Will the Jews build a Third Temple?

[David in NJ]

Since we are not talking about dead people, what point are you making?

So you are saying all have to physically die and Paul was wrong that some would actually be alive?

Then the NT would be first raptured out of their graves, and then the OT will be raptured out of their graves? Now who is projecting their opinion onto Scripture changing the subject to a resurrection?

The point is that at the Second Coming, people will be alive on the earth. The NT church will be raptured first. Then Jesus will deal directly with Jacob and all left alive on the earth of Jacob. Obviously Jacob was the first to have a relationship with God. Those after the Cross were the last. So the church will be removed first as the late comers, and then Jacob will be judged accordingly.

Obviously you are misinformed by the false prophets(David Jeremiah and others).....................

According to the Word of God: When does the rapture take place?

Please post the exact scripture(s) that precisely DICTATE when the rapture takes place = Thank You

 

[Timtofly]

Living unbelievers will all be killed after that.

Because they stand in judgment before Jesus while still alive. The Second Coming is the regeneration in those verses you cannot seem to bother to read for yourself. Evidently the Bible, to you, is as much gibberish as my post.

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory... When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

"But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first."

That is straight from Scripture. So you called Scripture gibberish.

 

[Timtofly]

What I object to is the constant nonsense that you post on this forum.

Then don't read my post, if they offend you so much.

 

[Timtofly]

Arise from Paradise, which is otherwise known as the third heaven? That's utter nonsense. Their souls will come down from paradise, not arise from paradise. Their bodies will rise from the dead and be made immortal.


Paul calls them "the dead in Christ". Did you somehow miss that? They are not spiritually dead in Paradise. Their bodies are dead. So, their bodies will be resurrected. Why am I wasting my time explaining the most elementary things possible? If you can't understand something like this I don't know if you can understand anything.


Paul calls them "the dead in Christ". Do you think it is sad that Paul calls them that? Their souls and spirits are alive, but their bodies are dead and will be resurrected to life at that time. Very simple. Yet, you still don't get it.

It is sad you think those in Paradise are still dead.

 

[Timtofly]

Obviously you are misinformed by the false prophets(David Jeremiah and others).....................

According to the Word of God: When does the rapture take place?

Please post the exact scripture(s) that precisely DICTATE when the rapture takes place = Thank You

Please post Scripture when the Second Coming takes place. Jesus said no one knows the day or hour. So if you post a verse that states, "hey this is the Second Coming", you may be shocked to not find any in Scripture.

If the word rapture is not found in Revelation, does that mean it already happened? Preterist think so.

There is no verse that dictates the rapture is post tribulation. You would have posted it.

 

[Douggg]

According to the Word of God: When does the rapture take place?

Please post the exact scripture(s) that precisely DICTATE when the rapture takes place = Thank You

Okay.

1Thessalonians5:
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

The comfort is that Christians are not appointed to wrath that takes place when the day of the Lord begins (verses 1-3). Whether we wake or sleep, is referring back to 1Thessalonians4:15-18, to the rapture/resurrection event.

So we look to 2Thessalonians2:1-4 as to what happens to trigger the beginning of the day of Lord when the wrath will begin .

The day of the Lord is called the day of Christ in verse 1.

In verse 4, the day of Lord is triggered when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood.

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That act is called in Daniel 8:13 the "transgression of desolation".

So here is a chart I made showing the window when the rapture takes place. I call this view "the anytime rapture view" borrowing from Luke 21:34-36, which is about the rapture, and has the phrase any time in it.

 

[David in NJ]

Please post Scripture when the Second Coming takes place. Jesus said no one knows the day or hour. So if you post a verse that states, "hey this is the Second Coming", you may be shocked to not find any in Scripture.

If the word rapture is not found in Revelation, does that mean it already happened? Preterist think so.

There is no verse that dictates the rapture is post tribulation. You would have posted it.

Follow the Path of Truth = "Thy word is Truth" = 1 Thess 4:13-18

But I do not want you(Timtofly) to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who are asleep(DIED).

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[David in NJ]

Okay.

1Thessalonians5:
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

The comfort is that Christians are not appointed to wrath that takes place when the day of the Lord begins (verses 1-3). Whether we wake or sleep, is referring back to 1Thessalonians4:15-18, to the rapture/resurrection event.

So we look to 2Thessalonians2:1-4 as to what happens to trigger the beginning of the day of Lord when the wrath will begin .

The day of the Lord is called the day of Christ in verse 1.

In verse 4, the day of Lord is triggered when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood.

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That act is called in Daniel 8:13 the "transgression of desolation".

So here is a chart I made showing the window when the rapture takes place. I call this view "the anytime rapture view" borrowing from Luke 21:34-36, which is about the rapture, and has the phrase any time in it.


View attachment 45993

Good Morning Doug,

Thank You for your response - much appreciated.

Your chart is in direct OPPOSITION to the TRUTH of Scripture = 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Matt ch24 and the Prophet Daniel

Can you SEE this???

 

[Keraz]

Good Morning Doug,

Thank You for your response - much appreciated.

Your chart is in direct OPPOSITION to the TRUTH of Scripture = 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Matt ch24 and the Prophet Daniel

Can you SEE this???

Douggg's response #326, proves nothing.
The scriptures quoted do not mention any kind of 'rapture/ removal', or heaven as the destination.

Like all the rapture theory believers, he has to assume and add to scripture to get it to suit that idea.
Their mistake is to ignore what the Prophets actually do say about the Lords plans for His people in the end times.

And NO; The Jews will not build the new Temple. Zechariah 6:15

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is sad you think those in Paradise are still dead.

Only physically. But, their spirits and souls are alive. Revelation 6:9-11 indicates they are conscious. Nothing sad about that. The sad thing is you saying something like this with the intention of misrepresenting my view without telling the whole story of what I believe.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because they stand in judgment before Jesus while still alive. The Second Coming is the regeneration in those verses you cannot seem to bother to read for yourself. Evidently the Bible, to you, is as much gibberish as my post.

All you can do is try to slander me since you have nothing to offer in terms of convincing scriptural evidence to back up your views.

That is straight from Scripture. So you called Scripture gibberish.

I didn't say what you quoted wasn't from scripture, I'm saying there's nothing relating what you quoted to the rapture. Big difference. So, you are lying. I did not call scripture gibberish and never would. Lying is a sin,. Apparently, you weren't aware of that. Now you know.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then don't read my post, if they offend you so much.

Very good advice. This is the best post you've ever made. I will take your advice. Goodbye.

 

[Timtofly]

Follow the Path of Truth = "Thy word is Truth" = 1 Thess 4:13-18

But I do not want you(Timtofly) to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who are asleep(DIED).

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

That is not a post tribulation passage.

That is referring to the 6th Seal. The 6th Seal happens before the 7th Seal. The 7th Seal is opened before the 1st Trumpet. This time of great tribulation you want the Second Coming to be after is the Trumpets and Thunders. However the Second Coming happens prior to the Trumpets and Thunders.

Those already in Paradise will be raptured from Paradise because they do rise first into the sky. Rising first implies caught up first, but not from the earth. They are caught up from Paradise, and then those on the earth are caught up / rise from the earth.

You do realize that those on earth go through a physical change, no? Those already in Paradise do not need a physical change. If they did, they would not be in Paradise. We are not in Paradise, because we need that physical change.

John does not explicitly state the point in the 5th Seal, because John uses symbolism instead of explicit literal points. The 5th Seal is the rapture event from both Paradise and the earth. The entire church body is symbolized by souls under the alter. That is symbolism of the second birth, redemption out of sin. The putting on of white robes is the glorification of entire church body in the meeting in the air.

John says in 1 John 3:2

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

That is the 5th Seal event. The 6th Seal is the Second Coming. The 5th Seal is when all become complete sons of God by putting on the white robes. The same with Paul and his point the completion and glorification of one's entire being. The point the righteous will shine as the stars.

The 5th and 6th Seals are John's perspective of what Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. And they happen prior to the 7th Seal, and prior to the Trumpets and Thunders.

Then at the 6th Seal you add the words of Jesus, Peter, and Zechariah 14 that Jesus arrives on the earth with all His angels and sits on a glorious throne in a temple in Jerusalem. John symbolizes the angels as the stars coming to earth. That is when those on earth know they are in trouble and they are no longer spiritually blind. They will be deceived by Satan, because he can always twist the truth.

 

[David in NJ]

That is not a post tribulation passage.

That is referring to the 6th Seal. The 6th Seal happens before the 7th Seal. The 7th Seal is opened before the 1st Trumpet. This time of great tribulation you want the Second Coming to be after is the Trumpets and Thunders. However the Second Coming happens prior to the Trumpets and Thunders.

Those already in Paradise will be raptured from Paradise because they do rise first into the sky. Rising first implies caught up first, but not from the earth. They are caught up from Paradise, and then those on the earth are caught up / rise from the earth.

You do realize that those on earth go through a physical change, no? Those already in Paradise do not need a physical change. If they did, they would not be in Paradise. We are not in Paradise, because we need that physical change.

John does not explicitly state the point in the 5th Seal, because John uses symbolism instead of explicit literal points. The 5th Seal is the rapture event from both Paradise and the earth. The entire church body is symbolized by souls under the alter. That is symbolism of the second birth, redemption out of sin. The putting on of white robes is the glorification of entire church body in the meeting in the air.

John says in 1 John 3:2

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

That is the 5th Seal event. The 6th Seal is the Second Coming. The 5th Seal is when all become complete sons of God by putting on the white robes. The same with Paul and his point the completion and glorification of one's entire being. The point the righteous will shine as the stars.

The 5th and 6th Seals are John's perspective of what Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. And they happen prior to the 7th Seal, and prior to the Trumpets and Thunders.

Then at the 6th Seal you add the words of Jesus, Peter, and Zechariah 14 that Jesus arrives on the earth with all His angels and sits on a glorious throne in a temple in Jerusalem. John symbolizes the angels as the stars coming to earth. That is when those on earth know they are in trouble and they are no longer spiritually blind. They will be deceived by Satan, because he can always twist the truth.

Stop being willfully ignorant of God's Word.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. = 1 Cor ch15

 

[Timtofly]

Only physically. But, their spirits and souls are alive. Revelation 6:9-11 indicates they are conscious. Nothing sad about that. The sad thing is you saying something like this with the intention of misrepresenting my view without telling the whole story of what I believe.

Yet you continue to point out that I am wrong, that they are physically enjoying Paradise, because Jesus is physically enjoying Paradise. You have no Scripture to prove I am wrong. They are conscious because they have a physical body. You are taking the symbolism too literally denying what the symbolism actually points out.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yet you continue to point out that I am wrong, that they are physically enjoying Paradise, because Jesus is physically enjoying Paradise. You have no Scripture to prove I am wrong.

I have a lot of scripture to prove that you are wrong, but you ignore it. Scripture teaches in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:22-23;50-54 that the dead in Christ will be not resurrected and their bodies will not be changed to be incorruptible and immortal until Jesus's second coming at the last trumpet. Yet, you have them already with incorruptible bodies. That blatantly contradicts what Paul taught.

Yet you continue to point out that I am wrong,

And will continue to do so. If I actually continue to respond to you, which is unlikely at this point.

that they are physically enjoying Paradise, because Jesus is physically enjoying Paradise.

Where does scripture teach that?

You have no Scripture to prove I am wrong.

Yes, I do and I have shared it many times. You have chosen to ignore it.

They are conscious because they have a physical body.

There is no scripture which teaches that someone can't be conscious without a body. None. Revelation 6:9-11 talks about John seeing the souls of dead people and they are conscious. It doesn't say they have bodies. If they did, why would John say he saw their souls? That would be ridiculous.

You are taking the symbolism too literally denying what the symbolism actually points out.

LOL. That is something you do repeatedly, so it's hilarious for you to try to criticize someone else for doing that. There is no symbolism in John seeing the souls of physically dead people. Scripture says we are made up of body, soul and spirit, so the soul is part of a person.

1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

They are conscious because they have a physical body. You are taking the symbolism too literally denying what the symbolism actually points out.

You like to repeat yourself, don't you?

 

[Timtofly]

I didn't say what you quoted wasn't from scripture, I'm saying there's nothing relating what you quoted to the rapture. Big difference. So, you are lying. I did not call scripture gibberish and never would. Lying is a sin,. Apparently, you weren't aware of that. Now you know.

Oh really?

You posted gibberish in post 301. I'm asking you to actually post the verses that talk about the first being last and last being verse including all the surrounding verses for context and show how they have anything to do with the rapture. You have not done that.

I asked two questions.

Really?

The gathering of the kingdom ain't got nothing to do with the gathering of the kingdom?

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory... When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

"But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first."

I quoted Scripture. Explain the context of these verses, instead of calling them gibberish. I was not asking you those questions, or I would have typed something else. You are the one who stepped into the middle of an ongoing conversation. Why do I need to quote 25 verses to explain context when the word regeneration should suffice? Scripture should always make sense, even if it is from a horribly translated English text.

 

[Davy]

Ezekiel 47-48 is the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, same river and tree of life, same names of the tribes of Israel written on the 12 gates, your claim there are "Two" future New Jerusalems is "Laughable"!

The word "Sanctuary" means nothing more than "Holy Place" and New Jerusalem will be God's eternal Holy place, where the river of life flows from the throne of God

The scripture is "Very Clear" that this dwelling place is "God's House" and not a "Temple" as you falsely suggest

Ezekiel 47:1KJV
Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.

There won't be a future Millennium on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Still your claims are bogus, and shows you are against what God's Word reveals as written.

There will... be a future "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect per the Rev.20 chapter.

And you also deny the Rev.21:22 verse which shows the new heavens and a new earth time DOES NOT INVOLVE A TEMPLE, while Ezekiel 47 is SHOWING THE EXISTENCE OF A SANCTUARY when God's River and the Tree of Life manifests again on earth.

Thus you only expose your false trust in doctrines of men, and not in God's Word as written.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh really?

Yes, lying is a sin. I'm not making that up. So, stop doing it.

I asked two questions.

Congratulations.

I quoted Scripture.

Without showing how it had anything to do with the rapture. Just quoting the scripture without saying anything about where it supposedly referenced the rapture is pointless. It said nothing about the rapture. If you think it did then you need to show how.

Explain the context of these verses, instead of calling them gibberish.

I've had it with you. You're just a clown and a liar. I would never call scripture "gibberish" and you know it. I'm calling your interpretations and your words gibberish.

I was not asking you those questions, or I would have typed something else. You are the one who stepped into the middle of an ongoing conversation.

LOL. This is a public forum. Anyone can jump into any conversation going on here at any time. If you don't want that then talk to someone in private instead.

Why do I need to quote 25 verses to explain context when the word regeneration should suffice? Scripture should always make sense, even if it is from a horribly translated English text.

I never said you had to quote 25 verses. I don't know what you're referring to in regards to regeneration. You're all over the place. This isn't worth it.

 

[Timtofly]

Stop being willfully ignorant of God's Word.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. = 1 Cor ch15

Are you willfully ignorant that those in Paradise are not dead, as you say in dead flesh?

Does Jesus have a physical body or not? If Jesus is allowed in Paradise with a physical body, why do not the rest of those in Christ?

Tell me what you misunderstand about 2 Corinthians 5:1?

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Is the tabernacle mentioned Adam's dead corruptible flesh? Is the house of God a building as opposed to the earthly tent, a different physical body? One that is allowed in Paradise, that is not corruptible? Which body does Jesus have? One of corruption from Adam, or one of incorruption from His Father, God?

Are you dead in Adam's flesh, or alive in God's permanent incorruptible physical body? Do you need a first resurrection out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh?

Can you explain to me what happened at the Cross? Up until the Cross, a soul had to wait in the valley of the shadow of death, Jesus called Abraham's bosom. There seemingly are no physical bodies down in sheol, the angels would be spirits of flaming fire, chained in darkness. Whatever a soul looks like one's mind may still feel all the senses and can see each other, no? But Jesus said on the Cross, it is finished.

Now tell me, does your verse say a soul cannot enter heaven? Why were they as souls waiting in death until the Cross, why could not a soul enter as you don't seem to claim a soul is a physical body? Now, if a soul can enter heaven, why can that soul not have God's permanent incorruptible physical body? Did Paul say this:

"For we know that when the Second Coming happens, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Or this:

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

They could not take their flesh and blood to sheol either. Paul is not contradicting himself. You cannot take the tabernacle of this earthly house to heaven, but God has a permanent incorruptible physical body waiting for the soul to enter, and you cannot prevent that from happening when a person dies, not even with theology. They have been experiencing the first resurrection since the Cross. All shall be changed, but Paul said those on earth need the change, not those in Paradise.