Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

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Carl Emerson

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Like we've shared before, that single word HELL is translated from 3 different Greek words.
Do I believe in "gehenna/HELL". It was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. And 'today' 2,000 years later....it's a housing subdivision in a much bigger Jerusalem.
Do I believe in "hades/HELL"? Which is 'the grave'....and to this day in New England when it is time to "HELL THE POTATOES", it simply means to dig a hole "pit" and cover them with dirt.
Do I believe in "tataroo/HELL"? Which is the bible ONE TIME and it a place where

2PE 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of nether gloom to be kept UNTIL THE JUDGMENT;

Then read the definition BY MAN of this word; 5020 tartaroo: to incarcerate in eternal torment.

So, they are incarcerated in eternal torment...awaiting WHAT JUDGMENT???? STRONG'S isn't the word of God definition from the mouth of God. It is man's attempt to best translated/interpret what they 'think' a word should mean.

As for the word HELL in itself. I always tell people to "Google; When was the word hell invented."

This is what always pops up, just like it did now;

725 AD
Hell, Hades, Tartarus, Gehinnom
. The word 'Hell' is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word hellia (derived from the Old English, Old Norse, Old High German, hel, helle, circa. 725 AD) that is used in the King James version of the Bible to capture the Jewish concept of 'Gehanna' as the final destination of the wicked.

I don't care if anyone disagrees with me...or Steven, or others. But I do wish they'd at least see that we truly do have good reasons..IMO... to believe how we do.

Yes, I understand, I think the matter that would have attracted a lot of reports on posts was the claim that believers were holding a position that God was a tyrant.

I opened the topic by quoting Isaiah and his encounter with God and the Word that followed concerning the destruction of surrounding peoples - you might be kind enough to respond to this.

Similarly the dialogue between Lot and the angels at Sodom - do you think this portrays God as a just judge?
 
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Aunty Jane

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I agree with Steven and many others I've heard over the years. Father hurts and church hurts are the two biggest things I've heard in my 50 years. I was at a conference in Denver one time when the speaker asked how many in the audience NEVER heard their father say "I love you". It was amazing how many hands went up....with mine.


Growing up I feared the God of ETERNAL HELL...when I was indoctrinated to believe that way from the church (RC).
Now I just fear His punishments which are intended to make us better. Same way I feared the punishments of my parents.

HEB 12:6 For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises/scourges every son whom he receives."

But there is no punishMENT in ETERNAL HELL, because there is only eternal PUNISHING. And that is simply worse than Hitler with an eternal Auschwitz IMO. Sin and death are never destroyed with eternal hell. If hell is true, I can't imagine those screaming tortured souls yelling "PRAISE GOD" "BLESS YOU LORD".....can you? I hear only eternal expletives. OK I'll stop. o_O


2 years ago I went through a very 'dark night of the soul' time. My wife said she had never seen me cry so much in that 2 week test in the wilderness. And yes, what a blessing it was to come to the place of resting and knowing that 'ME plus HE was a MAJORITY'.....as I faced those from whom I feared another 'church hurt'.

I once had a patient>friend>brother from the AofG church in town. I went to visit him at home when he was about to die of colon cancer. I asked him how he was doing? He said it is a fearful thing when you are in the valley of the shadow of death...and it is so dark...you can't SEE the ROCK of your salvation. But I kept groping until I felt HIM, and I am at peace. The sign over his hospital door said;
"Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him." JOB 13:15
I just wanted to tell you what an excellent reply that was…..I agree with you wholeheartedly about the concept of eternal punishment in Christendom’s “hell”…..you did well in explaining the meaning of the three words erroneously translated as “hell”…..that place does not exist. Like other concepts taught in Christendom, it finds its origins in false religion, not the Bible.

In order to be punished, a soul has to be alive, whereas the wicked are told that they will die…even in Psalm 37:10-11, 29, it was prophesied….
”Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more;
You will look at where they were,
And they will not be there.
11 But the meek will possess the earth,
And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. . . .

The righteous will possess the earth,

And they will live forever on it.”

In order to “be no more” the wicked are taken off the scene, never to disturb the peace of God’s people again…..we have had enough of rebels interfering with our lives, haven’t we? How do we think God’s elevated view sees the wickedness being practiced here under Satan’s influence? What patience he is exercising to make sure that not a single lamb is missing.

But the concept of hell would never have entered our consciousness unless another error had not been adopted to facilitate it…..immortality of the soul. This is another teaching that finds no place in the Bible. Again, it is borrowed from pagan concepts……most of what Christendom teaches does not originate from the Bible. They have skillfully woven these concepts into God’s word to create the tyrant that @St. SteVen speaks of.….a God to be feared in all the wrong ways. “Fear“ is a powerful weapon in the wrong hands and satan uses it skillfully.….cultivated ignorance is another….

Since punishment from God is designed to teach us something, with a view to correcting us…there is a purpose to punishment…repentance leading to forgiveness. What is the purpose of a “hell” of eternal torment” with no possible way to repent? That would be punishment for the sake of it….punishment from God is discipline with a purpose. If the punishment does not lead to correction, then what is the point of allowing incorrigible sinners to exist at all? To simply remove those who refuse God’s appeals to them whilst they are alive, no good is accomplished by punishing them after death. God will simply remove them from existence because they do not belong in his purpose for this earth and the reasons why he created man in the first place.

It’s all about obedience….and has been from day one. God has never said he would save “good” people….he is going to save humble and obedient ones.…those who can follow instruction without argument.
Us parents know how it feels when our children obey us without protest…..and then experience a good outcome because they listened and did as they were told..…but how frustrating it is to have them disobey and then suffer because they failed to understand that we had their best interests at heart. Yet the bad outcome itself teaches them the value of obedience, even if they do not understand that our motives are always good. Jehovah is the ultimate loving parent.
 

Hillsage

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Yes, I understand, I think the matter that would have attracted a lot of reports on posts was the claim that believers were holding a position that God was a tyrant.
I obviously did attract a lot of ugly responses...WE always do. But in your heart of hearts...don't you agree that Hitler was a tyrant? In my heart of hearts, my God isn't the God of orthodoxy. And my view of God isn't a tyrant. He isn't doing something that's worse than Hitler in our opinion.

I opened the topic by quoting Isaiah and his encounter with God and the Word that followed concerning the destruction of surrounding peoples - you might be kind enough to respond to this.
I had to go back to look. Are you wanting a response to your testimony where you said ;

"I assume you have not had a first hand encounter, like Isaiah, with His Holy Presence that leaves you speechless for hours ???"
If that's the case, I can't honestly say I've been "speechless for hours". But I can say I have had enough supernatural encounterS, that have left me in 'AWE' of Him for decades. :innocent: I hope that counts. ;)

Similarly the dialogue between Lot and the angels at Sodom - do you think this portrays God as a just judge?
I went and read the whole chapter. And I'm still not sure just what dialogue are you referring to?

But as for God being just. Yes, I believe he is just. As for Sodom AND Gomorrah's judgment....what was it? According to nominal translations of the bible ETERNAL FIRE?

JUD 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of ETERNAL FIRE.

Steven had a thread, or maybe just a post recently, pointing out the FACT that where is 'the eternal fire' judgment of Sodom today? It isn't still burning, is it?

And as for our just God, what does He say concerning how the DAY OF JUDGMENT is going to be for for Sodom and Gomorrah?

MAT 10:15 Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

And just 'what town' is "that town"?

MAT 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans,
6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



I'm more concerned with what God's plan for 'the end' was, 'from the beginning'. I'm more concerned with that than I'm concerned with our misunderstandings of His temporal judgments in BETWEEN the BEGINNING and the END.

I hope we're caught up here Carl, cause I can go on and on and on. Let's don't, if all you want to do is defend where you are. I've been there. And I will never go back. Love you bro. We would be shoulder to shoulder if this was about Fundamentals being against us CRAZIMATICS. :hmhehm
 

Hillsage

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I just wanted to tell you what an excellent reply that was…..I agree with you wholeheartedly about the concept of eternal punishment in Christendom’s “hell”…..you did well in explaining the meaning of the three words erroneously translated as “hell”…..that place does not exist. Like other concepts taught in Christendom, it finds its origins in false religion, not the Bible.

In order to be punished, a soul has to be alive, whereas the wicked are told that they will die…even in Psalm 37:10-11, 29, it was prophesied….
”Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more;
You will look at where they were,
And they will not be there.
11 But the meek will possess the earth,
And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. . . .

The righteous will possess the earth,

And they will live forever on it.”

In order to “be no more” the wicked are taken off the scene, never to disturb the peace of God’s people again…..we have had enough of rebels interfering with our lives, haven’t we? How do we think God’s elevated view sees the wickedness being practiced here under Satan’s influence? What patience he is exercising to make sure that not a single lamb is missing.

But the concept of hell would never have entered our consciousness unless another error had not been adopted to facilitate it…..immortality of the soul. This is another teaching that finds no place in the Bible. Again, it is borrowed from pagan concepts……most of what Christendom teaches does not originate from the Bible. They have skillfully woven these concepts into God’s word to create the tyrant that @St. SteVen speaks of.….a God to be feared in all the wrong ways. “Fear“ is a powerful weapon in the wrong hands and satan uses it skillfully.….cultivated ignorance is another….

Since punishment from God is designed to teach us something, with a view to correcting us…there is a purpose to punishment…repentance leading to forgiveness. What is the purpose of a “hell” of eternal torment” with no possible way to repent? That would be punishment for the sake of it….punishment from God is discipline with a purpose. If the punishment does not lead to correction, then what is the point of allowing incorrigible sinners to exist at all? To simply remove those who refuse God’s appeals to them whilst they are alive, no good is accomplished by punishing them after death. God will simply remove them from existence because they do not belong in his purpose for this earth and the reasons why he created man in the first place.

It’s all about obedience….and has been from day one. God has never said he would save “good” people….he is going to save humble and obedient ones.…those who can follow instruction without argument.
Us parents know how it feels when our children obey us without protest…..and then experience a good outcome because they listened and did as they were told..…but how frustrating it is to have them disobey and then suffer because they failed to understand that we had their best interests at heart. Yet the bad outcome itself teaches them the value of obedience, even if they do not understand that our motives are always good. Jehovah is the ultimate loving parent.
Thank you Aunty, for your support. :Happy:....and your brevity. :hmhehm Brevity which does have things, WE STILL DISAGREE on too. But I cool with that...:cool:
 

Aunty Jane

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Thank you Aunty, for your support. :Happy:....and your brevity. :hmhehm Brevity which does have things, WE STILL DISAGREE on too. But I cool with that...:cool:
Brevity is not my forte as the readers here are well aware…..I am a teacher, and brevity loses all but the essence of the truth…essence is a mere concentrated fraction of something…..I want the whole story so that I can fit everything into the big picture with no blank spaces. It is all one story after all….
 
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Carl Emerson

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I hope we're caught up here Carl, cause I can go on and on and on. Let's don't, if all you want to do is defend where you are. I've been there. And I will never go back. Love you bro. We would be shoulder to shoulder if this was about Fundamentals being against us CRAZIMATICS. :hmhehm
I was hoping to explore it a bit and better understand your position.
 

Carl Emerson

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I obviously did attract a lot of ugly responses...WE always do. But in your heart of hearts...don't you agree that Hitler was a tyrant? In my heart of hearts, my God isn't the God of orthodoxy. And my view of God isn't a tyrant. He isn't doing something that's worse than Hitler in our opinion.


I had to go back to look. Are you wanting a response to your testimony where you said ;


If that's the case, I can't honestly say I've been "speechless for hours". But I can say I have had enough supernatural encounterS, that have left me in 'AWE' of Him for decades. :innocent: I hope that counts. ;)


I went and read the whole chapter. And I'm still not sure just what dialogue are you referring to?

But as for God being just. Yes, I believe he is just. As for Sodom AND Gomorrah's judgment....what was it? According to nominal translations of the bible ETERNAL FIRE?

JUD 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of ETERNAL FIRE.

Steven had a thread, or maybe just a post recently, pointing out the FACT that where is 'the eternal fire' judgment of Sodom today? It isn't still burning, is it?

And as for our just God, what does He say concerning how the DAY OF JUDGMENT is going to be for for Sodom and Gomorrah?

MAT 10:15 Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

And just 'what town' is "that town"?

MAT 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans,
6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



I'm more concerned with what God's plan for 'the end' was, 'from the beginning'. I'm more concerned with that than I'm concerned with our misunderstandings of His temporal judgments in BETWEEN the BEGINNING and the END.

I hope we're caught up here Carl, cause I can go on and on and on. Let's don't, if all you want to do is defend where you are. I've been there. And I will never go back. Love you bro. We would be shoulder to shoulder if this was about Fundamentals being against us CRAZIMATICS. :hmhehm

I understand you don't want to explore the issue, can you just confirm what you believe.

I am assuming you have concluded there is a place of punishment for the wicked but it is for a limited time and all who end up there will see the light so to speak and be eternally reconciled - Is this a fair summary ?
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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I understand you don't want to explore the issue, can you just confirm what you believe.

I am assuming you have concluded there is a place of punishment for the wicked but it is for a limited time and all who end up there will see the light so to speak and be eternally reconciled - Is this a fair summary ?
:watching and waiting:
 
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Hillsage

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I understand you don't want to explore the issue, can you just confirm what you believe.

I am assuming you have concluded there is a place of punishment for the wicked but it is for a limited time and all who end up there will see the light so to speak and be eternally reconciled - Is this a fair summary ?
Dear brother, I absolutely would love to explore the issue. But it is not something I want to come between us if there is no change of mind on your part. I wish everyone knew WHY I believe. But most come to the table with one or two spirits. One is a religious spirit, and the other is an unteachable spirit. It doesn't take much to discern those who are here to just argue for their 'belief'. Trouble is I HAD learned AND taught the same beliefs of them, who now want to 'teach me' where I am wrong. HELLLLLO!!! ;)

As to your question; Absolutely God punishes. He started in the Garden and it will end in the "AGES TO COME", I believe.

I want to say, I lump your use of the term "the wicked" into the same 'letter of the law' that was in effect in the last age of the OLD COVENANT. If you break even one commandment you've broken them all". Stole a piece of gum, or the Mona Lisa....you're a THIEF you sinner.

JAM 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

Next real point;

Many believers can quote Eph 2:8, 9
EPH 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I don't consider GRACE as a greasy cover up of our sins which most of the church's definition supports, IMO. That definition being "UNDESERVED FAVOR". I believe that GRACE is the supernatural POWER to achieve what God's truth demands. And that power FIRST comes when we come to 'the faith'. We believe because God spoke the RHEMA/word of FAITH to us and we HEARD the gospel for the first time.....no matter how many times we heard it preached. And if He doesn't give you 'the faith of a WORD proceeding from HIS mouth'....any "salvation" you may think you got, may have been more emotional than spiritual. Some evangelists are such 'talented talkers' they could get a rock to accept Jesus.

But let me keep this short....because I know that if I put a big long detailed UR diatribe teaching down here, and you end up seeing 15 errors along the way, you can never respond to a rat's nest of errors. So we'll go slow and bite sized, hopefully.

Now I'm going to end my 2:8 verse with Eph 2;7

EPH 2:7* That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

The question now is; TO WHOM is God going to show his SAVING GRACE (which we received in this age) to ,in the AGES TO COME? The church thinks if you don't do it here with at least your last dying breath you'll never have another chance. But according to these two verses, you know what God showed me personally one day? NOT EVEN BLASPHEMY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT is unforgivable.

KJV MAT 12:32* And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world/aion, neither in the world/aion to come.
"world"
is a very deceptive KJV translation.

RSV MAT 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

KJV MAR 3:29* But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath "never" forgiveness,/aion but is in danger (??) of
eternal/
aionios damnation.
"never" is not in the Greek. The word is 'aion'/age

KJV LUK 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Well, that sounds 'dammed bad', for sure. But there's a bit of twisting of the infallible bible, by the indoctrinated translators here.

YLT MAT 12:32* And whoever may speak a word against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven to him, but whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming.
YLT MAR 3:29* but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness - to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;'
YLT LUK 12:10 and every one whoever shall say a word to the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven to him, but to him who to the Holy Spirit did speak evil,
it shall not be forgiven.

IOW according to LUKE God IS going to punish Holy Spirit blasphemers. How long? 2 ages for sure. But, concerning Eph 2:7; what age/aion were they in when Jesus spoke, before the crucifixion???? Because Eph was written About 60 years after Jesus made his Matt Mark Luke GOSPEL'S judgments. But even if there were only the 2 ages, there was an age to finish punishing a blasphemer of the Holy Spirit.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Dear brother, I absolutely would love to explore the issue. But it is not something I want to come between us if there is no change of mind on your part. I wish everyone knew WHY I believe. But most come to the table with one or two spirits. One is a religious spirit, and the other is an unteachable spirit. It doesn't take much to discern those who are here to just argue for their 'belief'. Trouble is I HAD learned AND taught the same beliefs of them, who now want to 'teach me' where I am wrong. HELLLLLO!!! ;)

As to your question; Absolutely God punishes. He started in the Garden and it will end in the "AGES TO COME", I believe.

I want to say, I lump your use of the term "the wicked" into the same 'letter of the law' that was in effect in the last age of the OLD COVENANT. If you break even one commandment you've broken them all". Stole a piece of gum, or the Mona Lisa....you're a THIEF you sinner.

JAM 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.

Next real point;

Many believers can quote Eph 2:8, 9
EPH 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I don't consider GRACE as a greasy cover up of our sins which most of the church's definition supports, IMO. That definition being "UNDESERVED FAVOR". I believe that GRACE is the supernatural POWER to achieve what God's truth demands. And that power FIRST comes when we come to 'the faith'. We believe because God spoke the RHEMA/word of FAITH to us and we HEARD the gospel for the first time.....no matter how many times we heard it preached. And if He doesn't give you 'the faith of a WORD proceeding from HIS mouth'....any "salvation" you may think you got, may have been more emotional than spiritual. Some evangelists are such 'talented talkers' they could get a rock to accept Jesus.

But let me keep this short....because I know that if I put a big long detailed UR diatribe teaching down here, and you end up seeing 15 errors along the way, you can never respond to a rat's nest of errors. So we'll go slow and bite sized, hopefully.

Now I'm going to end my 2:8 verse with Eph 2;7

EPH 2:7* That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

The question now is; TO WHOM is God going to show his SAVING GRACE (which we received in this age) to ,in the AGES TO COME? The church thinks if you don't do it here with at least your last dying breath you'll never have another chance. But according to these two verses, you know what God showed me personally one day? NOT EVEN BLASPHEMY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT is unforgivable.

KJV MAT 12:32* And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world/aion, neither in the world/aion to come.
"world"
is a very deceptive KJV translation.

RSV MAT 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

KJV MAR 3:29* But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath "never" forgiveness,/aion but is in danger (??) of
eternal/
aionios damnation.
"never" is not in the Greek. The word is 'aion'/age

KJV LUK 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Well, that sounds 'dammed bad', for sure. But there's a bit of twisting of the infallible bible, by the indoctrinated translators here.

YLT MAT 12:32* And whoever may speak a word against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven to him, but whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming.
YLT MAR 3:29* but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness - to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;'
YLT LUK 12:10 and every one whoever shall say a word to the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven to him, but to him who to the Holy Spirit did speak evil,
it shall not be forgiven.

IOW according to LUKE God IS going to punish Holy Spirit blasphemers. How long? 2 ages for sure. But, concerning Eph 2:7; what age/aion were they in when Jesus spoke, before the crucifixion???? Because Eph was written About 60 years after Jesus made his Matt Mark Luke GOSPEL'S judgments. But even if there were only the 2 ages, there was an age to finish punishing a blasphemer of the Holy Spirit.

Interesting is that you quote YLT...

I understand that the author was excommunicated for Blasphemy !!!

You might see this as a confirmation ??? :contemplate:
 

Carl Emerson

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I just checked Nestles Greek for Mark 3:29... the sin being spoken of is eternal in the Greek.

But Hey - you have your journey and I have mine.

Ultimately St Peter wont have a theology test at the gate.

What I will say is that the quest of knowledge is the oldest trick that Satan uses to deceive.

We must all surrender our desire to know - then we will be taught of Him.

I have simplified my faith down to what He wants me to do today.

We agree on a lot of stuff - Praise God for that !!!
 

Carl Emerson

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Does He tell you to post on the internet everyday?

No I am often too busy.

Seriously though I have waited 40 years to speak of what I have learned and CF has my testimony, I am privileged to help folks and pray for them as He leads.

Tomorrow I am working at the University so prob's wont be here.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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:watching and waiting:
I hope you didn't finish your popcorn before I posted. :p

Question, as to your signature line?


How would you prove it....should I ask....for proof? :hmhehm
Well, blushsmiley.gif ...... I could provide a smiley_photo.gif ... but trust you are too much of a gentleman to ask for one....

But I also am prepared to swear under perjury rules and as God is my witness praying_hard_smiley.gif that I am

born that way, and will die that way....
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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I just checked Nestles Greek for Mark 3:29... the sin being spoken of is eternal in the Greek.

But Hey - you have your journey and I have mine.

Ultimately St Peter wont have a theology test at the gate.

What I will say is that the quest of knowledge is the oldest trick that Satan uses to deceive.

Not to jump into the middle of this but there are a couple of things I want to know.

You say "quest of knowledge is the oldest trick that Satan uses to deceive."

Then please explain what is meant by 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV... not my first choice)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

or 2 Timothy 3:14
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

Do you think that the author of 2 Timothy was under Satanic influence?

I freely admit to studying and searching out "unfamiliar" things so when you brought up YLT and suggested he had been excommunicated..

I, Being unfamiliar with YLT , did a mini... not deep dive to know something about this translation and
boy.... first thing out of the gate came Ellen G Whites writing on Youngs Literal Translation where she wrote...
" DescriptionYoung's Literal Translation of the Bible is fundamentally different from other, more common translations in that the YLT aims for strict adherence to the literal meaning of the original Hebrew or Greek text. Therefore, for example, many passages are written in present tense where traditional versions would be past tense. Originally published in 1862, the most recent revision was made in 1898, after Young's death."

Coming from Mrs White is a big red flag to me but I trudged on....

And in my curiosity I looked at how he wrote Gen 1:1 to see the difference.... There is major hic cup here because he wrote...

1 In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth --

then Gen 2: 3

3 And God blesseth the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making.

then 2 Tim 2:15 where he wrote

15 be diligent to present thyself approved to God -- a workman irreproachable, rightly dividing the word of the truth;

And Mark 6:16 16 he who hath believed, and hath been baptized, shall be saved; and he who hath not believed, shall be condemned.

I will finish by posting what Got Questions says.


Young’s Literal Translation of the Bible was first translated in 1862 by Robert Young, a Scottish publisher who was self-taught and proficient in various ancient languages. Young also compiled Young’s Analytical Concordance and Concise Critical Comments on the New Testament. A revised version of the YLT was published in 1887 and a new revised version in 1898, a year after Young’s death.

Young’s Literal Translation - Translation method
Young’s Literal Translation is an extremely literal translation that attempts to preserve the tense and word usage as found in the original Greek and Hebrew writings. Young was especially concerned that many English translations changed the tenses of Greek and Hebrew verbs, and he insisted on using the present tense in many places in which other translations use the past tense, particularly in narratives. Young’s Literal Translation also consistently renders the Hebrew Tetragrammaton (divine name) throughout the Old Testament as "Jehovah," instead of the traditional practice of representing the Tetragrammaton in English as "LORD" in all capitals.

Young’s Literal Translation - Pros and Cons
Young’s Literal Translation is very fitly named. It very likely is the most strictly literal English translation ever developed. The literal renderings of the verb tenses are especially unique and can be quite valuable in studying God’s Word. Aspects that are usually only clear to those who can study the original Greek are clarified in the YLT. The strictly literal translation method can make Young’s Literal Translation somewhat difficult to read and in some instances very unnatural sounding in English.

Young’s Literal Translation - Sample Verses
John 1:1, 14 – “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;” “And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.”

John 3:16 – “for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.”

John 8:58 – “Jesus said to them, `Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham’s coming -- I am;'”

Ephesians 2:8-9 – “by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift, not of works, that no one may boast;”

Titus 2:13 – “waiting for the blessed hope and manifestation of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ,”

Okay... carry on... tipping_hat_smiley.gif

thanks for hearing me out.

We must all surrender our desire to know - then we will be taught of Him.

I have simplified my faith down to what He wants me to do today.

We agree on a lot of stuff - Praise God for that !!!
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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Depends is descriptively true.

It would have to be based on what kind of questioning. IOW... if you were like the woman being questioned a couple years ago, from somewhere in the south about her faith... her answer was a simple "Well, I am not Jewish so I guess I am Christian.

Totally clueless on anything.

If that woman, came unarmed, into ANY of the current religious "Christian " forums with the hopes of learning what being a Christian means... I can see that woman , the next time she would be asked saying something like
I am not anything. And she would be accurate... because these conversations are not for the faint of heart.

Biblically we have been cautioned to not be unequally yoked .

My one aunt married a Jewish guy when she was 20 something... she now passed at 96.

Raised to be a solid Roman Catholic... Catholic grade school and church at least once a week....

As far as I know she died with no belief.

Thirty years ago, at a family gathering ... I was not in the room... the talk was something religious.

My dad simply said that he, for one, was very glad Jesus had died for his sins.

And the aunt, and maybe her new husband (The Jewish one died) and I dont know if anyone else laughed.

I had a Jewish male friend who had married a Catholic girl. I know nothing of her beliefs ( she died 10 years ago... and the kids were not brought up with anything other then loving Christmas) but my friend was once a therapist for a south Miami diocese.. told me one day he believe in Jesus that he was real... but then spoiled it with a "and maybe even Son of God" So another mixed marriage all messed up.

So can you end up as an atheist.... probably... given the right circumstances when Christianity is the subject.
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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Yes.
Is there a connection between questioning and unbelief?

/
I hope you get some other opinions but I would say if you are questioning because you want to understand before accepting..( say a jump from Islam, or Jewish, or RCC to Protestant) I do not see unbelief in that.

However if you are questioning because you have developed some doubt then I would say that can and will lead to unbelief.

There is diversity within the Christian Faith from denomination to denomination. A lot of folk go church hopping hoping to find what fills their personal beliefs.

There is diversity within certain denominations too.

Ok folks... looking to read your ideas :watching and waiting:
 
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