The Didache on the coming of the world-deceiver: What 1st and 2nd century saints were taught

[ewq1938]

I don’t think Rev 6:2 is Christ.

Neither do I, which is why I cited it. It's a counterfeit designed to mimic or seem like Christ.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Neither do I, which is why I cited it. It's a counterfeit designed to mimic or seem like Christ.

I thought that was the case..that was a good post!

 

[Zao is life]

Which is his beast, his kingdom that he rules.

Keep in mind Daniels ten horned beast is a kingdom not a person. √

The person is the little horn. In Rev the ten horned beast is still a kingdom not a person √

but the singular person is a separate beast rather than a new horn on the ten horned beast. √

The English hides it, but the FP has two little horns of a lambkin. That is a direct relation and nod to Daniels little horn, just new aned improved in the newer vision of these things. √

Note that Paul doesn't mention a ten horned kingdom being worshipped. √

No two books contain the same info. Paul's miracle worker is worshipped, √

John's miracle worker directs worship to his own kingdom √

Yes it's like Joseph receiving all the power and authority from Pharaoh and reigning over the kingdom of Pharaoh "before him". The 10 kings reign for 1 hour with the beast, and they are said in Revelation 17 to hand over their power and authority to him.​

but it's really two sides of the same coin. √​

The part to take note of is the singular person performing miracles to deceive and some type worship taking place.√

Thank you. It makes sense if the little horn of the kingdom (Daniel 7:8) is not a different person to:
​

1. The beast from the earth (Revelation 13:11).​
2. The 8th king (Revelation 17:11) into whose hands the 10 kings place all their power and authority.​
3. The son of perdition of 2 Thessalonians 2:4.​

My mistake was to have (2) linked to both Daniel 7:8 and Revelation 13:2-8 (but not Revelation 13:11), but the beast of Revelation 13:2-8 is the kingdom, not one man - and that's where my mistake lies - turning the kingdom of the beast (Revelation 13:2-8) into the son of perdition himself (and I realize now that I was doing this in my mind because of what is written in Revelation 13:5-6 & 8).​

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

anti means "instead of" or an "impersonator of

I would define one as against, in opposition to, an enemy of whom one hates, rebels against as many of us once were. Oh, I wouldn't say I hated him, I was just blind, rebellious, indifferent, dismissive to anyone trying to proselytize me. But then the Father had other plans, praise God.

This is because Christ was a prophet, so satan will impersonate Christ as a false prophet, a false lamb, a false king, a false god...and on and on...all these things are done through the role of AC.

Yes this is a view that is popular among Pre-Millennialists, just not mine. But then as I said, when He comes IF this assumption was true, he will claim to be the Christ or Jesus himself. I am aware of Mat. 24:24, just don't think this will be his approach. Why? Well check out post #28. If he is an Islamic leader, Muslims do believe that Christ was a prophet, but not the Son of God, they don't believe that he isbir was tue Savior, they believe Mohammad was a more significant prophet. Therefore he would not pretend to be Jesus. He would say no I am God, the Christians were wrong and therefore I ambgoingbti rid the planet of the Jews andbthe Christians since they will not bow down to me obey me or believe in me. This anti-Christian theme is spreading. Even in the USA, the Demsbare saying "these Christian nationalists" are a threat to this country" Outragious! In our generation this country has had anti-Christs pushing against our heritage as a Christian nation. Starting from 1962, they have remove prayer from schools, then abortion came, liberal secular indoctrination in schools against Biblical fundamentals promoting Evolution ... now Gay marriage. Satan is not trying to imitateor impersonate Christ, he is trying to destroy him and all that he represents and us as well for being against him.

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isaiah 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Lucifer's historical fall to become Satan.

Christ is God, so to impersonate Christ in the tribulation is to show yourself as "God"

Not if you are from an entirely different religion created by Satan. Islam is waiting for their version who is not Christ but above him. This leader will do and say everything against Christ, hence persecute Christianity. Check out what has been going in in Sudan. Christians are suffering this persecution, getting their heads chopped off and feeling to the south. That has been their modus operandi since their founding. To occupying territories in war, force conversions to their religion or face the consequences: death or being exiled from your home and country.
Are they trying to impersonate Christ. No.
_________^<<_________<<<___

About Rev. 6:2, the AC was given a crown, diadem and bow and went out to conquer. Jesus already has all authority in heaven and on earth. But thought the item of the crown was interesting. He is not wearing it. Corona virus looks like a crown, hence the name. Is it coincidental that this virus was spread throughout the globe as if conquering it in a short time, and the powers tha5 he controlled our everyday of life, lockdowns, forced selective business closures, masking, distancing and vaccinations. It was like a dress rehearsal for what us to come ... and we went along with it, got in line ... I didn't didn't take the jab, but many did. The mark will be issued likely in the same way.
________
Aside from all that, you offered a very good argument, good job, thorough ... it is a popular Pre-Mil view.

 

[Zao is life]

I believe Lucifer is satan and that the antichrist is either satan in disguise, or a person satan possesses.

Jesus called Judas Iscariot the son of perdition (John 17:12). Satan entered into Judas (John 13:27). The only other person called the son of perdition in the New Testament, is the man of sin of 2 Thessalonians 2.

Just a bit of info for those who might read your post.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus called Judas Iscariot the son of perdition (John 17:12). Satan entered into Judas (John 13:27). The only other person called the son of perdition in the New Testament, is the man of sin of 2 Thessalonians 2.

This is similar to how Peter was called satan when Christ spoke to him. Satan also entered him.

Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

 

[Zao is life]

This is similar to how Peter was called satan when Christ spoke to him. Satan also entered him.

Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

It's a study on its own. Personally I haven't ever interpreted that as Satan actually entered into Peter. Peter's motive for standing up for the status and dignity of Christ was completely different to Judas' motive for betraying him. I think it's more to do with Jesus understanding that Satan was behind those words, tempting Christ to believe them or to "feel sorry for himself", but Jesus knew that in the case of Peter, "the road to hell is paved with many good intentions". However, Jesus needed to address the spirit behind Peter's words.

I think that Judas Iscariot did become temporarily possessed by Satan.

I'm not saying my way of interpreting everything is always correct, though.​

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Again, it is not referring to any Jewish people you know. The book of Revelation deals with the Jewish people before Christ left the earth. There are no Jews now which I have tried to tell you a billion times and you will not hear me because you see the Scriptures through your own eyes and I see the Bible through God's eyes.

Wow ... lol .. what statement! Over 15 million Jews are just imagining themselves to be Jewish, have faith in the God of the Old Testament, attend Synagogue and by golly they even formed their own imaginary nation of Israel in 1948, accepted and ratified by the UN. They are being attacked in Israel as we speak by the Hamas, Hezobolah and Iran, who all have mistaken them as Jews and lost their minds.
The Iranians as do most Muslims have a hatred towards people that you say don't exist. I guess they need to talk to Dr. PHIL about these imaginary people?

 

[Peterlag]

Wow ... lol .. what statement! Over 15 million Jews are just imagining themselves to be Jewish, have faith in the God of the Old Testament, attend Synagogue and by golly they even formed their own imaginary nation of Israel in 1948, accepted and ratified by the UN. They are being attacked in Israel as we speak by the Hamas, Hezobolah and Iran, who all have mistaken them as Jews and lost their minds.
The Iranians as do most Muslims have a hatred towards people that you say don't exist. I guess they need to talk to Dr. PHIL about these imaginary people?

Again, you are looking at it through your own eyes. In the eyes of God there are no Jews. We are either in Christ or we are not. After the return of Christ the Jews are dealt with again and then you can have your book called Revelation. To confuse the book of Revelation with the Christian doctrine that does not deal with Jews is your confusion if you do not watch to whom it is addressed. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel. The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

 

[ewq1938]

It's a study on its own. Personally I haven't ever interpreted that as Satan actually entered into Peter. Peter's motive for standing up for the status and dignity of Christ was completely different to Judas' motive for betraying him.​

Sure but he spoke against Christ going to the cross and dying etc. It would have been disastrous if He or anyone prevented it from happening. That wasn't possible, but the thought and words he spoke were from satan and I think that suggests a temporary possession by satan.

 

[Zao is life]

the thought and words he spoke were from satan and I think that suggests a temporary possession by satan.

Possibly but I'll leave that on my I will never know shelf, knowing that unless I ask about it in the millennium one day I'll never know, and I'd rather not ask. It's like bringing up someone else's old failings - and this was Peter. Anyway Jesus only called Judas Iscariot the son of perdition.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

We are either in Christ or we are not.

Absolutely. And spiritually there is neither Jew nor Gentile, male or female. But I am still on earth and an American male. I do know my descendants are from Italy Slovakia, Russia and Israel. It is obvious many Jews throughout their past 25 generations have mated outside their bloodline, but I can assure you that hundreds of thousands,maybe millions have not and God knows and has sustained them. Romans 11 and Rev. 7 support this.

After the return of Christ the Jews are dealt with again and then you can have your book called Revelation. To confuse the book of Revelation with the Christian doctrine that does not deal with Jews is your confusion if you do not watch to whom it is addressed

Well the Letters to the Seven Churches on Rev. 1 & 2 were to Gentile churchs. And the Great Tribulation will effect the entire planet, not just Israel ( who will be put through the fire. But you are an Amillennial.

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant

Absolutely and a remnant Jewish population will be saved during the end time tribulation period ( Romans 11).

administration of the mystery

Do you know what that mystery spoken about is.? I'm not going to tell you though.

Again, you are looking at it through your own eyes. In the eyes of God there are no Jews.

Not just mine but half the Christians AND the eyes of the 15 million Jews who believe they are Jews.

 

[Peterlag]

Absolutely. And spiritually there is neither Jew nor Gentile, male or female. But I am still on earth and an American male. I do know my descendants are from Italy Slovakia, Russia and Israel. It is obvious many Jews throughout their past 25 generations have mated outside their bloodline, but I can assure you that hundreds of thousands,maybe millions have not and God knows and has sustained them. Romans 11 and Rev. 7 support this.

Well the Letters to the Seven Churches on Rev. 1 & 2 were to Gentile churchs. And the Great Tribulation will effect the entire planet, not just Israel ( who will be put through the fire. But you are an Amillennial.

Absolutely and a remnant Jewish population will be saved during the end time tribulation period ( Romans 11).

Do you know what that mystery spoken about is.? I'm not going to tell you though.

Not just mine but half the Christians AND the eyes of the 15 million Jews who believe they are Jews.

None of the 15 million Jews who you mention who believe they are Jews wrote the Bible. I believe God put the Scriptures together and He is not writing to or for Jews in the New Testament. He is writing to those who are in Christ. The Epistles are about His Christ and He's writing what we have in Christ. And none of it deals with Jews or Gentiles. Now if you want to read about the Jews or Gentiles. Then may I suggest another book because the Epistles are not about them.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

None of the 15 million Jews who you mention who believe they are Jews wrote the Bible. I believe God put the Scriptures together and He is not writing to or for Jews in the New Testament. He is writing to those who are in Christ. The Epistles are about His Christ and He's writing what we have in Christ. And none of it deals with Jews or Gentiles. Now if you want to read about the Jews or Gentiles. Then may I suggest another book because the Epistles are not about them.

Read Romans 11. Paul makes a clear distinction between Jews and Gentiles. He identifies himself as an Israelite. A remnant 1/3 will be saved - "all Israel" as it says. God is not finished with the Jews, but obviously you are. Many of them are in the Book of Life. Have you seen who is in there? You don't know. It is best we just agree to disagree and finish here.

 

[Peterlag]

Read Romans 11. Paul makes a clear distinction between Jews and Gentiles. He identifies himself as an Israelite. A remnant 1/3 will be saved - "all Israel" as it says. God is not finished with the Jews, but obviously you are. Many of them are in the Book of Life. Have you seen who is in there? You don't know. It is best we just agree to disagree and finish here.

Paul stops writing about the Christ and to Christians in this section and pens a few chapters about Israel and he tells you that right up at the top of these chapters when he writes...

... my kinsmen according to the flesh:
... Who are Israelites;
... my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is,

What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Paul stops writing about the Christ and to Christians in this section and pens a few chapters about Israel

H E L L O Perterlag, Romans 11 was written to the Romans, the Gentilesm Christians in Rome. Paul is speaking to Gentile Christians and is talking ABOUT THE ISRAELITES throughout the whole chapter.
Wow, if you fail seeing that, then it is likely you misunderstand lots of scripture.
If I recall conversations in the past, you are a Non-Trinitarian. They misunderstand much about the nature of God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, and apparently prophetic scripture. You also seen ti discount and disregard Revelation? Too bad, there us a special blessing g for all who read it. You missed out.
It is important to understand who the writer is writing to and you failed your own test. Certain NT scriptures are written to Hebrew Christians, like Matthew and Hebrews but it doesn't mean the rest of us do not obtain knowledge, wisdom and spiritual insights from them.
But hey, you are old and set in your ways of thinking. Jesus Himself will straighten you out about who He is and then introduce you to the 144k Jewish male virgins from twelve tribes that got saved during the upcoming Great Tribulation and millions more. He won't force you to eat crow but you will bow a knee to God.

 

[Peterlag]

H E L L O Perterlag, Romans 11 was written to the Romans, the Gentilesm Christians in Rome. Paul is speaking to Gentile Christians and is talking ABOUT THE ISRAELITES throughout the whole chapter.
Wow, if you fail seeing that, then it is likely you misunderstand lots of scripture.
If I recall conversations in the past, you are a Non-Trinitarian. They misunderstand much about the nature of God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, and apparently prophetic scripture. You also seen ti discount and disregard Revelation? Too bad, there us a special blessing g for all who read it. You missed out.
It is important to understand who the writer is writing to and you failed your own test. Certain NT scriptures are written to Hebrew Christians, like Matthew and Hebrews but it doesn't mean the rest of us do not obtain knowledge, wisdom and spiritual insights from them.
But hey, you are old and set in your ways of thinking. Jesus Himself will straighten you out about who He is and then introduce you to the 144k Jewish male virgins from twelve tribes that got saved during the upcoming Great Tribulation and millions more. He won't force you to eat crow but you will bow a knee to God.

There's no such thing as a "Gentile Christian" and that's why no such language is used in the New Testament.

 

[ewq1938]

There's no such thing as a "Gentile Christian" and that's why no such language is used in the New Testament.

The NT does speak of gentiles that accepted Christ which means they became Christians. Gentiles accept Christ today as well.

Eph_3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[Peterlag]

The NT does speak of gentiles that accepted Christ which means they became Christians. Gentiles accept Christ today as well.

Eph_3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

If they accepted Christ then they are in the body of Christ and no longer referred to in the Bible as Gentiles. That's why God does not use the word Gentile Christian.

 

[ewq1938]

If they accepted Christ then they are in the body of Christ and no longer referred to in the Bible as Gentiles.

But that is false. Gentiles are called gentiles even though they were Christians.

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Act 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.
Act 13:50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.
Act 13:51 But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium.
Act 13:52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.
Act 14:1 And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.
Act 14:2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds evil affected against the brethren.

Act_15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

Even after conversion these believing gentiles are still called gentiles.