How can that be since the Revelation of Jesus Christ was to be sent specifically to seven Churches, not to Israel of Old.
Paul claimed 3 times that Rev 20:4 was a current reality.
- Thread starter Marty fox
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
How can that be since the Revelation of Jesus Christ was to be sent specifically to seven Churches, not to Israel of Old.
I find none. There will be no further need to the Gospel since the spiritual Kingdom of God shall be complete. The only people alive on the earth during Satan's little season shall be Christians, I believe few in number, and Gog & Magog under the power and authority of Satan, deceived and continuing to be deceived.
Where in that passage can we find the hardening in part shall be lifted from ethnic Israel once the last of the Gentiles have come in? Paul tells us that all Israel is saved through the Gentiles being grafted in with them, but he does not say the partial hardening of Israel in unbelief shall then be lifted. What would be the point, since the end of the thousand years, is when the seventh angel shall begin to sound that time shall be no longer? (Rev 10:5-7)
I agree David, and glad we find agreement in some things related to eschatology. But I think what you don't understand (could be wrong) is how we in physical body reign with Christ spiritually. Because we have had part in the resurrection life of Christ, who is the first resurrection from the dead to never die again. In this manner we reign with Him in the Kingdom of God in heaven through His Spirit in us. And that is the time, symbolized a thousand years come to an end. Yes, you're correct in understanding those still alive during Satan's little season do not stop spiritually reigning with Christ then.
Don't misunderstand me here. I am not saying the saints left alive during Satan's little season after time shall be no longer for the thousand years will not be physical warfare with great persecution and death for Christians alive then. I'm only trying to get you to understand the Kingdom of God as it exists in the Church though having people physically alive within is spiritual and not a physical Kingdom, nor shall it ever be a physical Kingdom of God upon this earth. I only bring this up because of how you interpret the prophets of Old, that all write of this age of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God that came with Christ, they all foretell would come, as though you expect it to come upon this earth for ONE thousand literal, physical years. Even though Christ has said His Kingdom is NOT of this world, and cannot be observed with physical eyes because the Kingdom of God is within us. A spiritual Kingdom that has come and is known and entered when man is born again of the Spirit of Christ.
Once proclaiming of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God has completed the task of bringing the last Gentile into the spiritual Kingdom of God there won't be any more need for sending out the Gospel. And the spiritual Kingdom of God will be complete when the thousand years have finished and Satan is set free. That's why John writes that in the DAYS when the seventh trumpet begins to sound, this specific TIME, symbolized a thousand years shall be no longer. But there shall still be given time on this earth for Satan to have his little season. This little season won't be for proclaiming the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, it will be for Satan to deceive those who are already deceived, John writes as Gog & Magog, which means enemies of the Gospel. IMO Satan is released that the awesome power and might of Almighty God will be on displayed as never before, after the saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and fire of God comes down from heaven that will consume the whole heavens and earth. Satan's little season will not be a time for people to be saved, it will be the last of these last days we've been living in since Christ came with the spiritual Kingdom of God to be taken unto all earth. A TIME symbolized a/the thousand years.
As long as the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is still being proclaimed in the earth and those who were before hearing the Gospel are saved by grace through faith and enter into the spiritual Kingdom of God, being born again of Christ's Spirit, the strong man's (Satan) house is being plundered. His house is the bottomless pit, which symbolizes the grave, where before the cross and resurrection of Christ broke his power to hold the Gentiles nations in bondage to fear of death. Since Christ defeated death and gave all who believe in Him His Spirit, we are no longer under the bondage of fear to death, it has been broken because death of our body simply means our spirit alive leaves this earth an ascends to heaven a spiritual body of believers there.
It's only because this time symbolized a thousand years has ended Marty that saints can no longer reign with Christ is THIS TIME. How can they reign with Him in this symbolic time since it is no more? That doesn't mean we are not still reigning with Him during Satan's little season. Satan's little season comes AFTER the thousand years expire. That is NOT the same symbolic thousand years!
The binding of Satan by Christ's cross and resurrection was not about proclaiming the Gospel of the Kingdom of God unto all the nations of the world. It could not be proclaimed before the Gospel (Christ) literally came. The Gospel of the Kingdom of God to the nations was sent out with power and witnesses (resurrection from the dead) that Gentiles, who had never heard of the Messiah to come and redeem His people, would hear the Gospel preached and through the power of the Holy Spirit entering into them, they would believe in Christ for EVERLASTING LIFE. The fear of bondage to death they had been held in through the power of Satan for them was broken FOREVER. Because physical death no longer has any power over them, and they are given mighty assurance they will not be cast into the LOF that is the second death on Judgment Day.
This is what Premillennialists don't understand. And unfortunately, Amillennialists cause further confusion by saying Satan was bound so the Gospel of the Kingdom of God could not be hindered from being sent unto the nations of the world. The first time the Gospel was spoken was after the fall of man from the beginning. Then, though vague and through symbolism Christ is the promised SEED that God said would come from the woman to crush the head of the serpent. (Gen 3:14-15)
This is close David, and as you've shown Satan was cast out of heaven and bound to the earth when Christ was born. This is when Michael stood up for his people (Dan 12) But being cast out of heaven with great wrath and binding him to earth could not be accomplished before Christ was anointed through the Spirit, and displayed who He was and how He has supernatural power over Satan and death as He began to cast out devils and demons, heal the sick, and bring the dead back to life.
Though Israel of Old knew of a Messiah who would come and how He would redeem them from bondage to death, the Gentile nations of the world was known to few of them. The mystery that salvation had come to Gentiles, and they would complete the spiritual Kingdom of God was kept secret until Christ came and sent out disciples, especially the Apostle Paul to proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom of God to the Gentiles as well as to the Jews. This is why through His resurrection from the dead, Christ by defeating Satan's power to hold Gentiles in bondage to fear of death is broken forever.
I really hope this helps you to better understand what the binding of Satan through the first advent of Christ accomplished during this symbolic time a thousand years, and how Satan was not bound so the Gospel could be proclaimed, but that he was bound by ridding all who would believe in the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through the power of the Spirit are no longer in bondage to fear of dying. They have been set free of this fear, knowing the life they have through Christ is FOREVER.
All who are left alive on this earth after a thousand symbolic years and Satan's little season, will have already been set free from the fear of death when they believed the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and were saved forever, or they already belong to Satan, still held in bondage to fear of death because they remain in unbelief. Once this symbolic time has accomplished the purpose for which it is sent to the Gentiles nations of the earth, the spiritual Kingdom of God will be complete. There will be none who are called Gog & Magog who shall be saved during Satan's little season. Their fate is sealed forever and they shall die in their sins and at the GWTJ be cast into the LOF that is the second death.
It's not Amils that say the entire planet and heavens shall go up in the flames of God's wrath. That includes every human being still living on the earth at that time.
Are you certain the prophetic words of Ezekiel are referring to what shall pertain to the new earth? When you take the time to discern these prophetic words with what is written in John, I wonder if you might have more complete understanding of the waters Ezekiel's prophecy pertains to?
John 4:10-11 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
John 7:38-39 (KJV) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
If you continue to read the prophets of Old without fulfillment of what is written with more clarity from the New Testament, you will forever be confused into believing there will be one thousand more years given this earth for all that is coming to pass since the first coming of Christ during this time, symbolized a thousand years.
Who throughout the earth called Gog & Magog is going to come to a Christian to be saved. Gog means antichrists Magog means antichristians/antichristianity? In your opinion, what do you believe John means when he writes the two witnesses have been killed?
IMO, I believe Christians will know, and won't be surprised as others who are not looking and waiting for the Lord to come again. I believe we shall know because Satan and his minions will have silenced (spiritually killed) the two witnesses through lawfare, which I believe is the Word of God preached through the two witnesses. That means the Gospel of the Kingdom of God will have no purpose for being proclaimed, and will bring physical death and persecution through lawfare. IOW it will become written law for any faithful Christian desiring to share the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, and like it or not Christians are to obey those who have authority over them.
1 Peter 2:13-14 (KJV) Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1 Timothy 2:1-2 (KJV) I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
Just because Harold Camping erred greatly (I am familiar with his doctrine) greatly, you do greatly err also if you put all Amils with the same brush with his erroneous doctrine. There is one thing I highly praise Camping for, and that was his constant admonition to all who listened him, was "do not take my word for it, study for yourself." I'm really glad to see you now hold a healthy skepticism of what sayeth man, against what sayeth the Scriptures. AMEN!
LOL! Oh yeah, I've heard of him; he was quite the character. :)
Yes, he had a number of... ideas...
But I'm sure not all of what he believed was bad or wrong.Right; date-setting was always a bad idea. :) He actually left the Christian Reformed Church back in the 1980s and, having been Calvinist, departed from that also. And he taught annihilationism and a number of other things that were just terribly wrong, and, well, he was just a very interesting character.
Understood; that's fair. There are a lot of good people that fall into each of the millennial "camps," if you will, and generally speaking, they all "make sense." But that's certainly not to say that they are all right. So yeah, study away. I would recommend the following to you:
The Returning King: A Guide to the Book of Revelation; Dr. V.S. Poytress
Grace and peace to you.
"Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved..."
The 'until' there, RWB, says that what has preceded it, the partial hardening that is upon Israel, will be removed after what comes after it, the coming in of the fullness of the Gentiles.
Okay, then we disagree.
I'm not sure I follow your stream of thought here, RWB.
Grace and peace to you.
Do you have any evidence that the agreement made in Galatians 2:9 was ever rescinded? If not then we should be using this information as profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness.
Well unless you can show what event took place after 70AD and within their lifetime that was “coming upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth”, then I’ll stick with Revelation being written prior to 70AD.
Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
This is the diaspora, that John wrote to.
If the preaching of the gospel ends when Satan is loosed and believers continue to reign then you must conclude that preaching has nothing to do with reigning.
Those who were beheaded and reign in Revelation 20:4 were witnessing for Jesus and the word of God. Since the preaching/witnessing ends when Satan is loosed, what exactly is reigning with Christ, is it just salvation without works?
I don’t try to paint the whole Amill group with the same brush, I actually think Amill has many points that are valid that I agree with but when it comes to Satan being loosed I think Amill is incorrect.
It seems that Amill can clearly identify when Satan was bound, but they all seem to have an issue with claiming definitively that he is loosed (except for people like Harold Camping). If the evidence of Satan being loosed is that no one else is being saved, then shouldn’t Amill churches be keeping records of people becoming saved and when perhaps several months have passed where no one becomes saved then they can declare Satan is loosed? Wouldn’t this be extremely important information for Amill? Do you know of any program such as this going on?
The reality is that if a church claims Satan is loosed and someone gets saved the next week they are now placed in the “false prophet” camp. Amill are always wondering if Satan is loosed but can never definitively say so, and this situation has been going on for who knows how long, probably ever since the year 1,000 Ad.
Similar threads
