Who did God Predestinate?

[quietthinker]

Who did God Predestinate?​

'The Wonder of God' ...part 1, 2 & 3
What do you think?

The Wonder of God Forgiving Us - Ian Hartley

www.rediscoveringgod.ca

The Wonder of God Judging Us - Ian Hartley

www.rediscoveringgod.ca

 

[BlessedPeace]

Who did God Predestinate?​

'The Wonder of God' ...part 1, 2 & 3
What do you think?

The Wonder of God Forgiving Us - Ian Hartley

www.rediscoveringgod.ca

The Wonder of God Judging Us - Ian Hartley

www.rediscoveringgod.ca

A bit long.
Would you provide us a synopsis?

 

[quietthinker]

A bit long.
Would you provide us a synopsis?

hmmmmm....ok, the wonder of God. A generosity that will warm the heart of any genuine seeker.
Make the effort....it made my heart sing.

 

[Robert Pate]

Who did God Predestinate? God predestinated Jesus to be the savior of the whole world. John 3:17. Jesus comes into the world to do for fallen man that which he cannot do for himself. We are accepted only in him and because of him.

 

[Phil .]

We see the words "Predestinate" in the Bible, Romans 8:29-30. Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:11. But it does not say who was predestinated. All that is says is "us" or "We". Who is the "us" and the "we?" Along comes John Calvin and says the "Us" and the "We" are people that believe in his doctrine of "Calvinism". So, we are led to believe that John Calvin is some sort of a prophet with a new doctrine.

There is nothing in the Old Testament about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. As a matter of fact the word "Predestinate" only appears in the New Testament four times. Mr. Calvin apparently believed that is enough to launch his newfound doctrine. Words like "Faith and "Believe" count for nothing. All that matters is predestination. Throughout the Bible we are warned of men that would pervert the truth of the Gospel.

Paul, who was a chosen apostle of Jesus Christ, said, "But though we or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached, let him be accursed" Galatians 1:8. There is nothing in John Calvins doctrine about Christ and his Gospel, the whole emphasis is about being predestinated, which has nothing to do with the Gospel and appears to be a false Gospel.

In honesty, and in accordance with direct experience, us and we are thoughts. That us and we are people is a secondary thought, potentially believed as well. If what’s being said is true, that there is nothing in the Old Testament, then there is no actuality of an Old Testament, as that would be some thing.

Foxes have dens, birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Foxes have dens, birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.

Yes, while he was out traveling around none of the inn keepers would let Jesus and His disciples rent rooms for fear of being kicked out of the synagogue

Lot of folks don't realize Jesus had a house.

Mark 2:1,2 (NASV)
When He [Jesus] had come back to Capernaum several days afterward; it was heard that He was at home. And many were gathered together, so that there was no longer room, not even near the door; and He was speaking to them.

Mark 2:13-15
And he went forth again by the sea side; and all the multitude resorted unto him, and he taught them.
And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.
And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in His house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

Alphaeus was following Jesus to Jesus' house... Jesus was not following Alphaeus to Alphaeus' house.

John 1:38,39
Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.

In Luke 9:58, and Matthew 8:20 when Jesus said He had no place to lay His head, He was obviously not in His hometown where He lived when he said this. Plus, the He had no favor among the religious jews who would have threatened those that supported Jesus so when He was out of his hometown ministering He would not have been able to rent a room for the evening in most places He visited around Israel.

Some of the disciples, apostles, had houses....

Matthew 8:14
And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

Mark 1:29-33
And forthwith, when they were come out of the synagogue, they entered into the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John.
But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.
And he came and took her by the hand, and lifted her up; and immediately the fever left her, and she ministered unto them.
And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.
And all the city was gathered together at the door.

Did Jesus own a home in Capernaum?
Many have the impression Jesus was an itinerant preacher, traveling from place to place around Galilee preaching the Gospel. However, there is a hint that early on Jesus owned His own house.

In Mark 2, we have the account of Jesus being at a house in Capernaum. So many people had gathered that a group of men were forced to cut a hole in the roof to lower their paralytic friend down to Jesus for healing.

But notice what Mark says in verse 1:

When He [Jesus] had come back to Capernaum several days afterward; it was heard that He was at home. And many were gathered together, so that there was no longer room, not even near the door; and He was speaking to them. (NASV)

It talks about this house being Jesus’ home. By the size of the crowd it was obvious Jesus was a bit of a celebrity in the city. This verse also suggests it was not the first time people had gathered at Jesus’ house, as people were waiting for Him to return.

We have a similar mention of Jesus’ home in John 1:38-43. This passage records Jesus visit with John the Baptist where he calls Jesus the Lamb of God. Two of John’s disciples (one being Andrew, Peter’s brother) asked Jesus where He was staying.

In verse 39, Jesus took the two disciples to His house, where they stayed for the rest of the day and perhaps even over night. It was during this visit that Andrew convinced Peter — who was also living in Capernaum (Mark 1:29) — to visit Jesus at His home.

We know from the Gospels that Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) but grew up in Nazareth with His parents (Luke 4:16). Matthew adds this tidbit:

And leaving Nazareth, He [Jesus] came and settled in Capernaum which is by the sea, in the region of Zebulun and Naphtaill. (Matthew 4:13 NASV).

At some point, Jesus moved to Capernaum. He would need a place to live, so he obtained a house or being a carpenter or more probably a stonemason (Mark 6:3) maybe even built His own. We are not told the specifics of Jesus’ living arrangements.

In his commentary, William Barclay has this to say about the Greek word “tekton” translated carpenter:

The word used for “carpenter” is [@tekton], meaning not a mere worker in wood. It means “a craftsman”, more than merely a joiner. In Homer the [@tekton] is said to build ships and houses and temples.

Matthew notes in verse 14 that Jesus’ move to Capernaum fulfilled an Old Testament prophecy (Isaiah 9:1-6) about the Messiah coming from this region. Matthew also adds in verse 17, that it was after His move to Capernaum, that Jesus began His ministry.

It appears from a statement made later, that Jesus eventually abandoned His house and traveled around Israel preaching the Gospel:

Jesus said to him, “The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.” (Matthew 8:20 NASV)

However, Jesus’ ministry basically started off as a simple home group in Capernaum. It was here that Jesus came in contact with four of his disciples — Levi (Mathew), Peter, James and John (Mark 1:29).

Shortly after his decision to follow Christ, Matthew had a party at his home (Mark 2:14-17) where he invited many of his coworkers — fellow tax-collectors — to meet Jesus and His disciples. This was possibly a going away party for Matthew, who Luke said left everything to follow Christ.

This party at Levi’s home may have marked the transition point, when Jesus moved from a house-based ministry to a national one.

But we see several times the group returned to Capernaum, which Matthew describes as “His [Jesus] own city” (Matthew 9:1). It is generally believed they probably stayed at Peter’s house, who we know was married and had his mother-in law staying with him (Matthew 8: 5, 14).

But in the end, Jesus would curse Capernaum because of the amount of time He invested in that community and the inhabitants refusal to repent:

And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day. 24 Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you.” (Matthew 11:23-24 NASV).

 

[Phil .]

Yes, while he was out traveling around none of the inn keepers would let Jesus and His disciples rent rooms for fear of being kicked out of the synagogue

Lot of folks don't realize Jesus had a house.

Mark 2:1,2 (NASV)
When He [Jesus] had come back to Capernaum several days afterward; it was heard that He was at home. And many were gathered together, so that there was no longer room, not even near the door; and He was speaking to them.

Mark 2:13-15
And he went forth again by the sea side; and all the multitude resorted unto him, and he taught them.
And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.
And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in His house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

Alphaeus was following Jesus to Jesus' house... Jesus was not following Alphaeus to Alphaeus' house.

John 1:38,39
Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.

In Luke 9:58, and Matthew 8:20 when Jesus said He had no place to lay His head, He was obviously not in His hometown where He lived when he said this. Plus, the He had no favor among the religious jews who would have threatened those that supported Jesus so when He was out of his hometown ministering He would not have been able to rent a room for the evening in most places He visited around Israel.

Some of the disciples, apostles, had houses....

Matthew 8:14
And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

Mark 1:29-33
And forthwith, when they were come out of the synagogue, they entered into the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John.
But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.
And he came and took her by the hand, and lifted her up; and immediately the fever left her, and she ministered unto them.
And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.
And all the city was gathered together at the door.

Did Jesus own a home in Capernaum?
Many have the impression Jesus was an itinerant preacher, traveling from place to place around Galilee preaching the Gospel. However, there is a hint that early on Jesus owned His own house.

In Mark 2, we have the account of Jesus being at a house in Capernaum. So many people had gathered that a group of men were forced to cut a hole in the roof to lower their paralytic friend down to Jesus for healing.

But notice what Mark says in verse 1:

When He [Jesus] had come back to Capernaum several days afterward; it was heard that He was at home. And many were gathered together, so that there was no longer room, not even near the door; and He was speaking to them. (NASV)

It talks about this house being Jesus’ home. By the size of the crowd it was obvious Jesus was a bit of a celebrity in the city. This verse also suggests it was not the first time people had gathered at Jesus’ house, as people were waiting for Him to return.

We have a similar mention of Jesus’ home in John 1:38-43. This passage records Jesus visit with John the Baptist where he calls Jesus the Lamb of God. Two of John’s disciples (one being Andrew, Peter’s brother) asked Jesus where He was staying.

In verse 39, Jesus took the two disciples to His house, where they stayed for the rest of the day and perhaps even over night. It was during this visit that Andrew convinced Peter — who was also living in Capernaum (Mark 1:29) — to visit Jesus at His home.

We know from the Gospels that Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) but grew up in Nazareth with His parents (Luke 4:16). Matthew adds this tidbit:

And leaving Nazareth, He [Jesus] came and settled in Capernaum which is by the sea, in the region of Zebulun and Naphtaill. (Matthew 4:13 NASV).

At some point, Jesus moved to Capernaum. He would need a place to live, so he obtained a house or being a carpenter or more probably a stonemason (Mark 6:3) maybe even built His own. We are not told the specifics of Jesus’ living arrangements.

In his commentary, William Barclay has this to say about the Greek word “tekton” translated carpenter:

The word used for “carpenter” is [@tekton], meaning not a mere worker in wood. It means “a craftsman”, more than merely a joiner. In Homer the [@tekton] is said to build ships and houses and temples.

Matthew notes in verse 14 that Jesus’ move to Capernaum fulfilled an Old Testament prophecy (Isaiah 9:1-6) about the Messiah coming from this region. Matthew also adds in verse 17, that it was after His move to Capernaum, that Jesus began His ministry.

It appears from a statement made later, that Jesus eventually abandoned His house and traveled around Israel preaching the Gospel:

Jesus said to him, “The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.” (Matthew 8:20 NASV)

However, Jesus’ ministry basically started off as a simple home group in Capernaum. It was here that Jesus came in contact with four of his disciples — Levi (Mathew), Peter, James and John (Mark 1:29).

Shortly after his decision to follow Christ, Matthew had a party at his home (Mark 2:14-17) where he invited many of his coworkers — fellow tax-collectors — to meet Jesus and His disciples. This was possibly a going away party for Matthew, who Luke said left everything to follow Christ.

This party at Levi’s home may have marked the transition point, when Jesus moved from a house-based ministry to a national one.

But we see several times the group returned to Capernaum, which Matthew describes as “His [Jesus] own city” (Matthew 9:1). It is generally believed they probably stayed at Peter’s house, who we know was married and had his mother-in law staying with him (Matthew 8: 5, 14).

But in the end, Jesus would curse Capernaum because of the amount of time He invested in that community and the inhabitants refusal to repent:

And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day. 24 Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you.” (Matthew 11:23-24 NASV).

More so, man does not fit into reality as all the animals do, as man is not technically -in- reality. In truth, neither in nor of this world.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

More so, man does not fit into reality as all the animals do, as man is not technically -in- reality. In truth, neither in nor of this world.

Thank you for that slab of meaningless gobblety gook

 

[JBO]

We see the words "Predestinate" in the Bible, Romans 8:29-30. Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:11. But it does not say who was predestinated.

It does say who was predestinated in verse 28. Specifically, it is they who love God. It is they who are called. Verses 29 and 30 then describe God's procedure for His calling them.

 

[Robert Pate]

It does say who was predestinated in verse 28. Specifically, it is they who love God. It is they who are called. Verses 29 and 30 then describe God's procedure for His calling them.

The devil has twisted your mind. There is no scripture in the Bible that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell.

The only one that was predestinated was Jesus Christ. He was predestinated to be the savior of the world.

 

[JBO]

The devil has twisted your mind. There is no scripture in the Bible that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell.

The only one that was predestinated was Jesus Christ. He was predestinated to be the savior of the world.

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined......

Those are obviously, according to verse 30, destined for heaven.

 

[Robert Pate]

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined......

Those are obviously, according to verse 30, destined for heaven.

Romans 8:29-30 is a Calvinist favorite. They believe that God looked into the future and determined who would be saved and who would be lost. They call it predestination. They believe that God predestinated people to be saved or to be lost. There is a problem with this. If this were true, which it is not, then who needs Jesus Christ. There is no scripture that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell.

Calvinism by passes Jesus Christ and his Gospel. It also by passes the judgment. No one needs to be judged if all has been predetermined before the foundation of the world. Worse yet, the doctrine of predestination is an attack on the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Jesus claims to be the savior of the whole world, John 3:17. To be the savior of the whole world Jesus would have to defeat sin, death and the Devil. Revelation 19:16 says, "He has on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King of Kings and Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

Who are those that are called according to his purpose? Romans 8:28. The Holy Spirit is in the world calling everyone to come to Christ. It is God's purpose that everyone will come to Christ, not just a few, 1 Peter 3:9. "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life" John 3:16. Not everyone wants to be a Christian, they are the lost.

Who did God foreknew? Romans 8:29. God foreknew that all that believed in his Son Jesus Christ would be conformed to the image of his Son Jesus Christ. No one is predestinated to heaven or to hell. The only one that was predestinated was Jesus Christ. Jesus was predestinated to be the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

 

[JBO]

Romans 8:29-30 is a Calvinist favorite. They believe that God looked into the future and determined who would be saved and who would be lost.

That is not quite true. The Calvinist believe that God simply chose, before creation and totally independent from anything having to do with the individual, but rather based only on his own "good pleasure" who He would select be among the "elect". They change the meaning of the Greek word προγινώσκω [proginōskō] to mean "pre-arranged." Thus, they proclaim, precisely opposite to what scripture actually says, that God's foreknowledge results from His predestination.

Scriptures says that God, even before the creation, looked into the future and saw who would love him. They are the ones that God foreknew. They are the ones who were destined, even before the creation, to be conformed to the image of His Son Jesus Christ. And those were called. And they were justified and glorified, meaning they were saved to be in heaven.

What Romans 6:28-30 says is that God called those who He knew, before the creation, who would love him. It describes in some detail that process and what would accrue to those who loved Him and were called, namely, that they would be justified and glorified.

 

[Robert Pate]

That is not quite true. The Calvinist believe that God simply chose, before creation and totally independent from anything having to do with the individual, but rather based only on his own "good pleasure" who He would select be among the "elect". They change the meaning of the Greek word προγινώσκω [proginōskō] to mean "pre-arranged." Thus, they proclaim, precisely opposite to what scripture actually says, that God's foreknowledge results from His predestination.

Scriptures says that God, even before the creation, looked into the future and saw who would love him. They are the ones that God foreknew. They are the ones who were destined, even before the creation, to be conformed to the image of His Son Jesus Christ. And those were called. And they were justified and glorified, meaning they were saved to be in heaven.

What Romans 6:28-30 says is that God called those who He knew, before the creation, who would love him. It describes in some detail that process and what would accrue to those who loved Him and were called, namely, that they would be justified and glorified.

Calvinism is blasphemy against God the Father, his Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. If Calvinism is true, then I don't want to go to heaven. The God of Calvinism is unjust, cruel and is a heartless tyrant.

 

[Behold]

God says...."if you are born again, you are pre-destined to be conformed INTO = the image of Christ"


Calvin decided this meant "God only calls some to be saved and refuses the rest".

He calls this "limited Atonement or pre-destined elect".

John Calvin made all this up. = Total Fabrication created by a Theologically insane Devil.

 

[Phil .]

Thank you for that slab of meaningless gobblety gook View attachment 41754

Disparaging is discordant & uneccesary.

 

[Robert Pate]

God says...."if you are born again, you are pre-destined to be conformed INTO = the image of Christ"


Calvin decided this meant "God only calls some to be saved and refuses the rest".

He calls this "limited Atonement or pre-destined elect".

John Calvin made all this up. = Total Fabrication created by a Theologically insane Devil.

He was only 27 years old and came out of Catholicism.

 

[Logikos]

We see the words "Predestinate" in the Bible, Romans 8:29-30. Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:11. But it does not say who was predestinated. All that is says is "us" or "We". Who is the "us" and the "we?" Along comes John Calvin and says the "Us" and the "We" are people that believe in his doctrine of "Calvinism". So, we are led to believe that John Calvin is some sort of a prophet with a new doctrine.

There is nothing in the Old Testament about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. As a matter of fact the word "Predestinate" only appears in the New Testament four times. Mr. Calvin apparently believed that is enough to launch his newfound doctrine. Words like "Faith and "Believe" count for nothing. All that matters is predestination. Throughout the Bible we are warned of men that would pervert the truth of the Gospel.

Paul, who was a chosen apostle of Jesus Christ, said, "But though we or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached, let him be accursed" Galatians 1:8. There is nothing in John Calvins doctrine about Christ and his Gospel, the whole emphasis is about being predestinated, which has nothing to do with the Gospel and appears to be a false Gospel.

The concept of predestination in the bible is always tied to groups of people, not specific individuals and is always in association with things that God Himself will do.

There are lots of things to say on this topic but in attempt to keep this brief, lets focus on those of us who are believers and members of the Body of Christ.

In this regard, the best analogy that I've ever heard likens it to boarding an airplane. The owner of the plane has determined in advance the plane's destination. It has thus been "predestined" to go to a certain place at a certain time. Those who choose to get on board before it leaves the boarding station are share in that "destiny".

Likewise, God predestined not only the Body of Christ's existence but the fact that it would be glorified. Those of us who join that group share that destiny by virtue of Christ's predestined glory and our identification IN HIM.

Romans 15:12 And again, Isaiah says: “There shall be a root of Jesse; And He who shall rise to reign over the Gentiles, In Him the Gentiles shall hope.”​

​

Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.​

​

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,​

 

[Robert Pate]

The concept of predestination in the bible is always tied to groups of people, not specific individuals and is always in association with things that God Himself will do.

There are lots of things to say on this topic but in attempt to keep this brief, lets focus on those of us who are believers and members of the Body of Christ.

In this regard, the best analogy that I've ever heard likens it to boarding an airplane. The owner of the plane has determined in advance the plane's destination. It has thus been "predestined" to go to a certain place at a certain time. Those who choose to get on board before it leaves the boarding station are share in that "destiny".

Likewise, God predestined not only the Body of Christ's existence but the fact that it would be glorified. Those of us who join that group share that destiny by virtue of Christ's predestined glory and our identification IN HIM.

Romans 15:12 And again, Isaiah says: “There shall be a root of Jesse; And He who shall rise to reign over the Gentiles, In Him the Gentiles shall hope.”​

​

Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.​

​

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,​

That is a good analogy. If you don't get on the plane, you are not one of his. It is by choice.

 

[Aunty Jane]

That is a good analogy. If you don't get on the plane, you are not one of his. It is by choice.

It’s good up to a point, but taken further there is “first class” and the rest of the passengers who are all going to the same destination. But once they get off the plane they will each go to a further destination, because no one wants to hang around an airport forever….right? They have a further destination to go to and when they reach that point, they will be taken to where God has reserved a place for them.

I see God’s ”elect“ or as I prefer to call them, “the chosen ones”….as a selected and different group to the rest of the “passengers” who are also “saved”. These alone will be given a position in heaven, where Jesus said he was going “to prepare a place“ for them….in “first class”….not first in importance, but first to be resurrected. (1 Thess 4:15-16; Rev 20:6)

The Revelation indicates that humans will live on earth forever, with all the past trauma, a thing of the past. (Rev 21:2-4) They will be ruled by this chosen group who are “joint-heirs with Christ”. They alone are said to become “kings and priests” with Jesus in his heavenly kingdom (Rev 20:6)….but the ones they rule will be on earth as God intended at the beginning. There was never a “heaven or hell” scenario ever given to Adam….nor were the Jews taught such a thing. God’s Kingdom with his Messiah as King would be an earthly arrangement, which is why they were taught to expect an human Messiah. It’s also the reason why God could never be that Messiah. As an immortal, God cannot die. Messiah had to be 100% human to pay the price of redemption.

It was not until Christ began his ministry that his apostles were to discover where Jesus was from, and where he was going to return…..he told them he was going away and that where he was going, they knew the way…..it puzzled them until all was revealed to them by God’s spirit. Those “chosen ones”, the ones Paul said had a “heavenly calling” (Heb 3:1) would be taken to heaven, “born again” or resurrected in a spirit body in order to dwell in the presence of God and his angelic sons. Flesh and blood cannot exist outside of earth’s atmosphere….but not all would attain a heavenly resurrection….God’s first purpose was to have perfect sinless humans living in an earthly paradise forever….that purpose would eventually be fulfilled but only after God had dealt with some rebellion in his household. God’s purpose took a detour, with the full intention of coming back to his original plans for the human race……(Isa 55:11)

What God predestined was his purpose, not the individuals in it….only a very few would have their lives arranged by God in advance….John the Baptist and Jesus were the two most well known. Both arrived to their mothers in miraculous fashion. One was sent to prepare the people for their Messiah, and the other was the Savior…”the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world”.

God’s purpose never went away…..it got put on hold whist the rebellion was allowed to create the most important object lesson mankind would ever experience. Only those who came out of that experience with their faith intact would be among those who were saved through the cataclysmic end of this world system ruled by the devil.…some to life in heaven as co-rulers with Christ, and the majority to enjoy the real life on earth as their subjects.…the life were were supposed to have enjoyed at the beginning….but lost due to Adam’s sin.