Typical questions people ask about the Olivet Discourse.

[Truth7t7]

The wise believers in Christ who fully believe the gospel and ALL the words of Christ and His apostles, consider whose temple is the temple the Holy Spirit indwells, and what the abomination of desolation in the holy place actually refers to, because the temple that was destroyed in 70 A.D had ceased being the holy place when the veil in the temple was torn in two:

--- So when you see the abomination of desolation - spoken about by Daniel the prophet - standing in the holy place (let the reader understand): ---​

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"Abomination of Desolation" is a phrase from the Book of Daniel describing the pagan sacrifices with which the 2nd century BC Greek king Antiochus IV Epiphanes replaced the twice-daily offering in the Jewish temple, or alternatively the altar on which such offerings were made."

(Abomination of desolation - Wikipedia)​

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Daniel prophesied about:

(a) an abomination of desolation placed in the holy place by Antiochus IV which did not result in the destruction of city and sanctuary (the sanctuary was cleansed and rededicated when Antiochus IV was ousted); and

(b) about desolating abominations (plural) that Daniel associated with both the destruction of city and tabernacle, once Messiah had come and been cut off.

John 4:21-24
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Acts 7:48a
But, the Most High does not dwell in temples (Greek: naos) made with hands.

Acts 17:24
The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of Heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples (Greek naos) made with hands.

The wise believers in Christ who fully believe the gospel and ALL the words of Christ and His apostles know that the hour which Jesus spoke about that was coming when God would not be worshiped in a stone and mortar temple anywhere, came when Jesus died on the cross and the veil of the stone and mortar temple was torn in two.

Matthew 24:15 appears in the context of Jesus telling His disciples about the tribulation that the living stones of the New Testament temple were going to endure at the end of the Age immediately before He returns, and warning them about false prophets - just as the apostle Peter warned about false teachers teaching false doctrines.

So with regard to Matthew 24:15, the wise believers in Christ understand that the way it's interpreted would depend on whether or not the person interpreting it actually fully believes the gospel and ALL the words spoken by Christ and His apostles, so as not to mistake the temple destroyed in 70 A.D for the holy place of God.

A.D 70 was the fulfilment of (b) below, but (a) is the type or forerunner of 2 Thess 2:4 and Matt.24:15.

(a) is not associated with the destruction of the temple (or of the city), but of the oppression of God's elect, and the killing of all who refused to worship the image.

(b) was associated with the destruction of both the city and the temple, and it's now history.

Daniel prophesied about:

(a) an abomination of desolation placed in the holy place by Antiochus IV which did not result in the destruction of city and sanctuary (the sanctuary was cleansed and rededicated when Antiochus IV was ousted); and

(b) about desolating abominations (plural) that Daniel associated with both the destruction of city and tabernacle, once Messiah had come and been cut off.
​

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"Abomination of Desolation" is a phrase from the Book of Daniel describing the pagan sacrifices with which the 2nd century BC Greek king Antiochus IV Epiphanes replaced the twice-daily offering in the Jewish temple, or alternatively the altar on which such offerings were made."

(Abomination of desolation - Wikipedia)​

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No the events of Daniel's Abomination doesn't have a dual interpretation as you claim

Why would the same events of people fleeing from Judea to the mountains after the abomination is seen, and this fleeing being recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, with the book of Luke being written in 80-110AD after 70AD and the Roman destruction of Jerusalem

The reformed preterist claims of fulfillment fall on this fact alone, the events are future unfulfilled

 

[Truth7t7]

The literal, physical destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple that Christ told His disciples would come was not spiritual it was literal, and the words Christ spoke came true in 70 AD.

Matthew 24:2, The Temple Destruction Was Symbolic, Not Literal As Reformed PreterismTeaches​

Reformed Theology in Peterism takes the symbolic temple destruction in Matthew 24:2 and interprets it as a literal destruction by Roman armies in 70AD as fulfillment

The temple being destroyed in Matthew 24:2 was symbolic of the Lord's death and resurrection as seen in John 2:19-22 below, and yes his disciples remembered what he had said about the temples destruction

At the death of Jesus Christ, the veil in the temple was rent, the temple was "symbolically destroyed", and after the resurrection this literal temple in Jerusalem was replaced by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, he is the holy of holies and mediator between God and man, (Jerusalem's Temple Destroyed, Gone)

Matthew 27:50:51KJV
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The very verse you provide Matthew 24:14 supports my argument that Matthew 24 is speaking to a future generation than that of the disciples

Had the gospel been preached to all the world nations in the disciples 1st century AD Generation "No"

Yes, the gospel had already been preached to all the world nations in the first-century generation, according to Paul in Colossians 1:5-6 & 23, and in 1 Timothy 3:16.

"...the word of the truth of the gospel; which has come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth."

"...the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

 

[3 Resurrections]

Many would consider your claim heretical, in the realm of of a "Full Preterist"

No Jesus didn't return bodily in 70AD as you falsely claim, it's a future event that will culminate in the end of this world

Jesus fulfilled His promise to bodily return before some of those in Israel that heard Him speaking to them had died (Matthew 16:27-28). This is not what Full Preterism teaches at all. Full Preterists also deny the next future bodily return of Christ for a final bodily resurrection event for the last multitude of the saints at the final judgment. This will be the final bodily resurrection which will include any saints who either have died or will have died since the last AD 70 bodily resurrection event. That AD 70 second coming resurrection was the one which Paul told Felix was "about to be" (Acts 24:15).

 

[3 Resurrections]

Once Again, When did or will Daniel's Abomination of Desolation take place, when did or will those seen below flee Judea to the mountains?

Matthew 24:15-16KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21:20 interprets for us Daniel's "abomination of desolation" as being "Jerusalem surrounded by armies". The disciples were to recognize these encircling armies as the time to flee Judea and Jerusalem, so as to escape the "days of vengeance" coming upon "this people" - the first-century generation of Judea's inhabitants.

This abomination of desolation of "Jerusalem surrounded by armies" occurred in October of AD 66, with the arrival of Cestius Gallus' Roman army faced off against the Zealot leaders' armies which were in Jerusalem. After the Roman army had gotten into the city and was preparing to undermine the temple wall, Cestius Gallus for no reason whatever chose to withdraw from Jeruslem, when he could have taken the city within a few days. His retreat from the city, followed by the Zealot armies giving chase, gave any believers within the city of Jerusalem a precious couple days' window of opportunity to flee the city for the mountains, as Christ had warned them to do. Once the triumphant, victorious Zealot armies returned, the city gates were locked and no one was able to leave after that.

The casualty records we have from the AD 66-70 period compared to the Passover census taken by Nero in AD 66 show that an approximate 1-1/4 million individuals must have heeded Christ's warning to flee to the mountains from the war in Judea and Jerusalem, because they never returned to the besieged city.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

The years leading up to AD 70 were replete with just such tragic events as Christ predicted for that first-century generation. "Terrible even in peace", was the way Josephus described it . The wars and rebellions breaking out during those times are well documented. Likewise the surge in seismic activity and famines, which also are already being mentioned in Acts. These also were documented by historians of the day, as well as leaving us today archaeological evidence of those seismic events dated to the years leading up to AD 70.

If you are a Preterist then to me, it is so nonsensical I don't eve debate the point. There was not Nations against Nations and Kingdom against kingdoms in the first century Pax Romanus. The birth pangs Jess describes are a 2000 year period of time, we are in the 9th month and last week now. PERIOD !!

You have misquoted Christ. He said "the end is NOT by and by..." The phrase "by and by" in scripture does not mean "much later on". It means "IMMEDIATELY". We today have typically misunderstood this phrase. One example where scripture defines "by and by" is Herodias' daughter demanding of Herod, "I will that thou give me by and by in a charger the head of John the Baptist." And it says "Immediately the king sent an executioner, and commanded his head to be brought..." (Mark 6:25-27). Another example is Luke 17:7, "But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, 'Go and sit down to meat'? And will not rather say unto him, 'Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink'?" This was the servant immediately coming from the field being addressed by the master - not "much later on".

So, when Christ told His disciples in Luke 21:9, "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by", this meant that the end would not be immediately after those wars and commotions, but just a little while after. This happened just as Christ foretold in the troubled years (the "beginning of sorrows" period) leading up to the AD 66-70 Zealot rebellion, which launched the unparalleled "days of vengeance" / aka "the Great Tribulation". And we are told that Christ would return "IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29-30). The chronology is pretty clear for an AD 70 bodily return of Christ.

I was working from the framework of Matt. 24:6 where Jesus says the end is not yet, I am simply saying these things in verses 7-8 are way on down the road, not the 70 AD events, I usually stick with Matthew or John on the Gospel, but the sentiment is the same, its NOT STRAIGHT AWAY, well that is what my point is, so it is OK with me that NOT BY & BY means its not 70 AD. God sees the heart, He doesn't cate about the minutia tbh, its all chaff anyway.

And, no, its not a "little later" the 70th week end is still not here.

The troubles start with an Asteroid Impact, then 1260 days later Jesus returns in vs. 30. Verse 29 and 30 has a 1260 day GAP just like Zech. 1-2 where the DOTL arrives, and Jerusalem gets sacked/conquered and THEN..........1260 days later the Mountain split (Jesus touches down) in vs. 3.

 

[3 Resurrections]

There was not Nations against Nations and Kingdom against kingdoms in the first century Pax Romanus.

Do you need a list of all of these "wars and rumors of wars" that occurred in the first century?

The birth pangs Jess describes are a 2000 year period of time, we are in the 9th month and last week now. PERIOD !

The "birth pangs" began with the persecution of the disciples when they were being beaten in the synagogues, and brought before the rulers of the Sanhedrin and their councils; being put to death for preaching the name of Christ. These "birth pangs" or "beginning of sorrows" began in the book of Acts, just as Christ had predicted in Luke 21:7-36 and Matthew 24.

Ordinarily, when birth pangs start for a woman, the birth is imminent thereafter - not prolonged for 2,000 years and counting. Those "beginning of sorrows" culminated in the "days of vengeance" when God brought His avenging wrath upon "the betrayers and murderers" of that first-century generation of Christ-rejecting Israelites and their children. These "days of vengeance" expired with the passing of that first-century generation. God is not unjust to prolong those "days of vengeance" for the murder of His Son on all the intervening generations since then. "His blood be on us and our children" was a self-pronounced curse limited to only that single generation.

I was working from the framework of Matt. 24:6 where Jesus says the end is not yet, I am simply saying these things in verses 7-8 are way on down the road, not the 70 AD events, I usually stick with Matthew or John on the Gospel, but the sentiment is the same, its NOT STRAIGHT AWAY, well that is what my point is, so it is OK with me that NOT BY & BY means its not 70 AD. God sees the heart, He doesn't cate about the minutia tbh, its all chaff anyway.

The minutiae DOES count, and none of it is "chaff". The phrase "Not by and by" meant "Not immediately after the beginning of sorrows". The "days of vengeance" in AD 66-70 came between the "beginning of sorrows" and the time when the "end" came in AD 70. Christ gave the chronological order of events for this in the Olivet Discourse, as follows:

#1) First of all, the disciples would be persecuted by the Jewish religious leadership, brought before their rulers of the Sanhedrin, and beaten in their synagogues. This happened and was recorded in the book of Acts.
#2) THEN wars and rumors of wars would arise, along with plagues, famines, earthquakes, etc. Of which we have multiple historians' testimony of those happening in the first-century, as well as some of these events being recorded in the book of Acts.
#3) These "beginning of sorrows" events would lead to Daniel's abomination of desolation, meaning "Jerusalem surrounded by armies". This was recorded of Cestius Gallus and his Roman army squaring off against the Zealot armies at Jerusalem in October of AD 66.
#4) Once Jerusalem was surrounded by armies, the disciples were to flee to the mountains to avoid the "days of vengeance" / aka the "Great Tribulation". Which they did, numbering that approximate 1-1/4 million who heeded Christ's warning.
#5) "IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation of those days" of the "Great Tribulation" years from AD 66-70, Christ bodily returned for the second coming resurrection event, as Matthew 24:30-31 described.

You are trying to insert a gap between the 69 and 70th week of Daniel's prophecy that isn't there. That prophecy ended in AD 37, a grand total of 490 years from when the decree was given in 454 BC to restore and to build Jerusalem, street and walls included. We are not waiting for this last 70th week to conclude. Your chronology of this 70 week prophecy is considerably off track.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, the gospel had already been preached to all the world nations in the first-century generation, according to Paul in Colossians 1:5-6 & 23, and in 1 Timothy 3:16.

"...the word of the truth of the gospel; which has come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth."

"...the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

I disagree with your claims of (All The World) being localized to areas in the 1st century

The gospel being preached in all the world pertains to just that, (All The World) including the America's, future events that have and are taking place fulfilling the scripture

You're a full preterist, going so far as to claim that Jesus returned "Bodily" to this earth in 70AD as post #57 clearly shows, a claim that's heretical in the opinion of many

 

[Truth7t7]

If you are a Preterist then to me, it is so nonsensical I don't eve debate the point. There was not Nations against Nations and Kingdom against kingdoms in the first century Pax Romanus. The birth pangs Jess describes are a 2000 year period of time, we are in the 9th month and last week now. PERIOD !!

"False Claim", birth pangs of a woman in labor are sudden and quick, your claim of 2,000+ years and waiting is "Laughable"!

The troubles start with an Asteroid Impact

The asteroid impact starts the 1260 days? Oh Sure, beam me up Scotty, Alien invasion, big smiles!

then 1260 days later Jesus returns in vs. 30. Verse 29 and 30 has a 1260 day GAP just like Zech. 1-2 where the DOTL arrives, and Jerusalem gets sacked/conquered and THEN..........1260 days later the Mountain split (Jesus touches down) in vs. 3.

Oh Sure, everybody knows that trick, another rabbit out of the hat, Real Big Smiles!

 

[3 Resurrections]

I disagree with your claims of (All The World) being localized to areas in the 1st century

The gospel being preached in all the world pertains to just that, (All The World) including the America's, future events that have and are taking place fulfilling the scripture

Then you are calling the Apostle Paul a liar. God had more than just the Apostles spreading the gospel to the nations of the world in those first century days. Christ raised up an evangelistic force of 144,000 First-fruits, resurrected from the dead on the same day that "Christ the First-fruits" arose. These Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints were the "multitude of captives" which the ascending Christ brought out of the grave the same day He Himself arose. Ephesians 4 described these "gifts" given to men, which "gifts" were the multitude of captives serving in the early church as (resurrected) apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.

The amount of evangelistic coverage a single resurrected individual can perform cannot be measured. In those years between AD 33 and AD 70, these 144,000 First-fruits resurrected individuals were hard at work evangelizing the nations of the world. In their resurrected immortal state, they were not hampered by the normal restrictions that the disciples faced under mortal flesh conditions. These resurrected 144,000 First-fruits were impervious to sickness, death, injury of any kind, demonic oppression, aging, hunger, etc. And they could travel extreme distances with the same speed as the risen Christ. If Paul said "every creature under heaven" had heard the gospel, then this is what had happened in those first-century days by the time Paul was writing Colossians 1:5-6 & 23 and 1 Timothy 3:16.

 

[Truth7t7]

Luke 21:20 interprets for us Daniel's "abomination of desolation" as being "Jerusalem surrounded by armies". The disciples were to recognize these encircling armies as the time to flee Judea and Jerusalem, so as to escape the "days of vengeance" coming upon "this people" - the first-century generation of Judea's inhabitants.

Your claim is "False" because the people fleeing are doing so because of (Daniel's Abomination) that starts (The Great Tribulation) Its at this time people flee from Judea that you claim has been fulfilled in 70AD "False"!

Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

(Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days)

Yes the great tribulation seen above will end in the second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, human eyes upon this earth will witness the event, and it didn't take place in 70AD Jerusalem as you falsely claim, with yourself going so far as to claim Jesus bodily returned in 70AD as seen in post #57, a claim thats heretical in the opinion of many

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Your claim is "False" because the people fleeing are doing so because of (Daniel's Abomination) that starts (The Great Tribulation) Its at this time people flee from Judea that you claim has been fulfilled in 70AD "False"!

You are misreading my comment. I wrote that the disciples fled Jerusalem and Judea in OCTOBER of AD 66 when they first saw "Jerusalem surrounded by armies" with the Roman army of Cestius Gallus and the Zealot leaders' armies inside Jerusalem opposing them. This flight to the mountains was NOT in AD 70. It was in AD 66. And Josephus documents this flight from Jerusalem at that time. It was then in October of AD 66 that the "days of vengeance" / aka "the Great Tribulation" started, and lasted until AD 70. And it was "IMMEDIATELY AFTER those days" when Christ bodily returned to the Mount of Olives, just as He had predicted in Matthew 24. And I believe my Christ spoke truth about this, and did so plainly.

 

[Truth7t7]

"the Great Tribulation" started, and lasted until AD 70. And it was "IMMEDIATELY AFTER those days" when Christ bodily returned to the Mount of Olives, just as He had predicted in Matthew 24. And I believe my Christ spoke truth about this, and did so plainly.

Jesus Christ didn't bodily return to the Mount of Olives in 70AD as you falsely claim above, his return is future that will see this world being destroyed by fire (The End)

Your claims are that of a (Full Preterist) a heretical system of teaching and belief in the opinion of many

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Jesus Christ didn't bodily return to the Mount of Olives in 70AD as you falsely claim above, his return is future that will see this world being destroyed by fire (The End)

Peter did not say the entire globe would be burned up. He said "the earth and the works that are therein" would be burned up and "dissolved". "EARTH" here is "tes ges", which more often than not in the NT refers specifically to the land of Israel. In the AD 66-70 period of the "Great Tribulation", the land (tes ges) of Israel went through this fiery period when the works of men's hands were quite literally burned up - particularly the city of Jerusalem and the temple which was torn down to the last stone. The ash layer for this AD 66-70 period of fiery conditions in Jerusalem is still there in the ongoing excavations of the Old City, which date to this period.

Hebrews 12:26-27 also wrote of this process in which God had "NOW" promised for that first generation to shake both the earth and the heavens also, to remove those "things that are made", so that the things which could not be shaken would remain. You and I are presently in this unshaken New Jerusalem reality of the NHNE. In the AD 70 period, God got rid of all those physical, obsolete OC trappings by burning them up and tearing them down, because Israel had made an idol of them. Just as Isaiah 65 predicted for the NHNE, there is still the presence of sinners and death that occurs , as well as the birth of offspring (which means the NHNE is not the eternal state of the afterlife). John's NHNE in Revelation is the same reality, with sinners that still exist just outside the gates of the New Jerusalem - which are always open in invitation to any who thirst for living water to enter those open gates.

Hebrews 12:22 wrote that the New Jerusalem was even then in existence ("Ye have come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem..." The Jerusalem that was above, that is free, that is the mother of us all, has come down to earth already, and we as believers are the inhabitants of it. We are awaiting the final bodily return of Christ, with the next resurrection event. (Full Preterists do not teach this.)

 

[Truth7t7]

Peter did not say the entire globe would be burned up. He said "the earth and the works that are therein" would be burned up and "dissolved". "EARTH" here is "tes ges", which more often than not in the NT refers specifically to the land of Israel. In the AD 66-70 period of the "Great Tribulation", the land (tes ges) of Israel went through this fiery period when the works of men's hands were quite literally burned up - particularly the city of Jerusalem and the temple which was torn down to the last stone. The ash layer for this AD 66-70 period of fiery conditions in Jerusalem is still there in the ongoing excavations of the Old City, which date to this period.

Hebrews 12:26-27 also wrote of this process in which God had "NOW" promised for that first generation to shake both the earth and the heavens also, to remove those "things that are made", so that the things which could not be shaken would remain. You and I are presently in this unshaken New Jerusalem reality of the NHNE. In the AD 70 period, God got rid of all those physical, obsolete OC trappings by burning them up and tearing them down, because Israel had made an idol of them. Just as Isaiah 65 predicted for the NHNE, there is still the presence of sinners and death that occurs , as well as the birth of offspring (which means the NHNE is not the eternal state of the afterlife). John's NHNE in Revelation is the same reality, with sinners that still exist just outside the gates of the New Jerusalem - which are always open in invitation to any who thirst for living water to enter those open gates.

Hebrews 12:22 wrote that the New Jerusalem was even then in existence ("Ye have come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem..." The Jerusalem that was above, that is free, that is the mother of us all, has come down to earth already, and we as believers are the inhabitants of it. We are awaiting the final bodily return of Christ, with the next resurrection event. (Full Preterists do not teach this.)

You falsely teach of (3) appearances of Jesus upon this earth, 2 have been fulfilled and one will be future

1.) Jesus Birth by Mary, earthly ministry of Jesus Christ (Fulfilled)

2.)Jesus Bodily returned to the Mount of Olives in 70AD (Fictional Fairy Tale)

3.) A future awaiting in the final bodily return of Jesus (Future Unfulfilled)

Scripture clearly teaches of (2) that would account for items 1 & 3 above, your claim of Jesus bodily returning to the Mount of Olives in 70AD isn't found in scripture its a (Fictional Fairy Tale)

Scripture clearly teaches Jesus will appear a (Second Time) not a (Third Time) as you falsely teach and believe

Hebrews 9:28KJV
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Scripture clearly teaches Jesus will appear a (Second Time) not a (Third Time) as you falsely teach and believe

Hebrews 9:28KJV
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

This Hebrews 9:28 verse is not a proof-text disproving a third resurrection in our future. It can't be used as such. It only teaches about a coming second time appearance of Christ for those looking for Him, which I am also saying. Christ predicted that His second coming return would occur soon enough in time for some of those He had spoken to in that first-century generation to see that return before they died. Matthew 16:27-28 is clear on this. Unless you want to claim that some of those Christ addressed personally back in the first century are still living today? In that case, that really would be a "fairy tale".

This coming second appearance of Christ in Hebrews 9:28 neither proves nor disproves a third coming return of Christ in our own future. But just because it mentions the phrase "second time" does not eliminate a third appearance of Christ. It's the same kind of thing when scripture says in John 4:54, "This again was the second miracle which Jesus did, when he was come out of Judaea into Galilee." Does this mention of a "second miracle" eliminate any possibility of a third miracle Christ performed? Of course not.

There are several scripture texts which describe the ordinary, continued progress of human history still going on after Christ's second coming return. Do you need a list of these texts? For all of those who will have lived and died in that continued history after Christ's second coming return, these must also stand before the judgment seat of Christ, because scripture says "we must ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ...". This necessitates a third coming return of Christ and a third resurrection event. This is the solution that reconciles all the predictions in the NT of Christ's soon return in that first-century generation, and still includes for us today the promise of a future bodily resurrection and return. It also silences the mockery of today's unbelievers who ridicule a Christ who either lied or could not keep His promises to His own disciples.

 

[Truth7t7]

This Hebrews 9:28 verse is not a proof-text disproving a third resurrection in our future. It can't be used as such. It only teaches about a coming second time appearance of Christ for those looking for Him, which I am also saying. Christ predicted that His second coming return would occur soon enough in time for some of those He had spoken to in that first-century generation to see that return before they died. Matthew 16:27-28 is clear on this. Unless you want to claim that some of those Christ addressed personally back in the first century are still living today? In that case, that really would be a "fairy tale".

This coming second appearance of Christ in Hebrews 9:28 neither proves nor disproves a third coming return of Christ in our own future. But just because it mentions the phrase "second time" does not eliminate a third appearance of Christ. It's the same kind of thing when scripture says in John 4:54, "This again was the second miracle which Jesus did, when he was come out of Judaea into Galilee." Does this mention of a "second miracle" eliminate any possibility of a third miracle Christ performed? Of course not.

There are several scripture texts which describe the ordinary, continued progress of human history still going on after Christ's second coming return. Do you need a list of these texts? For all of those who will have lived and died in that continued history after Christ's second coming return, these must also stand before the judgment seat of Christ, because scripture says "we must ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ...". This necessitates a third coming return of Christ and a third resurrection event. This is the solution that reconciles all the predictions in the NT of Christ's soon return in that first-century generation, and still includes for us today the promise of a future bodily resurrection and return. It also silences the mockery of today's unbelievers who ridicule a Christ who either lied or could not keep His promises to His own disciples.

And no response or scripture provided to substantiate your claim that Jesus was physically on the Mount of Olives in 70AD, "because it dosent exist", it's a (Fictional Man Made Fairy Tale)

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Do you need a list of all of these "wars and rumors of wars" that occurred in the first century?

Whatever you want to call them, in the Pax Romanus they were not serious "wars" unless you are talking about nations outside of Europe, and the End Time Beast is only about the 7 Headed 10 Horned Region, the E.U. conquers ONLY the Mediterranean Sea region, not the whole world. The fact that you do not get its like Birth Pangs and becomes more frequent and more "violent" kind of astonishes me brother, but alas, you get your theory ahead of the facts, that in reverse order. That's why you have to dodge the facts my friend.

The "birth pangs" began with the persecution of the disciples when they were being beaten in the synagogues, and brought before the rulers of the Sanhedrin and their councils; being put to death for preaching the name of Christ. These "birth pangs" or "beginning of sorrows" began in the book of Acts, just as Christ had predicted in Luke 21:7-36 and Matthew 24.

Ordinarily, when birth pangs start for a woman, the birth is imminent thereafter - not prolonged for 2,000 years and counting. Those "beginning of sorrows" culminated in the "days of vengeance" when God brought His avenging wrath upon "the betrayers and murderers" of that first-century generation of Christ-rejecting Israelites and their children. These "days of vengeance" expired with the passing of that first-century generation. God is not unjust to prolong those "days of vengeance" for the murder of His Son on all the intervening generations since then. "His blood be on us and our children" was a self-pronounced curse limited to only that single generation.

Yea, you don't get it at all, the END IS NOT YET, the END IS NOT IMMENENT or IMMEDIATE, so when is the end? Well, Jesus goes into a description so as to make sure they did not mistake 70 AD for the end time 2nd Coming, that's the only value verses 7-8 have at all, it as a throw away line, merely a descriptor to describe why 70 AD is not the end, after those two verses Jesus goes right back to telling them their fates.

The Birth Pangs birth something right? That would be, THE END or 70th week, which ushers in the Kingdom Age, look around, do you see Jesus ruling from Jerusalem? TBH, I do not see how people can even go down those paths. Its mind boggling and I have seen it all.

The Preterist people are down a deep rabbit hole IMHO.

The minutiae DOES count, and none of it is "chaff". The phrase "Not by and by" meant "Not immediately after the beginning of sorrows". The "days of vengeance" in AD 66-70 came between the "beginning of sorrows" and the time when the "end" came in AD 70. Christ gave the chronological order of events for this in the Olivet Discourse, as follows:

The END or 70th week has not come yet. That debate s over.

#1) First of all, the disciples would be persecuted by the Jewish religious leadership, brought before their rulers of the Sanhedrin, and beaten in their synagogues. This happened and was recorded in the book of Acts.

They were killed by the Roman's orders.

#2) THEN wars and rumors of wars would arise, along with plagues, famines, earthquakes, etc. Of which we have multiple historians' testimony of those happening in the first-century, as well as some of these events being recorded in the book of Acts.

These events crescendo unto the very end or 70thy week. The Black Plague, AIDS, COVID 19 etc. WW1 and WW2 are the two worst wars in history.

#3) These "beginning of sorrows" events would lead to Daniel's abomination of desolation, meaning "Jerusalem surrounded by armies". This was recorded of Cestius Gallus and his Roman army squaring off against the Zealot armies at Jerusalem in October of AD 66.

The beginning of b9rth pangs is nit as relevant as when they end, coming soon when Jesus shows up.

#4) Once Jerusalem was surrounded by armies, the disciples were to flee to the mountains to avoid the "days of vengeance" / aka the "Great Tribulation". Which they did, numbering that approximate 1-1/4 million who heeded Christ's warning.

You do not understand prophecy, at all.

#5) "IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation of those days" of the "Great Tribulation" years from AD 66-70, Christ bodily returned for the second coming resurrection event, as Matthew 24:30-31 described.

Immediately after the Sun and Moon goes dark (Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact)

Mattt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {{{ MEANING the Asteroid BEGINS the 1260 days of troubles and IMMEDIATLY AFTER thius the Sun & Moon will dim by 1/3 or grow darker)

30 And then(Jesus shows up 1260 days later AND THEN I can show tj9s exact same patern elswwhere) shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Zechh. 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh(Asteroid hits, Rev. 8 and Joel 2:31 describe the event) and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then(1260 days LATER) shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations(Rev. 16:19), as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west,(Jesus' 2nd Coming) and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Mattt. 24:29-30 says the EXACT SAME THING, you just do not interpret it correctly my brother. Most people are off by the 1260m days, you are off by 2000 years !! It is what it is.

You are trying to insert a gap between the 69 and 70th week of Daniel's prophecy that isn't there. That prophecy ended in AD 37, a grand total of 490 years from when the decree was given in 454 BC to restore and to build Jerusalem, street and walls included. We are not waiting for this last 70th week to conclude. Your chronology of this 70 week prophecy is considerably off track.

No, God put off Israel 70th week judgment and inserted a people he had not known. Ever read Romans chapters 9-11, its speaks of SERVICE, and why Israel had been forsaken, because of unbelief, but that they would be grafted back in when the FULNESS of the Gentiles [SERVICE] comes in in full. So, only after we are raptured can the 70th week come in. God re t the temple when Jesus died, meaning He left, He called Israel Dead Men's Bones, so there could be no repentance, because there was NO Israel. Its 70 weeks of Judgments, it can be any tine God wants to judge them, and is, those 70 weeks HAVE TO BRING Repentance by Israel.

When you get to heaven and find out you were wrong on all things Prophecy, I bet the Lord is like, that was not your calling son.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

"False Claim", birth pangs of a woman in labor are sudden and quick, your claim of 2,000+ years and waiting is "Laughable"!

Good grief, its all relative to the example. You can have a crescendo that happens over a billion years, 2000 years or 9 months.

The asteroid impact starts the 1260 days? Oh Sure, beam me up Scotty, Alien invasion, big smiles!

SMH, I have encountered you on many sites, you never cease being wrong on 99.5 percent of all things prophecy.

Oh Sure, everybody knows that trick, another rabbit out of the hat, Real Big Smiles!

You do not need a trick, trust me.

Watch out, a lawyer might sue you for using that name, false advertisement.

 

[3 Resurrections]

And no response or scripture provided to substantiate your claim that Jesus was physically on the Mount of Olives in 70AD, "because it dosent exist", it's a (Fictional Man Made Fairy Tale)

The timing of Christ's return which became dated to Pentecost day in AD 70 can be found in Ezekiel Daniel, and Zechariah.

#1) Ezekiel 46:1-3 describes the rebuilt temple of Zerubbabel with its "gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east" The people were to worship facing the door of this eastern gate in the Sabbaths and in the new moons. This gate was to be shut the six working days, and only opened on the Sabbaths and the new moons for the prince of the people to both enter and leave by that eastern gate. No one else could use that gate but the prince of the people.

This was indicative of the very location and timing of when "Messiah the Prince" would return - and leave - from that eastern gate. This eastern gate was the one that faced the Mount of Olives, which was where Zechariah 14:4-5 said that Christ would bodily return. No wonder the people were ordered to worship facing this eastern gate. It would be the location and the timing where they would see Messiah the Prince returning for the bodily resurrection of the saints.

HINT: this temple and its gates were all torn down to the last stone by the close of AD 70. That is because the eastern gate by then had served its purpose as the location where Christ would bodily return. There was no need to preserve the temple and that eastern gate after that.


#2) Zechariah 12-14 is the entire prophecy predicting the conditions of the "seige both against Judah and Jerusalem" in the AD 66-70 period. Everything predicted for "in that day" happened in the same period of time. That included the bodily return of Christ to the Mount of Olives, opposite the eastern gate of Jerusalem's temple. Zechariah 14:4-5 (in the LXX) predicted that the mountain would "cleave asunder" and "lean" in all direction of north, south, east and west. At that time, the valley (the Kidron Valley) would be "blocked up as far as Azal", just as it had done in King Uzziah's days of the earthquake back then. This was going to be earthquake rubble from the breaking up of the Mount of Olives that would slide downhill in all directions from there and block up the Kidron Valley, just as it had done once before. At this point Christ would have returned, and all the saints with Him.

Archaeological digs in the Kidron Valley have revealed that there is a 40' deep layer of this landslide rubble lying in the Kidron Valley today that extends as far as the Wadi Yasul (the "Azal" name preserved in Arabic), dated to a first-century earthquake event. The lowest part of the Kidron Valley is not as deep as it was in Christ's days, since it is 40' higher now than back then, and about 70' further away from the walls of Jerusalem on that eastern side than it used to be. In other words, Christ performed His second coming return - and departure - as promised, leaving the earthquake rubble lying in the Kidron Valley as a mute testimony of that return in AD 70.

#3) Daniel went even more specific as to the AD 70 timing of the resurrection at Christ's return. Daniel 12:11-13 predicted a countdown of a total of 1,335 days, at the end of which Daniel himself would "stand in his lot" after resting in the grave until then. There were two specific events which would launch the beginning of that 1,335 days. #1), The "abomination of desolation" being set up ("Jerusalem surrounded by armies" as in Luke 21:20) taking place at the same season of time in which #2), a "daily sacrifice shall be taken away".

Both of these two events happened in the same season in AD 66, when Cestius Gallus's Roman army made contact with Jerusalem's temple wall in October of AD 66, in the same season when the temple governor, Eleazar, had just taken away the daily sacrifice made for the Roman empire and the emperor, and refused to allow the offerings made by any foreigners in Jerusalem. This broke the treaty which Jerusalem's priesthood had made with Rome, which had allowed them to operate as a "religio licita" - a state-sanctioned religion. This was an act of war against Rome, and resulted in the Roman army under Cestius Gallus coming to surround Jerusalem .

Counting down Daniel's 1,260 days from the October AD 66 presence of Cestius Gallus's army in Jerusalem at the temple wall, the Roman armies arrived again under Titus, just after Passover week had begun in AD 70 (the 1,260 days in Daniel 12:11). Forty-five days later, on the 1,335th day, Pentecost day in AD 70 arrived. Those who had waited for this day experienced the blessing of the resurrection which Daniel also participated in. Everyone in the "dust of the earth" who was "written in the book" was "delivered" by a resurrection at that point, which was on a "Sabbath", just as Ezekiel 46:1-3 had indicated for Messiah the Prince to arrive on schedule at the eastern gate location.