Time frames we have to work with

[ScottA]

I am not sure of what you mean by "the seven".

But here is a chart I made of when the seventh angel sounds his trumpet. I also show the seventh angel sounding on the second timeline chart below this one.


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Ugh...such is the glass dimly. Such a perspective is worldly, a most difficult one to navigate--not because it can't be done, but because there is only One who has done it. All other attempts end in failure...just as it is written.

Thus, it is better to consider these matters in the [only] way they can actually accurately be perceived, Which is by the same spirit of Him who "has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”

That same Spirit has restrained all other attempts until the time of the end, except the One.

This is that time. But the way and the answer is not by any timeline, but as it was stated, as "time no longer." Meaning, not a timeline, but an untimeline. For example: "the same yesterday, today and forever" does indeed define One "who was, and is, and is to come"--from a worldly perspective. But that is the wrong perspective. The only One true and correct perspective is not worldly, but godly, and therefore timelessly. In which case, He who is defined as "the same yesterday, today, and forever" worldly, is actually defined simply, as: "I am" without any reference to times. This is the "time no longer" key that "finishes the mystery of God."

Do that with your findings and you will be helping.

Meanwhile--do you hear the rumbling? He is about to sound!

 

[Douggg]

Ugh...such is the glass dimly. Such a perspective is worldly, a most difficult one to navigate--not because it can't be done, but because there is only One who has done it. All other attempts end in failure...just as it is written.

Thus, it is better to consider these matters in the [only] way they can actually accurately be perceived, Which is by the same spirit of Him who "has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”

That same Spirit has restrained all other attempts until the time of the end, except the One.

This is that time. But the way and the answer is not by any timeline, but as it was stated, as "time no longer." Meaning, not a timeline, but an untimeline. For example: "the same yesterday, today and forever" does indeed define One "who was, and is, and is to come"--from a worldly perspective. But that is the wrong perspective. The only One true and correct perspective is not worldly, but godly, and therefore timelessly. In which case, He who is defined as "the same yesterday, today, and forever" worldly, is actually defined simply, as: "I am" without any reference to times. This is the "time no longer" key that "finishes the mystery of God."

Do that with your findings and you will be helping.

Meanwhile--do you hear the rumbling? He is about to sound!

Scott, go into photo's of yourself when you were a teenager. Take one of the photos with you into the bathroom, and stand in front of the mirror holding the photo in your hand, so you can see both it and your face's reflection in the mirror. ....you are a living timeline chart.

Meanwhile--do you hear the rumbling?

Yes, it is your toilet flushing.

Work on your books. Leave eschatology and timeline charts to guys like me.

 

[Douggg]

What happens in the gap between the end of the 1290 days Daniel 12:11 and the day that Jesus returns - is that the sign of the Son of Man appears in heaven, and for 45 days the kings of the earth gather their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus.

 

[Jay Ross]

Work on your books. Leave eschatology and timeline charts to guys like me.

That is having tickets on yourself, isn't it Douggg. Particularly when your understanding is no better than ScottA.

 

[Douggg]

That is having tickets on yourself, isn't it Douggg. Particularly when your understanding is no better than ScottA.

Jay, neither you nor Scott have addressed your placement of the time frames, specific to the end times listed in the bible, how they fit together. Do you have a diagram that you have made in that regards?

If not, then go back to your post #3, take the contents and open your own thread.

 

[Timtofly]

None of them, Satans little season ends when Christ returns but exactly how long that little season lasts isn’t known.

Satan's little season after he is released? How do you know when he is released, if there is no time frame offered?

Satan is released after Jesus reigns for a thousand years, so why would Jesus who is already reigning need to come to start reigning? If the Second Coming is not as King, why have a Second Coming at all?

There is a huge difference between Satan's time is short in chapter 12 and a little season in chapter 20. In chapter 12, Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven. In chapter 20, Satan is released from the pit. That is Satan coming from 2 entirely different places with only a short time to work on the earth.

There is a time frame offered for Satan's release, after a thousand years, but you don't see that as a thousand years. You see that as something else. You don't even see that as Satan really bound either, since you think Satan is still at work for those thousand years, so what is short then, that the thousand years are over?

Because if Satan is released after a thousand years, but that thousand years ending is the short time, what is short after the thousand years, since Jesus is already reigning as well, and will never stop.

 

[Timtofly]

Not even the 42 months of the beast's rule (Revelation 13:5) ends when Jesus returns ?

No. When the 42 months end, the 2 witnesses are killed. They lay dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 days. If you are referring to Armageddon, that happens later in the day after the 2 witnesses ascend to heaven.

The Second Coming already happened at the 6th Seal. There is no time frame ending to let us know when the 6th Seal is opened.

When Satan's short time is up, 42 months, then Jesus will reclaim the throne Jesus was already using during the Trumpets and Thunders.

 

[ScottA]

Scott, go into photo's of yourself when you were a teenager. Take one of the photos with you into the bathroom, and stand in front of the mirror holding the photo in your hand, so you can see both it and your face's reflection in the mirror. ....you are a living timeline chart.


Yes, it is your toilet flushing.

Work on your books. Leave eschatology and timeline charts to guys like me.

Your badmouthing remarks do not change the fact that us being a living timeline is a world-only perspective.

Which, yes, I am happy to leave to guys like you. But then again, seeing you go down that toilet prompts me to throw you a lifeline of Godly perspective and truth, even if it is not appreciated.

As you were then.

 

[Douggg]

Your badmouthing remarks do not change the fact that us being a living timeline is a world-only perspective.

What do you mean by "world-only" perspective ?

Which, yes, I am happy to leave to guys like you. But then again, seeing you go down that toilet prompts me to throw you a lifeline of Godly perspective and truth, even if it is not appreciated.

So you are implying what you present is of a Godly perspective, while what I present is a world only perspective ?

Scott, if I might make a suggestion, stop with all the cliche's and metaphors. And instead, use clear easy to understand sentences.

Save the cliche's and metaphors to write the lyrics of a song.

 

[Douggg]

No. When the 42 months end, the 2 witnesses are killed. They lay dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 days. If you are referring to Armageddon, that happens later in the day after the 2 witnesses ascend to heaven.

The gathering of the armies at Armageddon takes a lot more than a day.

 

[ScottA]

What do you mean by "world-only" perspective ?


So you are implying what you present is of a Godly perspective, while what I present is a world only perspective ?

Scott, if I might make a suggestion, stop with all the cliche's and metaphors. And instead, use clear easy to understand sentences.

Save the cliche's and metaphors to write the lyrics of a song.

Oh, you're so funny!

World-only perspective means exactly what is says.

Have you been outside the world and seen from God's perspective?

I have.

 

[Douggg]

Have you been outside the world and seen from God's perspective?

I have.

Outside the world metaphorically or literal ? Are you a retired astronaut ?

 

[ScottA]

Outside the world metaphorically or literal ? Are you a retired astronaut ?

You first. I asked you a question.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, neither you nor Scott have addressed your placement of the time frames, specific to the end times listed in the bible, how they fit together. Do you have a diagram that you have made in that regards?

If not, then go back to your post #3, take the contents and open your own thread.

Douggg, I have created a timeframe of how the events will pan out but I have not created a graphical representation of how the little while time period at the end of the seventh age plays out as its duration is only around 24 years.

Let us consider your jpg image that is in your post #63 above.

You claim in that diagram that Daniel 7:25 and Daniel 12:7 both speak of the same time period but this is not so. Daniel 7:25 speaks of time, times and half time which has a duration of three and a half years, while Daniel 12:7 speaks of a much longer time period of a time, times and half a time which has a duration of three and a half ages which will be around 3,600 years long. Daniel 12:7 is in answer to this question which was asked, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?" This time frame for these wonders told to Daniel would be from the time of Daniel until the end of the earth as we know it today.

You have also inserted Daniel 8:14 into your diagram as having only a duration of 2,300 days whereas the reality is that God's earthly hosts have been trampled for nearly 2,300 years with the completion of this prophetic time period coming to its end in around 20 years' time when the Gentiles will be judged for their acts under the direction of the Little Horn (Beast) when they assemble at Armageddon. This Trampling of Israel began around the year 250 BC.

Now Douggg, do I have to produce a visual diagram for you to understand how misguided your understanding is? The short answer is, "NO." The long answer is that you will not accept any other possible explanation as to how the end times will unfold and so it is pointless to even attempt such a task.

Goodbye

 

[Douggg]

You first. I asked you a question.

No, I am not a retired astronaut.

 

[Douggg]

You claim in that diagram that Daniel 7:25 and Daniel 12:7 both speak of the same time period but this is not so. Daniel 7:25 speaks of time, times and half time which has a duration of three and a half years, while Daniel 12:7 speaks of a much longer time period of a time, times and half a time which has a duration of three and a half ages which will be around 3,600 years long. Daniel 12:7 is in answer to this question which was asked, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?" This time frame for these wonders told to Daniel would be from the time of Daniel until the end of the earth as we know it today.

Jay, the person speaking to Daniel was an angel dressed in linen. That angel appeared to Daniel starting in Daniel 10:5. In Daniel 10:14 that angel told Daniel that he had come to inform Daniel what would befall Daniel's people in the latter days.

The angel begins his message to Daniel in Daniel 11:2.

Everything in Daniel 11-12 is being transmitted to Daniel through that angel.

From Daniel 11:36 (Daniel 11:35 is the transition verse) to Daniel 12:13 is time of the end, the latter days.

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Now to the question asked by another angel (one of two - one on one side of the Hiddekel river, one on the other side of the Hiddekel river) in Daniel 12:6. (remember the content was already in the time of the end period)

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.



Daniel then in verse 8 says he heard what the angel was saying to him, but Daniel said he didn't really understand it.

In response, in verse 9, the angel told him that the understanding and the taking place of the words were sealed until the time of the end

So the time, times, half times is not 3500 years long, but nominally three and a half years long to take place in the time of the end. Nothing is said about ages.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, the person speaking to Daniel was an angel dressed in linen. That angel appeared to Daniel starting in Daniel 10:5. In Daniel 10:14 that angel told Daniel that he had come to inform Daniel what would befall Daniel's people in the latter days.

The angel begins his message to Daniel in Daniel 11:2.

Everything in Daniel 11-12 is being transmitted to Daniel through that angel.

From Daniel 11:36 (Daniel 11:35 is the transition verse) to Daniel 12:13 is time of the end, the latter days.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now to the question asked by another angel (one of two - one on one side of the Hiddekel river, one on the other side of the Hiddekel river) in Daniel 12:6. (remember the content was already in the time of the end period)

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.



Daniel then in verse 8 says he heard what the angel was saying to him, but Daniel said he didn't really understand it.

In response, in verse 9, the angel told him that the understanding and the taking place of the words were sealed until the time of the end

So the time, times, half times is not 3500 years long, but nominally three and a half years long. Nothing is said about ages.

Douggg, it is pointless to even attempt to show you how wrong you are.

What wonders had Daniel been told about? When would these wonders stop/end?

Douggg your level of expertise falls way below where your feet are planted and is buried so far down that it is hidden from you.

In the English mistranslations what you are suggesting makes literal sense but the actual context of what was said in the original text is very, very different from what you are claiming as being the "strewth."

Take a break and meditated on what was actually in the original transcripts of the scriptures. At the moment you are missing the point by more than a country mile.

Goodbye

 

[Timtofly]

There's NO verse 27 in Daniel. A Christian scholar added the verses and chapters in 1227 AD.

Until this LINE in the text there has been only ONE subject:

"And the people of the ruler who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And the end of it shall be with the flood, and ruins are determined, until the end shall be war".

That second subject introduced there is NOT included in the 70 weeks because the 70 weeks ACCORDING TO DANIEL IN VERSES 24-25 up until the first sentence in verse 26, IS ABOUT THE MESSIAH.

The people of the ruler who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary is ANOTHER subject.

Just because a scholar included the OTHER SUBJECT in verse 26 of HIS division of the scriptures into chapters and verses, does not mean that you can impose the inclusion of the OTHER SUBJECT upon Daniel who made ONLY the Messiah the subject of the 70 weeks when he spoke about the 70 weeks in verses 24-25 - DANIEL did NOT MAKE the OTHER people or the OTHER prince or the OTHER subject about the DESTRUCTION of THE CITY and of THE TEMPLE part of the 70 weeks.

YOU are doing that. NOT Daniel.

If you don't believe scripture, at least believe history.

You are missing the point that Jesus is the only Messiah the Prince in the 70 weeks. Jesus was cut off as Messiah and would return as the Prince to come.

That is where the mystery was introduced. The fulness of the Gentiles was why Jesus was cut off, and not made Prince. The fulness of the Gentiles is why the 70 weeks are not over. 70AD was just a part. That could have happened in 700AD, or 1770AD. The year that happened had no bearing on the 70 weeks at all. The fulness of the Gentiles was the "hiccup" in the 70 weeks.

 

[Douggg]

You have also inserted Daniel 8:14 into your diagram as having only a duration of 2,300 days whereas the reality is that God's earthly hosts have been trampled for nearly 2,300 years with the completion of this prophetic time period coming to its end in around 20 years' time when the Gentiles will be judged for their acts under the direction of the Little Horn (Beast) when they assemble at Armageddon. This Trampling of Israel began around the year 250 BC.

Jay, the text of Daniel 8:14 says 2300 days. There is nothing in the text of Daniel saying that the days represents years.
The little horn person would not even live 2300 years.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The prince of the host is Jesus. The host of heaven, are the raptured and resurrected saints, which in Revelation 13:6, the little horn person blasmphenes them.

Some of host, followers of Jesus, will be newly become Christians after the rapture/resurrection has taken place. Those
Christians the little horn person will strive to persecute.

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

This Trampling of Israel began around the year 250 BC.

The trampling of Jerusalem for 42 months in Revelation 11:2 will be during the 42 months reigh of the beast.

Now Douggg, do I have to produce a visual diagram for you to understand how misguided your understanding is? The short answer is, "NO." The long answer is that you will not accept any other possible explanation as to how the end times will unfold and so it is pointless to even attempt such a task.

Well, first of all, I don't think you have the technical ability to make a visual diagram like the one I did.

Secondly, I understand what you are saying, but it is a collection of mis-understandings and mis-interpretations of the verses.

And the bible does not speak about seven ages.

 

[Douggg]

In the English mistranslations what you are suggesting makes literal sense but the actual context of what was said in the original text is very, very different from what you are claiming as being the "strewth."

I use the kjv. The word "strewth" is not in the kjv I looked it up online, and it seems to be an Australian slang term. I live in the United States and the word is not used here.