Typical questions people ask about the Olivet Discourse.

[TribulationSigns]

OT Law is what John meant.

You have no clues.

I am reacting to your claim that the Olivet discourse has nothing at all to do with Jews in the Middle East

It is true.

in light of the fact that Jesus explicitly mentions Jews in the Middle East

Nope. You may think Christ was talking to Jews but You got the wrong Jews because he was prophesied to His New Testament congregation, the spiritual Jews in spiritual Judea. Get that part right first, CanyandZoe.

, specifically Jews living in Jerusalem who may need to travel on a Sabbath to escape the destruction of the city and the temple, both located in the Middle East.

Another proof that many people like you do not understand what winter and Sabbath Christ talked about here. But first here is the context:
Mat 24:16-21
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
(17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
(18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
(19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
(20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
(21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Christ is talking about HIS NEW TESTAMENT CONGREGATION here during the Great Tribulation PRIOR to the Second Coming. In God's eyes, the church is symbolically Judaea and His Elect the spiritual Jews here. This is who the Lord prophesied to. Not to Jews in the Middle East like your carnal mind thinks. At that time, God warns His Elect in unfaithful congregation to come out of it and not take anything out of it because of abominations. Christ in Matthew 24 has told believers to flee from that house and that it is woe unto them that give suck. Those that give suck is a phrase signifying the ministers of the church whose job it is to spiritually feed the children. This is taken from the prophecy of Lamentations. You might "carefully" compare scripture with scripture to understand exactly who this passage refers to. Verse 19 clearly refers to the unsaved of God's house who will be under judgment. This is famine IN THE CHURCH. They have not fed the children and they die of starvation and thirst. There is no way this refers to a woe to the election.

Lamentations 4:1-6

• "How is the gold become dim! how is the most fine gold changed! the stones of the sanctuary are poured out in the top of every street.
• The precious sons of Zion, comparable to fine gold, how are they esteemed as earthen pitchers, the work of the hands of the potter!
• Even the sea monsters draw out the breast, they give suck to their young ones: the daughter of my people is become cruel, like the ostriches in the wilderness.
• The tongue of the sucking child cleaveth to the roof of his mouth for thirst: the young children ask bread, and no man breaketh it unto them.
• They that did feed delicately are desolate in the streets: they that were brought up in scarlet embrace dunghills.
• For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her."

Woe unto the professed Christians (unsaved) in the congregation, and encouragement to the saved Elect to depart out from the midst of them. Selah. Now about the meaning of the winter and the sabbath:

Mat 24:16-20
(20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Winter in Scripture is the time of hardship, deprivation and storms where there is a lack of stores in the field. It is a time when all the harvest is done and there can be no more increase. Remember that I explained that the Great Tribulation will not come until God finishes building his church FIRST by sealing His Elect through the testimony of Two Witnesses? There will be no more salvation after this. It will be a time when the work in the field has ended. Like the Sabbath, it signifies a time of rest, when the earth rests from its work, so like the Sabbath in Matthew 24, it also SYMBOLIZES a time when salvation has ended on Earth and there can be no more work in the field. There is no more fruits of the field to harvest. It is the time when no man can work to bring an increase (of Elect) because God has secured all of His Elect BEFORE Satan can be loosened upon the New Testament congregation as a judgment! Selah.

Song of Solomon 2:11

• "For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;"

Here God is illustrating that the rain of the winter storms is past. The time of privation and hardship is gone, and with summer comes flowers and new life. But winter preceding it is illustrated as tempest, storm, trouble, a time when life is dormant. That's why Christ in Matthew 24, warned, "pray our flight be not in winter."

Jeremiah 8:20

• "The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved."

This is what being talked about! A period when time has run out for man to be delivered or saved. Pray that man's flight from Judea is not at a time when salvation has ended and no man can work. Because if we are not saved then (Revelation 7:3), we will be under judgement and wrath of God. This is why you need to spiritually UNDERSTAND why the Saints (Elects of the New Testament) have to be sealed "BEFORE" this time of the great fall and desolation of the Church that Matthew 24 speaks of:

Rev 7:3
(3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Spiritual Discerned! Don't have it? Go ahead and sit in the sands of the Middle East among the blind premillennialists hoping for physical fulfillment in a country called "Israel." Both Preterists and Premillennialists are looking at the wrong place and the wrong timing.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You have no clues.

Yes I do and they come directly from the text. Refer to post #312

Nope. You may think Christ was talking to Jews but You got the wrong Jews because he was prophesied to His New Testament congregation, the spiritual Jews in spiritual Judea.

No. Look again. Jesus gave the Olivet Discourse privately to his disciples while resting on Mount Olivet, which is why it is called "The Olivet Discourse." Jesus answers two questions raised by his disciples after he announced that the temple was going to be destroyed.

Get that part right first, CanyandZoe.


Another proof that many people like you do not understand what winter and Sabbath Christ talked about here. But first here is the context:
Mat 24:16-21
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
(17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
(18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
(19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
(20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
(21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Christ is talking about HIS NEW TESTAMENT CONGREGATION here during the Great Tribulation PRIOR to the Second Coming.

Okay, but it doesn't follow that since he is talking to his New Testament Congregation that he isn't also talking ABOUT the destruction of a Jewish temple and the judgment of Israel. Both can be true at the same time.

In God's eyes, the church is symbolically Judaea and His Elect the spiritual Jews here.

I disagree. You have no scriptural evidence that Jesus was talking symbolically or that the term "Judea" symbolically refers to the Church.

Instead of attempting to understand what Jesus said, it looks like you applied your creative mind to make up stuff.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yes I do and they come directly from the text. Refer to post #312

That was your response to Coventatee. And still incorrect. Nothing to do with Jews of the first century.

No. Look again. Jesus gave the Olivet Discourse privately to his disciples while resting on Mount Olivet, which is why it is called "The Olivet Discourse." Jesus answers two questions raised by his disciples after he announced that the temple was going to be destroyed.

LOL. No, The stones of the building that Christ talked about in Matthew 24:1-2 is NOT LITERAL STONES! The stones are PEOPLE, representing the Old Testament congregation that was falling. Have you forgot (or lack understanding) what Christ prophesied about them?
Joh 2:18-21
(18) Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.

Like you, the Jews thought Christ was talking about literal building and stones but he was talking about His Body which His people represents! It is HIS congregation that was falling and in three days Christ rebuilt it and this time the New Testament congregation represents Him! Selah!

Okay, but it doesn't follow that since he is talking to his New Testament Congregation that he isn't also talking ABOUT the destruction of a Jewish temple and the judgment of Israel. Both can be true at the same time.

THat is why you are blind to what Christ talked about. Like the Jews in first century, the premillennialists all thought Christ was talking about a physical Jewish building that need to be destroyed. Absurd!

I disagree. You have no scriptural evidence that Jesus was talking symbolically or that the term "Judea" symbolically refers to the Church.

Yeah yeah yeah... You don't want to hear the truth, you want to hear TRADITIONAL THINGS about Israel. You don't like what I say about Judaea, you want to hear the fables about the Jewish nation coming back to Christ. That is the whole point of my speaking here on this subject. That there are those who want to hear smooth things, what they have been taught, what they like to hear. That is the whole point of this message. Judgment upon God's rebellious house that only wants to hear what it wats to hear. And it is not always the Catholics or the Dispensationalists, but today, it is those of the traditional churches as well. They despise the Word and their trust in the perversion of it. Write it down!
Isaiah 30:8-13

• "Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
• That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
• Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
• Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
• Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
• Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant."

Oh yes, this is the reason for the fall of the Church. Not simple confusion, but Deception, strong delusion, because the people would not receive the love of truth, but had pleasure (liked, delighted in) their own unrighteous doings. Selah!

Instead of attempting to understand what Jesus said, it looks like you applied your creative mind to make up stuff.

Creative mind? How about Spiritual discernment per God's Word?

Okay, let's test your doctrine right here then. Read the following verses and answer the questions to see if you know what the Lord talked about:

Mat 24:11-20
(11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
(12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
(13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
(14) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
(17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
(18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
(19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
(20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

1.) Who are the false prophets? How will they deceive many?
2.) What iniquity that shall increase? And why?
3.) What is abomination of desolation spoke of Daniel?
4.) Where is the holy place (be aware that only those who readeth, let him understand, it is not what you think it is!)
5.) Where is Judaea?
6.) Where are the mountains?
7.) What is a housetop? Why can't one take anything out of his house? What thing?
8.) Where is the field that one need not return back to take clothes? What clothes is it?
9.) Who is the child? Why won't the child suck?
10.) What does winter refer to?
11.) what does sabbath day refer to?

Awaiting your "biblical" answers WITH Scripture. Do you know why? Because you have to compare Scripture with Scripture with the REST of the Bible instead of making assumptions based on verse itself that Christ was talking about Jews, temple, statue, Judea in the MIddle East, a mountain retreat, literal clothing, hungry children, snowy weather or sabbath rest. No, it requires spiritual understanding which is why Christ warned, "Whosever readeth, let him understanding).

Selah

 

[Davy]

That was your response to Coventatee. And still incorrect. Nothing to do with Jews of the first century.



LOL. No, The stones of the building that Christ talked about in Matthew 24:1-2 is NOT LITERAL STONES! The stones are PEOPLE, representing the Old Testament congregation that was falling. Have you forgot (or lack understanding) what Christ prophesied about them?

....

Wow! Now that post above, that's some BOGUS stuff!


Brethren in Christ, the following is what Christ's Olivet discourse is about:

Christ's Olivet discourse is for His Church. (part of the 'foundation' of His Church is who He was speaking to which was with Him on the Mount of Olives.)

Jesus was giving the 7 main SIGNS of the very END leading up to His future coming, which He commanded His servants (the Church) to be WATCHING.

Those same 7 SIGNS He gave are the SEALS of Revelation 6.

The final SIGN Jesus gave there is that of His future coming and gathering of His Church, AFTER the tribulation.

One of Jesus' main warnings in His Olivet discourse is the coming of the pseudo-Christ at the END of this world, to JERUSALEM working great signs and wonders and miracles that IF it were possible, would deceive even His very elect. That false one will involve the future building of the Jew's 3rd temple in Jerusalem, and help them establish old covenant temple worship again, with animal sacrifices. That false one then will later end the daily sacrifices and instead setup an IDOL abomination in that new temple, and demand all bow in worship to it (i.e., the "image of the beast" of Rev.13).

Therefore, anyone... telling you that Jesus' Olivet discourse SIGNS were history, are telling LIES and actually represent Satan's servants here on earth. Satan's servants especially want to point us away... from what Lord Jesus revealed about JERUSALEM for the end of this world. So imagine whatever kind of doctrine would 'try' to do that, and you can count on that being a lie from the children of darkness.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Wow! Now that post above, that's some BOGUS stuff!

Wow indeed. Sounds like you are like the Jews who thought Christ was talking about physical temples and stones instead of them as the Lord's congregation. Not surprised. I believe I already discussed this with you before. Let me know how the "signs" work out for you.

 

[Davy]

Wow indeed. Sounds like you are like the Jews who thought Christ was talking about physical temples and stones instead of them as the Lord's congregation. Not surprised. I believe I already discussed this with you before. Let me know how the "signs" work out for you.

No, I'm not Jewish. And I'm a Protestant Christian with ancestors that had roots in old France.

To infer that Jesus was talking about people as those stones in His prophecy of not one stone atop another in His Olivet discourse, is just totally WHACKED.

 

[ewq1938]

According to John, the group of people who will face the wrath of the dragon have two distinct characteristics: 1) they keep the commandments of God, and 2) they have the testimony of Jesus Christ. These two characteristics are different from each other. If John was referring to Christians, his mention of "keeping the commandments of God" would be unnecessary. Christians are those who keep the commandments of Jesus Christ, but Jewish Christians are those who keep both the commandments of Jesus Christ and the commandments of God. Hence, John is talking about Jewish Christians.

John is speaking of Christians of any race who follow the NT commandments of God through belief in Christ. The old law rotted away with the old covenant long ago.

 

[covenantee]

Okay, as long as we don't force an incorrect interpretation of the NT onto the OT, which is the habit of Amillennialism.

The far greater issue is premil's incessant attempts to exhume the decayed vanished OT carcass (Hebrews 8:13) and replace the NT with it (aka replacement ideology).

 

[TribulationSigns]

No, I'm not Jewish.

That is not what I meant. I was saying that you were as blind as the Jews when Christ said it.

And I'm a Protestant Christian with ancestors that had roots in old France.

So? What does this have to do with the price of bananas?

To infer that Jesus was talking about people as those stones in His prophecy of not one stone atop another in His Olivet discourse, is just totally WHACKED.

The Pharisees thought too! But guess what they are a bit smarter than you when they realize that Christ was talking about them.

Mat 21:42-45
(42) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
(43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
(44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
(45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

The builders of the Old Testament congregation. Not physical stones. Else the New Testament congregations must also be made of physical stones where Christ is a corner stone.

 

[Gottservant]

What do you mean by "hot" and "cold"? I haven't heard this expression used in this context before.

Jesus asked us to be "hot or cold" (Revelation 2) - He wouldn't do that without being "Hot or Cold" Himself!

 

[CadyandZoe]

The far greater issue is premil's incessant attempts to exhume the decayed vanished OT carcass (Hebrews 8:13) and replace the NT with it (aka replacement ideology).

The OT is not inspired scripture?

 

[MatthewG]

Was Jesus speaking plainly to the 4 disciples who asked him about the end of the age, and was Jesus speaking of a double prophecy when he comes down to that generation of that day must see those things come to pass?

 

[covenantee]

The OT is not inspired scripture?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV​

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Davy]

The OT is not inspired scripture?

 

[Davy]

John is speaking of Christians of any race who follow the NT commandments of God through belief in Christ. The old law rotted away with the old covenant long ago.

Yeah, and anytime Scripture refers to one with the Testimony of Jesus Christ, it means a believer on Jesus Christ and part of His Church.

 

[CadyandZoe]

2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV​

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Okay. Let me ask you a question, is the Olivet Discourse based on the OT or did Jesus give new revelation?

 

[covenantee]

Okay. Let me ask you a question, is the Olivet Discourse based on the OT or did Jesus give new revelation?

Jesus refers to Daniel.

Is that "based on the OT"?

Jesus issues predictions associated with the destruction of Jerusalem found nowhere else.

Is that "new revelation"?

 

[Jay Ross]

Jesus issues predictions associated with the destruction of Jerusalem found nowhere else.

That is not quite true.

God did tell Israel through Solomon that He would cause Israel to be scattered all over the earth because of their idolatrous worship.

This is what God said He would do if Irael continue with their idolatrous worship of other gods.

2 Chron 7:19-22: - "19 But if you turn away and forsake the statutes and commandments I have set before you, and if you go off to serve and worship other gods, 20 then I will uproot Israel from the soil I have given them, and I will banish from My presence this temple I have sanctified for My Name. I will make it an object of scorn and ridicule among all the peoples.

21 And when this temple has become a heap of rubble, all who pass by it will be appalled and say, ‘Why has the LORD done such a thing to this land and to this temple?’ 22And others will answer, ‘Because they have forsaken the LORD, the God of their fathers, who brought them out of the land of Egypt, and have embraced other gods, worshiping and serving them—because of this, He has brought all this disaster upon them.’ ”

The city of Jerusalem was well and truly trampled by the Roman Empire in 70 AD.

Your fact cheat sheet does not tell you about these verses with respect to Jerusalem.

 

[Davy]

Okay. Let me ask you a question, is the Olivet Discourse based on the OT or did Jesus give new revelation?

It is a new revelation linked with the Seals of Revelation 6. That is why the rider on the white horse starts off in Rev.6, because don't allow any man to deceive you is Christ's 1st Sign He gave in His Olivet discourse.

And Christ's Olivet discourse Signs are the 6 Seal events of Rev.6. Anyone telling you different is trying to hide that fact. The last Sign Jesus gave with His future coming on the 6th Seal is also the last Sign Jesus gave about His coming in His Olivet discourse.

 

[covenantee]

That is not quite true.

God did tell Israel through Solomon that He would cause Israel to be scattered all over the earth because of their idolatrous worship.

This is what God said He would do if Irael continue with their idolatrous worship of other gods.

2 Chron 7:19-22: - "19 But if you turn away and forsake the statutes and commandments I have set before you, and if you go off to serve and worship other gods, 20 then I will uproot Israel from the soil I have given them, and I will banish from My presence this temple I have sanctified for My Name. I will make it an object of scorn and ridicule among all the peoples.

21 And when this temple has become a heap of rubble, all who pass by it will be appalled and say, ‘Why has the LORD done such a thing to this land and to this temple?’ 22And others will answer, ‘Because they have forsaken the LORD, the God of their fathers, who brought them out of the land of Egypt, and have embraced other gods, worshiping and serving them—because of this, He has brought all this disaster upon them.’ ”

The city of Jerusalem was well and truly trampled by the Roman Empire in 70 AD.

Your fact cheat sheet does not tell you about these verses with respect to Jerusalem.

Matthew 24
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Not found in the OT relating to 70 AD.