Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?

[Truth7t7]

It doesn't say "at" the 69th week, it says "after" the 69th week the Messiah would be cut off. Which places the timing of Him being cut off during the 70th week.

Your timeline is distorted with a 37 year gap jumping around from Calvary 33AD to 70AD Roman Armies?

Daniel 9:26-27KJV
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (Calvary 33AD), but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; (70AD Roman Armies) and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Calvary 33AD) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

The beast is a symbolic entity and does not symbolize a human being.

Your claim is false, just as Daniel stated (His Body Destroyed) Literal Human Body, John stated the same (Cast Alive/Living) Literal Living Human

Daniel 7:11KJV
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your timeline is distorted with a 37 year gap jumping around from Calvary 33AD to 70AD Roman Armies?

Daniel 9:26-27KJV
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (Calvary 33AD), but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; (70AD Roman Armies) and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Calvary 33AD) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I am not claiming that there is any gap in the 70 week prophecy. You assume wrongly that the destruction of the city and the sanctuary has to occur during the 70 weeks, but there's nothing which says that. The things that are specifically said to occur within the 70 weeks are listed in Daniel 9:24 as well as the reference to the first coming of the Messiah and the Messiah being cut off. And, in my view, the reference to Him confirming the new covenant is said to occur in the 70th week. Nothing else written there is said to have to occur within the 70 weeks.

 

[Truth7t7]

He grammatically refers back to the prince, and the prince back to Messiah the Prince.

False!

Messiah the Prince upper caps (M/P) is deity

prince lower caps (p) not deity in Jesus Christ as you falsely claim

1 Corinthians 8:5-6KJV
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Daniel 9:25-26KJV
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your claim is false,

No, your claim is false.

just as Daniel stated (His Body Destroyed) Literal Human Body, John stated the same (Cast Alive/Living) Literal Living Human

Daniel 7:11KJV
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Again, it's symbolism. The beast doesn't have a literal body any more than it has literal heads and horns. But, go ahead and insist on not recognizing symbolic text while assuming everything is literal if that's what you want to do. It results in you having false beliefs, but I guess clinging to your hyper-literal method of interpretation is more important to you than the truth.

 

[Truth7t7]

I am not claiming that there is any gap in the 70 week prophecy. You assume wrongly that the destruction of the city and the sanctuary has to occur during the 70 weeks, but there's nothing which says that. The things that are specifically said to occur within the 70 weeks are listed in Daniel 9:24 as well as the reference to the first coming of the Messiah and the Messiah being cut off. And, in my view, the reference to Him confirming the new covenant is said to occur in the 70th week. Nothing else written there is said to have to occur within the 70 weeks.

You have events in verse 26 having 33AD and 70AD timelines in the same verse, then it jumps back to 33 AD in verse 27, what's going on here?

Daniel 9:26-27KJV
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (Calvary 33AD), but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; (70AD Roman Armies) and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Calvary 33AD) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

False!

Messiah the Prince upper caps (M/P) is deity

prince lower caps (p) not deity in Jesus Christ as you falsely claim

1 Corinthians 8:5-6KJV
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Daniel 9:25-26KJV
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

So, is it your belief that the Bible was originally written in King James English? The King James translators decided to capitalize "Prince" in verse 25 and not to capitalize "prince" in verse 26, but there was no basis for doing so since the Hebrew word they translated is the same in each verse. The NIV translators were at least consistent in their translation of the Hebrew word.

Daniel 9:25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.

Other translations like the ESV translate the word as "a prince" and "the prince" in each verse, so it also is consistent with the case it uses when translating the word. So, going by whether the word was capitalized or not in an English translation is not a valid way of determining the truth of this matter.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, - KJV

Did the King James translators make a mistake by not capitalizing "the prince" in this verse since it refers to Jesus Christ? Or can you acknowledge that it doesn't matter if they capitalized it or not?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No one is claiming that the new covenant that Jesus confirmed with His blood was a 7 year covenant. So, you're making a straw man argument here. What is being claimed is that the eternal new covenant was confirmed and established during the 70th week.

lol

when you say messiah the prince confirms a covenant for one week. Your saying that.

The only strawman is denying anyone is claiming it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Again, no one is claiming that Jesus confirmed the new covenant for only 1 week (7 years). Do you seriously think that anyone is claiming that? Why are you wasting your time making these straw man arguments? What many of us believe is that Jesus confirmed the eternal new covenant during the 70th week. It doesn't take eternity to confirm the eternal new covenant.

You have not been paying attention.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You have events in verse 26 having 33AD and 70AD timelines in the same verse, then it jumps back to 33 AD in verse 27, what's going on here?

Daniel 9:26-27KJV
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (Calvary 33AD), but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; (70AD Roman Armies) and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Calvary 33AD) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

What's going on here is that there's nothing that says it can't jump around in time. You are making up your own rules about how scripture can be worded. It's not unusual for Bible prophecy to sometimes jump around in time. What that passage is doing is talking about things that would happen to Jesus and what He would do and then what the eventual result of things that happened to Him and what He did would be. The city of Jerusalem and the temple buildings were destroyed in 70 AD because the Jews, as a whole, rejected Christ (not all of them, of course, but generally speaking). That is what Jesus said would happen.

Luke 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, 42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. 43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, 44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

What he described here is exactly what happened around 70 AD. The Roman armies came and surrounded the city and proceeded to destroy it. They destroyed the city and the sanctuary just as the prophecy in Daniel said would happen.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

True.

He confirmed His Eternal Covenant in His Blood with Israel via His Ministry on earth for the first 3.5 years of the 70th week, and after His Death, Resurrection, and Ascension, He confirmed His Eternal Covenant in His Blood with Israel via His Disciples' ministry on earth for the remaining 3.5 years of the 70th week.

Thereafter, the Covenant was additionally extended to the Gentiles as the Disciples took the gospel to them.

A lot of mumbo jumbo here

But nothing to do with the prophecy of daniel 9

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

lol

when you say messiah the prince confirms a covenant for one week. Your saying that.

The only strawman is denying anyone is claiming it.

Don't try to tell me what I'm saying. I'm telling you what I'm saying. If you don't accept my explanation of what I believe, that's on you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I never said you didn't try to show me what you believe. Are you paranoid? You obviously have shown me what you believe and I disagree with it. Deal with it and accept that instead of whining about it.

yawn

We're repeating ourselves at this point. I don't mind ending the conversation. It is boring me, also, since nothing new is being said at this point.


I emphasized Daniel 9:24 because it specifically lists things that were to be fulfilled during the 70 weeks. I was not acting as if the whole prophecy is contained within only that verse and you know it.

But they have not been fulfilled. Concerning the contet of Daniel 9

Read daniels prayer. And study lev 26. You will get context.

I do. But, thanks for the reminder.


You do act like a child on here. You lie and you whine when someone disagrees with you. You are very childish.

I lie. Please show me one lie

get real man,, Who is the one acting like a child??

I am not whining.. lol.. You think to highly of yourself..

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I lie. Please show me one lie

You keep saying that someone is claiming to believe that Jesus confirmed a seven year covenant. No one is saying that. So, that is a lie. I'd call it a mistake instead of a lie, but you keep saying it even after being corrected. So, it's a lie.

get real man,, Who is the one acting like a child??

That would be you, obviously.

 

[Truth7t7]

So, is it your belief that the Bible was originally written in King James English? The King James translators decided to capitalize "Prince" in verse 25 and not to capitalize "prince" in verse 26, but there was no basis for doing so since the Hebrew word they translated is the same in each verse. The NIV translators were at least consistent in their translation of the Hebrew word.

Daniel 9:25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.

Other translations like the ESV translate the word as "a prince" and "the prince" in each verse, so it also is consistent with the case it uses when translating the word. So, going by whether the word was capitalized or not in an English translation is not a valid way of determining the truth of this matter.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, - KJV

Did the King James translators make a mistake by not capitalizing "the prince" in this verse since it refers to Jesus Christ? Or can you acknowledge that it doesn't matter if they capitalized it or not?

Fact us, the "prince" isn't Jesus Christ nor were the Roman Soldiers people of the prince, and the "he" isn't Jesus Christ as many falsely claim

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm saying Jesus was cut off in the middle of the week and that was part of what confirmed the new covenant along with the preaching of the gospel first to Israel in the second half of the 70th week. I've already explained this multiple times so I shouldn't have to spell all this out every time I talk about it.

Yes, I understand you think this

But that is not what the text says

it says messiah will get cut off AFTER the 69th week.. Then someone will confirm a covenant with many for one week. But break that covenant int he middle of the week.

i do not see any other way of interpreting the passage,

It is unbelievably sad when people like you mistake prophecy about Jesus Christ for a supposed Antichrist instead. Scripture does not teach anything about a future Antichrist making a seven year covenant and breaking it in the middle of it. Also, what "holy place" would he be standing in?

It’s not a prophecy about Jesus. Its unbelievably sad when people who are trying to discuss prophecy have to resort to low tactics like this.

and you claim i am acting like a child..

Scripture does say in the middle of a 7 year period a world leader will declair himself to be the christ.. Maybe you forgot this>

What what holy place is it standing in?

where did Jesus say it would be standing in?

Matt 24: 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

do you understand?

 

[Truth7t7]

You keep saying that someone is claiming to believe that Jesus confirmed a seven year covenant. No one is saying that. So, that is a lie. I'd call it a mistake instead of a lie, but you keep saying it even after being corrected. So, it's a lie.

That would be you, obviously.

You're the one opening up with false attacks in complete diversion and distraction from the presented subject at hand

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Don't try to tell me what I'm saying. I'm telling you what I'm saying. If you don't accept my explanation of what I believe, that's on you.

If your saying jesus is the one who confirms the covenant for one week. Then that is what you are saying

deny it all you want.. your fooling yourself.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You keep saying that someone is claiming to believe that Jesus confirmed a seven year covenant.

They are..

everytime they say jesus in the prince who confirmed the covenant

Dan 9: 27
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

It says right there in black and white, he shall confirm a covennt for 1 week (seven years
in the middle of the week (3.5 years) he shall bring and end to sacrifice and offering.

if you claim HE is jesus, you claim he confirms a covenant for one week. You can;t claim jesus put and end to sacrifice and offering, and deny he confirmed a covenant for 7 years.

No one is saying that. So, that is a lie. I'd call it a mistake instead of a lie, but you keep saying it even after being corrected. So, it's a lie.

That would be you, obviously.

Yet i just proved that you are the one lying about anyone claiming jesus confirmed a covenant for 1 week.

Because everyone who says that Jesus is the “he” says just that!!deny it all you want..

You’re not hurting me, you’re proving me right.

 

[Truth7t7]

What's going on here is that there's nothing that says it can't jump around in time. You are making up your own rules about how scripture can be worded. It's not unusual for Bible prophecy to sometimes jump around in time.

More like your claims and interpretation of Daniel 9:26-27 is a man made fairy tale, and you have been clearly shown your error

Two verse going from 33AD to 70AD, then back to 33AD, is a man made fairy tale!

Your trying to sell blocks of ice at the North Pole in the middle of winter time, and I'm not buying any, smiles!