SALVATION: BY GRACE OR BY WORKS? A FALSE DICHOTOMY

[Behold]

Again God is completely guilty.

Man is guilty before God.

God is not guilty before man..

God gave "man" the right to choose, and "man" chose rebellion.

This does not make God guilty......it just proves that man rebelled.

All sin, is rebellion that is based on Lust that is found in the heart.

 

[Titus]

No, it's a true dichotomy. The options and consequences are:

1. Salvation by grace requires no works on our part.
2. Salvation by works requires no humility on our part

You do not understand Grace.
You do not understand works.

The only way to recieve Grace is to obey Gods commandment of belief in Jesus Christ.

Gods Grace is not freely given to the prideful unbeliever.

1John 3:23-24,
- and this is Gods commandment that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us us
-- whoever keeps His commandments abides in God and God in him and by this we know that He abides in us by the Spirit whom He has given us

Obeying and keeping Gods commandments is how we know we have the Spirit.
Unfortunately Wrangler thinks that one cannot be humble to believe we must work Gods commandment to believe in order to receive Gods grace noted below,

Salvation by works requires no humility on our part.

Just the opposite is taught in Scripture.
It is the humble man that submits to God by obeying His commandments like believing in the Son.
2Thessalonians 1:8,
- in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God
And that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

Hebrews 5:8-9,
- and being made perfect Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that  obey Him
Also the above statement by Wrangler is a misrepresentation of my beliefs.

I do not teach salvation by works.
I teach Grace is given when we submit to Gods commandments by believing in Jesus, 1John 3:23-24.

We are saved by Grace through faith not of works(earning our salvation by working for it)
The faith is our obedience to God, that God demands of us in order to be given His free gift of grace.
No amount of obedient works like faith can earn salvation. We must be saved by Gods grace.

That Grace is not given freely unless we obey Gods gospel commandments like belief,

John 6:28-29,
- and this is the work of God that you believe on the one whom He sent.

Jesus taught faith is a work because it is a commandment of God that we must obey in order to receive Gods grace.

So, it is impossible to be saved without working the works of God(faith).
Doing these works is an act of humility not pride as Wrangler mistakenly teaches.

Grace is conditional.
Upon our obedience to Gods gospel commandments.

Grace is a free gift because it is impossible to obtain grace by working for it.

 

[Wrangler]

You do not understand about Grace.
You do not understand about works.

The only way to recieve Grace is to obey Gods commandment of belief in Jesus Christ.

I've experienced Grace before I obeyed. Don't tell me I don't know it!

You only think you know ABOUT Grace but it is you who do not know Grace. Grace is unearned. If you receive it as a result of works (obeying commands) then you have reduced it to justice, getting what one earned. Then we may brag of our own merit.

 

[Titus]

I've experienced Grace before I obeyed. Don't tell me I don't know it

This is a statement that goes directly against the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Faith is obedience, 1John 3:23-24.
Faith is a commandment of God that we MUST OBEY IN ORDER TO BE GIVEN GRACE.

Wrangler claims he received grace BEFORE he obeyed.
Which means Wrangler was given Gods grace BEFORE Faith.

Wrangler is teaching he received Gods grace without faith.

This is doctrines of demons.

Justification is salvation.

James 2:24,
- you see then that a man is justified(Gods grace) by works and not by faith alone.

Wrangler said he received Gods grace before he obeyed!
Heresy!

John 8:24,
- Therefore I said you will die in your sins for if you do not believe(obedience) that I am He you will die in your sins

There is no way getting around this Biblical fact: Faith is a work according to Jesus!

John 6:28-29,
- and this is the work of God that you believe on the one whom He sent

 

[Behold]

Wrangler claims he received grace BEFORE he obeyed.

Hyper Calvinists teach that they are born again, before they are forgiven....so that they can THEN give God "faith", that isn't theirs.

"Crazy Calvinism".= "HYPER Calvinism".

A.) "doctrines of Devils'"

Hebrews 13:9

 

[Titus]

Hyper Calvinists teach that they are born again, before they are forgiven....so that they can THEN give God "faith", that isn't theirs.

"Crazy Calvinism".= "HYPER Calvinism".

A.) "doctrines of Devils'"

Hebrews 13:9

Amen, Amen, Amen