False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[Spiritual Israelite]

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

What is the tribulation of those days................The great tribulation.

Matthew 24
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

By the signs of the sun and moon going dark and the stars falling from heaven we can tell the great tribulation in over at the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Yeah? So? Why didn't you address anything I said? I said that Revelation 7 references "great tribulation", not "THE great tribulation". Have any thoughts on that?

Have any explanation for why you are adding the word "the" to the text before "great tribulation"?

I pointed out that all of us go through great tribulation and referenced Acts 14:22 which says "we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.". Have any thoughts on that? Clearly, there is more than one sense in which "great tribulation" can be understood.

 

[ewq1938]

When the seals are opened the events happen.

I disagree. They are just like the same events described in Matthew 24. The events are spoken of but do not take place yet and in Rev, John sees future events but they do not occur when the seals are opened. This is why Jesus does not leave heaven and remains on Earth for a thousand years after opening the 6th seal. He stays in heaven and opens the 7th seal instead of leaving for so long.

The second coming is when the 6th seal is opened.

Nope. There is one second coming and it is at the last trump not the second last seal.

Additionally, your views do not hold up as you have the Church going through the wrath of God and we are not appointed to wrath.

Wrong. No one has the church going through God's wrath, no one.

 

[The Light]

Yeah? So? Why didn't you address anything I said? I said that Revelation 7 references "great tribulation", not "THE great tribulation". Have any thoughts on that?

I gave you the facts. I showed that Matthew 24 was referring to the coming of Jesus IMMEDIATELY after THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS.

I then showed you that the tribulation of those days was referring to the Great Tribulation. After that I showed you that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. We know that because of the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

The Word proves that those that came out of great tribulation in Revelation 7 came out of THE Great Tribulation. This is just basic simple logic and it is irrefutable.

Have any explanation for why you are adding the word "the" to the text before "great tribulation"?

See above and the last post. I added nothing. I drew a conclusion based on the FACTS. Simple logic.

I pointed out that all of us go through great tribulation and referenced Acts 14:22 which says "we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.". Have any thoughts on that? Clearly, there is more than one sense in which "great tribulation" can be understood.

The verse you have posted is out of context. I posted the verses that are in context. It is the Great Tribulation that is the tribulation of those days. And it is the Great Tribulation that ends with the coming of Jesus at he 6th seal. And those that come out of great tribulation in Rev 7 are coming out of THE Great Tribulation.......................as proven by scripture.

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[The Light]

I disagree. They are just like the same events described in Matthew 24. The events are spoken of but do not take place yet and in Rev, John sees future events but they do not occur when the seals are opened.

When those seals are actually opened, the events will occur. Simple.

When the 7 seals opened, the wrath of God can begin and when those trumpets are actually blown the events spoken of will happen. Simple.

This is why Jesus does not leave heaven and remains on Earth for a thousand years after opening the 6th seal. He stays in heaven and opens the 7th seal instead of leaving for so long.

Jesus comes for a harvest at the 6th seal. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper. After the marriage supper the armies of heaven will follow Jesus for Armageddon. At the seventh trumpet, Christ will set up His kingdom on earth. Then the 1000 years begins when Satan is cast into the bottomless pit.

Nope. There is one second coming and it is at the last trump not the second last seal.

According to the Word of God the second coming is at the 6th seal. The second advent will occur at the end of the trumpets.

Wrong. No one has the church going through God's wrath, no one.

You do. What do you think those trumpets are a picnic?

 

[ewq1938]

When those seals are actually opened, the events will occur. Simple.

The events Are future. They do not happen when each seal is opened. Simple.

When the 7 seals opened, the wrath of God can begin and when those trumpets are actually blown the events spoken of will happen. Simple.

Not quite. When the seals are opened events like the wrath of satan can happen. Years go by before the wrath of God takes place.

Jesus comes for a harvest at the 6th seal.

No, he remains in heaven to open the next seal.

According to the Word of God the second coming is at the 6th seal. T

Nope, no more than the second coming takes place in Matthew 24 when Christ sat on the mount teaching.

he second advent will occur at the end of the trumpets.

The second coming and second advent are the same exact event and have the same meaning in Greek and English.

You do. What do you think those trumpets are a picnic?

No one does. You push your own invented strawman fallacy. You don't even know the dif between the wrath of satan and the wrath of God and place the wrath of God far too early during satan's time of wrath. The church is appointed to endure satan's wrath.

 

[The Light]

The events Are future. They do not happen when each seal is opened. Simple.

Yeah. So those first six seals according to you are just a mirage and the only one that is actionable is the 7th seal. That doesn't make much sense.

Not quite. When the seals are opened events like the wrath of satan can happen. Years go by before the wrath of God takes place.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal according to the Word..................unless you think the 6th seal is a mirage.

No, he remains in heaven to open the next seal.

Nope. He comes at the 6th seal and remains in the clouds. Of course, if you ignore the events of the 6th seal and pretend it doesn't happen....................

Here is Jesus in the clouds immediately after the tribulation and then the evil world is cast into the wrath of God.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Nope, no more than the second coming takes place in Matthew 24 when Christ sat on the mount teaching.

What is He teaching about? The events of the 1st six seals.

The second coming and second advent are the same exact event and have the same meaning in Greek and English.

At the second coming all eyes see the coming of the Lord. He sends angels to gather the elect for the marriage supper......hence, the great multitude in heaven some of which come out of the Great Tribulation.

The second advent is after Armageddon when Jesus sets foot on the mount of Olives. You won't be able to get this if you ignore the 1st 6 seals and pretend, they will not happen.

No one does. You push your own invented strawman fallacy .You don't even know the dif between the wrath of satan and the wrath of God and place the wrath of God far too early during satan's time of wrath. The church is appointed to endure satan's wrath.

Well, that's how it appears to you because you ignore the events of the 1st 6 seals and pretend they will not happen.

In reality the tribulation is over at the 6th seal and then the wrath of God begins after the 7th seal is opened. So in your eyes the 1st 6 seals are not actionable but miraculously the 7th seal is actionable. That makes like zero sense.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Thanks for sharing your beliefs, but I don't find your post to be convincing at all. Please back up your claims with scripture. If you just share your beliefs like this, it doesn't mean much to me because I see nothing to back them up.

you do not know where rev 5 is?
You have never read rev 5 where the son takes the scroll from the Father and opens seals?
I am not here to convince you of anything.
I am here to report the Word.
You can go against it.
You can refute what I am reading.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Is there not a great multitude in heaven now? Has there not been a great multitude in heaven for a long time already? It does not say they came out of THE great tribulation. It says they came out of great tribulation. Just as we all do.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

It is like you are trying too make a case against the obvious.
Your position is that the great multitude can not possibly be from the great tribulation.

1) they had dirty robes that had to be washed.
2) it says in rev 7
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Now keep in mind, the CONTEXT is THE GREAT TRIB...we are reading what is happening in THE GREAT TRIB.
But there is more;
Rev 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Again. The context/setting is the GT.
The subject is of the GT.

 

[ewq1938]

Yeah. So those first six seals according to you are just a mirage and the only one that is actionable is the 7th seal. That doesn't make much sense.

It's what you believe about the same events in Matthew 24. The seals are no different. The events described didn't happen when Christ spoke of them on the mount and the events don't happen when Christ opens the seals either. Those events happen in the trumps.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal according to the Word..................unless you think the 6th seal is a mirage.

Do you think the same things in Matthew 24 are mirages??

Nope. He comes at the 6th seal and remains in the clouds. Of course, if you ignore the events of the 6th seal and pretend it doesn't happen....................

It happens at the 7th trump. This is why Jesus is not shown leaving heaven or returning...he is simply still in heaven opening all the seals including the last one.

At the second coming all eyes see the coming of the Lord. He sends angels to gather the elect for the marriage supper......hence, the great multitude in heaven some of which come out of the Great Tribulation.

The second advent is after Armageddon when Jesus sets foot on the mount of Olives. You won't be able to get this if you ignore the 1st 6 seals and pretend, they will not happen.

You need to study language more. Advent and coming are the same things.

Well, that's how it appears to you because you ignore the events of the 1st 6 seals and pretend they will not happen.

Wrong. They happen within the trumps.

In reality the tribulation is over at the 6th seal

Wrong. Rev 11 and 13 both show tribulation happening LONG after the seals were opened.

and then the wrath of God begins after the 7th seal is opened. So in your eyes the 1st 6 seals are not actionable but miraculously the 7th seal is actionable. That makes like zero sense.

That's not what I believe. You are wrong on that as well as wrong on the nature of the seals, when the rapture happens and wrong about two second comings/advents. The only thing you get right is when the Mill is.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

you do not know where rev 5 is?

What kind of question is this? Please don't waste time with nonsense like this.

You have never read rev 5 where the son takes the scroll from the Father and opens seals?

Yes, I have read that many times. What is your point?

I am not here to convince you of anything.

Well, that's good because if you were you are failing miserably.

I am here to report the Word.
You can go against it.

I will go against your interpretations of the Word if I disagree with them.

You can refute what I am reading.

I can refute your interpretations of what you're reading if I disagree with them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is like you are trying too make a case against the obvious.
Your position is that the great multitude can not possibly be from the great tribulation.

Does it say "THE great tribulation"? No. It says "great tribulation". So, which of us is trying to change scripture to fit our views? It's not me.

1) they had dirty robes that had to be washed.

So? How does that prove that it's people who go through "the great tribulation" rather than "great tribulation" like we all go through (Acts 14:22)?

2) it says in rev 7
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Now keep in mind, the CONTEXT is THE GREAT TRIB...we are reading what is happening in THE GREAT TRIB.

That's your assumption. Prove it.

But there is more;
Rev 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Again. The context/setting is the GT.
The subject is of the GT.

You took a leap there. How are you relating the two passages exactly?

 

[The Light]

It's what you believe about the same events in Matthew 24. The seals are no different. The events described didn't happen when Christ spoke of them on the mount and the events don't happen when Christ opens the seals either. Those events happen in the trumps.

That's like me claiming that the events of the trumpets did not happen when John wrote them.

I have no idea how you can conclude that the events of the seals do not happen when the seals are actually opened.

You need to study language more. Advent and coming are the same things.

The second coming is when all eyes see Him. He remains in the clouds. The second advent is the arrival to the face of the earth.

Wrong. Rev 11 and 13 both show tribulation happening LONG after the seals were opened.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Revelation 11 occurs in the trumpets............during the 7th seal,

Revelation 13 and 14 occurs during the first 6 seals. If you only were able to understand that at the 7th trump the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord...................Christ has set up His kingdom on earth and wrath is over. How is it that you cannot grasp this truth.

That's not what I believe. You are wrong on that as well as wrong on the nature of the seals, when the rapture happens and wrong about two second comings/advents. The only thing you get right is when the Mill is.

The second coming happens at the 6th seal. We know that's fact as the signs of the sun, moon and stars pinpoints this event. The 6th seal is immediately after the tribulation. At the 7th seal event, the wrath of God begins. Jesus returns to the earth after Armageddon and that return to the earth is the second advent.

 

[Keraz]

The second coming happens at the 6th seal. We know that's fact as the signs of the sun, moon and stars pinpoints this event

This idea is wrong, as the signs described for the Day of fiery wrath and the glorious Return do not match.
At the DoL, the moon shines bright red and at the Return, the Moon does not give her light.

Is it not obvious to all, that the Sixth Seal is the next Prophesied event?
It will change the world and commence all the end times things, as so comprehensively Prophesied throughout the Bible.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

See above and the last post. I added nothing. I drew a conclusion based on the FACTS. Simple logic.

Why are there so many liars on this forum? Christians should know better than to lie. Where are you seeing the word "the" before "great tribulation" here:

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The verse you have posted is out of context. I posted the verses that are in context. It is the Great Tribulation that is the tribulation of those days. And it is the Great Tribulation that ends with the coming of Jesus at he 6th seal. And those that come out of great tribulation in Rev 7 are coming out of THE Great Tribulation.......................as proven by scripture.

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

If that's talking about tribulation just before Jesus returns then where did Jesus talk about things related to the destruction of the temple buildings which is what the first question the disciples asked was about?

 

[PinSeeker]

Why are there so many liars on this forum?

My question is, why are there some who, when a person is mistaken about something, automatically accuse them of lying? Being mistaken and bearing false witness are two very different things.

Christians should know better than to lie.

Well, I think Christians ~ well, people in general ~ should know the difference between being misinformed of something and lying.

Where are you seeing the word "the" before "great tribulation" here:

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Ah, well to this question, I say the inclusion or exclusion of 'the' is irrelevant. The good ol' King James... I mean, it's not wrong, or even a bad translation. But the English Standard Version does in fact say, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation." Some will argue, I'm quite sure, but there is no real difference.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My question is, why are there some who, when a person is mistaken about something, automatically accuse them of lying? Being mistaken and bearing false witness are two very different things.

I am fully aware of that and have said the same myself. But, the people I'm talking about aren't mistaken. They know what they're doing. In the case of the person I was responding to they said they added nothing to a verse that referenced "great tribulation" by calling it "THE great tribulation". I pointed that out and they still deny doing that. That is a lie.

Well, I think Christians ~ well, people in general ~ should know the difference between being misinformed of something and lying.

Yes, they should. But, some here don't seem to know the difference. Do you know which people I'm talking about and what I've seen them say? Other than this one case, you don't. So, how would you know if I'm supposedly automatically accusing them of lying or not? It's clear that some are so attached to their beliefs that they are willing to lie to keep them afloat. I've seen it many times. It's sad, but it's just the way it is for some when it comes to eschatology in particular and maybe a few other Bible topics.

Ah, well to this question, I say the inclusion or exclusion of 'the' is irrelevant.

No, it isn't, as I will show.

The good ol' King James... I mean, it's not wrong, or even a bad translation. But the English Standard Version does in fact say, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation." Some will argue, I'm quite sure, but there is no real difference.

Now, that is irrelevant. This person was quoting the KJV and saying it referred to "THE great tribulation". It does not. And it's significant as to whether it is or not because there is a clear difference between "great tribulation" generally and "THE great tribulation". If that verse (Rev 7:14) is referring generally to "great tribulation" then we can relate the following verse to it:

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

But, if it's referring to "THE great tribulation" as in a certain event that doesn't apply to all believers throughout time, then we obviously couldn't relate a verse like Acts 14:22 to it.

 

[PinSeeker]

...the people I'm talking about aren't mistaken...

That might very well be your perception.

. They know what they're doing. In the case of the person I was responding to they said they added nothing to a verse that referenced "great tribulation" by calling it "THE great tribulation". I pointed that out and they still deny doing that. That is a lie.

I just showed you the difference between the KJV and the ES ~ between which there is no difference ~ and the fact that one has 'the' in there (the ESV) and the other doesn't. So just regarding the words, no, that's not a lie. If someone were to say, the King James Version says "the great tribulation," actually quoting it, then that would be a lie. But to what you are saying, the person ~ if they are referring to a version that does have the 'the' in there, is not lying. I still maintain that whether the 'the' is included or not in Revelation 7:14 does not make a difference of any substance.

...some here don't seem to know the difference.

Doesn't that very statement implicitly say, "this is my opinion"?

Do you know which people I'm talking about and what I've seen them say? Other than this one case, you don't.

But this one case is all I'm really talking about here, SI. Because this is the case at hand.

It's clear that some are so attached to their beliefs that they are willing to lie to keep them afloat. I've seen it many times. It's sad, but it's just the way it is for some when it comes to eschatology in particular and maybe a few other Bible topics.

Maybe, but that's their deal. Why should it bother you so much, SI? I mean, yes, if they are doing that, then that's unfortunate, but it's their deal. I think... and, sorry, no offense here, but I think there comes a point, and it's probably sooner rather than later, that you should let it go.

No, it isn't, as I will show.

You think you will, I'm sure. :)

This person was quoting the KJV and saying it referred to "THE great tribulation". It does not.

I think you're being a little too... strident, I guess... in parsing the words, and therefore unwittingly creating a false narrative. Okay, he/she was quoting the KJV and saying it referred to the great tribulation. Does that not seem to you very different than actually saying, "The King James Version says, and I quote, 'the great tribulation' "...? The former is not a lie, it's just a very... as you and I will agree, I think... a very misguided opinion.

And it's significant as to whether it is or not because there is a clear difference between "great tribulation" generally and "THE great tribulation". If that verse (Rev 7:14) is referring generally to "great tribulation" then we can relate the following verse to it:

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

But, if it's referring to "THE great tribulation" as in a certain event that doesn't apply to all believers throughout time, then we obviously couldn't relate a verse like Acts 14:22 to it.

There is no definite article in the Greek, SI. If we say "the great tribulation," can that not indicate a long period of tribulation for all the saints? Even the two thousand years and counting ~ the millennium of Revelation 20 ~ that we are still in the midst of now? I say that both the King James Version (without the 'the') and the English Standard Version (with the 'the') indicate this. He or she is making a... a bad association between things. And thus is mistaken. :) Badly mistaken, but mistaken none the less.

Let it go. :) And... you should quit calling people liars. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[The Light]

Why are there so many liars on this forum? Christians should know better than to lie. Where are you seeing the word "the" before "great tribulation" here:

Bud. I can't help it if you can't put three scriptures together to determine that it is the Great Tribulation of those days.

The Word says immediately after the tribulation of those days. I have shown that the tribulation of those days is the great tribulation.

Then I showed that those events happen at the 6th seal as based on the signs of the sun, moon and stars. If you are unable to draw the proper conclusion based on these FACTS, there's nothing that can be done at this point.

I don't feel like drawing you a diagram as there wouldn't appear to be enough horsepower to warrant the effort. And I forgive you for your misplaced comment.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Exactly. Good.

If that's talking about tribulation just before Jesus returns

It is..........

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

then where did Jesus talk about things related to the destruction of the temple buildings which is what the first question the disciples asked was about?

Matthew 24
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

[Douggg]

I disagree. They are just like the same events described in Matthew 24. The events are spoken of but do not take place yet and in Rev, John sees future events but they do not occur when the seals are opened. This is why Jesus does not leave heaven and remains on Earth for a thousand years after opening the 6th seal. He stays in heaven and opens the 7th seal instead of leaving for so long.

The seven seals were all opened the day that John was in heaven to be shown what was in the book that Jesus removed the seven seals on.

It is the events revealed that are future. And will be completed in a specific order.

For reference sake in a discussion, we often refer to certain events as the sixth seal for example. But that does not mean that the sixth seal has already not been opened. All of the seals have been opened.

So Jesus is not going to be staying in heaven waiting to open the seventh seal. The seventh seal was opened back when John was in heaven and shown what was in the book.

 

[The Light]

I am fully aware of that and have said the same myself. But, the people I'm talking about aren't mistaken.

You are correct. I'm not mistaken. Here is the great tribulation.

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Here is the signs of the sun, moon and stars immediately after the tribulation of those days.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Here are the same signs at the 6th seal.
Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

You SHOULD be able to conclude that those in Rev 7 that come out of great tribulation come out of THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

They know what they're doing. In the case of the person I was responding to they said they added nothing to a verse that referenced "great tribulation" by calling it "THE great tribulation". I pointed that out and they still deny doing that. That is a lie.

Not a lie at all. You just seem unable to perform basic logic based on the facts of scripture.