What Is "Predestination"? How Does It Shape Your Daily Life?

[Bob Estey]

The problem is. If your not born again, adopted as his child.. Non of the above matters.

You can obey all you want. you will never find rest.

If I obey God, why would he torture me forever?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Off the top of my head, God decides ahead of time to create us. From the moment he creates us, he knows us.

David said that God knew him before his was in hos mothers womb.

Is God limited to time and space?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What word are you referring to?

That says we are predestined (not just once but a few times

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To me, being "predestined" means I am either predestined to go to heaven or hell. Nothing I can do will change that.

That would be a Calvinistic or fatalistic view. But it is not the scriptural view..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If I obey God, why would he torture me forever?

Have you sinned?

 

[Hazelelponi]

...

That would be a Calvinistic or fatalistic view. But it is not the scriptural view..

It's not fatalistic (aka hopeless) and honestly, only ignorant people would see predestination that way... Go back and read my last post in this thread.

The theology itself is one focused solely on hope and joy in Christ...

You live an accomplished life because Christ accomplished that work on the cross. Security is one that is full of works as much as it is hopes. You do it in Christ because Christ did it already, the work is finished, we overcame the world because we belong to Him and place our every hope in His Finished Work.

It's very very biblical - and I also believe anyone who is actually saved, whatever your Christian beliefs, anyone actually saved, also is among the elect of God and has absolute security in their salvation, whether they realize it now or not.

And remember, we will number like the sands.. :)

It's beautiful, and it walks in the power of God, not in it's own. It's a completely different way to live and a completely different way of interacting with the world... It's cool when you understand it. God is totally ever present...

And we reach out to all the lost as if they were our brothers as best as Christ gives us the ability, because we don't know if they will be our brothers tomorrow, and we so want them to be.

It's quite biblical... And not in the least fatalistic or hopeless. It's full of light and hope and glory because Christ is there.

But in the end, God is God, and He chooses His People from among the Nations whom He pleases, the same way He chose His Disciples.

If you recall history here, it was quite significant for a Rabbi to choose their disciples. It was an archaic practice reserved for only the Highest Rabbi's of Israel where, instead of students applying to be discipled, the Rabbi would choose his students.

And our Rabbi chose a mix of different people, who liked to tell the story from their unique view, because one vantage point speaks to this thing, and another speaks to that thing.

All people are saying is that God is still choosing His students, even when we might not be cognizant of it. And that's a beautiful thing. There's nothing to boast about except in Christ.

 

[GracePeace]

Because Christ has told us we are overcomers in Him, Monergism allows me to see my own personal sin as overcome (past tense) in Christ even if the physical overcoming isn't completed in me yet.

1 John 5:4–5 says, “For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?”

That grants me the ability to resist temptation far easier - because I am saved all I have to do is live (in action) the already realized future that was accomplished in Christ, bringing that which was accomplished in Him into my present reality, my daily walk.

When I falter it also gives me the confidence to stand before God in repentance and beg His forgiveness, because I know His promises are true and He'll not turn His back on His people, though He may chastise me He will continue to hold me and guide me as I grow to maturity in Him.

(Monergism)

See, only Monergist types answer this question easily lol

Thank you.

 

[GracePeace]

If you recall history here, it was quite significant for a Rabbi to choose their disciples. It was an archaic practice reserved for only the Highest Rabbi's of Israel where, instead of students applying to be discipled, the Rabbi would choose his students.

I always wondered why Jesus told Nathanael that He'd seen him under the Fig tree before. I think there's more to it, probably, but, as I was reading this past week, I realized it's possible that it's there to, basically, serve as an instance of Christ knowing us before hand and choosing us (so that being born of God is not of man's will).

 

[Hazelelponi]

See, only Monergist types answer this question easily lol

Thank you.

Your welcome brother...

I haven't gone through and read the thread yet. Lot's of fighting? I'm thinking I might not try and sort through it all .. lol

 

[Eternally Grateful]

...


It's not fatalistic (aka hopeless) and honestly, only ignorant people would see predestination that way... Go back and read my last post in this thread.

So we agree, it is not a fatalistic or hopeless approach?

The sad part is. Calvinism and fatalists would disagree with you and I.

The theology itself is one focused solely on hope and joy in Christ...

You live an accomplished life because Christ accomplished that work on the cross. Security is one that is full of works as much as it is hopes. You do it in Christ because Christ did it already, the work is finished, we overcame the world because we belong to Him and place our every hope in His Finished Work.

It's very very biblical - and I also believe anyone who is actually saved, whatever your Christian beliefs, anyone actually saved, also is among the elect of God and has absolute security in their salvation, whether they realize it now or not.

And remember, we will number like the sands.. :)

It's beautiful, and it walks in the power of God, not in it's own. It's a completely different way to live and a completely different way of interacting with the world... It's cool when you understand it. God is totally ever present...

And we reach out to all the lost as if they were our brothers as best as Christ gives us the ability, because we don't know if they will be our brothers tomorrow, and we so want them to be.

It's quite biblical... And not in the least fatalistic or hopeless. It's full of light and hope and glory because Christ is there.

But in the end, God is God, and He chooses His People from among the Nations whom He pleases, the same way He chose His Disciples.

If you recall history here, it was quite significant for a Rabbi to choose their disciples. It was an archaic practice reserved for only the Highest Rabbi's of Israel where, instead of students applying to be discipled, the Rabbi would choose his students.

And our Rabbi chose a mix of different people, who liked to tell the story from their unique view, because one vantage point speaks to this thing, and another speaks to that thing.

All people are saying is that God is still choosing His students, even when we might not be cognizant of it. And that's a beautiful thing. There's nothing to boast about except in Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

See, only Monergist types answer this question easily lol

Thank you.

Why do we try to pit people against each other. or come up with these terms?

is it so hard to just discuss the word?

 

[GracePeace]

Your welcome brother...

I haven't gone through and read the thread yet. Lot's of fighting? I'm thinking I might not try and sort through it all .. lol

There was a lot less fighting than usual, bc this is meant to SOLICIT OPINIONS, so, every time Synergist types came in with guns blazing, defensively accusing me and arguing against arguments I never made, I tried to clarify I wasn't asserting anything, just asking what everyone thought "predestined" meant (bc it's in Scripture).

 

[GracePeace]

Why do we try to pit people against each other. or come up with these terms?

is it so hard to just discuss the word?

I can make observations. Not one Monergist type has fought me on answering the OP, but plenty of Synergist types have come in with guns blazing, falsely accusing me of holding to a view that they then war against.

The reason why I highlight it is I want to show Synergists how ridiculous they are--they don't even hold to the doctrine, they only hold to a reflexive rejection of what OTHERS claim it is. If it's Biblical, though, you're not allowed to only hold to what it isn't, you have to hold to what it is (how ever you define it).

If we don't like it when Monergists seem to be playing games, ignoring evidence, then we deserve to be called out on it when we do it (if you ask me what I think the whole Bible teaches, I'd be a Synergist).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I can make observations. Not one Monergist type has fought me on answering the OP, but plenty of Synergist types have come in with guns blazing, falsely accusing me of holding to a view that they then war against.

The reason why I highlight it is I want to show Synergists how ridiculous they are--they don't even hold to the doctrine, they only hold to a reflexive rejection of what OTHERS claim it is. If it's Biblical, though, you're not allowed to only hold to what it isn't, you have to hold to what it is (how ever you define it).

If we don't like it when Monergists seem to be playing games, ignoring evidence, then we deserve to be called out on it when we do it (if you ask me what I think the whole Bible teaches, I'd be a Synergist).

lol. How do you know who is monergist or synergist. I do nto even know what the terms mean,.,

 

[marks]

I don't think you follow the grammar closely enough--

I'd be happy to compare notes.

Much love!

 

[marks]

lol. How do you know who is monergist or synergist. I do nto even know what the terms mean,.,

They are labels often used inappropriately. I don't pay any attention. I've been branded "monergist", which means God alone saves us, nothing to do with us. Meaning, you don't have to believe, you don't have to receive, you just get born again, and THEN you believe, which is directly against what I believe Scripture teaches.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

lol. How do you know who is monergist or synergist. I do nto even know what the terms mean,.,

Monergist "types" basically affirm "doctrines of grace", Synergists don't.

 

[GracePeace]

I'd be happy to compare notes.

Much love!

That's what we've been doing on the issue--that's how I can tell you don't.

You treat God's "marriage" to Israel atomistically, as if it's not part of a larger reality, as if it stands on its own, as of it's its own institution, as if it's unique and we should all bow in reverence at its mention.

Anyway, would like to move on from the issue. We don't agree and I'm fine with that. Sick of beating a dead horse--esp when the outcome of said "beating" has no bearing on the discussion.

 

[marks]

That's what we've been doing on the issue--that's how I can tell you don't.

Anyway, would like to move on from the issue. We don't agree and I'm fine with that.

Hardly! But OK.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

Hardly! But OK.

Much love!

This is just like the other issue (falling away from the faith in Paul's writings)--we've put our views out there, now we have to let it go--except in this case we're discussing literally a tangent.

You think I'm missing it, I think you're missing it. Neither is budging. Same situation as before.