The Gospel of Reconciliation

[Rightglory]

If one has been justified, then his sins have been forgiven. There is no condition of being justified and not being forgiven. They are essentially, though not precisely, the same thing. Strictly speaking, when God justifies a person, He is declaring no punishment for that person. To be justified is to be declared righteous which necessitates being forgiven.

The topic we are discussing has no forgiveness of sins stated or implied. Christ accomplished two things by His death and resurrection. The primary work was to overcome death. Secondly, He made Himself the eternal sacrifice for sin. There is no forgiveness here either.
Rom 5:`16,18 justification is used also, but it is life that justifies man to God.
The context will usually state what is being justified. It means to make right, so there are many applications for the word.

In the sermon of Peter on Pentecost, people believed but when they asked as to what they should do, Peter stated repent and be baptized.
If one confesses one's sins they are justified, but the forgiveness comes first. If you stated it the other way around you would be correct.
The way you are stating it makes forgiveness of sin a meaning of the word justify. Being justified does not forgive sins, but forgiveness of sins does make one justified.
Acts 13, 39 it is faith that justifies.

 

[brightfame52]

@Rightglory

The one thing you have correct here is that those Christ reconciled were justified.

Thats forgiveness also, being Justified ! Rom 4:25

Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The word Justification here dikaiōsis:

1. the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him
2. abjuring to be righteous, justification

Its impossible to be reconciled to God and not be forgiven !

 

[brightfame52]

If one has been justified, then his sins have been forgiven. There is no condition of being justified and not being forgiven. They are essentially, though not precisely, the same thing. Strictly speaking, when God justifies a person, He is declaring no punishment for that person. To be justified is to be declared righteous which necessitates being forgiven.

I actually must agree with you on this post, even though you and I are miles apart. You still teach works salvation

 

[Rightglory]

@Rightglory



Thats forgiveness also, being Justified ! Rom 4:25

What do you do? Just match words and assume they all have the same meaning?
The word justification in Rom 5:25 is about Christ resurrection giving life. It is the same meaning in Rom 5:18. Justification to life.
Has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness of sin.

Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The word Justification here dikaiōsis:

1. the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him
2. abjuring to be righteous, justification

Might have known that Calvin being a former Roman Catholic and all Protestants took the Latin meaning for a Greek word, Dikaiosis which in Hebrew and Greek has never had the legal meaning. It was translated from the Hebrew Tsedheg. The Greek meaning is to make righteous or to make right. Isn't any wonder you have such a difficult time understanding the topic. Due to Anselm and His Satisfaction theory used the Latin word justify because Latin had no word for righteous.
In the texts of Rom 5:18, 4:25 man is made right with God by virtue of Christ's resurrection giving life to the world. There is no forgiveness of sin implied or stated in the context either.
This is why your view is so absurd, Scripturally in these verses it would mean that all men were forgiven of their sin. I can see you would have a huge disconnect and maybe why Calvin needed a limited atonement because he did not understand Greek or Hebrew.

Its impossible to be reconciled to God and not be forgiven !

See above. It is actually the other way around. To be forgiven is to be made righteous or justified. Reconcile has the same meaning.

 

[JBO]

The topic we are discussing has no forgiveness of sins stated or implied. Christ accomplished two things by His death and resurrection. The primary work was to overcome death. Secondly, He made Himself the eternal sacrifice for sin. There is no forgiveness here either.
Rom 5:`16,18 justification is used also, but it is life that justifies man to God.
The context will usually state what is being justified. It means to make right, so there are many applications for the word.

In the sermon of Peter on Pentecost, people believed but when they asked as to what they should do, Peter stated repent and be baptized.
If one confesses one's sins they are justified, but the forgiveness comes first. If you stated it the other way around you would be correct.
The way you are stating it makes forgiveness of sin a meaning of the word justify. Being justified does not forgive sins, but forgiveness of sins does make one justified.
Acts 13, 39 it is faith that justifies.

(ESV) Act 13:37 but he whom God raised up did not see corruption. 38 Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.

If you read that carefully, you will see that it is Jesus that is being talked about here. Also, salvation encompasses three significant changes for a person; they are justification, regeneration and (initial) sanctification. These are all acts of God. I would be happy to provide to you the details of each, but that is probably best done in a separate topic discussion.

 

[JBO]

You still teach works salvation

You think that because you do not really understand what Paul is saying when he says salvation is not by works. And because you preach another gospel from that which Paul preached. Yours is a false Calvinist soteriology.

 

[gordon7]

are justification, regeneration and (initial) sanctification.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[gordon7]

Do you think being justified, is displayed in people not willing to listen ?

Your now 58 pages of dispute, is testimony to nobody seeking to be justified, how are you showing justification by belief in Jesus Christ, by the very opposite, to do what is devilish to be of strife/contention/dispute/debate ?

You may not listen to yourselves, but you are listened to, in every word you are saying.



James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

 

[gordon7]

Also as I said and was ignored, elect are for this:


Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

 

[gordon7]

We know well that many false teachers are in the way of entering into the kingdom of heaven, no wonder there is such a long discussion on the gospel of reconciliation, so that no reconciliation could ever be found by those who might be seeking. ( unless they show willingness to listen, to be slow to speak, to even talk about hat being justified is, which is peace humbleness of mind, and agreement and not strife which is devilish instead.

 

[JBO]

We know well that many false teachers are in the way of entering into the kingdom of heaven, no wonder there is such a long discussion on the gospel of reconciliation, so that no reconciliation could ever be found by those who might be seeking. ( unless they show willingness to listen, to be slow to speak, to even talk about hat being justified is, which is peace humbleness of mind, and agreement and not strife which is devilish instead.

And are you including yourself in that debasement of those who have posted here on this topic? Probably not even though you obviously should.

 

[gordon7]

I know all who cant humble themselves are the false teachers, without exception.


Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

 

[brightfame52]

What do you do? Just match words and assume they all have the same meaning?
The word justification in Rom 5:25 is about Christ resurrection giving life. It is the same meaning in Rom 5:18. Justification to life.
Has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness of sin.

Might have known that Calvin being a former Roman Catholic and all Protestants took the Latin meaning for a Greek word, Dikaiosis which in Hebrew and Greek has never had the legal meaning. It was translated from the Hebrew Tsedheg. The Greek meaning is to make righteous or to make right. Isn't any wonder you have such a difficult time understanding the topic. Due to Anselm and His Satisfaction theory used the Latin word justify because Latin had no word for righteous.
In the texts of Rom 5:18, 4:25 man is made right with God by virtue of Christ's resurrection giving life to the world. There is no forgiveness of sin implied or stated in the context either.
This is why your view is so absurd, Scripturally in these verses it would mean that all men were forgiven of their sin. I can see you would have a huge disconnect and maybe why Calvin needed a limited atonement because he did not understand Greek or Hebrew.

See above. It is actually the other way around. To be forgiven is to be made righteous or justified. Reconcile has the same meaning.

Lol, you cant even see that forgiveness of sins and Justification are relatively the same.

 

[brightfame52]

You think that because you do not really understand what Paul is saying when he says salvation is not by works. And because you preach another gospel from that which Paul preached. Yours is a false Calvinist soteriology.

You still teach works salvation

 

[JBO]

You still teach works salvation

No I don't. I teach salvation by the grace of God.

 

[gordon7]

You still teach works salvation

2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[gordon7]

No I don't. I teach salvation by the grace of God.

1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1

 

[brightfame52]

No I don't. I teach salvation by the grace of God.

Yes you do, and even though you made a sound comment to that other poster, you really dont understand it.

 

[Rightglory]

(ESV) Act 13:37 but he whom God raised up did not see corruption. 38 Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.

If you read that carefully, you will see that it is Jesus that is being talked about here. Also, salvation encompasses three significant changes for a person; they are justification, regeneration and (initial) sanctification. These are all acts of God. I would be happy to provide to you the details of each, but that is probably best done in a separate topic discussion.

Would not disagree. But the topic is completely different. It is NOT referencing the death and resurrection of Christ. This context is speaking about man's response to the work of Christ. Christ's work made this possible for mankind. Because of His sacrifice for sin, He is now our High Priest. We can confess our sins and He will forgive them. This is how man can reconcile himself to God.

 

[Rightglory]

We know well that many false teachers are in the way of entering into the kingdom of heaven, no wonder there is such a long discussion on the gospel of reconciliation, so that no reconciliation could ever be found by those who might be seeking. ( unless they show willingness to listen, to be slow to speak, to even talk about hat being justified is, which is peace humbleness of mind, and agreement and not strife which is devilish instead.

The topic is not about the reconciliation of man to God. It is about Christ's reconciliation of the world to God. In other words His Incarnation/death/resurrection.