Paul claimed 3 times that Rev 20:4 was a current reality.

[Zao is life]

You've confused the spiritual body that is of the Kingdom of God in heaven with the physical body that shall be raised immortal and incorruptible when the last trumpet sounds. As Paul has shown when the man of faith physically dies their body returns to dust, and is rasied a spiritual body of believers to heaven.


I'm happy to be in good company through the Apostle Paul. And also in good company with Solomon who tells us that when our body dies it returns to dust and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Also in good company with Christ who tells us the life we have when we are born again of His Spirit is everlasting/eternal life that shall never die. You on the other hand with your continual guessing have sadly guessed wrong once again.

God only created one body for Adam. God only gave you one body.

We all can praise God that the separation of the spirit from the body (death) has been undone - defeated through Christ's death and resurrection.

We can praise God that the resurrection the scriptures teach us about, is the resurrection of the body. Nothing else.

When you were born into the word you had received life from your parents. You had no life before then. You had not died and had not been "resurrected" from death.

When you were born of the Spirit of God you received eternal life from God, through Christ's death and bodily resurrection. You had no eternal life before then. You had not died and had not been "resurrected" from death.

@rwb So whatever the source is of your illusion of a 'spiritual' resurrection, Paul agrees with me that it's false. You should be happy about that because indeed we are in good company in his company. He never enjoyed his teaching being corrupted while he was alive (zao) in the body though.

 

[ScottA]

You are fighting against Christ. You twist scripture and then claim or at least imply that anyone who disagrees and exposes your error, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

You really are puffed up. But your words are what you will answer to Christ for (not me), and you will not be able to accuse Him of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit when He tells you that your doctrine was wrong and asks why you falsely accused one of His flock of blaspheming the Holy Spirit when disagreeing with you and your own doctrine.

You're a disgrace. I feel sorry for you in that great Day of Christ.

Goodbye

I did not "disagree" with you, nor have I given you anything that is mine against what you have presented, but have only shown you by the scriptures the error of many including yourself. God knows.

 

[Zao is life]

I did not "disagree" with you, nor have I given you anything that is mine against what you have presented, but have only shown you by the scriptures the error of many including yourself. God knows.

I haven't read anything you said above. You are on my ignore list. I just haven't pressed the ignore buttton.

You are a disgrace, IMO. Telling those bought by Christ with His blood that they are placing evil for good when they disagree with all your (false and unbiblical) doctrine, and accusing them of blaspheming the Holy Spirit because they disagree with what you claim scripture is saying.

There are many Pre-millennialists (not all in these boards) who agree with what I've said who you have likewise falsely accused.

Whatever you say is not worth reading.

 

[ScottA]

I haven't read anything you said above. You are on my ignore list. I just haven't pressed the ignore buttton.

You are a disgrace, IMO. Telling those bought by Christ with His blood that they are placing evil for good when they disagree with all your (false and unbiblical) doctrine, and accusing them of blaspheming the Holy Spirit because they disagree with what you claim scripture is saying.

There are many Pre-millennialists (not all in these boards) who agree with what I've said who you have likewise falsely accused.

Whatever you say is not worth reading.

PS, ...and you don't listen very well. Or is it your comprehension?

 

[grafted branch]

I'm not following your argument GB. The beheaded of vs 4 are not of the rest of the dead in vs 5. They are both (4&5) the physically dead, but only those martyred in vs 4 are spiritually alive after they have been killed. So they are no longer of the dead, because death of their mortal body did not kill their spirit that is spiritually alive in heaven through the Holy Spirit in them. The dead in vs 5 are the DEAD because they have died in unbelief. Unlike the martyred in vs 4 who are still alive after physical death, the DEAD shall not live again until time symbolized a thousand years has ended. They will not be raised to live again on this earth, they will be bodily raised for judgment and the second death.

Let me put it this way, there is a single, initial group of dead people in Revelation 20 that is shown to contain two subgroups. One part of that initial group (a subgroup) lives and reigns with Christ, the other part of that initial group (another subgroup), aka the rest of the dead, live after the thousand years. The phrase “rest of the dead” implies they are part of the larger initial group. Would you agree with this?

If so then the initial group of dead people, which includes both subgroups, are all either physically or figuratively dead.

If you agree so far then it seems you see this initial group as being physically dead, meaning both subgroups are physically dead. You also seem to understand that other scriptures show that the physically dead unbelievers, aka the rest of the dead per your view, aren’t raised or live again until the final day or last trumpet.

Revelation 20:5 shows the rest of the dead living after the thousand years, not at the final day or last trumpet but prior to it. This is the problem with saying the initial group of dead is meant as being physically dead.

Why do you think vs 5 and vs 11-15 are not one and the same raising of the DEAD to stand before God at the GWTJ?

Because Revelation 20:5 shows the rest of the dead living again at the same time Satans little season starts, which doesn’t agree with what happens at the GWT judgement.

 

[Timtofly]

I agree! Christ is telling us He is the resurrection and the life, being the first resurrection to physical life who shall never die again. And the only way that mankind may still be alive after physical death is if in life they have part in the resurrection life of Christ who is the "first resurrection" and the only one that gives us both everlasting spiritual life, as well as immortal physical life when the last trumpet sounds.

Lazarus was the first physical resurrection when Jesus said He was the Resurrection and the Life. Why do you deny that point?

"Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

This conversation was all about the physical resurrection of Lazarus out of his grave. Jesus and Martha were not talking about the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Why did Jesus need to believe in Jesus to be the first resurrection?

Neither Jesus nor Martha said Lazarus would rise at the last Trumpet. The Cross was the last day resurrection Martha was talking about. Are you going to conflate the Trumpet sounding with that last day resurrection?

"Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God? Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me."

"And the Jews' passover was nigh at hand: and many went out of the country up to Jerusalem before the passover, to purify themselves."

Lazarus was resurrected just days before the Cross, and the last day resurrection of the OT redeemed out of Abraham's bosom. Should God had waited to take away the life of Lazarus until after the Cross to prove Jesus was the Resurrection and the Life?

The point was that there was a physical resurrection, not that you all need to fit theology into your presuppositions. That only Jesus could physically be resurrected and no one else until a last trumpet sounds. The physical resurrection is because of the obedience of Jesus on the Cross, but the physical resurrection is on an individual basis, not corporate symbolism. One could say that Lazarus and all the OT in Christ have been physically resurrected and have reigned with Christ for almost 1994 years. You don't even need Revelation 20 for that to be real. That does not negate a pre-mill second coming. The point of pre-mill does not agree with the trumped up theology calling for a last trumpet resurrection. Amil do not account for the 2,000 year fulness of the Gentiles, nor the future reign of Christ as King on the earth for a thousand years.

Can you explain how the Cross was not a last day event for the OT Covenant? Do some conflate a resurrection with the Cross, or is that just logical timing on God's part? While many accept Lazarus being dead 4 days yet brought back to life was only temporary, it was a physical resurrection, because Lazarus was dead longer than Jesus was. In fact, Martha was expecting a stinking rotting body to emerge. Many may also claim all who had a physical resurrection in those two weeks, also died again, because they deny what the first resurrection is. Then they should only expect to have a temporary first resurrection themselves to be consistent in their definition of a first resurrection. The only reason that not many could recall that first resurrection for those from the OT including Lazarus, was because they all ascended with Christ in permanent incorruptible physical bodies on Sunday morning. Not even Lazarus was on earth for more than 14 days, after his first/physical resurrection. His resurrection being only the week prior to the Cross.

 

[Timtofly]

So the day after the thousand years are ended are the rest of the dead alive or not? If not, then they don’t live again after the thousand years are finished which is in contradiction to Revelation 20/5.

Technically it is not a contradiction if they are not resurrected. The verse does not say they will be resurrected after a thousand years. The verse implies through a negative thought no one can be resurrected during those 1,000 years. Which means it is not an ongoing phenomenon as some claim, where they are constantly dying and being resurrected.

There was a resurrection. None of those resurrected ever died again, nor even were born during those thousand years. After the thousand years, some may be resurrected, but the only way, would be if they repented at the GWT Judgment, and God did not toss them into the LOF, but granted them a physical resurrection, to eternal life. Thus they also would experience a first/physical resurrection, and be blessed also by avoiding the second death in the LOF.

The rest of the dead in Revelation 20:5 would be all the souls from all time still waiting in sheol for a resurrection. Not just those who physically died in the previous 10 years, like those beheaded. One cannot say at the GWT they received the first resurrection and then tossed into the LOF. The first resurrection prevents a soul from being tossed into the LOF. If any soul is resurrected at the GWT Judgment event it would be to eternal life, not just to be tossed into the LOF.

 

[grafted branch]

Technically it is not a contradiction if they are not resurrected. The verse does not say they will be resurrected after a thousand years. The verse implies through a negative thought no one can be resurrected during those 1,000 years. Which means it is not an ongoing phenomenon as some claim, where they are constantly dying and being resurrected.

I agree, I don’t think the dead that live again is meant as them being resurrected.

The rest of the dead in Revelation 20:5 would be all the souls from all time still waiting in sheol for a resurrection.

If you see the “rest of the dead” as those is Sheol and when they live again it’s not a resurrection, then what is it?

 

[ewq1938]

@Davidpt I have a slight question mark (slight) as to why no anastasis (resurrection of the body) or zao (alive in the body) is mentioned when death and hades deliver up the dead in them and the dead (not the living) are seen by John standing for judgment, but Revelation 20:5 does imply that they will be bodily resurrected by saying, "But the rest of the dead did not live (in the body) again [anazáō] until the thousand years were finished."

Since it is prophesied in verse 5, there is no need to state it a second time. Also, to die a second death means they would have to be alive again after having been dead.

 

[rwb]

God only created one body for Adam. God only gave you one body.

We all can praise God that the separation of the spirit from the body (death) has been undone - defeated through Christ's death and resurrection.

We can praise God that the resurrection the scriptures teach us about, is the resurrection of the body. Nothing else.

When you were born into the word you had received life from your parents. You had no life before then. You had not died and had not been "resurrected" from death.

When you were born of the Spirit of God you received eternal life from God, through Christ's death and bodily resurrection. You had no eternal life before then. You had not died and had not been "resurrected" from death.

@rwb So whatever the source is of your illusion of a 'spiritual' resurrection, Paul agrees with me that it's false. You should be happy about that because indeed we are in good company in his company. He never enjoyed his teaching being corrupted while he was alive (zao) in the body though.

God gave every living breathing creature upon the earth a body + spirit (breath of life) and every living breathing creature upon the earth became a living soul. I've never said man without being born again has the Spirit of God within. In fact I have gone out of my way in repeating this truth that a man must be born again of the Spirit to have everlasting life. It is by partaking of the first resurrection that man overcomes the second death. The way man partakes of the first resurrection that is the resurrection of Christ, is to be born again of His Spirit. Then the life we HAVE through His Spirit is eternal/everlasting life that shall never die. That's why Paul writes that when our body is dead and returns to dust, we as a spiritual body of believers continue to be living souls in heaven without physical form.

I have no idea of what in the world you might be trying to say here: "When you were born into the word you had received life from your parents. You had no life before then. You had not died and had not been "resurrected" from death."???

 

[Marty fox]

Here we go with this nonsense again. It was nonsense when you used this argument on BF years ago, it's still equally nonsensical now.

Here's the reason why it's nonsense.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


The text plainly, thus undeniably, says that the thousand years are expired at this point. That means what ever era of time the thousand years are involving, that era of time is now entirely in the past. What is that era of time involving? It's involving satan being in the pit and saints reigning with Christ while he is in the pit. Not one single thing from this point on is still involving the thousand years. Not to mention, in regards to the saints that come back to life, the text plainly indicates they lived again and reign with Christ a thousand years, not a thousand years and a little season instead.

If Amil is the correct position then prove it via what is written rather than adding things to the texts not found in the texts. Nowhere in the text does it say that the thousand years expired yet again, meaning after satan's little season.

That’s because you are focusing on one set of a thousand years and rev 20 separates the two thousand years

So yes verse 7 is the end of satans binding for a thousand years that started in verse 2.

But then in verse 4 a second set of thousand years starts the reigning starts we know this for two reasons

The first reason is because verse 5 shows us that the rest of the dead raise after the thousand years ends and we see the rest of the dead being raised in verses 11 and 12

Verses 11 and 12 are after satans thousand year binding ends

Verses 11 and 12 are after satans gathering the nations to attack the people of God

Verses 11 and 12 are after satans defeat and being cast into the lake of fire

Verses 11 and 12 are after fire comes down from heaven and destroys the ungodly

Do you finally see it yet?

Verse 5 can’t be true if they don’t raise after satans thousand year binding ends

This proves two sets of a thousand years one the binding and one the reigning which have different end times

If that isn’t enough proof then ask yourself does Jesus reign because satan is bound or does Jesus reign because He is God?

Jesus reigns forever not forever accept for satans little season if not then the verse below can’t be true either

Revelation 1:6
and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

 

[Davidpt]

And the scripture says that it's raised a body - a spiritual body, and the scripture says that it's not raised a spiritual body when it dies. It's raised a spiritual body - for most - long after it dies - on the day of the Resurrection, when Christ returns, as the rest of the 1 Corinthians 15 passage where you are isolating the verse from, says, as well as 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 says:

1 Corinthians 15
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming.

Whether or not Paul agrees with my guess as to how exactly you came to your strange and unbiblical notion of a 'spiritual' resurrection from the only place in the New Testament that says the body will be raised a spiritual body, makes no difference.

Your interpretation of the statement by linking it to a 'spiritual' resurrection that not one New Testament word or verse talking about resurrection talks about, is false and based on your own thinking, not biblical thinking - because all the words and verses talking about resurrection in the New Testament are talking about the resurrection of the body - including Ephesians 2:6, which as I have already explained to you, is talking about Christ's bodily resurrection and the fact that in spirit, through His Spirit dwelling in us while we are alive in the body here on earth, we have been raised with HIS bodily resurrection.

But you cannot understand this, because you have it linked to the spiritual body that 1 Corinthians 15:44 is talking about, while you ignore that Paul also said that while we are here on earth our bodies are dead because of sin:

9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.
10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your life because of (Christ's) righteousness.
11 Moreover if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you.

Sorry, but the resurrection you claim has come will only come when Christ's perousia sets it in motion - because the resurrection that the New Testament talks about is always only talking about the resurrection of the body, no matter which word is being used and in each and every single verse it's found in.

Being quickened by the Spirit of Christ when you were quickened with Him and being bodily raised with His resurrection even while you are alive in your dead body here on earth does not equate with your false notion of a 'spiritual' resurrection, as I have already explained to you, numerous times.

And as I have explained to you numerous times you were quickened (made alive with Christ) when you received eternal life after having been born of the Spirit, and this birth again does not equate with "resurrection" from anything, any more than we were "resurrected" from something when we were born of the flesh.

When you were born into the world you had received life from your parents. You had no life before then. You had not died and had not been "resurrected" from death.

@rwb When you were born of the Spirit of God you received eternal life from God, through Christ's death and bodily resurrection. You had no eternal life before then. You had not died and had not been "resurrected" from death.

So whatever the source is of your illusion of a 'spiritual' resurrection, Paul agrees with me that it's false.

Resurrection

All New Testament verses talking about resurrection and the resurrection are quoted below this article. M ankind was created to live on t...

zaoislife.blogspot.com

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

All one needs to do is interpret the rest of this chapter in light of this part, meaning pertaining to a resurrection. Clearly, nothing in these above verses are being applied to the here and now every time someone becomes born again. This context is involving literally bodily rising from the dead. None of it is pertaining to a resurrection in the sense Amils take the first resurrection in Reveation 20 to be involving.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


None of this is remotely meaning in the sense Amils take take the first resurrection in Reveation 20 to be involving. It's clearly involving a bodily resurrection. Amils of course likely have no disagreements thus far.


Now we get to this context involving verses 35-50, keeping in mind, up until this point there is zero involving a resurrection the way Amils are taking the first resurrection in Reveation 20 to be involving.

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


This is so crystal clear that I can't even believe some think there is another way to interpret this rather than the proper way? Look what verse 42 says. Now compare that to verses 51-57. Are some going to argue that those verses aren't involving a bodily resurrection either since verse 44 allegedly isn't?

Verse 42 says this--It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption

Verse 52 and 53 says this, the same thing verse 42 says---For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

So, how is it then, that in verse 42 and 43 the context is a bodily resurrection, but when we get to verse 44 now all of a sudden the context is no longer involving a bodily resurrection, it is involving a spiritual resurrection in the same sense Amils take the first resurrection in Revelation 20 to be meaning?

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

This is simple. This part--It is sown a natural body--is pertaining to this---It is sown in corruption. And this part---it is raised a spiritual body---is pertaining to this---it is raised in incorruption---the very same things verses 51-57 are involving.

Clearly then, I fully agree with you about verse 44 because Paul and the Bible fully agrees with you as well.

Amils insist they are interpreting the first resurrection per Revelation 20 correctly but can't even interpret 1 Corinthians 15:44 correctly if they are applying that in the same manner they are applying the first resurrection per Revelation 20. Clearly, 1 Corinthians 15:44 is not pertaining to passed away saints dwelling in heaven in a disembodied state, it is instead referring to passed away saints that rise from the dead bodily, and that they receive a spiritual body that can never die. Except none of that happens until the last trump. Verse 44 is obviously being applied to the last trump, not the here and now instead. But what do we Premils know, right? After all, we supposedly are unable to interpret the first resurrection per Revelation 20 correctly, so it's no wonder then that we are confused about 1 Corinthians 15:44 and misinterpret it as well. Except we are not confused about verse 44 nor are we misinterpreting it.

 

[Marty fox]

I really don't understand what you mean here Marty? If being spiritually alive in Christ after physical death, and the binding of Satan began at the cross, why do you say they are different thousand years of time?

I agree the binding of Satan ends when the thousand years expire. But that is because that marks the end of time given the Church for building the Kingdom of God through the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit. That will be the end of time because the last Gentile to be saved has entered the Kingdom of God through Christ's Spirit in them. That means the mystery is fulfilled, the Kingdom of God is complete as the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. No more time for building is needed after the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete. The time has come when the last trumpet sounds time shall be no longer, and Satan is set free for his little season.

If you read 20:4 through the correct translation, you should understand that those martyred for their faith BEFORE THEY DIE, lived (past tense) and reigned (past tense) with Christ during this symbolic time a thousand years. IOW faithful saints live and reign with Christ after we are born again of His Spirit during our lives before we die. Once we die and our spirit returns to God who gave it, a spiritual body of believers in heaven, we are with the Lord because before we died, we lived and reigned with Him on earth.

After Satan has his little season for persecuting Christ and Christians still alive on the earth during this time, the faithful saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the air as the fire of God's wrath is poured out upon the earth. The saints caught up together are both those who have died and are resurrected from the graves and all who are still living caught up together to meet the Lord.

Those who died in unbelief are resurrected to damnation (GWTJ & LOF), while those alive with Satan on the earth, called Gog (antichrists) and Magog (antichristian party) are among the dead because they will be burned up with Satan by the fire that comes down from God.

This all happens during this time symbolized a thousand years that began with the first advent of Christ and shall end when this symbolic time shall be no longer (Rev 10:5-7). The thousand years, symbolizing time is the whole era for proclaiming the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

Yes I agreed with what you says happens here except for when the reigning ends see post #111

 

[rwb]

Let me put it this way, there is a single, initial group of dead people in Revelation 20 that is shown to contain two subgroups. One part of that initial group (a subgroup) lives and reigns with Christ, the other part of that initial group (another subgroup), aka the rest of the dead, live after the thousand years. The phrase “rest of the dead” implies they are part of the larger initial group. Would you agree with this?

The two groups of those who are dead is (1) vs 4 those who have lived and reigned during time (symbolized a thousand years) with Christ before they were killed for their faith (2) vs 5 the rest of the dead who in life had not lived and reigned with Christ in time (a thousand years) before they died. Both will be bodily resurrected to life in an hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds. Those who have lived and reigned with Christ during time (a thousand years) before they were killed will be resurrected with immortal & incorruptible physical bodies. Those who have NOT lived and reigned with during time (a thousand years) before they died will be bodily resurrected for damnation.

If so then the initial group of dead people, which includes both subgroups, are all either physically or figuratively dead.

The physically dead are those of vs 4 & 5.

If you agree so far then it seems you see this initial group as being physically dead, meaning both subgroups are physically dead. You also seem to understand that other scriptures show that the physically dead unbelievers, aka the rest of the dead per your view, aren’t raised or live again until the final day or last trumpet.

That's not my view, it is what the Bible tells us in Jo 5:28-29 and 1Cor 15:51-53 and Christ repeatedly tells us in John 6 that those who die in faith shall be raised up on the last day. There are none physically resurrected to never die again before an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds on the last day.

Revelation 20:5 shows the rest of the dead living after the thousand years, not at the final day or last trumpet but prior to it. This is the problem with saying the initial group of dead is meant as being physically dead.

No it doesn't! It says the rest of the dead shall live again until the thousand years of time is finished. That will be in an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. It really makes little difference if the rest of the dead are physically dead or spiritually dead, they are NOT among those who lived and reigned in time (a thousand years) before they died. Nor are they with those of vs 6 who shall reign with Christ in time (a thousand years) "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years". Only those alive in heaven after physical death are no longer counted with the DEAD, as well as those who are not with those martyred for their faith, but who shall also reign with Christ in time (a thousand years).

Only the rest of the dead, who were not faithful unto death are of the DEAD who shall not have life again until after time (a thousand years) is finished, and that will be in an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds on the last day of this age. After Satan's little season the DEAD shall be called before the GWTJ to give account of their lives according to what is written in the books and the book of life. Then they will be cast into the LOF that is the second death.

Because Revelation 20:5 shows the rest of the dead living again at the same time Satans little season starts, which doesn’t agree with what happens at the GWT judgement.

No, it doesn't! John writes the DEAD shall be resurrected for judgment after the thousand years have ended and after Satan has his little season.

Revelation 20:7-15 (KJV) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[rwb]

This is simple. This part--It is sown a natural body--is pertaining to this---It is sown in corruption. And this part---it is raised a spiritual body---is pertaining to this---it is raised in incorruption---the very same things verses 51-57 are involving.

Then why does Paul write in 1Cor 15:51-57 not only of the body raised being changed from corruptible to incorruptible but also from mortal to immortal because flesh and blood, nor corruption can inherit the Kingdom of God?

1 Corinthians 15:50 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:51-57 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Clearly, Paul is here speaking of the physical resurrection and change that shall be for all who die in faith when the last trumpet shall sound. It was sown a natural body but is raised a spiritual body through the eternal/everlasting spirit life we have when we are born again of the Spirit of God within. Paul even tells us how our immortal & incorruptible body will be given life through our spirit that returns with Christ.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-15 (KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Paul clearly tells all who will hear him that when our body of flesh returns to the earth in death, believers ascend to heaven a spiritual body of believers there to wait with Christ for the last trumpet to sound. It is only the physical body of man that is mortal (destined to die), the spirit within having the Spirit of Christ HAS eternal/everlasting life and shall never die. So death of the mortal, corruptible physical body cannot kill the spirit that returns to God who gave it (Ecc 12:7).

 

[rwb]

Yes I agreed with what you says happens here except for when the reigning ends see post #111

There is only one thousand year period of time mentioned only in the Revelation. The thousand years symbolically represents TIME from the first advent of Christ until the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no longer. Satan is bound during the same period of TIME the Church is sent out to proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom of God that the Kingdom of God will be complete as Gentiles enter into the Kingdom of God when they hear the Gospel and believe in Christ for everlasting life.

The reason Satan is bound is to prevent him from holding Gentiles who have never heard of the Messiah/Redeemer, Christ Jesus our Lord in bondage to death. Any Gentile that hears the Gospel proclaimed and by grace through faith turns to Christ for everlasting life have no more fear of death, they have been set free of this fear, knowing the life they receive through Christ is FOREVER, and not even physical death can take away the life they receive through the Spirit of Christ in them.

I agree with you that Satan was not bound so the Gospel could be preached to Gentiles, the Gospel of Christ has been preached from the beginning of creation. There Christ is shown as the Seed that shall come into the world to crush the head of the serpent. No, the reason Satan is now bound since the first advent of Christ was to take away the power he had to hold people in bondage to fear of death. Christ bound him by HIs cross and resurrection, and then Christ went down into Satan's domain of darkness and death and set the captives free. Those who hear the Gospel and believe in Christ have been set free and John writes that death could not take those martyred for their faith because the Spirit gives them everlasting life.

Hebrews 2:13-15 (KJV) And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

A thousand years symbolizes TIME Marty, and THIS TIME shall be no longer when the seventh trumpet begins to sound. There is not break in this TIME, for it has marched on without interruption from the beginning of the Gospel of grace age/era/time.

 

[rwb]

Verse 5 can’t be true if they don’t raise after satans thousand year binding ends

They are raised after not only the thousand years have ended, but also Satan's little season. They are not raised to physical life to live again, they are raised to life again for judgment and to be cast into the lake of fire that is the second death.

 

[Marty fox]

They are raised after not only the thousand years have ended, but also Satan's little season. They are not raised to physical life to live again, they are raised to life again for judgment and to be cast into the lake of fire that is the second death.

Yes that is what I believe

 

[Marty fox]

There is only one thousand year period of time mentioned only in the Revelation. The thousand years symbolically represents TIME from the first advent of Christ until the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no longer. Satan is bound during the same period of TIME the Church is sent out to proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom of God that the Kingdom of God will be complete as Gentiles enter into the Kingdom of God when they hear the Gospel and believe in Christ for everlasting life.

The reason Satan is bound is to prevent him from holding Gentiles who have never heard of the Messiah/Redeemer, Christ Jesus our Lord in bondage to death. Any Gentile that hears the Gospel proclaimed and by grace through faith turns to Christ for everlasting life have no more fear of death, they have been set free of this fear, knowing the life they receive through Christ is FOREVER, and not even physical death can take away the life they receive through the Spirit of Christ in them.

I agree with you that Satan was not bound so the Gospel could be preached to Gentiles, the Gospel of Christ has been preached from the beginning of creation. There Christ is shown as the Seed that shall come into the world to crush the head of the serpent. No, the reason Satan is now bound since the first advent of Christ was to take away the power he had to hold people in bondage to fear of death. Christ bound him by HIs cross and resurrection, and then Christ went down into Satan's domain of darkness and death and set the captives free. Those who hear the Gospel and believe in Christ have been set free and John writes that death could not take those martyred for their faith because the Spirit gives them everlasting life.

Hebrews 2:13-15 (KJV) And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

A thousand years symbolizes TIME Marty, and THIS TIME shall be no longer when the seventh trumpet begins to sound. There is not break in this TIME, for it has marched on without interruption from the beginning of the Gospel of grace age/era/time.

So when the thousand years ends and satan is released do you not think that Jesus and us still reigns?

 

[Timtofly]

Do you believe the rest of the dead will be raised to live life again on the earth? The dead are bodily resurrected to be condemned not to live again on the earth. Notice in vs 5 is does not say the rest of the dead are resurrected to life again. John writes only that the dead do NOT live again. Why doesn't John say the rest of the dead shall be resurrected to life again when the thousand years are finished? Could it be because they are NOT bodily/physically resurrected to life to live again, but to be judged and cast into the lake of fire that is the second death? Theirs shall not be a resurrection to life as are the dead who have in life done good. Theirs shall be a resurrection of damnation, because in life they had not part in the first resurrection that is the resurrection life through Christ, and therefore they shall not be saved from the second death.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

You cannot use this verse to prove your point. All those redeemed were already resurrected, and you even say recieved the first resurrection.

Your scenario means many get the first resurrection twice, once in life and the second time after physical death. You cannot have it happening both ways. In fact over the last 2 millenia you have many who receive the first resurrection in life, and then again at the GWT Judgment which you claim is the only resurrection, when that last trumpet sounds.