Why didn't God destroy Satan at the beginning?

[Rockerduck]

The question for me is rooted in why does there have to be so much suffering in the world. And satan appears to be the root of all this suffering. Why is satan needed? We already know what is right and wrong; we already have free will. Is it because without temptation, we would just do the right thing? What’s the problem with that?
Ok, so maybe a spirit can’t be destroyed. Why didn’t god strip satan of his powers? Or, why cast satan to earth? Why not make another place to banish satan to? It’s irrelevant at this point; it’s just kind of fun to speculate.

Define free will please.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Satan always wanted to be God and will do everything he can to pretend he is Christ when he's here to deceive the world. It’s important to remember that Lucifer which is another name for Satan, had challenged the fairness and justice of God. He had started with his lies in heaven, and the very idea of telling a lie had never entered the minds of the angels. So the angels didn’t grasp all that lay behind Lucifer’s deceptions. So we see what Satan wanted from the start and what had come into his heart.
Isaiah 14:12-13
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:’

But Christ is the true morning star as we see in Revelation:
Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Now the place that Lucifer wants it to be at 'the mount of the congregation' in the 'north' which is God's throne..
We find the same in Psalm 48:1-2:
Psalm 48:1-2
1 Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness.
2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

If God had destroyed Satan immediately, the angels would have begun to serve Him from fear rather than from love. This would have defeated the very purpose He had in creating beings with the power of choice in the first place. God gave Satan a chance to demonstrate his system which he wanted to bring in to replace that of God. That’s why Satan was given an opportunity to show it to the worlds, and to Adam and Eve who allowed the deception here. So our world become the testing ground where Satan and his character and the nature of the kingdom he wants, are contrasted with the character of God and the nature of His kingdom. So who we choose is important and Satan will throw a curveball at us at the end.

We know that Satan can transform himself to a 'angel of light' and will show himself at the end claiming worship that belongs to God and wanting to be God. He did it in heaven and deceived a third of the angels and they followed him.
Revelation 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

And Satan will do it again at the end. But we know how it ends.

To me God did not destroy satan because in the beginning man/woman when tempted was lead away in their own lust …and its Gods Will that none perish.
1 Corinthians 5:4-5 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Interesting is:

• John 17:1-3
• These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that Your Son also may glorify You: [2] As You have given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as You have given him. [3] And this is life eternal, that they might know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You sent.

Why John 17:1-3 is interesting in my opinion is Christ has been given the Power over the flesh : then 1 Corinthians “In the name of our Lord” “the power of our Lord Jesus Christ” -deliver such a one over for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved. —-to me that says the handing over is not meant to harm but “in the power of our Lord Jesus Christ” “in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” we talk about “Crucified with Him” “yet we Live”, “it’s no longer I who lives, but Christ lives in me”isn’t the above God’s instruction of handing such a one over for crucifixion(death and burial-let the dead bury the dead), having faith in the power of God and in the name of Christ that “the spirit may be saved”

1 Timothy 1:13,20 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. [20] Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

OT about: And any weapon form against you will not prosper …this is the heritage of the saints? It’s a good question you ask. Why didn’t God destroy the devil. Same as why doesn’t God destroy the grave? personally I like to think God has destroyed satan and the grave by overcoming all things, and now John 17 Christ has been given power over the flesh. That’s a good thing. (Imo) He who learned obedience through suffering: He also became The Shepherd and BISHOP of our souls.

If I had to guess…God didn’t destroy satan because then it would condemn all men down to never rise again with satan. As none are righteous, no not one. When tempted in the garden …drawn out was a lust to follow another voice other than “and no other voice will they follow but the good shepherds Voice” …but they did follow another voice in the garden. Satan may have tempted …but it’s their lust (hidden) that took the bite.

 

[One 2 question]

The question for me is rooted in why does there have to be so much suffering in the world.

And again I find it so comforting to know that God causes suffering because it is a part of the script, His plan, His eternal purpose.

Will He cause people to suffer without end? No way. He will ensure that there is an end at some stage in the future.

Yes, He has made a place of suffering for many angels and most humans.

He will cause many humans to suffer in the future, maybe not too far in the future and maybe in our lifetime, such suffering as has never be seen or experienced ever before.

God has planned it and has even told people like John about some of what He is about to do. God is about to do some seriously bad stuff on this planet and to this planet.

But this Designer, Creator and Owner will restore all things and will reconcile everyone to Himself. Then all suffering which He has inflicted on His creations will cease. Hallelujah! What a hope we have in our Creators.

 

[One 2 question]

when

God didn’t destroy satan because then it would condemn all men down to never rise again with satan.

When you use the word destroy, do you mean annihilate?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

when

When you use the word destroy, do you mean annihilate?

I didn’t use the word destroy, it was the word given in the passages (or at least the version I use?). personally I see destroy and annihilate as the same in both do away with, or get rid of, or remove the power of death. I’m not sure what you are asking:

Is it to: annihilate death?
Or: to destroy death?
…So the spirit may be saved?

One may have sound more powerful in speech. Like verbs that mean the same but one has more punch. But still….I don’t think it’s either or?? Is it? Could be: obliterate

 

[One 2 question]

its Gods Will that none perish.

What do you mean when you use the word perish?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What do you mean when you use the word perish?

Good question. Thinking what the word “perish” means to me when I see it quoted. To dry up, whiter, shrivel, not containing Life? To bear no fruit unto God. How Roman’s says that those who know the Law have been made free from the Law and no more called an adulterous woman by the body of Christ, made free to bear fruit unto God. To remain under Moses Law …in sin bringing forth sin unto death. To me that is perishing. Some may say we weren’t under this, but I do think churches have adopted (bits and pieces) of moses laws. Even circumcision where if you keep one part of the law, you must keep the whole Law.

I think my answer to your question of it’s God’s Will that none perish… to me “to not perish”
is no longer bring forth sin unto death but bringing forth obedience unto Righteousness which is by and through Christ, who makes you neither barren nor unfruitful.

From the perspective of ‘one perishing’ or even from the perspective of ‘enemies’
Two verses are significant (Imo)
Isaiah 58:7 mentions rightly dividing your bread with the hungry.
But also “if your enemy is hungry, feed him. In so doing…”

I don’t know if that answers your question. You asked what perish means to me. I don’t know for certain what it means by it’s Gods Will that none perish …but I do see bread dealt to those hungry and also if your enemy ask “feed him” …to me it’s all about God’s Will being what was told to the disciples. John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit; so shall you be my disciples.

 

[One 2 question]

To me God did not destroy satan because in the beginning man/woman when tempted was lead away in their own lust …and its Gods Will that none perish.

 

[One 2 question]

Is this still truth, from the same lump of clay the Creator made some vessels so He can use them to do good things with. Then with the rest of the clay He made others vessels so He can use them for not goods things so that He can be justified in destroying them once He's finished using them (once they've served their purpose).

Do the Creators have the right to do whatever They want with what They made and own? I would say that's fair enough. What do you think?

All the angels were created from the same Source, by the same Source and for the same Source. Some were made for certain purposes (good) and others for not good purposes (evil). Lucifer was made to fulfil his Creator's wishes, to carry out the purpose for which he was designed and created for.

Some angels who became evil angels will be restored to their formed state. The evil within them will be destroyed by fire as it were. Then they will be purified, redeemed, restored and reconciled to their Creator.

Now that's something to be excited about. I know I am. A real answer to prayer.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

God gave people a Soul and that needs free will to grow, that's why Christ Jesus came to set you free from this world that is full of delusions and deceptions.
You must grow ! it's called being born again ! growing in our Lords Salvation. to what ends ? well it's the Kingdom of God !
One is to abided in Christ Jesus and he will in you ! that's called Grace !

Outside of Christ Jesus is Lost ! as no one comes to the Father but through his only begotten Son. peroid !

Religion never saved anyone ! Only Christ Jesus Saves ones Soul ! that's why Jesus said, You must be born again ! of the Holy Spirit !

 

[One 2 question]

Are you saying that it's not the Creators intention to annihilate anyone?

And that all will be included in His kingdom?

Good question. Thinking what the word “perish” means to me when I see it quoted. To dry up, whiter, shrivel, not containing Life? To bear no fruit unto God. How Roman’s says that those who know the Law have been made free from the Law and no more called an adulterous woman by the body of Christ, made free to bear fruit unto God. To remain under Moses Law …in sin bringing forth sin unto death. To me that is perishing. Some may say we weren’t under this, but I do think churches have adopted (bits and pieces) of moses laws. Even circumcision where if you keep one part of the law, you must keep the whole Law.

I think my answer to your question of it’s God’s Will that none perish… to me “to not perish”
is no longer bring forth sin unto death but bringing forth obedience unto Righteousness which is by and through Christ, who makes you neither barren nor unfruitful.

From the perspective of ‘one perishing’ or even from the perspective of ‘enemies’
Two verses are significant (Imo)
Isaiah 58:7 mentions rightly dividing your bread with the hungry.
But also “if your enemy is hungry, feed him. In so doing…”

I don’t know if that answers your question. You asked what perish means to me. I don’t know for certain what it means by it’s Gods Will that none perish …but I do see bread dealt to those hungry and also if your enemy ask “feed him” …to me it’s all about God’s Will being what was told to the disciples. John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit; so shall you be my disciples.

 

[One 2 question]

Are you saying that it's not the Creators intention to annihilate anyone?

And that all will be included in His kingdom?

Good question. Thinking what the word “perish” means to me when I see it quoted. To dry up, whiter, shrivel, not containing Life? To bear no fruit unto God. How Roman’s says that those who know the Law have been made free from the Law and no more called an adulterous woman by the body of Christ, made free to bear fruit unto God. To remain under Moses Law …in sin bringing forth sin unto death. To me that is perishing. Some may say we weren’t under this, but I do think churches have adopted (bits and pieces) of moses laws. Even circumcision where if you keep one part of the law, you must keep the whole Law.

I think my answer to your question of it’s God’s Will that none perish… to me “to not perish”
is no longer bring forth sin unto death but bringing forth obedience unto Righteousness which is by and through Christ, who makes you neither barren nor unfruitful.

From the perspective of ‘one perishing’ or even from the perspective of ‘enemies’
Two verses are significant (Imo)
Isaiah 58:7 mentions rightly dividing your bread with the hungry.
But also “if your enemy is hungry, feed him. In so doing…”

I don’t know if that answers your question. You asked what perish means to me. I don’t know for certain what it means by it’s Gods Will that none perish …but I do see bread dealt to those hungry and also if your enemy ask “feed him” …to me it’s all about God’s Will being what was told to the disciples. John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit; so shall you be my disciples.

 

[One 2 question]

God gave people a Soul and that needs free will to grow, that's why Christ Jesus came to set you free from this world that is full of delusions and deceptions.
You must grow ! it's called being born again ! growing in our Lords Salvation. to what ends ? well it's the Kingdom of God !
One is to abided in Christ Jesus and he will in you ! that's called Grace !

Outside of Christ Jesus is Lost ! as no one comes to the Father but through his only begotten Son. peroid !

Religion never saved anyone ! Only Christ Jesus Saves ones Soul ! that's why Jesus said, You must be born again ! of the Holy Spirit

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Are you saying that it's not the Creators intention to annihilate anyone?

And that all will be included in His kingdom?

That’s a good question too. For decades I thought because I said a little prayer asking God to come into my heart that I am saved, and yes He will come to annihilate the majority of all people. With a few being the exception.

I don’t think this any more. People may say it’s universalism but I’m persuaded He has a plan that reconciles all unto God. I don’t know what that looks like. I don’t know how. But I believe every knee will bow. I don’t want to underestimate what God can do. To me I think it all has to do with the body of Christ—the child that is born—the seed God left us.

No. I don’t think “he who loves not his brother, the love of God is not in him.” is in the kingdom. But because of the brother (For) who is, and does love ….that which is without and lacks will be given of the brother who has been given much. See. he who has been given MUCH, gives to those who have Have not.

To me we catch ourselves in our own web…like the parable given to the religious, a parable shrouded where they always asked “did he just speak against us?” There is one about having little and even that little which one has is taken from them…that is what they did. They rodded and stole what little others had. So the parable to them was his speaking it’s good to do so. But then he spoke of hearing a little for them and even that (little) taken away, where they don’t hear. Point is…you ask a hard question. I don’t have the answer really but my mom doesn’t believe. She thinks you die and go in the grave and that’s it. It’s over. She cries never knowing a fathers love, longing for a family. I wouldn’t be going over to sit with her if I thought God sees her as “one to be alienated”. I have a hope for my mother even though at 93 where her mind is gone too far to grasp working for her salvation as some would have her do. For starters my mother teaches me patience, long suffering and forgiveness without even knowing it. Another was my son-in-law. I wouldn’t be reading God’s word if it wasn’t for him. He openly mocked God. His saying there is no God. Wow he tied me into knots and put me on my knees. He passed. He also taught me many things about mercy, grace, forgiveness, long-sufferings, patience…another was my brother who passed at 58. Same thing. Our interactions like oil and water.

I do believe God has a plan for everything in creation to declare His name and it’s a good plan that comes out from the body of Christ to reconcile all things unto God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That’s a good question too. For decades I thought because I said a little prayer asking God to come into my heart that I am saved, and yes He will come to annihilate the majority of all people. With a few being the exception.

I don’t think this any more. People may say it’s universalism but I’m persuaded He has a plan that reconciles all unto God. I don’t know what that looks like. I don’t know how. But I believe every knee will bow. I don’t want to underestimate what God can do. To me I think it all has to do with the body of Christ—the child that is born—the seed God left us.

No. I don’t think “he who loves not his brother, the love of God is not in him.” is in the kingdom. But because of the brother (For) who is, and does love ….that which is without and lacks will be given of the brother who has been given much. See. he who has been given MUCH, gives to those who have Have not.

To me we catch ourselves in our own web…like the parable given to the religious, a parable shrouded where they always asked “did he just speak against us?” There is one about having little and even that little which one has is taken from them…that is what they did. They rodded and stole what little others had. So the parable to them was his speaking it’s good to do so. But then he spoke of hearing a little for them and even that (little) taken away, where they don’t hear. Point is…you ask a hard question. I don’t have the answer really but my mom doesn’t believe. She thinks you die and go in the grave and that’s it. It’s over. She cries never knowing a fathers love, longing for a family. I wouldn’t be going over to sit with her if I thought God sees her as “one to be alienated”. I have a hope for my mother even though at 93 where her mind is gone too far to grasp working for her salvation as some would have her do. For starters my mother teaches me patience, long suffering and forgiveness without even knowing it. Another was my son-in-law. I wouldn’t be reading God’s word if it wasn’t for him. He openly mocked God. His saying there is no God. Wow he tied me into knots and put me on my knees. He passed. He also taught me many things about mercy, grace, forgiveness, long-sufferings, patience…another was my brother who passed at 58. Same thing. Our interactions like oil and water.

I do believe God has a plan for everything in creation to declare His name and it’s a good plan that comes out from the body of Christ to reconcile all things unto God.

Just an opinion. I think there is much to learn from Israel and the part that was blinded for the sake of the part that…they see.

To me, it means to not boast against those blinded, so that you could be counted as one who sees. For starters this is not of your (our)own doing…

 

[One 2 question]

Just an opinion. I think there is much to learn from Israel and the part that was blinded for the sake of the part that…they see.

To me, it means to not boast against those blinded, so that you could be counted as one who sees. For starters this is not of your (our)own doing…

Agreed. Some were cut out so some others could be grafted in.

For that I'm eternally grateful for Him Who does the cutting and grafting.

And in knowing that those cut out will be grafted back in again at some point is wonderful. This future event is known only by Him. And to know that He is the only one Who is capable to cut and graft. This is fantastic and produces joy with me personally. It generates hope in this Creator Who is more than capable of carrying out these tasks for with Him nothing is impossible and all things are possible. Then the love that bubbles up with me for this Designer, Creator and Owner of everything grows by the day.

All glory to Him for He deserves it.

 

[One 2 question]

If God had destroyed Satan immediately, the angels would have begun to serve Him from fear rather than from love. This would have defeated the very purpose He had in creating beings...

And Satan will do it again at the end. But we know how it ends.

I don't assume I know the very purpose Lucifer's Creator designed and created him specifically for, let alone all the other created beings including angels.

Nor do I assume to know how it ends for Lucifer. For does he have life within him that will never end?

Did John see to the end of everlasting eternity? I don't know. Did he document all that he saw? No, for he documented that fact. So his scroll only contained certain extremly limited information about the ever after and the never ending kingdom reign of the Creator.

This I know, all the angelic beings, including Satan, the devil will be reconciled with their Creator where Satan will not only be restored to his former position, role, glory but will be elevated and promoted.

His Creator will give him a throne to His left as a trophy and testament of God's greatness, mercy, loving kindness, grace ....

This I know, not because the bible tells me so, but because my adorable, magnificent Creator revealed this to His son.
And for this I, His son worship and praise Him.

 

[Kabone]

Define free will please.

My actions are my own, without coercion or threat. If those are present then I didn’t freely act.

 

[Kabone]

If there were no suffering, would you feel the same way?

 

[Rockerduck]

My actions are my own, without coercion or threat. If those are present then I didn’t freely act.

Thank you for your response. God says this:

Jeremiah 10:23 -
O Lord, I know the way of man is not in himself.
It is not in man who walks to direct his own steps.

Proverbs 16:9 -
A man’s heart plans his way,
But the Lord directs his steps.