SALVATION: BY GRACE OR BY WORKS? A FALSE DICHOTOMY

[Big Boy Johnson]

This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Which is... a good work.

 

[GracePeace]

Your “shoehorn” remark is based on your own misunderstanding of mans GENERAL “good deeds”. I spoke of a Specific works of man that which Glorifies God.

I didn’t say the Lord rewards a man for his good “DEEDS”.

Men “reward” men for good “DEEDS” men do for men.

The Lord rewards men “rewards” for works men do unto the Glory of God.

Matt 16.
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Rev 22:
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.



I asked nothing of you.
However now, I would suggest you listen to what an other actually says, rather than changing what was said.

God Bless you.
Glory to God,

Taken

Sorry, Scripture teaches me eternal life is repaid doers of good, and nothing you've said has changed anything. Your tradition is anti-Biblical as far as I can tell.

 

[GracePeace]

Your “shoehorn” remark is based on your own misunderstanding of mans GENERAL “good deeds”. I spoke of a Specific works of man that which Glorifies God.

I didn’t say the Lord rewards a man for his good “DEEDS”.

Men “reward” men for good “DEEDS” men do for men.

The Lord rewards men “rewards” for works men do unto the Glory of God.

Matt 16.
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Rev 22:
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.



I asked nothing of you.
However now, I would suggest you listen to what an other actually says, rather than changing what was said.

God Bless you.
Glory to God,

Taken

What you are doing, deceptively (intentionally or not), is creating a distinction between the words "reward" and "eternal life" that simply doesn't exist in Scripture: eternal life is the reward He repays the doers of good according to the passages of Scripture I shared.

 

[Earburner]

Some will get a frown instead of a crown

Yes, all those who are "none of His". Rom. 8:8-9.
Why? John 3:18; 1 John 5:12-13.

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, all those who are "none of His". Rom. 8:8-9.
Why? John 3:18; 1 John 5:12-13.

Romans 8:12,13 says Christians will not live (not be repaid eternal life for good deeds) but die if you walk after the flesh instead of mortifying the seeds of flesh by the Spirit--Romans 2 warns the Jewish believers in the Roman Church they're storing up wrath for themselves.

 

[Earburner]

Sorry, Scripture teaches me eternal life is repaid doers of good, and nothing you've said has changed anything. Your tradition is anti-Biblical as far as I can tell.

Please read and study all of KJV 1 Cor. 2
1 Cor. 2[5] That your faith should NOT stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [authority] of God.

 

[Earburner]

Romans 8:12,13 says Christians will not live (not be repaid eternal life for good deeds) but die if you walk after the flesh instead of mortifying the seeds of flesh by the Spirit--Romans 2 warns the Jewish believers in the Roman Church they're storing up wrath for themselves.

I agree.
To walk in the Spirit, is to rest from our own works, by allowing "the mind of Christ" within us, to do His good work in us and through us, and not the works that we
choose to go and do.
Heb. 12
[2] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

All should take serious look at the story about Martha and Mary, and WHAT Jesus said about each.

 

[Taken]

Sorry, Scripture teaches me eternal life is repaid doers of good, and nothing you've said has changed anything.

Your tradition is anti-Biblical as far as I can tell.

False accusation.

 

[Taken]

What you are doing, deceptively (intentionally or not), is creating a distinction between the words "reward" and "eternal life" that simply doesn't exist in Scripture:

Making false allegations then disagreeing with what you claim FOR me, that I neither said or implied…..GASLIGHTER!

 

[GracePeace]

Please read and study all of KJV 1 Cor. 2
1 Cor. 2[5] That your faith should NOT stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [authority] of God.

I thought that was what I was doing by trusting His Word.

 

[GracePeace]

Making false allegations then disagreeing with what you claim FOR me, that I neither said or implied…..GASLIGHTER!

So, you actually AGREE that only doers of good will be repaid eternal life?

OK, we're on the same page!

 

[GracePeace]

I agree.
To walk in the Spirit, is to rest from our own works, by allowing "the mind of Christ" within us, to do His good work in us and through us, and not the works that we
choose to go and do.
Heb. 12
[2] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

All should take serious look at the story about Martha and Mary, and WHAT Jesus said about each.

I agree--still, it irks me when people pass their lies off as if it were Biblical truth. That's why I'm addressing the issue.

Also, Paul says we are to present our members to God as instrument of righteousness, and that if we obey sin we will be slaves of sin, so, apparently, there is still choice involved, it's not automatic.

 

[Earburner]

I thought that was what I was doing by trusting His Word.

Yes, Jesus is the Word, made to be flesh. John 1:14

John 5
[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, Jesus is the Word, made to be flesh. John 1:14

John 5
[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

So, am I wrong for quoting Scripture proving eternal life will be repaid doers of good?

 

[Earburner]

Which is... a good work.

Ok, but the scripture says: "This is THE work of God....."

 

[Taken]

So, you actually AGREE that only doers of good will be repaid eternal life?

OK, we're on the same page!

Salvation is guaranteed FOR the man WHOSE…
TRUE Heartful Belief IS IN God and Christ Jesus at the time of that mans bodily DEATH.
This is called DOING “THE…A” work of God.
A work God requires.

John 6:
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Col I
[5] For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


Salvation BEFORE “physical Death” is guaranteed FOR the man
WHOSE…
TRUE Heartful Belief IN God and Christ Jesus IS CONFESSED by the mans own word, and his bodily Death, is him accepting BEING Crucified with Christ.

Salvation is not about DOING a string of “good works”.
Blessings are for Doing good works.
Rewards are for Doing works that glorify God.

Rom 9:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Cor 6:
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GracePeace]

Salvation is guaranteed FOR the man WHOSE…
TRUE Heartful Belief IS IN God and Christ Jesus at the time of that mans bodily DEATH.
This is called DOING “THE…A” work of God.
A work God requires.

John 6:
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Col I
[5] For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


Salvation BEFORE “physical Death” is guaranteed FOR the man
WHOSE…
TRUE Heartful Belief IN God and Christ Jesus IS CONFESSED by the mans own word, and his bodily Death, is him accepting BEING Crucified with Christ.

Salvation is not about DOING a string of “good works”.
Blessings are for Doing good works.
Rewards are for Doing works that glorify God.

Rom 9:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Cor 6:
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.



Glory to God,
Taken

You actually never addressed the verses which I raised, which teach, clearly, men will be repaid eternal life, not just ambiguous "rewards", for doing good--and, if they don't do good, they're storing up wrath for themselves, instead, and will die and not live.

I apologize--I am a simple person who just accepts what he reads in Scripture.

 

[GracePeace]

Ok, but the scripture says: "This is THE work of God....."

They asked, "How may WE work the works of God?" Jesus answers, "'God's works' He would have YOU to do is for YOU to believe in Me."

 

[Earburner]

So, am I wrong for quoting Scripture proving eternal life will be repaid doers of good?

In light of James 2:14-26 no, you are not wrong.
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The verses are not about judging our salvation, but rather our faith in God's ability to provide through us, the needs of/for helping others, when He personally brings it to our attention.

Such is the case for judging faith, but never does works judge the Gift of our eternal salvation.

 

[GracePeace]

In light of James 2:14-26 no, you are not wrong.
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The verses are not about judging our salvation, but rather our faith in God's ability to provide through us, the needs of/for helping others, when He personally brings it to our attention.

Such is the case for judging faith, but never does works judge the Gift of our eternal salvation.

So, are you saying you agree with those verses I raised--ie, that eternal life is repaid doers of good?