They both refer to the same peoples of faith and obedience. In the OT, it was the faithful obedient subset of saints in Israel who did not "bow the knee to Baal". In the OT, it is the faithful obedient subset of saints of the Church in the world. Each is declared to be a holy nation, the OT saints in Exodus 19:6, and the NT saints in 1 Peter 2:5,9.
Typical questions people ask about the Olivet Discourse.
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My younger sister's middle name is Gay, meaning happy, carefree. That's what it meant 50 years ago when she was named that, but that's not what it means now. Now it means homosexual.
"Elect" in Jesus' day meant Israel. Decades later it was applied to the church. But that doesn't mean that the elect was the Church when Jesus said it any more than Gay meant homosexual when my sister was named that.
Much love!
"Elect" in Jesus' day meant Israel. Decades later it was applied to the church. But that doesn't mean that the elect was the Church when Jesus said it any more than Gay meant homosexual when my sister was named that.
Much love!
I'm not planning to argue with anyone, though you may wish to argue with me. I'm just sharing how language works. Language is how the Holy Spirit is speaking to us in the Bible.
Some find it necessary to suspend this truth about language because it doesn't fit their doctrine, but that's not my issue, it's theirs.
Much love!
Right, So when Jesus said the Elect, He was speaking of the chosen nation, as opposed to the gentiles.
Much love!
The only "chosen nation" today is God's faithful obedient saints of the Church, Gentile and Jew alike.
No others.
Gathering the Chosen Nation:
Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Joel 3:1 KJV
For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Gathering of the rest of the Nations (Gentiles) :
Matthew 25:31-33 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Joel 3:2 KJV
I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
Much love!
Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Joel 3:1 KJV
For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Gathering of the rest of the Nations (Gentiles) :
Matthew 25:31-33 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Joel 3:2 KJV
I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
Much love!
I could tell you my own thoughts about it to some degree or another, was there anything that you did get to ask anyone, what questions and what were some of the responses?
When they are doing that per what Matthew 24:32-26 is involving, it is pertaining to being possibly deceived by this. During the millennium, assuming it is still future, no one would be meaning it in that sense if He wa literally bodily present somewhere on the earth at the time. Clearly, per Matthew 24:32-26 He is nowhere on the earth at the time literally bodily present. Therefore, you can't use this as argument pertaining to a future millennium since not one thing involving verse 23-26 could possibly still be taking place after Christ has returned.
All of the above aside, the point still is, if anything recorded in the Discourse is involving events post 70 AD, it is then undeniably untrue that this generation passed away 2000 years ago since all things weren't fulfilled 2000 years ago if some of these events recorded in the Discourse are also involving time periods post 70 AD. Keeping in mind, Jesus clearly, thus plainly, thus undeniably, said all these things have to be fulfilled before this generation can pass away. All of what things? Obviously, meaning everything He predicted would take place in the meantime before He said what He said in regards to this generation not passing away until. It is then just a matter of using plain ole common sense to determine when He is meaning this generation passes away. Preterists throw common sense out the window altogether here in favor of their doctrines they place above all else.
I'm open to pretty much anything as long as it is at least logical and doesn't defy common sense. This generation passing away 2000 years ago is not logical and that it defies common sense. Therefore, I am simply not open to the idea that this generation passed away 2000 years ago, nor should anyone with good common sense be open to that idea.
Right, but that would only be true if there wasn’t free will during the millennium. In the millennium someone could claim that He is in the desert when He isn’t if they have free will.
If the only reason deception is happening today (as in claiming He is in the desert) is because Satan is loosed and the only reason deception will not happen during the millennium is because Satan is bound, then nobody has the free will to deceive. We know that can’t be the case because 1 John 1:8 says we can deceive ourselves.
For the most part people who believe in a future millennium also believe in free will, but for some reason they can’t explain why deception can’t happen in a millennium that has free will.
ewq1938
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Only Christians are shown as being victims of persecution in the GT. Jews of Judaism are unbelievers which makes them Gentiles like the rest of the world. Here is who shall be persecuted:
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
TribulationSigns
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No. Covenantee is right. The Elect is a remnant of Israel and the Church. The Elect from both the Old and New Testament are the Holy People. Together they are all ONE HOLY NATION and HOLY PEOPLE.
There are Two groups called "the elect", one after the flesh, and the other In Christ.
The elect after the flesh are those physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Chosen Nation, a designation describing a physically delineated group.
These were chosen by God from among the other nations.
The Elect in Christ are those who are baptized into Christ, a designation describing a spiritually delineated group.
Jesus is God's "elect servant", and all who are in Him share with Him what is His, including His election.
Much love!
The elect after the flesh are those physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Chosen Nation, a designation describing a physically delineated group.
These were chosen by God from among the other nations.
The Elect in Christ are those who are baptized into Christ, a designation describing a spiritually delineated group.
Jesus is God's "elect servant", and all who are in Him share with Him what is His, including His election.
Much love!
Numbers 25
9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.
Explain why those "chosen" ended up on the corpse pile.
People die, including when God judges them. This is, however, a separate matter from whether or not God chose a particular nation, Israel, which is well established in the Bible.
Much love!
You have a Bible . . . you can find that out. It still does not alter the fact that God chose a certain nation from among the others.
Much love!
Of course I know why, why do you assume these things?
Still, it doesn't change the fact of God having chosen Israel from among all the other nations. The Elect Nation, and the Gentile Nations.
Much love!
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