reason that the most powerful religious organization and the most powerful reigning superpower would be mentioned in end times prophecy.

 

[Douggg]

It stands to reason that anyone who claims to "take the place of Christ" is by default "against" Christ. The papacy has boasted for centuries that it's the God-appointed system on Earth to:

I think that Catholic theology is that the Pope speaks on behalf of Jesus while Jesus Himself is not physically present on the earth.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus was speaking to Christians who "know that we know Him if we keep His commandments" - all Ten including the 4th.

None of this has anything to do with Jews.

Matthew 24:15-21, is directed at the Jews in the end times, when the abomination of desolation will be set up.

In verse...

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

The Jews, as part of their religious beliefs, are limited to how far they can travel on the sabbath. I don't recall exactly, but I think it is around 2 miles.

Differently, Christians have no such restriction in our beliefs.

So the neither on the sabbath day content is addressed to Jews, not Christians.

 

[ScottA]

The papacy absolutely restrained the truth from being spread abroad, and would love to have it so today. However, they are getting things back to pre-Reformation era standards by recruiting so many non-catholics having itchy ears.

Zechariah 5's "flying roll" is a prophecy which foretells the Protestant Reformation which exposed for a time the "woman" as the apostate church she is, but after a time she once again found safety in having her evil covered over and her place in Babylon made sure.

I was referring rather to "He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way" (2 Thessalonians 2:7), spoken of by Paul regarding these times now upon us.

 

[Randy Kluth]

"Horn" always refers to "kingdom" - sometimes abbreviated "king" - which is inconsequential, seeing that a king without a kingdom is not king.

Here, 10 "horns" refers not to 10 kingdoms but to 10 kings...

Dan 7.24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom.

The "little horn," then, would be a king.

The "Little Horn" refers to the antichrist "kingdom" - the papacy - and is never limited to a mere individual.

See above.

The "Man of Sin" refers to a plurality of papal leaders just as "Man of God" refers to a plurality of Christian men who are to be "thoroughly furnished unto all good works".

How does "man of sin" refer to a plurality of leaders?

First Beast of Revelation 13 is the papacy - a fact that was once accepted by the entire Protestant world before satanic agencies set into motion the work of erasing this truth and replacing it with Jesuit Preterism or Jesuit Futurism.

Yes, I get it that in the early days of the Reformation, when the Catholic Church persecuted the Reformers, they viewed the Papacy as the Antichrist. Ultimately, they brokered a truce and perhaps a peace.

If Protestant Reformers were alive to see it, they would absolutely recognize the Second Beast coming up as the First Beast was going down from it's "deadly wound" in 1798. Even Wesley in his commentary wrote in the 1770s that the time of the First (papal) Beast is about over and we are to look for the soon arrival of the Second Beast.

I should think that Wesley and others were just guessing the identity of the 2 Beasts. Perhaps when the time comes we will all recognize them?

What Christian nation ("two horns like a Lamb") arose around 1798 in a sparsely populated land ("out of the Earth") with no crowns enthroning secular or religious rule ("Republicanism and Protestantism") which quickly grew into what is now the sole remaining superpower on Earth capable of forcing all other nations to bow down in worship an Image to the First Beast?

I think you're trying to suggest something? ;)

Close - the False Prophet is religious and pertains to apostate Protestantism that is no longer protesting. They've all gone home to mother, embracing the idea of the Immortal Soul which the Reformation rejected, embracing Eternal Torment which the Reformation rejected, embracing church hierarchy which the Reformation rejected, embracing depreciation of Scripture which the Reformation held as the highest standard of truth, embracing "tradition" by keeping Sunday instead of Sabbath.

I had no idea that the Reformation did not have the idea of the immortal soul? Where do you get this from?

Historicism is backed up by centuries of historic evidence, not a few bad 16th century experiences.

Historicism has come to represent more of a preterist slant, looking back more than into the future, as I see it. It originally may have simply meant the prophecies of the Bible applied to pre-apocalyptic events in history. But ultimately, during the Reformation they came to look back to events in history, rather than forward, as the Futurist model does.

The Little Horn arose in 538 after Rome fell in 467 A.D. It uprooted 3 horns - Vandals, Heruli, Ostrogoths - because the papacy claimed they were "arian" when in fact they were "anti-Bishop of Rome".

We get the word "vandalism" because the Vandals were going around smashing statues of Greek and Roman gods the papacy dragged into Christianity, changing their nameplate to Christian names like Paul and Peter.

I don't personally see the Vandals as the fulfillment of this. However, you're entitled to view things according to your own convictions. I see the 3 horns who fall to the Little Horn as endtime, when a literal Man of Sin assumes power in Europe and defeats 3 literal kings.

He doesn't say that at all. There phrase "until the fullness of the Gentiles is come" is ASSUMED to mean "the end times" - but there is nothing nailing this down.

It doesn't just say "until the fulness of the Gentiles"--it also implies the time when Christ comes with God's Kingdom, which is the end of the age. That is when the fulness of the Gentiles is complete with evangelization designed to prepare men for the coming of God's Kingdom.

 

[wooddog]

The churches/seals/trumpets all depict the period between when Christ left and His return, respectively religiously/politically/militarily.

Papacy is the First Beast and the U.S. is the Second...because even if we didn't have much Scripture to back that up, it just stands to reason that the most powerful religious organization and the most powerful reigning superpower would be mentioned in end times prophecy.

But is the Papacy for Jesus or against Jesus per Mark 9;38-41? What religious organization actually controls the U.S. right now? Does dual citizens qualify. Do you realize how many Muslims have been killed protecting the image since 9/11? Geneva plays a bigger role in world affairs than the papacy. The pope does have a roll to play no doubt, more like a rubber stamp on whomever is the final leader of the U.N.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Tell that to God.

But no, a parable fashioned approach is not an "unwillingness to communicate", or being "not confident", or "to hide" anything--it's baby talk and drawing word pictures for those not understanding. Go figure, even that is not working.

Why do you have a problem with God's own method of communication? Could there even be anything better?

No.

No one can understand you, but we're the problem. Okay then.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I find it amazing when someone opens a thread telling everyone how stupid they are does not himself understand the prophecy he is trying to promote.

 

[Phoneman777]

I think that Catholic theology is that the Pope speaks on behalf of Jesus while Jesus Himself is not physically present on the earth.

“We declare, assert, define and pronounce to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every creature altogether necessary for salvation…I have the authority of the King of Kings. I am all in all, and above all, so that God Himself and I, the Vicar of Christ, have but one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do. What therefore, can you make of me but God?”​

​

Pope Boniface VIII, Papal bull Unam sanctam, 1302 A.D.​

​

"...so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

 

[Phoneman777]

Matthew 24:15-21, is directed at the Jews in the end times, when the abomination of desolation will be set up.

In verse...

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

The Sabbath was made for "m-a-n" not "j-e-w". Did you know Christians everywhere in the world kept the Sabbath day well beyond the 1st century? Check out what Socrates Scholasticus said about where it was kept and particularly where it was not kept.

The Jews, as part of their religious beliefs, are limited to how far they can travel on the sabbath. I don't recall exactly, but I think it is around 2 miles.

Differently, Christians have no such restriction in our beliefs.

So the neither on the sabbath day content is addressed to Jews, not Christians.

I assure you, God commands all, including Christians, to keep the Sabbath, according to Hebrews 4:9 Peshitta (Lamsa)

 

[Phoneman777]

I was referring rather to "He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way" (2 Thessalonians 2:7), spoken of by Paul regarding these times now upon us.

It wasn't regarding the times in which we now live - Paul was talking about the fall of the Roman Empire which would then allow for the rise of the Bishop of Rome, for as long as Caesar was seated on the throne, the popes could not occupy it.

H. Grattan Guinness says concerning the ECF's testimony pointing to Pagan Rome as the Restrainer:

"Here we have a point on which Paul affirms the existence of knowledge in the Christian Church. The early Church knew, he says, what this hindrance was. The early Church tells us what it did know upon the subject, and no one in these days can be in a position to contradict its testimony as to what Paul had, by word of mouth only, told the Thessalonians. It is a point on which ancient tradition alone can have any authority. Modern speculation is positively impertinent on such a subject."​

 

[Phoneman777]

Here, 10 "horns" refers not to 10 kingdoms but to 10 kings...

Dan 7.24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom.

The "little horn," then, would be a king.

I hate repeating myself...but I do it because I want to help you guys see the light of truth. "Kings" and "Kingdoms" are synonymous, prophetically speaking:

Daniel 7:17,23 KJV
[17] These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

[23] Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth..."

Now that you see that "king" and "kingdom" in prophetic passages are synonymous, let's continue...

How does "man of sin" refer to a plurality of leaders?

In the same way that "man of God" refers to a plurality of men.

Yes, I get it that in the early days of the Reformation, when the Catholic Church persecuted the Reformers, they viewed the Papacy as the Antichrist. Ultimately, they brokered a truce and perhaps a peace.

Please brush up on your church history. Persecution of God's people at the hands of the papacy started long before the 16th century Protestant Reformation...like right after it's inception in 538 A.D.

I should think that Wesley and others were just guessing the identity of the 2 Beasts.

They speculated only about the 2nd Beast because they knew it woud arise sometime after 1798 when the 1st Beast papacy - which they knew to be the 1st Beast Antichrist - would recieve a deadly wound.

The reason Jesuit Futurism is believed by so many non-catholics is because if they look at Protestant Historicism at all, it's only to discredit it. Nobody likes admitting they've followed lies.

Perhaps when the time comes we will all recognize them?

We know the papacy is the first beast, so it's just a matter of looking to see what Christian nation arose in a sparsely populated land at the end of the papacy's 1260 year reign - around 1798 - which goes on to speak with the tongue of Satan and has the power to force the entire world to do what it wants.

A blind man can see what nation that is ;)

I had no idea that the Reformation did not have the idea of the immortal soul? Where do you get this from?

"...that the soul is immortal, and all these endless monstrosities in the Roman dunghill of decretals." - Martin Luther

Historicism has come to represent more of a preterist slant, looking back more than into the future, as I see it. It originally may have simply meant the prophecies of the Bible applied to pre-apocalyptic events in history. But ultimately, during the Reformation they came to look back to events in history, rather than forward, as the Futurist model does.

Jesuit Preterism and Protestant Historicism have absolutely nothing in common, except that both deny Jesuit Futurism.

I don't personally see the Vandals as the fulfillment of this. However, you're entitled to view things according to your own convictions. I see the 3 horns who fall to the Little Horn as endtime, when a literal Man of Sin assumes power in Europe and defeats 3 literal kings.

It's not my opinion, it's a fact: The fourth beast (Rome) went down and the Ten Horn barbarian tribes arose. The papacy came up among them and uprooted the Vandals, the Heruli, and the Ostrogoths. It's a matter of history.

The Little Horn went on to do everything Daniel 7 said it would do...yet, we're to look for a future Little Horn? Yes, if we think Jesuit eschatology is trustworthy, even though Jesuits and the papacy at large have yet to grasp the simplest truth of all: salvation by grace through faith alone.

It doesn't just say "until the fulness of the Gentiles"--it also implies the time when Christ comes with God's Kingdom, which is the end of the age. That is when the fulness of the Gentiles is complete with evangelization designed to prepare men for the coming of God's Kingdom.

Sure it does. The question is: what does that mean? To insist it means "until the end of time" is purely subjective reasoning because when it comes to winning souls - even Jew souls - it can just as easily mean "until the Gospel is spread abroad in the land".

 

[Phoneman777]

But is the Papacy for Jesus or against Jesus per Mark 9;38-41?

Everything the papacy does is contrary to the truth. So called "exorcisms" are simply demons cooperating with human satanic agencies to advance the illusion that the catholic church has power. They "cast out Beelzebub by the power of Beelzebub" and though the Pharisees were wrong, the Protestant Reformation is spot on.

What religious organization actually controls the U.S. right now?

The papacy uses Freemasonry and other secret societies to infiltrate Protestantism. Westcott and Hort were members of such societies and hated "the villainous" Textus Receptus. They plotted to deceive Protestantism and fully succeeded, seeing that most people can't stand the KJV and prefer anything based on the Critical Text, which guts the Word of God like a dead fish.

Does dual citizens qualify. Do you realize how many Muslims have been killed protecting the image since 9/11? Geneva plays a bigger role in world affairs than the papacy. The pope does have a roll to play no doubt, more like a rubber stamp on whomever is the final leader of the U.N.

What if I told you the U.N. and everything else is controlled by the papacy? It sounds like you need a crash course in Protestant Historicism, my friend:

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[wooddog]

Everything the papacy does is contrary to the truth. So called "exorcisms" are simply demons cooperating with human satanic agencies to advance the illusion that the catholic church has power. They "cast out Beelzebub by the power of Beelzebub" and though the Pharisees were wrong, the Protestant Reformation is spot on.

The papacy uses Freemasonry and other secret societies to infiltrate Protestantism. Westcott and Hort were members of such societies and hated "the villainous" Textus Receptus. They plotted to deceive Protestantism and fully succeeded, seeing that most people can't stand the KJV and prefer anything based on the Critical Text, which guts the Word of God like a dead fish.

What if I told you the U.N. and everything else is controlled by the papacy? It sounds like you need a crash course in Protestant Historicism, my friend:

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It is about time for a new pope, the current one pandering to the gays is a joke. Where is the iron?

 

[covenantee]

Matthew 24:15-21, is directed at the Jews in the end times, when the abomination of desolation will be set up.

In verse...

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

The Jews, as part of their religious beliefs, are limited to how far they can travel on the sabbath. I don't recall exactly, but I think it is around 2 miles.

Differently, Christians have no such restriction in our beliefs.

So the neither on the sabbath day content is addressed to Jews, not Christians.

A long distance journey in haste on the Sabbath would with certainty have attracted dangerous attention and suspicion from both Jews and Romans.

Hence Jesus' advice and counsel.

To His followers.

Not to endtime Jews.