The Prophetic Timeline: Why Jesuit Futurists/Jesuit Preterists Ignore It

[covenantee]

Matthew 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand : )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Judaean Christians physically heeded Jesus' physical warning and physically fled into the physical mountains prior to 70 AD.

Nothing to do with end times.

 

[Douggg]

Judaean Christians physically heeded Jesus' physical warning and physically fled into the physical mountains prior to 70 AD.

Nothing to do with end times.

In the Luke 21:21 verse regarding 70 AD. But not for the Matthew 24:16 verse, which is end times.

Who does the Gog/Magog group attack in Ezekiel 38-39, what nation ?

 

[covenantee]

In the Luke 21:21 verse regarding 70 AD. But not for the Matthew 24:16 verse, which is end times.

Who does the Gog/Magog group attack in Ezekiel 38-39, what nation ?

Not end times when everything occurred physically before 70 AD.

Nobody was concerned with Gog/Magog.

They were concerned for their lives.

Which God miraculously preserved.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The "office of the papacy" is the antichrist - a system by which popes stand "in the place of Christ" or "in behalf of Christ" or "instead of Christ".

That's what "antichrist" means.

"Antichrist," in context, refers to how the Apostle John meant it in 1 John. He was referring to the "Little Horn" in Dan 7, where that man poses as an adversary to God's Kingdom and to the Son of Man who comes from heaven. He attempts to subvert the morals of God's Kingdom, and as such, is viewed, by John, as the "Antichrist."

Yes, the "Man of Sin" seeks to have his own edifice built in his own honor, a "temple," of sorts, whether literal or not. I think his claim to Deity is a metaphorical posture, "standing in God's Temple in heaven."

In the book of Revelation we read of 2 Beasts. We know from Dan 7 that the Beast is the 4th Kingdom. But I'm not sure why a "2nd Beast" is mentioned in the Revelation.

It is that 2nd Beast that appears to be the "False Prophet," and may be, in my thinking, a bad Pope, who completely abandons traditional Christianity to worship the Beast as god.

The Reformers didn't base their ideas on current events, but on HISTORY - hence, "Protestant Historicism". The Biblical evidence which establishes the papacy as "antichrist" go all the way back.

The Reformers in their time were dealing with "current events," ie the present existence of bad popes. It is only "history" from our pov.

The proof that the Antichrist arose long ago in history is right there in Daniel, which says the "Little Horn" Antichrist will pluck up "3 of the first horns" which came and attacked Rome.

If you view "Rome" as an extensive historical imperial tradition that ends with the coming of Christ's Kingdom, then "3 of the kings" may not yet have been defeated by the Antichrist.

History confirms that the papacy had the Heruli, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths wiped out, accused by the papacy as "arian" or "disbelieving in the divinity of Christ".

God wants Jews to be saved - what He doesn't want is the Church handing over to Israel the titles and prerogatives He's bestowed up her after His permanent rejection of Israel.

Paul said that God has *not* permanently rejected Israel. What He has rejected is their use of the Law as a means of national Salvation. And He is presently keeping them under punishment, as a nation, until final judgment separates the sheep from the goats.

Everyone has to decide for themselves: either the Antichrist is the papacy, or a past or future antichrist which exist to deflect attention from themselves.

Yes, we have to form our own opinions, and follow our best sense of what fits God's word.

 

[Jay Ross]

I meant to say "without a temple in place". I went back and corrected my typo in that post.

But, Douggg, there is no way what you are advocating is correct. It is just so wrong.

 

[Douggg]

But, Douggg, there is no way what you are advocating is correct. It is just so wrong.

Explain why you think that there will not be another temple built, that ultimately the Antichrist will desecrate ?

 

[Douggg]

Judaean Christians physically heeded Jesus' physical warning and physically fled into the physical mountains prior to 70 AD.

Nothing to do with end times.

Luke 21:20-24 was the 70 AD event, and verse 24 is about the Jews being led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem trodden down the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled.

In 1967, the Jews regained control of Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:15-31 is still future. But not the distant future.

 

[covenantee]

Luke 21:20-24 was the 70 AD event, and verse 24 is about the Jews being led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem trodden down the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled.

In 1967, the Jews regained control of Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:15-31 is still future. But not the distant future.

Matthew 24:15,16 and Luke 21:20,21 are the warning that Jesus issued to the Judaeans to flee when the abomination of desolation, the Roman armies, appeared.

They fled, and escaped the destruction of Jerusalem and in Judea.

Their flight occurred prior to 70 AD.

It's all 1900+ year old history.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The 1884 stuff I think is SDA teachings, not Jehovah's Witnesses.

Doesn't mattter. the 1884 and lots of other things are cultic teachings based on guessing and then blaming the Holy Spirit.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, knowing what the scriptures teach is critical to understanding how the end times events will be fulfilled.

But also is knowing what the Jews (Judaism) believe and expect is critical as well.

No, it is not. Not at all.

Most Christians don't know and are unaware and don't care what the Jews (Judaism) believe and expect. The reverse is true concerning the Jews (Judaism). Could you imagine what a Jew (Judaism) would think coming to this forum and reading through all varied and opposing views that are expressed here concerning eschatology ?

I couldn't care less about that. Why should I? You have the wrong focus.

Edit: Just to be clear, I said this from the perspective of gaining any insight about Bible prophecy from their beliefs. Certainly, it's worth knowing what they believe from the perspective of evangelism so that we can explain why their beliefs are wrong and why Jesus is the Messiah and not any future person they are expecting to come.

 

[covenantee]

Most Christians don't know and are unaware and don't care what the Jews (Judaism) believe and expect.

Justifiably so.

Acts 13
27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

Nor is there any "Judaism".

It is pharisaic Babylonic talmudism, the "religion" of antichrist.

 

[ScottA]

"time, times, and half a time" are also "1260 days" or "42 months" or "3 1/2 years" - all symbolic expressions for the same 1,260 years period reign of the papacy, from 538 to 1798.

You're missing the point. Although true, such things are the "Hey, look over here!" come-ons among the outfield weeds. They were the mechanism restraining all truth until the time of the end. That horse doesn't finish the race.

The foretold "finish" is the "time no longer" translation of the scriptures--not the same old same old attempts.

 

[Douggg]

You're missing the point. Although true, such things are the "Hey, look over here!" come-ons among the outfield weeds. They were the mechanism restraining all truth until the time of the end. That horse doesn't finish the race.

The foretold "finish" is the "time no longer" translation of the scriptures--not the same old same old attempts.

Scott, if I might suggest, stop with all the cliche's and communicate in easy to understand sentences.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Scott, if I might suggest, stop with all the cliche's and communicate in easy to understand sentences.

Now, here's something we can agree on. I can never understand what he is intending to say. I don't know if he purposely speaks in riddles, but there's no reason to not just communicate straightforwardly like a vast majority of the rest of us do.

 

[ScottA]

Scott, if I might suggest, stop with all the cliche's and communicate in easy to understand sentences.

That is the biblical method.

If my speaking in parable fashion for easy understanding, and also giving specific references to scripture regarding these current times, bothers you--it is you who has a problem.

However, if you yourself are open to suggestion... Perhaps you will hear according to the biblical method of "correction." Which, yes, I understand how that may come across as offensive. Yet, since, most changes among God's people have been met with that same offended response--you might not want to continue with that attitude.

Has it not occurred to you that the way things have always been, will not serve the next and final intervention from God. As such, you might actually want to listen to what may at first sound crazy.

What is instore, is the grand finale and transition from physical, worldly would-be reality, to the actual spiritual reality of God--from what is now seen, to what has been unseen all of this time. Do you really think you would have even been allowed to possess the right tools in your toolbox, that have been held in restraint for millennia, only to be released near the end? The answer is, no one has...until it is released. And just how do you imagine that to occur? Do you know?

I do.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That is the biblical method.

If my speaking in parable fashion for easy understanding, and also giving specific references to scripture regarding these current times, bothers you--it is you who has a problem.

Good grief. You are not Jesus. There is no reason at all for you to speak in parables. Your unwillingness to communicate more clearly suggests that you are not confident about what you believe. There's no reason to hide it.

 

[Jay Ross]

I meant to say "without a temple in place". I went back and corrected my typo in that post.

That is simply just your imagination as to what is required for Satan to occupy as a holy place.

Explain why you think that there will not be another temple built, that ultimately the Antichrist will desecrate ?

In Daniel 9:24 we are told this according to my understanding: -

"Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins.
{And then Christ will} make reconciliation for iniquity,
bring in everlasting righteousness,
seal up vision and prophecy, and
anoint a scared place {as being} Holy.

Where is the place that Christ anointed to be most Holy, Douggg? It is not a rebuilt Temple as you are advocating as there is no longer any need for a temple for Israel to daily sacrifice two lambs.

Are we not the temple indwelt by both Christ and the Lord God?

The great falling away of the Saints is what will desecrate God's building blocks of His temple.

Goodbye

 

[ScottA]

Good grief. You are not Jesus. There is no reason at all for you to speak in parables. Your unwillingness to communicate more clearly suggests that you are not confident about what you believe. There's no reason to hide it.

Tell that to God.

But no, a parable fashioned approach is not an "unwillingness to communicate", or being "not confident", or "to hide" anything--it's baby talk and drawing word pictures for those not understanding. Go figure, even that is not working.

Why do you have a problem with God's own method of communication? Could there even be anything better?

No.

 

[Phoneman777]

"Anti" - "instead of' and/or "against"

Christ - King of Israel messiah

Mark 1532 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

It stands to reason that anyone who claims to "take the place of Christ" is by default "against" Christ. The papacy has boasted for centuries that it's the God-appointed system on Earth to:

• represent Christ
• possess all the names, titles, and authority of Christ
• exercise all aspects of the authority of Christ

Non-catholic Christians reject Protestant Historicism for the same reason atheists reject theology - it disturbs the peace they've obtained by trusting a lie. For Christians, an early tribulation escape - for atheists, a judgment day that never comes.

 

[Phoneman777]

What ?

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The 490 years began in 457 B.C. and ended in 34 A.D.

Matthew 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand : )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Jesus was speaking to Christians who "know that we know Him if we keep His commandments" - all Ten including the 4th.

None of this has anything to do with Jews.