Rather, I thought you combine Israel and the Church, that they are all one. Is that not right?
Much love!
What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?
- Thread starter GracePeace
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Much love!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
well to be a true synergistic then you would have to accept all it says.
So I am neither mon or syn,,, Just like I am neither calvin or arminian
sounds like the same argument
Unbelieving Israel is off on its own. It's one of the "goyim" right now. It's not His people. Just like any other unbelieving nation. Before, all nations were "goyim", because they were "Not My People". Now, they, too, are "Not My People". They have been "cut off from among their people", as the Torah states "cut off from among his people".
A remnant of Israel believed, and are His people, together with remnants from other nations--the Church.
When Israel returns, they will be re-absorbed into "God's people", which, today, is called the Church.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
It’s taken the Holy Spirit many yrs to open up my heart and mind, /spiritual eyes and ears ,in understanding his word....there is so much I don’t understand, ..I never put any pressure on myself on trying to understand either.
He gives me the words to say..he speaks through me..imo...of course I’m sure at times I speak in the old mindset....I just post in faith....just my thoughts.
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I think the bottom line of "Synergism" is an emphasis on the idea that we must do what God says--God can work in us, but without us doing those things, God will not do them, and we can fall away if we do not continue in faith and in good works; "Monergism" emphasizes God's side of things.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
If we can fall away, then predestination is useless.. We can not be predestined to anything period..
I'm saying I do not know what "predestined" means in Paul's writings--and Paul doesn't treat "predestined" as you treat it, because he, in the same book, says those who have believed can be cut off for unbelief (Ro 11:17+). I'm collecting opinions on it to have a better understanding of it.
Nevertheless, it's tangential, and I don't want to open that can of worms--I was just helping you understand why I said "Monergist 'types'" answer the OP with ease, whereas "Synergist 'types'" come in defensively accusing me of holding to the "Monergist" view of "predestined".
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
you have romans 11 all wrong
And paul meant what he said, the Bible can not contradict
We have been predestined to be transformed.. There is no denying this.
In your view. paul lied. Period
LOL I don't want to get into it. I was merely explaining the bottom line difference between Synergist and Monergist.
Very true!! If God has pre-limited us to be conformed to the image of Christ, no other outcome is possible.
This is how the Bible can say,
Philippians 3:20-21 EMTV
20) For our citizenship exists in heaven, from which also we eagerly await for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21) who will transform our lowly body, that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subject all things to Himself.
If we are in fact citizens of heaven now, we will be transformed then.
Much love!
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Addendum: Paul refers to "the Israel of God" (over and against the "Israel" the Judaizers boast about being a part of--to which they are stringing the Gentiles along to make them join, lest the Gentiles should be "lessers"), and it is to this "Israel" that even the Gentile believers (also Jewish believers) belong. He had already called them "Isaac", and called the unbelieving Jews "Ishmael" (merely "issue" of Abraham's loins, but not of the line of promise), and said there is a "heavenly Jerusalem", as opposed to the earthly, so I don't believe he means this rhetorically. Christ said His kingdom is not of this world. You can say that Gentile believers are "part of the Commonwealth of Israel", or you can put it in what ever terms you want. Not that I've given it a massive amount of thought, but I think there are two Israels--a spiritual and a physical.
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So, are there people who are predestined, making sure they reach their door, so that they have the opportunity to go through it, who DO NOT use that opportunity to go through the door?
Hazelelponi
Well-Known Member
I was merely explaining the differences between the two--ie, that, contrary to what he was saying, he didn't have to subscribe to a "system" to qualify as a "Synergist type"--I didn't want to get in to that discussion. I'm aware there are different views on the topic--and no Synergist would say "strive in the flesh", they would say "work with God's grace".
Hazelelponi
Well-Known Member
Ahh... I don't talk to them often. I got into a few of those merry go rounds early on after I was saved, shocked they were even occuring and scratched my head and walked away from all that. Lol ..
It's a difference in emphasis, I think--but, obviously, that emphasis is a conclusion that is reached through precipitating theology, and those precipitating theologies also emphasize different truths, and there are many cases where neither side has satisfactory answers for the others' theological challenges, and are satisfied with either knowingly lying about others' views, or are satisfied with what are obviously unsatisfactory answers, or else don't care to have an answer at all.
That is why I'm asking this question. If "predestined" is in Scripture, I have to believe it--what ever it means.
Hazelelponi
Well-Known Member
I know with some people it really does seem to be a matter of semantics ..It's just where the emphasis lies.. in the semantics sometimes I rather think we can both be right at the same time, as the heart seems right with some..
But then there's the other's.... sigh.
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